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Kidder
09-08-2007, 12:59
I have heard a lot of talk on dry suits. It seems like crushed neoprene is better but pricier. Is this true?

Charles R
09-08-2007, 13:23
That is kind of like asking is Naui better than PADI it is all preference and dive conditions. They are warmer with less undergarments but they tend to compress like a wet suit with depth. they are more expensive seem to be more rugged in certain environments etc etc etc........

medic001918
09-08-2007, 13:28
Crushed neoprene shouldn't compress much at depth, but should be warmer than a trilam suit with fewer undergarments. The trilam suit is lighter though. A regular neoprene drysuit will crush at depth though, and you will have to deal with that issue. It all depends on what environment you're diving in and what you're looking for in your suit. I dive a crushed neoprene, well my fiance prefers a trilam.

Shane

thesmoothdome
09-08-2007, 14:10
Like medic mentioned, crushed neoprene, a DUI exclusive, does not compress. Here's a few points to consider when deciding on a material:

Weight: Tri-lam will be a lot lighter. Crushed neoprene is heavy and even heavier wet.

Inherent warmth: Without undergarments, crushed neoprene will provide a bit more warmth than a tri-lam suit.

Durability: Crushed neoprene is designed to be tough as nails. Tri-lam, less so. That doesn't mean you're going to tear a tri-lam suit. It just means, you have less of a chance to tear a crushed neoprene one.

Drying: With a tri-lam suit, you can pretty much wipe off water and excess moisture and pack the suit away. Crushed neoprene dries much slower.

Fit: Crushed neoprene will stretch. Tri-lam won't. This allows crushed neoprene suits to be cut a bit tighter and therefore, more streamlined.

Just a few things to consider. Truith is, neither is superior in all aspects. I'd prefer a lighter suit, but I used to be rough on my gear, so I always wanted the toughness of a CF200.

texdiveguy
09-08-2007, 14:21
I have a crushed neo dry suit....very strong and warm....though a bit heavy wearing on land and transporting.

terrillja
09-08-2007, 14:24
I personally have a hyper-compressed neoprene suit (7mm compressed to 2mm) It has been very durable, the only gripe I have with it is that it weighs a ton.

When I went to choose a dry suit, I wanted one that would last for a long time, and would be hard to damage, since it is hard to get drysuit repairs near me, and the hyper-compressed neoprene is a great suit for that.

I dive with a Bare XCD2 Tech Dry Suit

Kidder
09-08-2007, 14:56
Thank you for the replys everyone. I've got some decisions to make. It seems like the Trilam would be better if I was to only dive dry from now on. Summer through winter.

medic001918
09-08-2007, 14:56
Like medic mentioned, crushed neoprene, a DUI exclusive, does not compress.

I don't think that the crushed neoprene is a DUI exclusive. I dive a Bare XCD2 Pro suit, which is a 2mm crushed neoprene. But the post that you wrote outlining the differences was great.

Shane

Charles R
09-08-2007, 14:59
Thank you for the replys everyone. I've got some decisions to make. It seems like the Trilam would be better if I was to only dive dry from now on. Summer through winter.
Thats the way I went!

Kidder
09-08-2007, 15:03
Like medic mentioned, crushed neoprene, a DUI exclusive, does not compress.

I don't think that the crushed neoprene is a DUI exclusive. I dive a Bare XCD2 Pro suit, which is a 2mm crushed neoprene. But the post that you wrote outlining the differences was great.

Shane

I agree Medic did an awesome job explaining. It would be a great post for anyone considering a dry suit.

terrillja
09-08-2007, 15:03
Thank you for the replys everyone. I've got some decisions to make. It seems like the Trilam would be better if I was to only dive dry from now on. Summer through winter.

Also depends where you dive, if you are doing wreck penetration, having a bit more rugged suit material wouldn't hurt.

Kidder
09-08-2007, 15:06
This is true. A snag on your dry suit down 90ft would not be cool (it would be cold ;-) )

Charles R
09-08-2007, 15:09
This is true. A snag on your dry suit down 90ft would not be cool (it would be cold ;-) )
were are you from your profile dosent say? where do you Dive?

terrillja
09-08-2007, 15:11
This is true. A snag on your dry suit down 90ft would not be cool (it would be cold ;-) )
were are you from your profile dosent say? where do you Dive?

I have in Lake Sunapee, NH, where it doesn't break 45 under the thermal layer, so if you get a hole, it could be a long, cold trip up.

Kidder
09-08-2007, 15:20
This is true. A snag on your dry suit down 90ft would not be cool (it would be cold ;-) )
were are you from your profile dosent say? where do you Dive?

I live close to St. louis. I typically dive in Table Rock lake. Only one real wreck there (the Zeplan pike). Its at about 90 feet. Othere than that not much wreck diving to be had. Lots of fish and finding stuff under the waves for me.The water is usually in the 40s deep. Plus I'm looking at increasing the length of my dive season. :smiley2:

thesmoothdome
09-08-2007, 16:09
Like medic mentioned, crushed neoprene, a DUI exclusive, does not compress.

