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bigman241
01-26-2010, 13:58
Ok the steel 130 is 410.00 and has a -11 filled and -2 empty. SO as far as buoyancy goes why go steel over alum or do I look at the fill rate on that.
The al80s are 149.00 so I could buy 3 al80s for the price of one steel. Well alittle more then the steel.

I know the weight thing but is it worth the money. My thing is the air but I see no reason to come up switch out and go back down for three for the price of one.

jgurley
01-26-2010, 14:06
The steel tanks allow you to carry less weight because they are always negative. Plus they weigh less than the aluminum, if you compare the same size.

CompuDude
01-26-2010, 14:26
Worth the money is up to you.

An HP130 holds 130cf of gas. An Al.80 holds 77.4cf of gas... 52.6 cf less. (assuming you get a full fill on your HP tank)

That's nearly another dive's worth of gas... about about 2/3 more bottom time on any given dive (assuming within NDLs of course).

If you end up being, as you fear, a big gas hog, that's the difference between a 30 minute dive and a 50 minute dive. Chances are you're still going to end up waiting an hour between dives anyway. So at three dives per day, you end up with three 30 minute dives (1.5 hrs of BT per day) or three 50 minute dives (2.5 hrs of BT per day).

You'll also carry about 5# less lead on your belt. The tank on your back is a lot heavier, but that's only an issue if you're walking to the dive site... boat dives, you're only taking a few steps from the bench to the gate, so it's not as important. On a big guy like you, the difference in the water won't be severe.

Whether that's worth the extra money to YOU is another issue entirely... and something only you can answer.

bubbletrubble
01-26-2010, 14:48
Compare the buoyancy when empty specs among tanks.

Using your example, the HP130 is -2 lbs. buoyant when empty.
A typical Catalina AL80 is +4 lbs. buoyant when empty.
This means that, all other things being equal on your rig, if you switched from the AL80 to the HP130 tank, you should be able to carry 6 lbs. less lead in your weight pockets and still be properly weighted. Furthermore, weight on your rig should be more optimally distributed -- effectively you have "moved" weight from weight pockets to the tank which is balanced more or less directly over your lungs. This can make it easier to trim out horizontally.

Your original post compares the cost of one HP130 to three AL80s. Why are you considering getting a HP130? That's a very large tank. Do you know if you're going to need 130 cubic feet when you dive? What kind of dives will you be doing? Remember that you should be buying tanks for the kind of local diving that you'll be doing. Personally, I prefer the HP100 tanks for cold water diving for the following reasons:
HP100s carry more gas than the AL80s. Having more than 100 cuft. of gas on a dive is generally not that useful for the kind of diving that I do locally.
The volume/size of the HP100 is comparable to that of an AL80.
Topside, if I add up the total weight of my rig with a full tank and the appropriate amount of lead, I'm schlepping slightly less weight to and from the water when I use a HP100 vs. an AL80.
When the HP100s are near empty at the end of a dive, they don't become "butt" light like AL80s do.
Buying a tank is definitely something that you should do after you are OW certified. It helps to know your gas consumption rate and have a better understanding of gas management principles (even though you probably won't be learning that in Basic OW). Although most newbie divers have notoriously poor air consumption, it's possible that you might be one of the lucky few blessed with good air consumption. Also, a huge factor to consider when buying a tank is what size tank your dive buddy has, i.e., if you and your buddy have comparable SAC rates and he has an AL80, then it will be difficult to fully utilize that massive HP130 you splurged on.

The first scuba tank that I ever bought was an AL80. In the end, what sold me on it was the lower initial investment. If you stay with the sport, over the years you'll find yourself picking up used tanks. A sturdy, used steel tank in good condition (no internal corrosion) can be a great value. Good luck with everything...

j1j2j38
01-26-2010, 15:00
Again though, I would have to strongly suggest not buying tanks before you get certified. Especially if you're flying somewhere to get certified, are you going to be diving locally?

There are advantages to owning, but they aren't gigantic and are greater the more advanced you are. I think looking at what tanks you're going to buy before you've gotten certified is kind of ridiculous, personally.

When you're getting certified you'll just be using whatever tanks they have anyway.

j1j2j38
01-26-2010, 15:02
Compare the buoyancy when empty specs among tanks.

