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View Full Version : My ONLY Complaint with ST



SHAGGY
09-01-2007, 12:45
I have to say that thanks to ST I now find it hard to face the owner of my LDS. My employer purchases ALL of my gear and never has a problem with the price, so therefore all of my and my partners gear is top of the line and has been purchased at my LDS. I recently began searching for gear for my 17 year old son who starts his open water dives next week, and I called up my LDS and told him I was looking for a low price but good quality starter setup for my son. He quoted me $1,100 + tax on a BC, Used Reconditioned Reg, and an analog 2 gauge setup with Octo. I then gave ST a call and I asked them if they could build me a package with the items that I had heard good reviews about on the forum and I was told no problem. In the end I ordered a Riptide Zone BCD, Tusa RS-130 Reg, Tusa Duo Air IR3 Inflator/Reg, Aeris Analog 2 gauge console, and this came all assembled with the free ST Reg bag as well. In the end I paid just a few cents over $600 after S&H & Texas sales and the 10% ST forums discount. So,...... Thanks Scuba Toys for creating another ackward moment at my LDS for me,...LOL

Black-Gorrilla
09-01-2007, 13:01
they do that to alot of people... dont feel singled out. :)

Xspect
09-01-2007, 13:15
Hmmm..

I'm feeling a little deja vu

SHAGGY
09-01-2007, 14:14
they do that to alot of people... dont feel singled out. :)



Ahhhh man,........... and I was just starting to feel that I was special and it was only me........

Zenagirl
09-01-2007, 15:54
Welcome to the wonderful world of ScubaToys! :D

dmdoss
09-02-2007, 23:39
I seem to remember hearing this before, oh it was me.

Krakenn
09-02-2007, 23:46
I have no such problem with facing the LDS infact I actively point out the USa website and advise why can't you match this or at least come within 20%.

My ONLY complaint about ST is that as an online user I would like Larry and Joe to have a Bargin Bin in addition to the Closeouts. I often hear that Larry and Joe have something gathering dust out the back etc but why not put it in the Bargin Bin for us online users to have a Squiz at?

I enjoy looking at gear online and if its not up there well i can't buy it if I was intending to. For example when i buy something online I always buy a few little nick knacks that are on the site as well.

My bit for what its worth.

Kraks

Divegirl
09-03-2007, 01:30
I talked to my LDS before I purchased my gear from Scubatoys. They were reall A-Holes about it. They really dogged the whole on line purchase for your LIFE SUPPORT. Go Figure considering the price difference for the same gear.

LIFE SUPPORT< HA> ST is my life support, I get the stuff I want, (NEED) and I get a fair price with excellent service, can't get that at my LDS, tryed that. I had the LDS change the battery on my computer before this season, that didn't work out so well, got out on the boat and there was no reading. I love Surface time dive , San Carlos Mexico, the boat captain had the correct tool, and I was smart enough to buy an extra battery at some point in time. The dive shop did stripout the cap that covers the battery compartment, yea it is still on order that was in JUNE. Scuba Toys, don't believe in backorders do they? If you need it, they will get it to you before your next dive.....

danielh03
09-03-2007, 01:52
I talked to my LDS before I purchased my gear from Scubatoys. They were reall A-Holes about it. They really dogged the whole on line purchase for your LIFE SUPPORT. Go Figure considering the price difference for the same gear.

LIFE SUPPORT< HA> ST is my life support, I get the stuff I want, (NEED) and I get a fair price with excellent service, can't get that at my LDS, tryed that. I had the LDS change the battery on my computer before this season, that didn't work out so well, got out on the boat and there was no reading. I love Surface time dive , San Carlos Mexico, the boat captain had the correct tool, and I was smart enough to buy an extra battery at some point in time. The dive shop did stripout the cap that covers the battery compartment, yea it is still on order that was in JUNE. Scuba Toys, don't believe in backorders do they? If you need it, they will get it to you before your next dive.....


