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cyclical
07-12-2007, 18:58
A few questions for you guys....





So how often should you have a regulator serviced?





Do you usually service it at this interval? or do you wait longer?



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<DIV>Post your answers below http://www.scubatoys.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif</DIV>

reservecops
07-12-2007, 19:16
Most manufacturers warranties require you to have it serviced annually.

Joew
07-12-2007, 19:18
You shoud follow the manufacturer's recommended service interval. It's your most important piece of equipment, and you want to make sure it is always working properly. Also, many manufacturers require it to be eligible for their free parts program and warranty. I'm a pretty cheap guy, but reg service is one thing I'd never skimp out on.

Blindref757
07-12-2007, 19:53
I might be playing devils advocate below...and I might not. Let's debate it!!!smileys/smiley15.gif


Why tear open a perfectly good regulator? I have several friends who have regs that are 5+ years old, and have never been broken down. I'll pay for the $15 parts kit and probably get 3 years on mine before I have it serviced...and by then, I'll probably have something different. I take very good care of my equipment and store it inside the house. I trust my life on the quality far exceeding the expectations of the corporate attorneys. That "annual service" trick is just so retailers can make money.

reservecops
07-12-2007, 20:01
I might be playing devils advocate below...and I might not. Let's debate it!!!smileys/smiley15.gifWhy tear open a perfectly good regulator? I have several friends who have regs that are 5+ years old, and have never been broken down.Heck, why not drive your car 25,000 miles between oil changes? I mean, what the heck does the manufacturer know about it? All they want is your money (to do an oil change), right?smileys/smiley32.gif

Kimmie
07-12-2007, 20:06
I take mine in every year for servicing depending on how much I've used them

Illini_Fan
07-12-2007, 20:10
To completely steer off-topic, the oil change analogy might just prove blindref757's point. The quality of the reg might just justify a longer interval. Personally i'm too new, so I'll go with Oceanic's recommendation for my reg, but go get back to the oil-change; my Nissan is recommened at 3,750 miles by Nissan, my BMW is every 15,000 milesaccording to BMW -- note that both exceed the 3,000 mile that the oil change industry has drilled into our heads.

Blindref757
07-12-2007, 20:11
Does it "hurt" the car to go 5,000 miles between changes? Is it provable? Do driving condition matter? What breaks down faster, oil or rubber?

Do DIVING conditions matter? How can a "one size fits all" service policy be accurate? A divemaster in Cozumel, doing fairly deep dives in saltwater, on a daily basis has the same service interval as a weekend warrior in North Texas who only dives the quarry to 40 feet of fresh water--according to the warranty. Wouldn't time under water be a better indicator for service intervals? Why do annual service on a reg that sits in an air-conditioned closet for 350 days a year?smileys/smiley15.gif

awap
07-12-2007, 20:37
I inspect my regulators frequenly, clean them thoroughly after each salt water trip, and service my own regs when there is a problem. I'm getting 3 years or more between a full "annual service" or at least 100 dives. Mfgrs are safesiding their service recommendation while also helping the dive shops with service business. But if you do a poor job caring for myour regs, then an annual service is probably not enough.
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<DIV></DIV>I remember when recommended oil change interval was 1500 to 2000 miles. Back then, I believe regs were serviced annually. Do you think oil improved but regulator parts (seats and o-rings) did not?

cummings66
07-12-2007, 21:03
My Jeep says I can change the oil every 7,000 miles.
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<DIV>In regards to regs, I believe if you dive salt water that getting it serviced often is a good idea, in fact my LDS gives you free service on regs bought from him if you dive in salt water. I.e. when you return from the trip drop the reg off and he'll take it apart and clean it up for free, not part of the normal yearly service schedule.</DIV>
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<DIV>I think it's a good idea. For fresh water after 2 years my regs still look like new on the inside. I think it depends on how you dive and maintain the gear.</DIV>
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<DIV>I believe the maker of the reg wants to avoid liability and thus the warning about voiding warranties if you don't do the maintenance.</DIV>

reservecops
07-12-2007, 22:07
To completely steer off-topic, the oil change analogy might just prove blindref757's point. The quality of the reg might just justify a longer interval. Personally i'm too new, so I'll go with Oceanic's recommendation for my reg, but go get back to the oil-change; my Nissan is recommened at 3,750 miles by Nissan, my BMW is every 15,000 miles according to BMW -- note that both exceed the 3,000 mile that the oil change industry has drilled into our heads. I never asked if he exceeded the arbitrary "3,000 mile" interval, so I don't know why you brought that up.