Using your example, the HP130 is -2 lbs. buoyant when empty.
A typical Catalina AL80 is +4 lbs. buoyant when empty.
This means that, all other things being equal on your rig, if you switched from the AL80 to the HP130 tank, you should be able to carry 6 lbs. less lead in your weight pockets and still be properly weighted. Furthermore, weight on your rig should be more optimally distributed -- effectively you have "moved" weight from weight pockets to the tank which is balanced more or less directly over your lungs. This can make it easier to trim out horizontally.

Your original post compares the cost of one HP130 to three AL80s. Why are you considering getting a HP130? That's a very large tank. Do you know if you're going to need 130 cubic feet when you dive? What kind of dives will you be doing? Remember that you should be buying tanks for the kind of local diving that you'll be doing. Personally, I prefer the HP100 tanks for cold water diving for the following reasons:

HP100s carry more gas than the AL80s. Having more than 100 cuft. of gas on a dive is generally not that useful for the kind of diving that I do locally.
The volume/size of the HP100 is comparable to that of an AL80.
Topside, if I add up the total weight of my rig with a full tank and the appropriate amount of lead, I'm schlepping slightly less weight to and from the water when I use a HP100 vs. an AL80.
When the HP100s are near empty at the end of a dive, they don't become "butt" light like AL80s do.Buying a tank is definitely something that you should do after you are OW certified. It helps to know your gas consumption rate and have a better understanding of gas management principles (even though you probably won't be learning that in Basic OW). Although most newbie divers have notoriously poor air consumption, it's possible that you might be one of the lucky few blessed with good air consumption. Also, a huge factor to consider when buying a tank is what size tank your dive buddy has, i.e., if you and your buddy have comparable SAC rates and he has an AL80, then it will be difficult to fully utilize that massive HP130 you splurged on.

The first scuba tank that I ever bought was an AL80. In the end, what sold me on it was the lower initial investment. If you stay with the sport, over the years you'll find yourself picking up used tanks. A sturdy, used steel tank in good condition (no internal corrosion) can be a great value. Good luck with everything...

agreed all around

Jack Hammer
01-26-2010, 15:27
Bigman - As stated, it's not usually a great idea for most to buy gear before they get certified. A few reasons for this are:

Some people find they only/mostly like diving in certain conditions (warm, clear water, reefs, boats, shore, etc)
some people find diving isn't for them
It takes time to find out what kind of diving you like/don't like
Gear can be expensive
The resale value on dive gear is relatively low
I'm sure their are plenty of other reasons and I've only listed a few. It's good you're researching gear and equipment and even better you are asking questions. The thing is until you get in the water and dive you really will have little idea of what you like and don't like and what works/doesn't work for you.

In the beginning I think it's best to rent most gear then make informed decisions on what to buy. An example is I have a 7mm farmer john wetsuit I bought when I first started diving Lake Michigan. It was fine for summer diving but no where near warm enough for me for the 39* water temps I dive in early or late season (or at some depths all season). I ended up buying a drysuit and the hyperstretch 7mm was a $450 waste of money.

Tanks are usually bought as a convenience item, for most people. I like having mine because I can keep them filled and be ready to dive on short notice and not have to worry about returning them in a narrow window. I'm not saving any real money owning them vs renting as the rental fee is only $2 more than the fill fee (not including the yearly vis, O2 cleaning, and hydro costs).

Bottom line is you need to find out what works for you and what you like. The only way to do that is to dive.

Vlane
01-26-2010, 17:15
My first piece of advice is to wait and see how your air consumption is during your Cozumel dives. Chances are it'll suck at first but you can kind of get a ballpark idea of what it is on those dives. If you're having to cut the dive way ahead of everyone else then you might consider the steel but I would recommend the AL80s. I would rather have two small/medium dives in two locations over one big dive in one location, so that's one thing to consider with the AL80s. Another thing is to wait and see the direction you go in diving. Make sure diving is for you and that you will be able to do it when you get back. I can't tell you how many times I've looked on Craigslist and seen scuba gear for sale that was used ten times.

comet24
01-26-2010, 17:24
Why are you buying a tank anyway. It's usually the last thing most divers buy. I had been diving for years before I picked up my first tank and it was given to me. Go dive with an Al tank and see how it works.

bigman241
01-26-2010, 21:01
The reasoning for buying the tank be it now or after cert is the dive shops are just to far away for rentals. If I rent it will take two 60 mile trips be dive one to rent one to return at 14 mpg it would not take long to pay for the tank. If I buy the tank i would make one trip per fill which would be covered by the fact I would go by a lds about once a week

As for diving I plan to use it for local dives mainly quarries and a few local lakes. I also will us it for trips to ky where there are few lds where I would be diving. As for air consumption I am 6'5 470 so I doubt I will have a good air consumption. mostly just rec dives to 60 feet most places around here are well within that range. I am and have been leaning toward the steel. I understand there is that chance I may hate it. But with 3k in gear before the coz trip. Just how bad will eatting the hurt. I see no chance of me not diving. Better chance the saints win the super bowl or obama switches to a republican

j1j2j38
01-26-2010, 22:09
14mpg? I would suggest spending your money on a new car with better mileage.