I got on line and comparied prices.... 300% mark up! ST has the same gear, at a reasonalbe price. were as the BCD I almost bought from my instructors store was almost 500, i found it here for less than 300. thats just one example!

texarkandy
09-03-2007, 06:50
I have to say that thanks to ST I now find it hard to face the owner of my LDS. My employer purchases ALL of my gear and never has a problem with the price, so therefore all of my and my partners gear is top of the line and has been purchased at my LDS. I recently began searching for gear for my 17 year old son who starts his open water dives next week, and I called up my LDS and told him I was looking for a low price but good quality starter setup for my son. He quoted me $1,100 + tax on a BC, Used Reconditioned Reg, and an analog 2 gauge setup with Octo. I then gave ST a call and I asked them if they could build me a package with the items that I had heard good reviews about on the forum and I was told no problem. In the end I ordered a Riptide Zone BCD, Tusa RS-130 Reg, Tusa Duo Air IR3 Inflator/Reg, Aeris Analog 2 gauge console, and this came all assembled with the free ST Reg bag as well. In the end I paid just a few cents over $600 after S&H & Texas sales and the 10% ST forums discount. So,...... Thanks Scuba Toys for creating another ackward moment at my LDS for me,...LOL

Shag-Man,
You have an LDS in Mt Pleasant? Where ya hidin it? :)

Wherever you're LDS is, they gotta know they are in comp. with ST (?) considering they are so close.

ScubaToys "is" my LDS over in Carrolton & about as close as anybody else to me - straight shot to DFW on I-30 & I go there once/twice a month anyway (& u are closer to them than I am)

creggur
09-03-2007, 07:28
Seems to be the theme. My wife and I did 2 complete gear packages from ST and saved somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000.00. Even if you want to support your LDS they make it hard to do. I wouldn't mind paying just a little more to support the local business, but getting raped in the process is just silly. Heck it's easier just to use ST for service too, ship something out UPS and get it back a few days later..Saves me time from trudging through traffic to get to the LDS...

Zenagirl
09-03-2007, 07:50
I'll never forget when I was looking to buy a Zeagle Zena. I went to the LDS and they had one in stock which happened to be a medium. I tried it on and asked the price when it fit. Reply: $710!!! I about fell over. I then said I could get it on-line for right about $400 and they launched into the speal about warranties, blah blah blah. When I countered each thing they pulled out the big guns, the air fill argument. My parting remark while walking out was that it was a good thing I didn't dive locally. Haven't walked into the shop since.

I've spent another couple thousand at ScubaToys.....

plot
09-03-2007, 08:15
i claim i received all my non-lds purchased items from a step sister who quit diving. :D

greyzen
09-03-2007, 08:54
Yeah so I bought a light on a fluke at a LDS. A few weeks later I decide to take the AOW and find out I need another light/knife/etc.

I hit ST and find out that the EXACT SAME MODEL of light from ST is quite literally 50% the cost of the light I purchased.

I don't mind 'supporting' the little guy, but when the little guy has the sales mentality of a slum lord, I'm not buying.

mountaindiver
09-03-2007, 09:04
"My employer purchases ALL of my gear and never has a problem with the price, so therefore all of my and my partners gear is top of the line "

Who's your employer, what do you do? does he need more employees?

TexasFreddy
09-03-2007, 16:25
ST is my LDS, I stilll shop around but end up back @ ST.

kev99
09-03-2007, 16:32
I'll never forget when I was looking to buy a Zeagle Zena. I went to the LDS and they had one in stock which happened to be a medium. I tried it on and asked the price when it fit. Reply: $710!!! I about fell over. I then said I could get it on-line for right about $400 and they launched into the speal about warranties, blah blah blah. When I countered each thing they pulled out the big guns, the air fill argument. My parting remark while walking out was that it was a good thing I didn't dive locally. Haven't walked into the shop since.

I've spent another couple thousand at ScubaToys.....

Same here, LDS wanted a lot more for a Ranger than ScubaToys. Even though no one else sells the Brigade, I like it and the price is way cheaper than a Ranger from LDS. I told my LDS on the phone the other day I bought my stuff from ScubaToys; they had no response, I guess it did not bother them.