I was making a comment about comparing a regulator manufacturer's recommendations for THEIR product with with the automobile manufacturer's recommendation for THEIR product.

To put it another way (just for your situation): If BMW recommends that you change your oil every 15,000 miles, would you wait until you reached 45K or so before changing the oil?

reservecops
07-12-2007, 22:08
My Jeep says I can change the oil every 7,000 miles. In that case, would you wait until you had 21,000 or more before changing the oil?

reservecops
07-12-2007, 22:12
Besides ... if your engine blows up because you waited too long to change the oil, you're not going to drown and die. Generally, you have plenty of time to fix the problem with the car - not so with your regulator.

But then again, if you NEVER want to have your regs serviced, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT! ;)

Cichlid
07-12-2007, 22:23
Besides ... if your engine blows up because you
waited too long to change the oil, you're not going to drown and die.




LOL, well there is that! smileys/smiley36.gif

cyclical
07-12-2007, 23:23
Besides ... if your engine blows up because you waited too long to change the oil, you're not going to drown and die.


I don't know... my wife would probably drown me if I did that. smileys/smiley4.gif

texdiveguy
07-13-2007, 00:59
So how often should you have a regulator serviced?





Do you usually service it at this interval? or do you wait longer?



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<div>Post your answers below http://www.scubatoys.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif</div>

*Industry would want you to think annually.

It really depends on the conditions you are diving and the amount of basic care you provide your reg's..

**I service my regs when they are needing a cleaning/tune-up.....I dive mainly fresh water...and take very good care of my regs,,,,so I can go several years in most cases.

cummings66
07-13-2007, 07:19
Do you diligently rotate your tires every 6000 miles per mfgr rec? Because if a front tire blows out at freeway speed you are probably more likely to die than if your reg starts free flowing on a dive.

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<DIV>Yes I do. On a 4 wheel drive vehicle which can chew tires up, when those tires cost you $600 a set and you must do 4 at a time, you bet I rotate them so they'll last.</DIV>

reservecops
07-13-2007, 07:25
Besides ... if your engine blows up because you waited too long to change the oil, you're not going to drown and die. Generally, you have plenty of time to fix the problem with the car - not so with your regulator.

But then again, if you NEVER want to have your regs serviced, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT! ;)Most regulators are designed to fail open. Cite me one case where a diver drowned and died because he didn't get his reg serviced annually?Why are you putting words into peoples mouths?

I never said that you would die because your regulator failed closed. If it fails open, and you're already low on air, it runs out. If you're body is already saturated with nitrogen (e.g., multiple dive day) and you're supposed to do a deco stop based on body's current state but you need to surface ASAP because your free-flowing reg ran you out of air at 110', you have just put yourself in a precarious position of increasing your chances for DCS.

Like I've already said: if you want to buy a reg and only have it serviced every 3 or 5 or 20 years, that's your decision - knock yourself out. The idea of an annual service is to be pre-emptive about potential problems. If you want to "wing it" and roll the dice with your life to save $20, that's your perogative. Silly, but still your personal choice, which I respect.

Second, I would appreciate it if you actually paid attention to what I said, instead of trying to make it appear as if I said something I didn't.

Finally, YES, I ABSOLUTELY rotate my tires - as close to the recommended intervals as possible. Rotating the tires on our three vehicles isn't just a safety issue (you should take the time to INSPECT each tire while rotating), but it helps extend the life of the tires. Same goes for oil changes (preserving the life of the engine).