Really, WAIT on buying the tank. Or, I mean, you can do what you want, but everyone who responded suggested not buying it now. It's not even necessarily about how much you'll like diving if you're certain you will. Tanks are very different, and you don't even know what they feel like because you've never gone diving. Don't you think it would be a better idea to dive with some different tanks to see what you like before buying one and realizing it's not what you want?

Are you really going to be diving frequently enough that the drive is that big a deal? And are there no closer shops to where you'll be diving, or ones that are on the way so you can pick up and drop off going to and from? If you're only talking about gas it will take like 35 trips to equal out the gas. I think I do a fair amount of local diving for someone certified in the last 7 months, and I've done like 20 dives (but only like 10 trips). I have to drive like 1-3 hours to dive. So that's just over one trip a month. So at my current pace it would take several years to pay off the cost of a steel tank in saved gas (even if I spent as much on gas driving to pick up and drop off tanks as you say you will, which I do not).

I think it's definitely a mistake to buy one now because what if you figure out a few weeks from now a different size is better? Renting a few times first is not going to hurt you that much. You're talking about a few trips to the store. Just relax.

j1j2j38
01-26-2010, 22:12
Or I guess you said that maybe you'll wait till after the cert. You're planning to go by the LDS once a week? For anything in particular?

bigman241
01-26-2010, 22:38
I do agree to relax. The nearest shop is 50 miles. It is about 10 miles out of my way to a cabin we own. If I drive there get a fill on my tank(s) do a dive or two there and come back stop fill up on the way I would end up with less then half on each trip for air fills. Figure two tanks by the summer with two dives at the cabin two trips at home in a local pit that 4 tanks a week. On a single trip when I am going there any way ]. Ofcourse thats figureing two tanks each way. he wants 12 for a tank rental and 6 for a fill. Nitrox is 18 and I can not remember the fill price. SO saving 6 bucks a fill. The way I figure it it would take me about 4 months of 4 dives a week to pay for one tanks. That's not figuring trips to Ky and to the IL dive sites my lds goes to. The cost of filling and paying for the tank really is not want I am after. If I get the want to do a local dive I want to go dive not spend a day driving to the lds to rent a tank then drive back to return it. As for will I want a steel 130 or not I can see that. I doubt a guy my size will have a issue with the big tank. By the time we leave cozumel we should be around 20 dive. We are planning 2 dives from the shore for three days plus three days of tank dives. Then the 4 cert dives I guess that comes to 13 or 16 depending if you count the 2 tank dives as two dives or one.
14mpg? I would suggest spending your money on a new car with better mileage.

Really, WAIT on buying the tank. Or, I mean, you can do what you want, but everyone who responded suggested not buying it now. It's not even necessarily about how much you'll like diving if you're certain you will. Tanks are very different, and you don't even know what they feel like because you've never gone diving. Don't you think it would be a better idea to dive with some different tanks to see what you like before buying one and realizing it's not what you want?

Are you really going to be diving frequently enough that the drive is that big a deal? And are there no closer shops to where you'll be diving, or ones that are on the way so you can pick up and drop off going to and from? If you're only talking about gas it will take like 35 trips to equal out the gas. I think I do a fair amount of local diving for someone certified in the last 7 months, and I've done like 20 dives (but only like 10 trips). I have to drive like 1-3 hours to dive. So that's just over one trip a month. So at my current pace it would take several years to pay off the cost of a steel tank in saved gas (even if I spent as much on gas driving to pick up and drop off tanks as you say you will, which I do not).

I think it's definitely a mistake to buy one now because what if you figure out a few weeks from now a different size is better? Renting a few times first is not going to hurt you that much. You're talking about a few trips to the store. Just relax.

j1j2j38
01-26-2010, 23:01
4 dives a week is a lot, but i guess it sounds like you're a student and not working during the summer.