What is the "air fill argument" you are referring to?

plot
09-03-2007, 16:51
What is the "air fill argument" you are referring to?

the arguement is you have to support your LDS or you'll have nowhere to get air fills.

it's a weak arguement.

hoop
09-03-2007, 17:45
What is the "air fill argument" you are referring to?

the arguement is you have to support your LDS or you'll have nowhere to get air fills.

it's a weak arguement.

I too, was wondering what the "air fill argument" was...... OMG, I about fell out of my chair!! This is along the lines of "we're playing by my rules; if you don't want to play my game, I'm taking the ball home!". I'm all for throwing some business to my LDS, but dear Lord, I don't want to pay your electric bill for a month!

If someone doesn't want my business, fine. I'm not above going out and buying a compressor for personal and friend fills... I wouldn't ever break even on a monetary level, but to laugh at the bastard saying that I need him, would be priceless! After all, respect is a two-way street.....

kev99
09-03-2007, 18:50
Plot,

Thanks for the answer; I have never heard that before. Course, I am new to diving so there is a lot I have not heard. I am assuming the salesman or owner of the LDS would say this to someone who does not buy their gear from them? Has this ever happened to you?

Hoop,

That is quite funny; I think I would laugh at someone if they said something like that to me! Business is business; that's my motto, and my major! Seems like as a store owner or salesman you would try to get all of the business you could, whether they bought their gear from you or not. It does not make sense from a fundamental standpoint of increasing revenue to me. Whatever...

greyzen
09-03-2007, 20:13
Seems like as a store owner or salesman you would try to get all of the business you could, whether they bought their gear from you or not. It does not make sense from a fundamental standpoint of increasing revenue to me. Whatever...


It's a scare tactic used to prevent internet sales based on "gray market" sales. Gray being the "unsure of legitimacy" color.

LDS's try anything and everything they can to prevent depletion of margins, except the one clear thing that ST has done.

Offer competitive rates
Offer superior service.

People seem to think that bully tactics work, unfortunatly I believe that they DID work for years.

Scuba is a sport that has a lot of mystery, smoke and lasers, and personal opinion driving it. Your LDS was, until the invention of the internet, the fastest and easiest form of advanced diving knowledge, and extra gear. As such they got used to being the big dog, and then along comes the information age.

SHAGGY
09-03-2007, 20:48
Texarkandy,

Well,... the sad part is that my "local dive shop" is in Tyler and Its still over and hour and 15min away from me. I really like all the instructors there and even the owner but when I'm dishing out "MY" hard earned cash I just cant justify paying my local shop $1,000 compared to the $600 that I paid for my stuff at ST.

plot
09-03-2007, 20:52
my LDS is still good for training becuase it has a few good instructors. other than that... heh.

I've had zero complaints with ST... and now that this is my 250th post, guess I'll be signing off for good. it's been fun guys, later.

SHAGGY
09-03-2007, 22:00
"My employer purchases ALL of my gear and never has a problem with the price, so therefore all of my and my partners gear is top of the line "

Who's your employer, what do you do? does he need more employees?

Im a Lake Patrol Officer in North East Texas, and while I do admit that I'm very lucky that my Dept. purchases any and all gear that I can possibly want and even lets me use it on "training vacations" to Cozumel or wherever. BUT,...as the song goes,.... "Every rose has its thorn",..... Not many people would want to dive in near zero visibility on a regular basis where there is alligators and lots of snakes, and then the worst part is you have to search for drowning victims as well. BUT,.... I still think I've got the best job in the world despite all of the negatives.

Charlotte Smith
09-04-2007, 11:32
Our LDS is more worried about the paint-ballers than the divers so they NEVER have anything in stock for us so it seem s senseless to pay more for them to order it when we can just call Scuba Toys and get it cheaper...

fire diver
09-04-2007, 12:48
That could be a cool combo. Scuba and paintball. Make ninja dives, pop up, paint a few buddies on shore, and drop back down. Especially at night!

