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B Lo
05-23-2010, 23:03
Does anyone know what specific equipment is required in order to obtain the PADI Cavern Diver specialty certification. I understand that there are particular items that are suggested, but I am concerned with what is actually required with regard to obtaining this certification. If there are any PADI instructors out there that happen to teach for this certification, I'd appreciate it if they'd chime in with their thoughts. Thanks!

B Lo
05-23-2010, 23:04
Attention MODERATOR: Please move this thread out of the "regulator" section. I mistakenly posted it here. Thanks!

B Lo
05-23-2010, 23:06
I would like to point out that I have reviewed the PADI website and seen that they list the following as required: "Basic Scuba Gear, lights, lines & reels"

I just can't imagine that's the extent of it - no hose length requirements, etc...

in_cavediver
05-24-2010, 04:49
B Lo,

Do yourself a favor and skip PADI for cavern. While I am sure there are some good instructors out there - all it takes to be one is a Full Cave cert plus OWSI to teach it.

If you want to learn Cavern diving, look to one of the Cave Diving agencies. NACD, NSS-CDS etc. There you will get a look at cave/cavern diving in a more holistic sense. Those instructors are OWSI's and then peer reviewed prior to becoming cave instructors. GUE is another option but they start with Cave 1 which is more of cavern/intro rather than only cavern.

mitsuguy
05-24-2010, 05:14
Cavern is still very recreational when taught through PADI...

Cavern is an overhead environment, but not a tightly confined one, nor do you go past the ambient light zone...

It is really just an intro to the theory behind cave diving, and should not be construed as a ticket to go into a real cave past where you can see ambient light...

There are no hose length requirements because you won't be going through any passageways that would require a single file air share... There are also no requirements as far as redundant gas. Like I said, its purely recreational...

rongoodman
05-24-2010, 05:20
I don't know where in Florida you are, but you're probably not all that far from cave country. I'd suggest taking your course from one of the cave agencies, rather than PADI.

DivingCRNA
05-24-2010, 07:06
Maybe I had an exceptional instructor. When I took PADI cavern we had to have 2 lights, 2 reels and a 5' or 7' primary hose.

We did air sharing drills with and without masks and sharing air in single file with and without masks.

We did land based line drills blindfolded and use "A Blueprint for Survival" as our text for the course.

This was 4-5 years ago. It was PADI. Maybe I had an exceptional instructor, or maybe PADI is just really easy to slam because they are the biggest.

I bet SSI, NAUI, AINTD, or any other agency would catch the same flack if they were the same sized.

If you are not ready to bite off doing full cave, find a really good cavern instructor from any agency and do the course. At the least, you will learn the limits to hopefully not die in a cave as an OW diver.

Scuba Pete
05-24-2010, 07:13
As Mitsuguy already pointed out, any cavern class is a recreational class. When I took mine we had already been diving doubles and a long hose. Our instructor made us take our long hoses off and use the standard recreational gear configuration, minus the snorkel. As far as lights go, a canister light is by far the best option. If you can not buy one or borrow one then any larger handheld will do. Reels, you shouldnt need to go out and buy a reel our instructor provided that for our cavern class. Any of the cave classes you are expected to have them. Your instructor should be able to let you know if he will provide one or if you have to. I would also drift away from PADI for your cavern class. NACD, NSS-CDS are far better.

Foo2
05-25-2010, 09:32
Attention MODERATOR: Please move this thread out of the "regulator" section. I mistakenly posted it here. Thanks!


Sure thing:smiley20:

fire diver
05-25-2010, 09:43
You're best bet is to talk to several instructors. Ask them about gear requirements, and gear recommendations. Ask them about what is covered in thier course, and what books they require.

Don't choose the instructor that is the easiest, and don't choose based on price.

navyhmc
05-25-2010, 13:04
I'm probably taking a cavern course this summer...I'll make a determinaton after that....

fire diver
05-25-2010, 14:43
I'm probably taking a cavern course this summer...I'll make a determinaton after that....

You need to use SLIM as your instructor. He's great, and diving at Roubidoux is great (when the weather works)

navyhmc
05-25-2010, 15:05
I'm probably taking a cavern course this summer...I'll make a determinaton after that....