It's unlikely you'll need nitrox if you're doing 2 dives < 60ft in a day.

j1j2j38
01-26-2010, 23:05
and just for a frame of reference, i don't own tanks, and 60 miles is the closest dive site with most either 100 miles (RI) or 170 miles (Gloucester). I still do those dives as day trips, so 50 miles doesn't seem bad to me at all.

Scuba Pete
01-27-2010, 07:22
I used to be in that situation. The closest compressor was around 45-50 mins away. Our group had plenty of tanks. Plus most of the dive spots had compressors anyway. We found that the only reason to go to the dive shop was to get gear or on the occasion that we were doing a pool dive and needed to get a fill. Or our club was doing a discover scuba and needed more tanks. 20+ tanks in the back of a explorer was not a fun drive for an hour. Now that i live in a much larger city and i have my choice of 20-30 dive shops in close proximity i still find myself not really needing to go to it unless it is to get a fill or a visual done. I suppose that this coming summer i will be there alot more as we are planning to dive on the lake a lot more. Anyway buying tanks IMHO is worth it if you live far away from a shop. The more you have the less you have to drive back and forth the the shop.

bigman241
01-27-2010, 08:47
That the thing here. Except most of the places I will be diving do not have a compressor or anyone there to fill. Their out in the middle of no where. Sure if I went to ky for the weekend I would pass a few shops but they will not be close enough to the lakes down there. I guess it is more for convenience then anything.
I used to be in that situation. The closest compressor was around 45-50 mins away. Our group had plenty of tanks. Plus most of the dive spots had compressors anyway. We found that the only reason to go to the dive shop was to get gear or on the occasion that we were doing a pool dive and needed to get a fill. Or our club was doing a discover scuba and needed more tanks. 20+ tanks in the back of a explorer was not a fun drive for an hour. Now that i live in a much larger city and i have my choice of 20-30 dive shops in close proximity i still find myself not really needing to go to it unless it is to get a fill or a visual done. I suppose that this coming summer i will be there alot more as we are planning to dive on the lake a lot more. Anyway buying tanks IMHO is worth it if you live far away from a shop. The more you have the less you have to drive back and forth the the shop.

Jack Hammer
01-27-2010, 08:49
...We are planning 2 dives from the shore for three days plus three days of tank dives. Then the 4 cert dives I guess that comes to 13 or 16 depending if you count the 2 tank dives as two dives or one.
A 2 tank dives means you'll be making two separate dives and need one tank for each. 3 tank dive means three tanks total needed for three dives, etc.:smiley20:

j1j2j38
01-27-2010, 08:58
...We are planning 2 dives from the shore for three days plus three days of tank dives. Then the 4 cert dives I guess that comes to 13 or 16 depending if you count the 2 tank dives as two dives or one.
A 2 tank dives means you'll be making two separate dives and need one tank for each. 3 tank dive means three tanks total needed for three dives, etc.:smiley20:


like he said, so you should have 16 dives if you do them all.

bigman241
01-27-2010, 09:19
Thats what I figured. Gets me on the way for the master scuba diver coarse.


...We are planning 2 dives from the shore for three days plus three days of tank dives. Then the 4 cert dives I guess that comes to 13 or 16 depending if you count the 2 tank dives as two dives or one.
A 2 tank dives means you'll be making two separate dives and need one tank for each. 3 tank dive means three tanks total needed for three dives, etc.:smiley20:


like he said, so you should have 16 dives if you do them all.

j1j2j38
01-27-2010, 09:22
yes, but i dont think there's any reason to take that particular course. If you want to continue with PADI longterm then DM is a better way to go because you can actually somewhat use it for something. Master scuba diver doesn't open any additional doors

Jack Hammer
01-27-2010, 16:39
yes, but i dont think there's any reason to take that particular course. If you want to continue with PADI longterm then DM is a better way to go because you can actually somewhat use it for something. Master scuba diver doesn't open any additional doors
This is how I see it. Show up at a "PADI 5 star resort" and when asked for a C-card give them a TDI/GUE/NACD etc technical C-card (backed by hundreds of logged dives) and get a blank look along the lines of "what is this" and "why would anyone want to do that type of diving?" followed by them keeping an eye on you.
vs
Showing them a PADI "Master scuba diver" cert card (backed by 50 or 60 dives, mostly done in a class) and hearing "Oh you're a Master Scuba Diver" followed by oohs and aahs and getting left alone to do as you please.

