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jwdizney
09-08-2007, 20:50
Hello ST board gang... my wife mentioned me in a thread a few weeks back (before I ever even entered this forum) and chronicled some of my "challenges" with scuba, plus my intrigue as well. (see Husband taking discover scuba thread.. http://forum.scubatoys.com/showthread.php?t=1816)

Well, the more thought i give it, the more i suspect i'm not the only one who has, or will, ever embark on this journey. So I thought this would be a great forum for me to share my revelations, challenges, and accomplishments during this process, so maybe someone with similar concerns will find some comfort. plus, YOU GUYS are a big part.. .your support, advice, and encouragement....

I've spent my whole life basically terrified of open water. I can swim, but not a strong swimmer, i've just pretty much had a 'phobia' about drowning! (i'm also afraid of tall bridges too, but that's another story..) Well, my wife, DISNEYMOM (who's pretty much a fish, by the way) decided she wanted to learn to scuba dive. I was supportive, but in my mind i was "no way in H3LL, for me!", but i was determined to support her in this process. she went off and did classroom session, then pool session on her own... me, i stayed safely on dry land....a habit I have been quite fond of over the years... Then, we went to the lake for the OW dives... myself, i planned a fishing trip around her dive schedule, but I planned on being there while she did them, i think mainly because I felt for her safety! but that weekend was an educational and inspirational weekend for me! Even in my wildes paranoia, I saw NOTHING unsafe! the instructors were careful, safe, and thorough with their training. it seemed as though they spent more time discussing safety and safety procedures than "swimming underwater". and somehow, they lulled me into thinking that this could be actually safer than i had thought.. I saw the excitement and thrill of filling out their logbooks and the instructor signing their temporary c-cards.. this was obviously something incredible...

so, i decided i'd try........ snorkeling. that's a happy medium, isn't it? we have a pool at home and it was easy for me to "safely" try it. I liked it! WOW, you can see underwater, I didn't sink to the bottom (expel fear of sinking!) and with fins you can get around pretty good! DISNEYMOM got me a PADI Discover Snorkeling class coupon for my birthday! I was excited.. but by the time my birthday came (3 weeks later) I had fully evolved into a bonafide snorkel junkie! i really didn't think Discover Snorkeling was a worthwhile investment.. so I changed it to.... Discover Scuba! a little aprehensive, but, worst case, I could stop any time and go back to snorkeling.......

Well, if you've read the Discover Scuba thread, you know what happened next... I've signed up for OW class... in fact, my schedule is 9-12 classroom, 9-16 pool sessions, 9-22,9-23 LAKE DIVES!!.... i'm getting ready, but still a little nervous... as I get ready, i'll relay my process, thoughts, etc...

you guys have already been GREAT support, i think it only fair that I take you with me......:anim_newbie:

NitroWill
09-08-2007, 20:56
It's quite addicting, eh?

Pay attention and learn as much as you possibly can from the classes! Diving is a continual learning experience..but most importantly have fun!

finflippers
09-08-2007, 21:05
Welcome to the wonderful underwater world. With DisneyMom by your side I am sure that you will go on to enjoy many years of scuba.

Kidder
09-08-2007, 21:15
Its a very cool world you'll see stuff that you would see any other way. The people are cool to. Welcome to the adventure

jwdizney
09-08-2007, 21:36
Ok, so it’s 5 days until my classroom sessions. I’ve done the study and worksheets, feeling pretty confident in the book stuff.. BUT I remember my DS class and something that I didn’t deal very well with… Mask skills! (remember the fear of drowning?).. when I let the water in my mask, I had a major GASP reflex! Anticipating the pool and lake sessions, I figured I’d better work this out in advance, if possible… So, DISNEYMOM and I devised a plan. She put on her gear and got in the pool with me. (all this is in the shallow end, in about 3-4 feet of water). First of all, we kneel together in the water and I would breath off her octo. We stay down for a minute or two, just letting me get used to breathing underwater. Then I’d try letting small amounts of water in my mask, then clearing it. we repeated this several times until I felt comfortable with it. Then I devised a plan…

I stood in water about waist deep and, while breathing with a regulator, stuck my face in the water (no mask!). GASP!!!... it took me several tries before I got comfortable, but I did finally get comfortable. Then I added a twist. I stuck my face in the water without the regulator, recovered the reg, cleared it, then stayed until I was breathing normal, comfortably. After doing this a few times, I added another step. Put my face in the water, recover reg, clear it, breath normal, then put on mask and clear it!..... We’re getting somewhere!.. I then added even more to my exercise.. put face in water, recover reg, clear it, breath normal, put on mask, clear it, remove reg and switch to snorkel, clear it!... WOW, this is really working! Finally, after doing this a while, I was comfortable switching between reg and snorkel, mask or no mask, all while my face is in the water!

This was a good day!......i’ll continue to repeat these exercises every day (if possible) so that I am completely proficient in my mask skills, all the while, overcoming my fears….