You need to use SLIM as your instructor. He's great, and diving at Roubidoux is great (when the weather works)

Medicdiver and I are going to take it with Kevin Runker. I've not taken a class from him, but Jeff gave him great reviews with his Deep Tech. I'm thinking Cavern will be good enough for me as far as overhead...I don't think I'm anywhere near ready for full cave. Man's got to know his limitations.:smiley20:

B Lo
05-25-2010, 15:49
Thanks to all who responded. To answer some of the questions that have been posed, I am located in Central Florida - off the I-4 corridor. I am sometimes in the northern part of the state, though, so cave country isn't terribly far. Roubidoux is, however, a bit too far for me to travel. ;-) I am definitely not interested in cave diving and just want a tiny exposure to cavern diving. Hence, since the PADI course seems less involved, I thought it might suit my needs and budget more so than some of the more established and involved caving groups.

in_cavediver
05-25-2010, 18:16
Thanks to all who responded. To answer some of the questions that have been posed, I am located in Central Florida - off the I-4 corridor. I am sometimes in the northern part of the state, though, so cave country isn't terribly far. Roubidoux is, however, a bit too far for me to travel. ;-) I am definitely not interested in cave diving and just want a tiny exposure to cavern diving. Hence, since the PADI course seems less involved, I thought it might suit my needs and budget more so than some of the more established and involved caving groups.

To be blunt - your rationale is off base. Cavern diving, while done in rec context - is still overhead diving. If you want to do it, please learn to do it right and make the effort to understand its implications.

To put things in perspective - think of a CESA for an OOA emergency. In OW, its not pleasant but doable. In a cavern, you might have to go 70-80' horizontally before you can go vertical in the water.

If you venture into an overhead (which cavern is very clearly), I'd think divers would want the best training possible.

As for cost - my Cavern (many many years ago) was only $150 through the NACD. A bargain for what I learned. You are so close to cave country, I can't imagine why you would *not* seek out the best instructors for this. Some quite literally 'wrote the book' - why compromise with a PADI class. I don't say this to demean PADI, I say it because the best instructors teach for the Cave agencies in this class, not PADI. (they might teach PADI OW/AOW classes though)

chicken
05-28-2010, 06:07
The cavern class is a little more than $150 now. I looked at the "serious" cave instructors and paid $300 for my cavern class. It was worth every nickel. My instructor was a NSS-CDS/IANTD cave instructor with over 20 years experience in caves.

What I learned was proper equipment setup, fine buoyancy control,reel work, and most importantly safety. My dive buddy, who is a PADI instructor, was certified by PADI to teach the cavern class after we finished full cave. No other requirements except for $60 to get his "C" card.

My buddy is a good instructor but my cavern/cave instructor had much more experience. My advice is to take the class from a local expert. There are many great instructors in the North Florida area. If you would like the info on my cavern/cave instructor just PM me.

ianr33
05-28-2010, 22:02
My advice is to take the class from a local expert. There are many great instructors in the North Florida area. If you would like the info on my cavern/cave instructor just PM me.

Totally agree with that.

My cave instructor had been diving caves for at least 30 years. I liked that. Either do overhead diving properly or dont do it at all.This stuff can kill you if you mess up.

Also happy to give info/suggestions by PM

jj1987
08-16-2010, 00:01
To be blunt - your rationale is off base. Cavern diving, while done in rec context - is still overhead diving. If you want to do it, please learn to do it right and make the effort to understand its implications.

To put things in perspective - think of a CESA for an OOA emergency. In OW, its not pleasant but doable. In a cavern, you might have to go 70-80' horizontally before you can go vertical in the water.

If you venture into an overhead (which cavern is very clearly), I'd think divers would want the best training possible.

As for cost - my Cavern (many many years ago) was only $150 through the NACD. A bargain for what I learned. You are so close to cave country, I can't imagine why you would *not* seek out the best instructors for this. Some quite literally 'wrote the book' - why compromise with a PADI class. I don't say this to demean PADI, I say it because the best instructors teach for the Cave agencies in this class, not PADI. (they might teach PADI OW/AOW classes though)
:rolleyes: .... several padi instructors teach for all the other agencies. One of the oldest nacd/nss instructors teaches padi cave.