No offense meant to PADI divers (I've got a few certs there myself). IME, there is something about the PADI culture promoted by PADI only dive shops that seems to create this attitude.

comet24
01-27-2010, 16:58
yes, but i dont think there's any reason to take that particular course. If you want to continue with PADI longterm then DM is a better way to go because you can actually somewhat use it for something. Master scuba diver doesn't open any additional doors
This is how I see it. Show up at a "PADI 5 star resort" and when asked for a C-card give them a TDI/GUE/NACD etc technical C-card (backed by hundreds of logged dives) and get a blank look along the lines of "what is this" and "why would anyone want to do that type of diving?" followed by them keeping an eye on you.
vs
Showing them a PADI "Master scuba diver" cert card (backed by 50 or 60 dives, mostly done in a class) and hearing "Oh you're a Master Scuba Diver" followed by oohs and aahs and getting left alone to do as you please.

No offense meant to PADI divers (I've got a few certs there myself). IME, there is something about the PADI culture promoted by PADI only dive shops that seems to create this attitude.

I like to show my OW card from college. It's one of the SSI ones where you had to go to the shop after passing and get a picture taken. Then they laminated your picture inside in the card. Actually has held up better then my newer cards.

bigman241
01-27-2010, 17:04
why not both a dive master card from tdi or who ever and a padi master scuba diver card. THen will they get down and kiss your feet. :smiley36::smiley36:

yes, but i dont think there's any reason to take that particular course. If you want to continue with PADI longterm then DM is a better way to go because you can actually somewhat use it for something. Master scuba diver doesn't open any additional doors
This is how I see it. Show up at a "PADI 5 star resort" and when asked for a C-card give them a TDI/GUE/NACD etc technical C-card (backed by hundreds of logged dives) and get a blank look along the lines of "what is this" and "why would anyone want to do that type of diving?" followed by them keeping an eye on you.
vs
Showing them a PADI "Master scuba diver" cert card (backed by 50 or 60 dives, mostly done in a class) and hearing "Oh you're a Master Scuba Diver" followed by oohs and aahs and getting left alone to do as you please.

No offense meant to PADI divers (I've got a few certs there myself). IME, there is something about the PADI culture promoted by PADI only dive shops that seems to create this attitude.

Smashee
01-27-2010, 17:10
This is how I see it. Show up at a "PADI 5 star resort" and when asked for a C-card give them a TDI/GUE/NACD etc technical C-card (backed by hundreds of logged dives) and get a blank look along the lines of "what is this" and "why would anyone want to do that type of diving?" followed by them keeping an eye on you.

Show 'em a BSAC "Advanced Diver" card and then stand back & watch the confusion. :smilie39:

bubbletrubble
01-27-2010, 17:30
--posted accidentally--

gNats
01-27-2010, 17:50
The reasoning for buying the tank be it now or after cert is the dive shops are just to far away for rentals. If I rent it will take two 60 mile trips be dive one to rent one to return at 14 mpg it would not take long to pay for the tank. If I buy the tank i would make one trip per fill which would be covered by the fact I would go by a lds about once a week

As for diving I plan to use it for local dives mainly quarries and a few local lakes. I also will us it for trips to ky where there are few lds where I would be diving. As for air consumption I am 6'5 470 so I doubt I will have a good air consumption. mostly just rec dives to 60 feet most places around here are well within that range. I am and have been leaning toward the steel. I understand there is that chance I may hate it. But with 3k in gear before the coz trip. Just how bad will eatting the hurt. I see no chance of me not diving. Better chance the saints win the super bowl or obama switches to a republican

What quarries and local dive areas are you planning on going to? Almost all the places I know of, that are formally run as a scuba diving facility, have an onsite LDS with tank fills and rentals.

I would be very interested in hearing where you are diving from Sullivan. I know Mermet is not far. There are also a few scuba diving areas just southeast of Indy.

bigman241
01-27-2010, 19:45
There are a few local quarrys I planned on but from what I am hearing most of them are no go for diving. Going to check with the dnr. Not sure if merem check spelling on that though but I am not sure if there open to diving and I would not drop a toe in that lake. You spend a night fishing and you can not breath. Plus there have bee some reports of them dumbing bad water out of the powerplant. Cagells mill lake is where my cabin is but it is about as clear as ditch water. My hope is to hit the lake I grew up on north of indy. Guess we will see hopefully the dnr gives me the ok on the strip pit.

