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scuba Widow
09-02-2007, 12:47
This thread is not a debate on who you would vote for, but on the issues that mean most to all of us. Let's take this opportunity to take just about the issues for once not the candidates that are running. Let's play fair and try to be nice. I am sure that everyone of us have valid points to make and can give each other something to think and talk about.

Some examples to get us started:

1. Health care
2. Education(although that one has been pretty well covered)
3. Gay marriages
4. Gun Control
5. Stem cell research

Just to mention a few. Be creative and come up with your own ideas too.

Have fun and remember the idea of the thread and be nice!!!!

georoc01
09-02-2007, 12:55
Economy, taxes, government regulation, & energy independence are big issues for me. THere is another discussion about the government regulating diving in New Zealand because they have had 10 diver deaths in 5 years.

scuba Widow
09-02-2007, 12:59
Economy, taxes, government regulation, & energy independence are big issues for me. THere is another discussion about the government regulating diving in New Zealand because they have had 10 diver deaths in 5 years.

Government regulation in anything is a big issue for me. I think the government has there hands in to much already.

greyzen
09-02-2007, 13:12
I don't see why Gay marriage or stem cell research is even brought up. (not here, I mean politically)

What two people who aren't me do to seal their commitment rarely involves me.

Stem cell research is a moral issue. If the military was farming stem cells for military research I'd think the government had a say in the matter.

FishFood
09-02-2007, 13:15
Why must we bring up politics...? You know itll turn into a flame war :(


Anyway, the only thing that worries me is Gun Control, and even worse, government health care. I dont grasp how anyone could think socailized healthcare is a good thing?

DivingsInMyBlood
09-02-2007, 13:16
Economy, taxes, government regulation, & energy independence are big issues for me. THere is another discussion about the government regulating diving in New Zealand because they have had 10 diver deaths in 5 years.

10 doesnt seem so bad in 5 years (dont get me wrong its not good when any diver dies) its just one of those things that happens, theres alot that can go wrong. If you look around the U.S.A there are alot more diver deaths, i know that New Zealand has a fraction of the population of the U.S.A but it will happen, we can only try to decrease the amount that die never eliminate it.

My respects go out to all the families out there who have lost loved ones through diving accidents.

I think countries should do more to help people have a better life when they get older due to more people living to older ages and alot of those people having nothing to retire on. Looking after health care should be one of the number one issues as well.

scuba Widow
09-02-2007, 13:35
I don't see why Gay marriage or stem cell research is even brought up. (not here, I mean politically)

What two people who aren't me do to seal their commitment rarely involves me.

Stem cell research is a moral issue. If the military was farming stem cells for military research I'd think the government had a say in the matter.

I couldn't have said that better myself.

creggur
09-02-2007, 13:36
Health Care - Less govt. involvement - Socialized medicine is scary

Retirement - Less govt.involvement - If I could take what I pay in SS taxes every month and invest it I would certainly get a better return without really trying.

Gay Marriages - Less govt. involvement - None of my business. If two gay people are married, it doesn't make me any less married, so I don't care.

Gun Control - The only thing this controls is law abiding citizens. Criminals who don't worry about the law will still have guns...

Education - My kid will go to private school so this is not an issue for me

Stem Cell Research - I don't think it's illegal to do stem cell research, you just can't get govt. funding for it. So if it's such a promising field why aren't the big drug companies funding it?

I don't understand why people default to the position the government should be there to solve all of their problems..Want something to retire on, try saving some money. The government looking after health care as stated above is downright scary.. You ever been to a DMV?? Are those the people you want administering your health care??? Got to be kidding...

scuba Widow
09-02-2007, 13:49
I want the government to pay more attention to the education and health issues than they do to things such as gay marriages for example, because the kids of today are the leaders of tomorrow. If two gays are married more power to them for living their lives as it is meant to be free.

I personally have a problem with the immigration laws and the war...I can say with all honesty that we need stronger immigration laws, my daughter is involved with an illegal alien and he is worthless, that is not to say that all of them are that way. The only good thing to come out of that relationship has been my grandson.

I personally think we need to start pulling our troops out or establish an American base there. We are supposed to be there to support them in getting back there country, not run it for them. And I want to personally thank any one who has family and or friends serving in the military for their sacrifices during this time because it is not only the service members serving but family and friends serve as well. For the service members abroad that may have access to this forum God Bless you and Thank you, our prayers are with you.

georoc01
09-02-2007, 14:29
Retirement - Less govt.involvement - If I could take what I pay in SS taxes every month and invest it I would certainly get a better return without really trying.