The instructor crossovers have gotten stupid. You teach for 1 agency and within 2 months you teach for them all. I guess every agency wants some money to cut cards.

And let's get real, its not like the nss-cds or nacd are getting real tight on standards, you've got to hunt for the right instructor with every agency, except maybe UTD/GUE.

TommyB
08-16-2010, 01:33
If you are in NFL or CFL (North Florida / Central Florida) I would post over here
Cave Diver's Forum - The Cave Diver's Forum Front Page (http://www.cavediver.net) and ask some of your cavern questions. Most, if not all of the Instructors (at least the ones that teach everyday) that teach Cave and Cavern, etc hang out there.

I'm sure you'll find one that fits your needs, budget, etc over there.

I would skip the whole padi cavern thing and go with NACD or NSS/CDS cavern

If you want more info on NACD
NACD Training (http://www.safecavediving.com/training.shtml#Cavern)
and
NSS/CDS
NSS-CDS Training Programs | National Speleological Society Cave Diving Section (http://www.nsscds.org/test/drupal/trainingprograms)

in_cavediver
08-16-2010, 05:44
:rolleyes: .... several padi instructors teach for all the other agencies. One of the oldest nacd/nss instructors teaches padi cave.

The instructor crossovers have gotten stupid. You teach for 1 agency and within 2 months you teach for them all. I guess every agency wants some money to cut cards.

And let's get real, its not like the nss-cds or nacd are getting real tight on standards, you've got to hunt for the right instructor with every agency, except maybe UTD/GUE.

I wasn't aware PADI still teaches cave? I thought they dropped that in favor of only Cavern....

As for instructors and standards - its up to the student to find the right match. I still think that you have a better shot of getting a good instructor if you get on who teaches in North Florida for one of the major Cave agencies. They can also teach PADI stuff - its just I think the instructor process for NACD and NSS-CDS is a good vetting process to ensure that the one of those instructors was competent - at least when they became an instructor. PADI lacks the peer review in their process. I believe for them its Full cave certified+$25+OWSI to teach it.

jj1987
08-16-2010, 12:20
I wasn't aware PADI still teaches cave? I thought they dropped that in favor of only Cavern....

As for instructors and standards - its up to the student to find the right match. I still think that you have a better shot of getting a good instructor if you get on who teaches in North Florida for one of the major Cave agencies. They can also teach PADI stuff - its just I think the instructor process for NACD and NSS-CDS is a good vetting process to ensure that the one of those instructors was competent - at least when they became an instructor. PADI lacks the peer review in their process. I believe for them its Full cave certified+$25+OWSI to teach it.
They recently brought back cave. Some of the very well known IANTD/NSS/NACD instructors are teaching PADI now as well. I'm not real sure why instructors like to teach for every agency under the sun (maybe it's a financial thing?), but it seems most of them do it.

navyhmc
08-16-2010, 17:02
I have the option of getting IANTD and PADI when I do my cavern in Sep. I haven't decided yet whether or not I'll spring the extra $$'s for PADI.

jj1987
08-17-2010, 00:48
I have the option of getting IANTD and PADI when I do my cavern in Sep. I haven't decided yet whether or not I'll spring the extra $$'s for PADI.
I don't really see any benefit to getting 2 cavern cards. I'd go with IANTD just because some instructors won't accept the PADI cavern cards.

navyhmc
08-17-2010, 20:14
I don't really see any benefit to getting 2 cavern cards. I'd go with IANTD just because some instructors won't accept the PADI cavern cards.

I was told I can get the PADI card for $20 more so I figured, why not-keep the APDI chain going as well I think it all depends on how I fell after I get done.

jj1987
08-17-2010, 23:50
I was told I can get the PADI card for $20 more so I figured, why not-keep the APDI chain going as well I think it all depends on how I fell after I get done.
I have a JR OW card and basic nitrox outside of full cave, so I can't comment on that aspect lol

Might should upgrade that JR OW card one of these days...last time I was on a boat they let me know a dive master would be on the boat and I could buddy up with him if I felt uncomfortable. :)

navyhmc
08-18-2010, 00:26
I have a JR OW card and basic nitrox outside of full cave, so I can't comment on that aspect lol

Might should upgrade that JR OW card one of these days...last time I was on a boat they let me know a dive master would be on the boat and I could buddy up with him if I felt uncomfortable. :)

:smiley36: :smilie39: :smilie39: :smiley36:

mstueven
08-23-2010, 20:12
I have the option of getting IANTD and PADI when I do my cavern in Sep. I haven't decided yet whether or not I'll spring the extra $$'s for PADI.