The reasoning for buying the tank be it now or after cert is the dive shops are just to far away for rentals. If I rent it will take two 60 mile trips be dive one to rent one to return at 14 mpg it would not take long to pay for the tank. If I buy the tank i would make one trip per fill which would be covered by the fact I would go by a lds about once a week

As for diving I plan to use it for local dives mainly quarries and a few local lakes. I also will us it for trips to ky where there are few lds where I would be diving. As for air consumption I am 6'5 470 so I doubt I will have a good air consumption. mostly just rec dives to 60 feet most places around here are well within that range. I am and have been leaning toward the steel. I understand there is that chance I may hate it. But with 3k in gear before the coz trip. Just how bad will eatting the hurt. I see no chance of me not diving. Better chance the saints win the super bowl or obama switches to a republican

What quarries and local dive areas are you planning on going to? Almost all the places I know of, that are formally run as a scuba diving facility, have an onsite LDS with tank fills and rentals.

I would be very interested in hearing where you are diving from Sullivan. I know Mermet is not far. There are also a few scuba diving areas just southeast of Indy.

in_cavediver
01-27-2010, 20:21
There are a few local quarrys I planned on but from what I am hearing most of them are no go for diving. Going to check with the dnr. Not sure if merem check spelling on that though but I am not sure if there open to diving and I would not drop a toe in that lake. You spend a night fishing and you can not breath. Plus there have bee some reports of them dumbing bad water out of the powerplant. Cagells mill lake is where my cabin is but it is about as clear as ditch water. My hope is to hit the lake I grew up on north of indy. Guess we will see hopefully the dnr gives me the ok on the strip pit.

The reasoning for buying the tank be it now or after cert is the dive shops are just to far away for rentals. If I rent it will take two 60 mile trips be dive one to rent one to return at 14 mpg it would not take long to pay for the tank. If I buy the tank i would make one trip per fill which would be covered by the fact I would go by a lds about once a week

As for diving I plan to use it for local dives mainly quarries and a few local lakes. I also will us it for trips to ky where there are few lds where I would be diving. As for air consumption I am 6'5 470 so I doubt I will have a good air consumption. mostly just rec dives to 60 feet most places around here are well within that range. I am and have been leaning toward the steel. I understand there is that chance I may hate it. But with 3k in gear before the coz trip. Just how bad will eatting the hurt. I see no chance of me not diving. Better chance the saints win the super bowl or obama switches to a republican

What quarries and local dive areas are you planning on going to? Almost all the places I know of, that are formally run as a scuba diving facility, have an onsite LDS with tank fills and rentals.

I would be very interested in hearing where you are diving from Sullivan. I know Mermet is not far. There are also a few scuba diving areas just southeast of Indy.

Being North of Indy - I too am curious where you are looking to dive.

UCFKnightDiver
01-27-2010, 20:31
yes, but i dont think there's any reason to take that particular course. If you want to continue with PADI longterm then DM is a better way to go because you can actually somewhat use it for something. Master scuba diver doesn't open any additional doors
This is how I see it. Show up at a "PADI 5 star resort" and when asked for a C-card give them a TDI/GUE/NACD etc technical C-card (backed by hundreds of logged dives) and get a blank look along the lines of "what is this" and "why would anyone want to do that type of diving?" followed by them keeping an eye on you.
vs
Showing them a PADI "Master scuba diver" cert card (backed by 50 or 60 dives, mostly done in a class) and hearing "Oh you're a Master Scuba Diver" followed by oohs and aahs and getting left alone to do as you please.

No offense meant to PADI divers (I've got a few certs there myself). IME, there is something about the PADI culture promoted by PADI only dive shops that seems to create this attitude.

I agree kinda dumb, but to be honest I will only show an ow or an aow card. None of my higher cards come out unless needed

in_cavediver
01-27-2010, 20:32
yes, but i dont think there's any reason to take that particular course. If you want to continue with PADI longterm then DM is a better way to go because you can actually somewhat use it for something. Master scuba diver doesn't open any additional doors
This is how I see it. Show up at a "PADI 5 star resort" and when asked for a C-card give them a TDI/GUE/NACD etc technical C-card (backed by hundreds of logged dives) and get a blank look along the lines of "what is this" and "why would anyone want to do that type of diving?" followed by them keeping an eye on you.
vs
Showing them a PADI "Master scuba diver" cert card (backed by 50 or 60 dives, mostly done in a class) and hearing "Oh you're a Master Scuba Diver" followed by oohs and aahs and getting left alone to do as you please.