I don't understand why people default to the position the government should be there to solve all of their problems..Want something to retire on, try saving some money. The government looking after health care as stated above is downright scary.. You ever been to a DMV?? Are those the people you want administering your health care??? Got to be kidding...

That is exactly what Social Security is. It was never designed as a retirement plan. Its an eldery subsidy program designed where the money paid by the current workers to support the current retirees. This is why if you invested yourself, you could do better. The problem is that a significant percentage of our country would put away $0 dollars for retirement, so a subsidy program was devised.

If I received a check every month and became dependent on it, I would definitely fight for it as those that do get one do. The problem is when we think because we paid in we are entitled to get something back. It is basically a tax to support those over 65 in this country.

I wish there was a way for me to put away that additional $8500 a year I pay in SSI taxes into my 401K and forgo social security. But the system would die really fast if we allowed that.

creggur
09-02-2007, 14:39
That is exactly what Social Security is. It was never designed as a retirement plan. Its an eldery subsidy program designed where the money paid by the current workers to support the current retirees. This is why if you invested yourself, you could do better. The problem is that a significant percentage of our country would put away $0 dollars for retirement, so a subsidy program was devised.

Actually is was part of the "New Deal" from the post depression era. This was the beginning of govt. dependance in this country. If you read it, it was eventually supposed to transform into personal owned savings accounts because even back then they realized that the system wouldn't be sustainable forever. If a private company offered a plan like social security as an investment plan they would probably be tried for fraud. Only the govt. could get away with this nonsense...


If I received a check every month and became dependent on it, I would definitely fight for it as those that do get one do. The problem is when we think because we paid in we are entitled to get something back. It is basically a tax to support those over 65 in this country.

I don't quite follow here. Because a lot of people over 65 don't need the support, but they get it anyway.. I'm not planning on needing it either, because I honestly believe it won't exist by the time I'm 65.. It's just a shame to be taxed for something your whole life to get nothing in return. I laugh when I get my little annual statement from SS telling me how much my "benefits" will be when I'm retirement age. It's a joke and every time I read it I wish there was some way I could "opt-out" of their little plan..

greyzen
09-02-2007, 14:47
I don't quite follow here. Because a lot of people over 65 don't need the support, but they get it anyway.. I'm not planning on needing it either, because I honestly believe it won't exist by the time I'm 65.. It's just a shame to be taxed for something your whole life to get nothing in return. I laugh when I get my little annual statement from SS telling me how much my "benefits" will be when I'm retirement age. It's a joke and every time I read it I wish there was some way I could "opt-out" of their little plan..

I'm the same way... I've made arrangements to not have to count on any government for when I'm no longer "working".

Hell, I'm SCARED of counting on a single government to 'help' me. I'd rather make my own decisions while I'm still able, thank you very much.

I know someone who was in a bad accident a few years ago, broke his back and can't have surgery due to his physical limitations (weight/health/etc.)
He doesn't NEED the social security, but he collects it, uses it on the stock market and to buy stuff without his wife getting mad at him.

I always tease him about wanting my residuals for our earnings, call myself a stock holder in his company.

creggur
09-02-2007, 15:21
I'm the same way... I've made arrangements to not have to count on any government for when I'm no longer "working".

Hell, I'm SCARED of counting on a single government to 'help' me. I'd rather make my own decisions while I'm still able, thank you very much.

I know someone who was in a bad accident a few years ago, broke his back and can't have surgery due to his physical limitations (weight/health/etc.)
He doesn't NEED the social security, but he collects it, uses it on the stock market and to buy stuff without his wife getting mad at him.

I always tease him about wanting my residuals for our earnings, call myself a stock holder in his company.

Well we may not agree on the wales in the other thread, but we are on the same page here!!:smiley20:

dmdoss
09-02-2007, 15:25
1. Health care " Keep the Govt. out of it."
2. Education " Get rid of the teacher's union."
3. Gay marriages " Who really cares, unless your gay."
4. Gun Control " To much of it. "
5. Stem cell research " Keep the Govt. out of it. "

More freedom, less Govt. We have more laws than we can deal with already.