I don't think that the crushed neoprene is a DUI exclusive. I dive a Bare XCD2 Pro suit, which is a 2mm crushed neoprene. But the post that you wrote outlining the differences was great.

Shane

Thanks Shane. :).


Just out of curiousity, I checked the Bare website and found this as a descriptor for your suit:
2mm hyper-compressed Metalite neoprene, laminated with Diamond-Tuff nylon

DUI has a patent on the process of crushing the neoprene and as long as it's valid, I'm pretty sure they're the only ones who can make true crushed neoprene suits.

Here's a link that explains the differences between crushed neoprene and compressed neoprene suits: http://www.dui-online.com/tech_crushed_neo.html .

BTW, this is in no way suggesting that the Bare suit is in anyway inferior to the DUI. It's just different.

texdiveguy
09-08-2007, 16:16
My dry suit is a BARE and stands up the a similar neo. DUI product.

Chances of putting holes/tears in dry suits are very slim , you have far greater issues with leaks.

cummings66
09-08-2007, 19:28
Only one real wreck there (the Zeplan pike). Its at about 90 feet. Othere than that not much wreck diving to be had. Lots of fish and finding stuff under the waves for me.The water is usually in the 40s deep.

The Zebulon Pike is a planted wreck, just like the others. There are lots of them there by the way, including one at 130 feet. Depending on whether you call a submerged bridge that's intact a wreck or not you could have even more things to see.

A drysuit at Table Rock is handy, even in the Summer. I've hit 42 degree's when it's 100 topside. Kind of sweaty but once down deep it's nice to have.

cummings66
09-08-2007, 19:30
They're close IMO. A DUI suit seems stiffer to me and that's about the only difference I can detect.

texdiveguy
09-08-2007, 19:44
[QUOTE=cummings66;47923][quote=Kidder;47769] Depending on whether you call a submerged bridge that's intact a wreck or not you could have even more things to see.[QUOTE]

Copied from a note of recent----
"The bridge is still there as I remember it from 4 previous dives, but the side scan sonar picture is correct also. The bell is also still in its original position, chained to the top girder.

Actually, all that remains of the bridge is the north span and the north approach. The bell is still there, but it is located on the north span, not the south one as I had thought.

This explains why the bottom of the pier at the end of the bridge is at 175 (the middle of the old White River) and not something quite shallower as it should be if it was the end pier nearest the bank.

I had thought all that was missing was the south approach, but actually both the south span and the south approach are missing. I suspect that this has been missing since 1958 when rising water halted the salvage of the bridge.

They are very interesting to study. I met with a local historian, and he told me how there are no existing records showing who actually built the present bridge. According to him, both MODOT and the Corps of Engineers deny having built the new bridge. Both claim the other built it, but neither have any records proving such (The Corps' Little Rock office told him they dump all records after 10 years)."

****OK OK back on OP's Topic please....sorry for the straying!****

Kidder
09-09-2007, 10:52
[quote=cummings66;47923][quote=Kidder;47769] Depending on whether you call a submerged bridge that's intact a wreck or not you could have even more things to see.[quote]

Copied from a note of recent----
"The bridge is still there as I remember it from 4 previous dives, but the side scan sonar picture is correct also. The bell is also still in its original position, chained to the top girder.

Actually, all that remains of the bridge is the north span and the north approach. The bell is still there, but it is located on the north span, not the south one as I had thought.

This explains why the bottom of the pier at the end of the bridge is at 175 (the middle of the old White River) and not something quite shallower as it should be if it was the end pier nearest the bank.

I had thought all that was missing was the south approach, but actually both the south span and the south approach are missing. I suspect that this has been missing since 1958 when rising water halted the salvage of the bridge.

They are very interesting to study. I met with a local historian, and he told me how there are no existing records showing who actually built the present bridge. According to him, both MODOT and the Corps of Engineers deny having built the new bridge. Both claim the other built it, but neither have any records proving such (The Corps' Little Rock office told him they dump all records after 10 years)."

****OK OK back on OP's Topic please....sorry for the straying!****



No need to apologize I think that the bridge would be a cool place to dive. There was a guy on my best lakes to dive in Missouri thread that took sonar pictures of the bridge. They are pretty damn cool. Did you dive the bridge with a dry suit? If so was it crush Neo or Trilam?

thesmoothdome
09-09-2007, 10:55
No need to apologize I think that the bridge would be a cool place to dive. There was a guy on my best lakes to dive in Missouri thread that took sonar pictures of the bridge. They are pretty damn cool. Did you dive the bridge with a dry suit? If so was it crush Neo or Trilam?