Your life, your regs, your decision. For me, I'll follow the manufacturer's recommendations for the product they designed and warranty.

reservecops
07-13-2007, 07:26
Do you diligently rotate your tires every 6000 miles per mfgr rec? Because if a front tire blows out at freeway speed you are probably more likely to die than if your reg starts free flowing on a dive.
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<div>Yes I do. On a 4 wheel drive vehicle which can chew tires up, when those tires cost you $600 a set and you must do 4 at a time, you bet I rotate them so they'll last.</div> Amen to that!

cyclical
07-13-2007, 07:46
Good discussion folks...





I need to take my regulator/octo in for inspection/servicing when I return from Cozumel. It is far past due... :)

awap
07-13-2007, 09:15
Besides ... if your engine blows up because you waited too long to change the oil, you're not going to drown and die. Generally, you have plenty of time to fix the problem with the car - not so with your regulator.

But then again, if you NEVER want to have your regs serviced, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT! ;)
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<DIV>Perhaps you could tell us more about the possible regulator failure modes one could experience as a result of extending the service interval. </DIV>
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<DIV>What do you think might happen to your regulator that could reasonably be expected to result in death?</DIV>
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<DIV>Overall, do you believe that servicing a regulator results in increased or decreased reliability for the next dive?</DIV>

reservecops
07-13-2007, 10:10
<div>Perhaps you could tell us more about the possible regulator failure modes one could experience as a result of extending the service interval. </div>

The purpose of (preemptive) preventative maintenace of ANY product is for a knowledgable and experienced technician to locate any potential problems BEFORE they occur, such as seeing the condition of a part of the assembly deteriorating much more quickly than is typically expected, or to notice a part that was perhaps damaged by mishandling, unbeknownst to the owner of the product.

Then again, if you want to wait for your oil light to start flashing and the smoke to start billowing out of your exhaust BEFORE having your oil changed, that's your decision.


<div>What do you think might happen to your regulator that could reasonably be expected to result in death?</div>

I already did, three posts above. Perhaps if you had read the entire thread before treating us to your wit and wisdom, you would have noticed ... ;)


<div>Overall, do you believe that servicing a regulator results in increased or decreased reliability for the next dive?</div>

That would largely depend upon the knowledge, skill level, and actions of the technician who performed the servicing.

If a qualified tech did the work, I'd say 'increased' reliability.

If some moron did the work, I'd say 'decreased' reliablity.

Heck, even a cave man knew the answer to THIS question ... :)

awap
07-13-2007, 10:46
<DIV>Perhaps you could tell us more about the possible regulator failure modes one could experience as a result of extending the service interval. </DIV>

The purpose of (preemptive) preventative maintenace of ANY product is for a knowledgable and experienced technician to locate any potential problems BEFORE they occur, such as seeing the condition of a part of the assembly deteriorating much more quickly than is typically expected, or to notice a part that was perhaps damaged by mishandling, unbeknownst to the owner of the product.

Then again, if you want to wait for your oil light to start flashing and the smoke to start billowing out of your exhaust BEFORE having your oil changed, that's your decision.



<DIV>What do you think might happen to your regulator that could reasonably be expected to result in death?</DIV>

I already did, three posts above. Perhaps if you had read the entire thread before treating us to your wit and wisdom, you would have noticed ... ;)



<DIV>Overall, do you believe that servicing a regulator results in increased or decreased reliability for the next dive?</DIV>

That would largely depend upon the knowledge, skill level, and actions of the technician who performed the servicing.

If a qualified tech did the work, I'd say 'increased' reliability.

If some moron did the work, I'd say 'decreased' reliablity.