FD

danielh03
09-04-2007, 12:56
i claim i received all my non-lds purchased items from a step sister who quit diving. :D


You know I thought of a very similar argument, but I can't bring myself to use it. When my LDS/instructor asked me about a piece of gear I had bought, saying he didn't recall selling it to me, I just replied, "its because you didn't". When they launch into the loyalty speach, I just tell them that I am a loyal customer. I buy all my air fills from you, and mask, and gloves and boots... well you get the idea. Loyalty is a far cry from INSANITY

greyzen
09-04-2007, 13:45
I've heard of this "loyalty" before.


the state or quality of being loyal; faithfulness to commitments or obligations.
- Dictionary.com


So I promise I am loyal to a fault, if you commit to providing me with the best prices and oblige yourselves to the best customer service.... I will commit to giving you the money I have earned for the items I want.

Please note, I never said 'cheapest' prices, I said best.

Zenagirl
09-04-2007, 14:11
Well put Greyzen....seems like many LDS's think that loyalty only goes one direction.

divingmedic
09-05-2007, 10:30
I've heard of this "loyalty" before.


the state or quality of being loyal; faithfulness to commitments or obligations.
- Dictionary.com
So I promise I am loyal to a fault, if you commit to providing me with the best prices and oblige yourselves to the best customer service.... I will commit to giving you the money I have earned for the items I want.

Please note, I never said 'cheapest' prices, I said best.
I think a fair" price would get me to spend more in my LDS rather than on line.

kev99
09-07-2007, 21:28
Seems like as a store owner or salesman you would try to get all of the business you could, whether they bought their gear from you or not. It does not make sense from a fundamental standpoint of increasing revenue to me. Whatever...


It's a scare tactic used to prevent internet sales based on "gray market" sales. Gray being the "unsure of legitimacy" color.

LDS's try anything and everything they can to prevent depletion of margins, except the one clear thing that ST has done.

Offer competitive rates
Offer superior service.

People seem to think that bully tactics work, unfortunatly I believe that they DID work for years.

Scuba is a sport that has a lot of mystery, smoke and lasers, and personal opinion driving it. Your LDS was, until the invention of the internet, the fastest and easiest form of advanced diving knowledge, and extra gear. As such they got used to being the big dog, and then along comes the information age.

I understand what you are saying. Any business must face continous change; market conditions, consumer spending habits, economic cycles, the internet, the mass merchants, globalization. The ones who embrace it or adapt, remain flexible, able to change, etc... are the ones who will survive. I do not believe this is exclusive to the diving industry; motorcycle shops and other specialty shops I have been invloved in with various other hobbies or interests are all the same when it comes to this. I think scuba toys is great because not only do they have a brick and mortar store, and are extremely knowledgable and experienced people, but they embraced the internet and the vast amount of people they can access through this technology. Instead of stepping back and trying to use "scare tactics" as you suggested, and bashing any other store, they help people with outstanding customer service and great pricing.

scubasteven45
09-08-2007, 13:21
Hmmm... Yeah not sure. i think sometimes online stores might have a better deal but then you factor in shipping so it evens out. Good thing about ST is that being a member you get 10% off plus gift certificates for so many post posted.

rktman26
09-08-2007, 15:10
I use the money I save by buying online to dive the charters my LDS offers.
My argument is - If I pay more for it at the LDS, then I can't afford to dive as often. Either way, they still get my money, just not ALL of it.

SHAGGY
09-08-2007, 18:44
I use the money I save by buying online to dive the charters my LDS offers.
My argument is - If I pay more for it at the LDS, then I can't afford to dive as often. Either way, they still get my money, just not ALL of it.


Hey good theory,... I think I'll use that one next time.

blue37
09-08-2007, 19:38
Having the same concerns as I look to buy my first set of equipment... great local LDS but facing some budget contraints... would like to throw them a bone, but cant afford to purchase everything there... at least they are not a Zeagle dealer...

SHAGGY
09-08-2007, 20:34
Having the same concerns as I look to buy my first set of equipment... great local LDS but facing some budget contraints... would like to throw them a bone, but cant afford to purchase everything there... at least they are not a Zeagle dealer...