No offense meant to PADI divers (I've got a few certs there myself). IME, there is something about the PADI culture promoted by PADI only dive shops that seems to create this attitude.

I agree kinda dumb, but to be honest I will only show an ow or an aow card. None of my higher cards come out unless needed

Its more fun to show up with an OW card and explain to the crew that you're diving doubles.

bigman241
01-28-2010, 06:44
mississinawa (check spelling). Though I am sure it is zero vis. More of a thing I want to do. I grew up by there fishing boating so on. When I was a kid and we talked about diving I always said I would dive that lake some day. THe strip pits down here are as clear and some ocean spots. Plus I do know a guy who owns on of the pits who would gladly let me dive. He has a pontoon boat he leaves on there for parting last year some drunk idiot came up with the idea of seeing how big of a splash the 60 pound anchor would make and it was not tired of and sank 20 feet deep right off his dock. I am sure I could talk him into letting me go down.
I want to local dive more for the experience and getting accustom to diving and my gear. The is not much to see is a small strip pit. Though the more I think about it the more I want to wait on the tank.

There are a few local quarrys I planned on but from what I am hearing most of them are no go for diving. Going to check with the dnr. Not sure if merem check spelling on that though but I am not sure if there open to diving and I would not drop a toe in that lake. You spend a night fishing and you can not breath. Plus there have bee some reports of them dumbing bad water out of the powerplant. Cagells mill lake is where my cabin is but it is about as clear as ditch water. My hope is to hit the lake I grew up on north of indy. Guess we will see hopefully the dnr gives me the ok on the strip pit.

The reasoning for buying the tank be it now or after cert is the dive shops are just to far away for rentals. If I rent it will take two 60 mile trips be dive one to rent one to return at 14 mpg it would not take long to pay for the tank. If I buy the tank i would make one trip per fill which would be covered by the fact I would go by a lds about once a week

As for diving I plan to use it for local dives mainly quarries and a few local lakes. I also will us it for trips to ky where there are few lds where I would be diving. As for air consumption I am 6'5 470 so I doubt I will have a good air consumption. mostly just rec dives to 60 feet most places around here are well within that range. I am and have been leaning toward the steel. I understand there is that chance I may hate it. But with 3k in gear before the coz trip. Just how bad will eatting the hurt. I see no chance of me not diving. Better chance the saints win the super bowl or obama switches to a republican

What quarries and local dive areas are you planning on going to? Almost all the places I know of, that are formally run as a scuba diving facility, have an onsite LDS with tank fills and rentals.

I would be very interested in hearing where you are diving from Sullivan. I know Mermet is not far. There are also a few scuba diving areas just southeast of Indy.

Being North of Indy - I too am curious where you are looking to dive.

in_cavediver
01-28-2010, 10:47
mississinawa (check spelling). Though I am sure it is zero vis. More of a thing I want to do. I grew up by there fishing boating so on. When I was a kid and we talked about diving I always said I would dive that lake some day. THe strip pits down here are as clear and some ocean spots. Plus I do know a guy who owns on of the pits who would gladly let me dive. He has a pontoon boat he leaves on there for parting last year some drunk idiot came up with the idea of seeing how big of a splash the 60 pound anchor would make and it was not tired of and sank 20 feet deep right off his dock. I am sure I could talk him into letting me go down.
I want to local dive more for the experience and getting accustom to diving and my gear. The is not much to see is a small strip pit. Though the more I think about it the more I want to wait on the tank.

All of the resivours are as clear as mud - oh wait - they are mud. I grew up in Marion which is right next to Missessinwa and Salimonie and both aren't what I'd consider divable. If I recall from boating there, you have around 6-10 inches of visibility.

France Park (quarry) is the closest now.

Mike

bigman241
01-28-2010, 13:56
Clear as mud is how I would put it. I have always been a fan of mississinawa something about salamony. We stopped going when I was kid because they drained it. Then the last year we went to salamony they had some blue green alge and I endup tossing 40 pounds of cat fish back.


mississinawa (check spelling). Though I am sure it is zero vis. More of a thing I want to do. I grew up by there fishing boating so on. When I was a kid and we talked about diving I always said I would dive that lake some day. THe strip pits down here are as clear and some ocean spots. Plus I do know a guy who owns on of the pits who would gladly let me dive. He has a pontoon boat he leaves on there for parting last year some drunk idiot came up with the idea of seeing how big of a splash the 60 pound anchor would make and it was not tired of and sank 20 feet deep right off his dock. I am sure I could talk him into letting me go down.
I want to local dive more for the experience and getting accustom to diving and my gear. The is not much to see is a small strip pit. Though the more I think about it the more I want to wait on the tank.