Good luck in your cavern class navy! Come look me up after and we'll make some dives!

bigman241
10-18-2010, 05:42
This is what I fund on bonne terre mines out side of ST Louis.



Masks & Fins with straps taped
Regulator with submersible pressure gauge
Octopus second stage on 7' hose
BCD, Weights
Exposure Suit (wet or dry)
Dive Computer
Slate with pencil
Two (2) submersible lights
Knife, Line Cutter
Reel with 150' line

bigman241
10-18-2010, 05:44
funny funny funyy. A guy who is working for us has his padi cert. Guess him and his mom did it when he was a kid and he is having trouble finding his card. I bet his is a jr card lol
I have a JR OW card and basic nitrox outside of full cave, so I can't comment on that aspect lol

Might should upgrade that JR OW card one of these days...last time I was on a boat they let me know a dive master would be on the boat and I could buddy up with him if I felt uncomfortable. :)

gNats
10-18-2010, 08:47
This is what I fund on bonne terre mines out side of ST Louis.



Masks & Fins with straps taped
Regulator with submersible pressure gauge
Octopus second stage on 7' hose
BCD, Weights
Exposure Suit (wet or dry)
Dive Computer
Slate with pencil
Two (2) submersible lights
Knife, Line Cutter
Reel with 150' line



Bigman,

I haven't dove Bonne Terre (yet), but others who have said it was like going trailriding on a horse. There will be multiple divemasters, at least one in front and one in the rear to take you on dive tours of the mine.

You have to dive the trails in sequential order. So, trails 1-5 are easier than trails 6-10. I'm really surprised about this gear list. For the longest time, they didn't allow lights on your person. The reel is another anomoly.

Do you have the URL for that list?

navyhmc
10-18-2010, 08:55
gNats, that's the gear list if you're taking the cavern course there. AFAIK, they still don't want lights on the tours, just a regualr dive kit.

gNats
10-18-2010, 09:03
gNats, that's the gear list if you're taking the cavern course there. AFAIK, they still don't want lights on the tours, just a regualr dive kit.

Thanks Navy! I thought that gear list looked quirky.

How was your diving this weekend? I had hoped to pop over and say howdy but the weekend got away from me.

bigman241
10-18-2010, 17:42
No I made it up to screw with everyone. LOL no hear it is, it is half way down on the cavern cert page, could be requirements for padi or SSI and not them. I am wondering if my lights would be good enough? Really thinking about it if we do not go to florida in dec. More for the education and training to give me more expernice in overhead for wreck and I can see doing several trips over there a year. More in the winter when it is to cold here. SO when you want to meet up there and do a dive so we can both get what looks to be a once in a life time experience
Bigman,

I haven't dove Bonne Terre (yet), but others who have said it was like going trailriding on a horse. There will be multiple divemasters, at least one in front and one in the rear to take you on dive tours of the mine.

You have to dive the trails in sequential order. So, trails 1-5 are easier than trails 6-10. I'm really surprised about this gear list. For the longest time, they didn't allow lights on your person. The reel is another anomoly.

Do you have the URL for that list?

navyhmc
10-18-2010, 21:54
Thanks Navy! I thought that gear list looked quirky.

How was your diving this weekend? I had hoped to pop over and say howdy but the weekend got away from me.

It went great! pretty good dives until I had to turn the last dive Saturday due to a monster crap in my left calf. I mean it nearly made me go to tears - bboth from pain and from having to turn the dive. I hate doing that. I know anyone, anytime, but still. Sunday was fun-line drills in the air cave a couple of three times just to get the hang of it. A lot different running a reel in a cave than shooting a bag with one.