Well,... I know just what your talking about. My LDS wanted $1,000 for a BCD, set of analong gauges and a used Reg. In the end I purchased a NEW Riptide Zone, NEW TUSA RS-130 reg, and NEW Aeris analog 2 gauge console for $600 from ST. To me I just couldn't afford to throw my LDS dive shop a $400 bone.

plot
09-08-2007, 21:48
for some reason there's a myth that all scuba divers are rich doctors and lawyers and what not... alot of LDS's buy into the myth I guess.

Dewie, Cheatum, & Howe
09-10-2007, 11:03
for some reason there's a myth that all scuba divers are rich doctors and lawyers and what not... alot of LDS's buy into the myth I guess.


I've never heard of that myth



.

Foo2
09-10-2007, 11:22
for some reason there's a myth that all scuba divers are rich doctors and lawyers and what not... alot of LDS's buy into the myth I guess.


I've never heard of that myth


I'm not sure I like this guy!

thor
09-10-2007, 11:28
for some reason there's a myth that all scuba divers are rich doctors and lawyers and what not... alot of LDS's buy into the myth I guess.


I've never heard of that myth


I'm not sure I like this guy!


I agree Foo2
I have my doubts as well.

SHAGGY
09-10-2007, 13:19
for some reason there's a myth that all scuba divers are rich doctors and lawyers and what not... alot of LDS's buy into the myth I guess.


I've never heard of that myth



.


Hey,... I think thats the Attorney that I had in my last divorce,........:smilie39:

DZorn00
09-12-2007, 15:46
I wished I had read these forums before spending all the money I did so I would have known to order from here first...

dburg30
09-20-2007, 18:24
We have a couple of store here in Central Ohio, and I really like one of the stores. Their employees answer my questions when I have them, are fun to talk to about stuff other then diving, and generally let you just browse and handle stuff at your leisure. Well, looking at some of their pricing, when I finally do my cert, I dont know what I'll buy from them due to the prices! I used to 'stick up' for local stores playing the ole, 'The online place is just a warehouse, you cant go to a 'store'' etc etc. Welp, ST kinda shoots that idea in the arse :) So I dont know how I'll deal when the time comes to plop down real cash..

TAH 73
09-20-2007, 18:36
Luckily the LDS in his area have made it REAL easy to not have any guilt. Looking at an AI computer the other day, price quoted was about $400 more than what I could get it at ST for. Went into a tirade about USD/CAD pricing (about even these days) thanked him, walked out obviously a litte pissed.

jo8243
09-21-2007, 15:17
Buisness is buisness. The internet is here to stay. Adapt or die. Lots of LDS owners don't realize that.

clancey
09-22-2007, 12:06
For the money it seems to cost to get simple fixes at an LDS, I do not know why they would get anal about where one buys gear. I bought a watch from my LDS. Getting a battery replaced costs around $60 and the watch cost $120. I bought my sons watch at ST and I will face the battery replacement issue if it comes up. Maybe it is cheaper to mail it back to ST for service?

Bill22
09-22-2007, 13:11
Scuba Toys, don't believe in backorders do they? If you need it, they will get it to you before your next dive.....

Actually this does happen to everyone even ST. I just made an order the beginning of this week. Two items were on backorder. A snorkel and the new Dive Alert Plus. They emailed me to let me know and asked me to contact them by email or phone. I called. They said they would have the snorkel next week and the Dive Alert Plus in a couple of weeks.

They offered to split it into THREE shipments for me at NO EXTRA COST. Which I thought was really nice of them. My main concern is that I'm in Japan and I have a trip planned for next month (leaving October 23rd for the Philippines). I told them to just hold my order until the snorkel came in and then ship because I was concerned that if I waited for the Dive Alert Plus to come (10-15 work days) that I wouldn't get any of my order before I left on my trip.

Larry posted up and said he thought he had some pull with the owner of the company and he'd do everything that he could to get my Dive Alert Plus to me in time. Then the owner of the company posts up and says yes Larry does have a lot of pull and they're doing everything they can to get product shipped :-).