All of the resivours are as clear as mud - oh wait - they are mud. I grew up in Marion which is right next to Missessinwa and Salimonie and both aren't what I'd consider divable. If I recall from boating there, you have around 6-10 inches of visibility.

France Park (quarry) is the closest now.

Mike

bottomdweller
01-29-2010, 19:34
[ I see no chance of me not diving. Better chance the saints win the super bowl or obama switches to a republican[/quote].

I don't care who wins the superbowl, I'm a poor Raiders fan:smiley19:
But I think the Saints have a good shot. I really just hope it's a good game.

bigman241
01-29-2010, 19:39
lol I hope to we are going to have a party homemade bbq baby backs, homemade hot and bbq wings some beer maybe some more beer and dang I forgot who's playing :smiley36:
[ I see no chance of me not diving. Better chance the saints win the super bowl or obama switches to a republican.

I don't care who wins the superbowl, I'm a poor Raiders fan:smiley19:
But I think the Saints have a good shot. I really just hope it's a good game.[/quote]

in_cavediver
01-30-2010, 08:30
[ I see no chance of me not diving. Better chance the saints win the super bowl or obama switches to a republican

I don't care who wins the superbowl, I'm a poor Raiders fan:smiley19:
But I think the Saints have a good shot. I really just hope it's a good game.

Being in Lafayette - I win either way. Its either the Colts of Indianapolis or Drew Brees of Purdue fame. Good year!

bigman241
01-30-2010, 09:32
CHEATER. My sister's boyfriend keeps calling me a bandwagon fan. I have always liked the colts I have just not cared fro the great white hope manning. Though he is warming on me. I think a win would do good for Indianapolis

[ I see no chance of me not diving. Better chance the saints win the super bowl or obama switches to a republican.

I don't care who wins the superbowl, I'm a poor Raiders fan:smiley19:
But I think the Saints have a good shot. I really just hope it's a good game.

Being in Lafayette - I win either way. Its either the Colts of Indianapolis or Drew Brees of Purdue fame. Good year![/quote]

in_cavediver
01-30-2010, 13:29
I went to the very first ever Colts game in Indy. Been a fan ever since. I figure I am entitled to bask is the current glory since the best chance we had prior to that was the 9-7 year with the comeback kid Jim Harbaugh. (a play short of the Superbowl in '96). That many 1-15, 3-13 seasons earns us a right to enjoy Peyton and the decade of winning he has brought to Indy.

mrbeast1414
02-10-2010, 18:10
Bigman - As stated, it's not usually a great idea for most to buy gear before they get certified. A few reasons for this are:

Some people find they only/mostly like diving in certain conditions (warm, clear water, reefs, boats, shore, etc)
some people find diving isn't for them
It takes time to find out what kind of diving you like/don't like
Gear can be expensive
The resale value on dive gear is relatively low
I'm sure their are plenty of other reasons and I've only listed a few. It's good you're researching gear and equipment and even better you are asking questions. The thing is until you get in the water and dive you really will have little idea of what you like and don't like and what works/doesn't work for you.

In the beginning I think it's best to rent most gear then make informed decisions on what to buy. An example is I have a 7mm farmer john wetsuit I bought when I first started diving Lake Michigan. It was fine for summer diving but no where near warm enough for me for the 39* water temps I dive in early or late season (or at some depths all season). I ended up buying a drysuit and the hyperstretch 7mm was a $450 waste of money.

Tanks are usually bought as a convenience item, for most people. I like having mine because I can keep them filled and be ready to dive on short notice and not have to worry about returning them in a narrow window. I'm not saving any real money owning them vs renting as the rental fee is only $2 more than the fill fee (not including the yearly vis, O2 cleaning, and hydro costs).

Bottom line is you need to find out what works for you and what you like. The only way to do that is to dive.

Ya I just started to dive an I rented equipment for my first few trips. I found out for sure that I loved it and then spent time to earn the money and then purchase good gear. Dacor Talon is a good BC for very cheap. I would suggest for sure purchasing your own "personal gear" (fins. snorkel, wet suit, mask, etc.) before your dive and preferable before your certification class so you can maximize your comfort with that gear. Hope this helps!


mrbeast1414