Way to turn the thread back on track Kidder!!! :smiley20::smiley32:

ScaredSilly
09-11-2007, 12:06
One thing about the crushed neoprene and drying as already mentioned is trying time. Many divers went to TriLams because they got tired of putting on heavy damp suits on the next morning day after day. I have not found this to be too much of a problem.

Kidder
09-11-2007, 21:03
One thing about the crushed neoprene and drying as already mentioned is trying time. Many divers went to TriLams because they got tired of putting on heavy damp suits on the next morning day after day. I have not found this to be too much of a problem.

Hi there, do you do anything special for drying? Use fan etc...

ScaredSilly
09-11-2007, 22:18
Yeah keep it out of the sun and put it where there is a breeze.

mudshark
09-15-2007, 15:16
If I can throw in my 2 cents, when trying to decide on trilam or crushed neo what helped make the decision for me was just trying them on. I'd read all the pros and cons of each type but I learned that some things will fit better than others. For example. I bought the Mares crushed neo because the boots fit. I tried a trilam and I didn't disliike it but the boots crushed my toes and I realized there was no way I was going to be able to stay in that suit with fins on for hours at a time without a lot of pain and probably damage. It also seems to me (and I could be wrong about this) that if you get the trilam, you still have to buy the quality underwear to keep you warm which is costly and with some you also have to buy external boots so the costs seem similar between trilam and neo.

Kidder
09-15-2007, 19:15
If I can throw in my 2 cents, when trying to decide on trilam or crushed neo what helped make the decision for me was just trying them on. I'd read all the pros and cons of each type but I learned that some things will fit better than others. For example. I bought the Mares crushed neo because the boots fit. I tried a trilam and I didn't disliike it but the boots crushed my toes and I realized there was no way I was going to be able to stay in that suit with fins on for hours at a time without a lot of pain and probably damage. It also seems to me (and I could be wrong about this) that if you get the trilam, you still have to buy the quality underwear to keep you warm which is costly and with some you also have to buy external boots so the costs seem similar between trilam and neo.

Hmmm very interesting.... Hey can you wear regular long underwear under the trilam for warmth? Or are there special under garments made especially for dry suits?

thesmoothdome
09-16-2007, 01:17
If I can throw in my 2 cents, when trying to decide on trilam or crushed neo what helped make the decision for me was just trying them on. I'd read all the pros and cons of each type but I learned that some things will fit better than others. For example. I bought the Mares crushed neo because the boots fit. I tried a trilam and I didn't disliike it but the boots crushed my toes and I realized there was no way I was going to be able to stay in that suit with fins on for hours at a time without a lot of pain and probably damage. It also seems to me (and I could be wrong about this) that if you get the trilam, you still have to buy the quality underwear to keep you warm which is costly and with some you also have to buy external boots so the costs seem similar between trilam and neo.

Just as a way of clarification, Mares doesn't make crush neoprene suits. Their suits are made with high density neoprene in either a 3 or 4 mil. version.

In regards to the boots, with most manufacturers, you can have them changed out for a larger size if need be. If it's a rock boot system, then you'll have neoprene socks attatched to the suit and just the external boots. Many people just wear a $25.00 pair of chuck taylors though.

Regardless of the type of suit you wear, crushed neoprene or tri-lam, you still get stuck with having to purchase the expensive undies :).

Tod
09-27-2007, 12:56
For what little it's worth (as people's opinions may vary), but I've found that while there is a noticeable weight difference between the two suits side by side hanging on the rack, when I have the crushed, flatened, squeezed, pressed, squished, smashed, air-sucked-out, ran-over-twice-by-a-big-heavy-truck, neoprene suit on I don't really notice all that extra weight that much. In the water the difference (in weight) is about zero.

Yes, the wet neoprene suit is in fact much heavier, and for some that's an issue. But it still weighs a lot less than my weight belt does (wet or dry). I don't usually pack my gear too far when I go diving, so the suit weight difference isn't that important to me.

Whichever one you decide to go with after considering all the options, then THAT'S the best choice. Meanwhile, the rest of us will try to figure out what's really the differnce between the neoprenes...

floater
10-02-2007, 17:39
I prefer my O'Neill 3mm compressed neoprene drysuit to my Bare Nex-Gen Pro bi-laminate suit because the neoprene suit is more flexible and warmer so I can get away with a snugger cut and need less undies and hence less air inside, and it swims better too.

That said, both suits work fine and from having read a bunch of these threads and from talking to people on the boats it seems to me that neoprene vs. shell suit preference breaks down about 50-50. You just have to try both to know and until then you just have to pick what to go with first and hope you made the right choice.

cummings66
10-02-2007, 18:03
You can wear whatever undergarments you want to under a drysuit regardless of make. You choose what fits the dive and use it. I prefer insulate myself, I have a buddy who likes the weasel undergarment.

In the end you'll probably find you need a couple different ones for diving throughout the year.