As far as the rest of the order..... turns out I didn't have to wait until next week after all. Had an email yesterday that it's already shipped :-) Always nice to do busines with a company that manages to do things SOONER than promised :-)

BoomerNJ
09-25-2007, 08:18
I am looking to buy my first set of gear & am sooooooo glad I read this thread first. I am still going to price out some gear with my LDS (just to give them a chance), but I can already tell from the purchase of fins, mask, etc., that I will very likely be buying from ST instead.

Thanks all!

Ash0r
10-03-2007, 21:01
for some reason there's a myth that all scuba divers are rich doctors and lawyers and what not... alot of LDS's buy into the myth I guess.


I've never heard of that myth
.

I have never heard of that myth either, but the first time I went into a dive shop and asked how much the open water class was, I had a brief moment of thinking that I may not make enough money for the sport. :deal:

So I guess I can understand how that myth could have came about.

Wndrer
10-03-2007, 22:56
I try to support my LDS whenever possible. They offer monthly trips that I go on and I did my OW and AOW classes with them. They are a great resource and I still rent most of my gear with them. I show them some of the stuff I have bought online and they are talking about stocking some of them things I have bought. Such as the HANGAIRS wetsuit dryer. A great little number that drys my wetsuit in record time!!

BobArnold8265
10-04-2007, 10:41
There seems to be a lot of LDS's out there that still feel that they are the only game in town and don't need to compete. I am very thankful to ST and all of the on-line dealers that have helped to make diving more affordable. Thanks to their help, alot more people are getting into diving which again helps bring down the costs to everyone.

Zenagirl
10-04-2007, 15:02
Frankly, I'm to the point where I don't even bother checking with the local shops and just go straight to ST to buy gear. The last time I walked into a shop to buy something was on Maui last Christmas when I needed to buy a scuba tool to fix my husband's regs so he could dive.

fog
10-12-2007, 09:18
Just a little tidbit. I was looking at some websites and came across a scuba site that caught my eye. It was the mailing address and phone number that looked very familiar. A quick check verified that it is the address of an LDS in the area. They run an online business out of the shop, but as a totaly seperate business. Wont match the online prices in the shop, wont even acknowledge that the online business exists. In the shop you get all of the standard arguments about why you should buy from LDS and not online. Strange !

dludwig
10-12-2007, 19:58
My only complaint is that S.T. has too much stuff that I can't live(or dive) w/out.:smiley2:

mitsuguy
10-12-2007, 21:46
well, I guess I split it up pretty good... I just bought a BC for my wife from ST (and got two of the Scubamax knives of course, they're so cheap), and I bought my own BC from the LDS... Prices between the two were pretty comparable for mine (a Tusa 6900 Xpert), but the LDS didn't stock the BC I bought for her... I paid tax difference between ST and LDS for mine, so, I had to give the LDS a little business, seems like they were being fair... Every LDS is different though, even mine, who seems to have reasonable prices is extremely high on the same brand regulator in comparison to ST, so, guess where I'll be going for regs...

Anne Eastwell
10-16-2007, 00:59
My LDS haven't worked out yet that we try on their gear and then order it from ST o/s. We've got a long way to go before our retail outlets realise they have to compete with online stores from around the world.

My Tusa X-pert zoom fins were about US$116 thru ST and A$316 at my LDS!!! Even with exchange rates and postage I've saved money.

davieeeee
10-16-2007, 09:50
Anne, my gf is looking for XPert Zooms as well. We were shocked that AUD$305 was the 'discounted' price lol

mitsuguy
10-16-2007, 12:04
Anne, my gf is looking for XPert Zooms as well. We were shocked that AUD$305 was the 'discounted' price lol

Thank god my LDS has a clue... Before I knew of ST, I bought those same fins for $140 locally... not as cheap as ST, but damn, not quite as much as they wanna rape you for over there...

terrillja
10-19-2007, 01:13
Yeah, when my LDS went to put the covers over my tank valves and saw the ST logo on there he he just kind of went huh, never heard of them. Then again, I have all my own gear and all that I have brought from him was my tanks, so obviously he knows I get it somewhere else. Whatever, it's the world of business.