Heck, even a cave man knew the answer to THIS question ... :)
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<DIV>You mean the massive freeflow and you can't find your buddy story?? A massive FF does not occur due to lack of service without some and probably a lot of other warning signs (like small leaks). It isa scenario like blowing an engine just as you accelerate from a stop sign into a busy intersection. You do seem to understand cars better than regulators. So, you got any more interesting scenarios or was that the best you had? I'm still trying to understand this catastrophe that may be prevented by an annual service. They are there - think a bit more about the idea of a part that was damagedby mishandling ... by WHOM???</DIV>
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<DIV>There is no doubt that soft parts will eventually wear out if you just let them go long enough. The expected failure mode will normally be small leaks and/or reduced performance and will continue to get worse if not corrected. And that type of degradation will take years in a well cared for regulator unless some type of defect is involved. I have seen o-rings that looked more like a piece of plastic than a rubber compound and they were still sealing!</DIV>
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<DIV>Periodic service will prevent some future problems at the risk of creating other problems thru service errors. The problemsit prevents are going to occur eventually if you don't do the service but tend to be relatively minor in nature. They can detract from a dive trip and may even cause you to misssome dives or force you to find another regulator. The problems that can be caused by service are,thankfully, unlikely but may occur even with the best of techs. Defective replacement parts are not unheard of. And in the worst cases, service errors inviolving under or over torqueing do creat emergency situations that can be dangerous. </DIV>
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<DIV>Ever wonder why Atomic and Aqualung (Apeks) have a 2-year service interval (inspection only in the off years) while most others are still recommending 1-year? Do you think they have found the secret o-ring or seat material that the others don't know about? Do you think their designs aredifferentand that allows the extended service interval? </DIV>
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<DIV>If you have a good tech and annual service make you comfortable, then knock yourself out. The dive shop can surely use the income. But give other divers a break and drop the chicken little justifications (you are going to die) and recognise that theprinciple fact justifying annual service is it is the mfgrs recommendation.</DIV>
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reservecops
07-13-2007, 12:17
The only words I'm putting in your mouth are your own. You said "if your engine blows up because you waited too long to change the oil, you're not going to drown and die". It's obvious that car engine problems have nothing to do with drowning, so what were you implying would cause you to "drown and die" if not a regulator failure?This was a baseless scare tactic to make the uneducated reader fear that not getting his reg serviced annually would be increasing his risk of dying.

Go back and read. You said that I said the reg would "fail CLOSED", and I didn't say that. Get it straight, will ya? Thanks.


I asked you to demonstrate this with references or stats, and you were not (and likely will not be) able to do so.

For the second time, go back and read the post THREE ABOVE your initial response to me. I *DID* demonstrate how a reg failure (OPEN!) could cause a death. For whatever reason, you've chosen to IGNORE what I said for the SECOND time. Sorry, but I can't help it if you refuse to acknowledge it.


Note that nobody here is suggesting that one never get their regs serviced or that regs can go forever without service. The issue is whether it is necessary to stick to a rigid and arbitrary time period. There is nothing magical about 1 year. I just happen to believe in the adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". If it's broke, hell yeah you better fix it. Ignoring small problems until they blow up into big problems is foolish and risky. You might have missed my post where I pointed out that regular inspection is advised. In fact, I have a reg set at Scubatoys as we speak getting serviced. I noticed the second stages were breathing easier and occasional bubbles leaking so I checked the IP and got 175 where it should be 150. Maybe a worn HP seat, I don't really know, but it's beyond my current limits and I'm not gonna ignore a warning sign so off it went. I am NOT anti-service and strongly FOR frequent inspection, I just believe in service based on condition over time interval. For the diver who can do nothing for himself, not even look at a hose for small cracks, then yeah they should get it serviced annually.

And, as I've said OVER and OVER and OVER in this very thread: every diver can choose to have his/her gear serviced as little or as often as s/he wants, but I'll choose to FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURER'S RECOMMENDED SERVICE PLAN.

cyclical
07-13-2007, 13:13
Interesting read from both sides of the discussion. Anyone have any stories of personal experience (something that has happened to them?)

ScubaToys Larry
07-14-2007, 17:16
See... This is why I wanted to start a board. So divers could come together - be friends and communicate! http://www.scubatoys.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif

ScubaToys Larry
07-14-2007, 20:23
Ok... from this point the constructive nature of the thread kinda' fell apart... so we are going to call this one done... Ok?