Stay tuned………

jwdizney
09-08-2007, 21:37
nitro, fin, and kidder......
THANKS! you guys are great!

finflippers
09-08-2007, 21:48
Sounds like you are doing great. Keep up the good work. Maybe one day I will get Scuba Widow over her fears and she won't have to be a scuba widow any more.

jwdizney
09-08-2007, 21:57
Fin,
thanks! it's certainly a lot more interesting than it appears on the outside...and SAFER.... maybe my journey will help Widow....:smiley20:

Foo2
09-08-2007, 22:14
Wow jwdizney! I'm so proud to hear about your accomplishments! That can be a hard skill for anyone to learn, regardless of their phobias in the water! Way to go! Thanks for sharing!

jwdizney
09-08-2007, 22:23
Thanks Foo!....
actually, i think the sticky stuff should taste like pizza..... just a thought...

Liv7301
09-08-2007, 23:18
Just keep working on expanding your comfort level...you have already made such amazing progress! There are many of us around here that are really impressed by the head on way you are overcoming your fears. It's inspiring!

In the words of Dory, "Just keep swimming, just keep swimming..."

Actually since this is scuba that really should be breathing, not swimming...

And I think envelopes should have Listerine adhesive, so that we can fight plaque and gingivitis, all while paying the bills.

scuba Widow
09-08-2007, 23:21
Thanks for the support on the phobia thing...maybe this next summer we can start working in the swimming thing.

quarrydiver
09-08-2007, 23:47
Congrats! Every time you get in the water your skills and comfort level will improve.

kevinj1
09-08-2007, 23:58
JW,
Thank you for taking us on your journey to overcome this fear. I know, at times, it must be a little difficult to talk about. We are land based creatures, so, of course this might feel strange to do.
Just wait until you get to see this under water world we all talk about. It is the best place on earth.

p.s. take it from me, I am a drowning survivor and I still wouldn't give up diving for anything.

jwdizney
09-09-2007, 08:16
Thanks for the support on the phobia thing...maybe this next summer we can start working in the swimming thing.

That's great news Widow!.. try it first in a pool with a wetsuit, fins, mask & snorkel, if you can! a full wetsuit is like a full body flotation device! that way, you can learn the technique with the safety net of flotation and breathing... not a bad thing, trust me!


In the words of Dory, "Just keep swimming, just keep swimming..."

Actually since this is scuba that really should be breathing, not swimming...

And I think envelopes should have Listerine adhesive, so that we can fight plaque and gingivitis, all while paying the bills.

I'm a Dory fan myself, but I agree on the breathing thing.... Listerine, good idea! healthy alternative to the pizza adhesive....


Congrats! Every time you get in the water your skills and comfort level will improve.

that seems to be the key, at least so far. practice, practice, practice....


JW,
Thank you for taking us on your journey to overcome this fear. I know, at times, it must be a little difficult to talk about. We are land based creatures, so, of course this might feel strange to do.
Just wait until you get to see this under water world we all talk about. It is the best place on earth.

p.s. take it from me, I am a drowning survivor and I still wouldn't give up diving for anything.

Kevin- this is inspirational, that you could have survived drowning and "got back on the horse"... thank you for your support!!

creggur
09-09-2007, 08:42
Congratulations on your progress!!! As you've noticed there are a lot of people pulling for you here!!!

My wife, while not afraid of the water, had quite a few issues with the mask clearing, and mask remove and replace.. From what I've read this is one of the more common "issues" students have during OW training. My wife said she would just tell herself "I'm still breathing, everything is fine".

Just remember as you learn the skills in OW, it's not a race.. Just do everything in slow-motion, it will help you stay calm and do the skill right the first time. I would also say when you first get in the water, just throw the reg in your mouth, sans mask, stick your face in the water and breathe for a couple of minutes. You may feel a tinge of anxiety at first, but you quickly realize that "I'm still breathing, and everything is fine"..

Good luck on your OW class, and remember we are all pulling for you!!!
Don't forget to post on your progress..That's the kind of thing that will help this forum grow into a greater resource for others as they begin their journey!!

Capt Hook
09-09-2007, 08:49
I can understand your fears; I do not like being on the surface in deep water, so waiting for the boat to pick us up is sometime unsettling.

jwdizney
09-09-2007, 08:53
Congratulations on your progress!!! I would also say when you first get in the water, just throw the reg in your mouth, sans mask, stick your face in the water and breathe for a couple of minutes. You may feel a tinge of anxiety at first, but you quickly realize that "I'm still breathing, and everything is fine"..



that's a GREAT tip! thanks creggur!

jwdizney
09-09-2007, 08:54
I can understand your fears; I do not like being on the surface in deep water, so waiting for the boat to pick us up is sometime unsettling.

I can see that as being another obstacle down the road.....yikes!!!

Vercingetorix
09-09-2007, 09:00
BUT I remember my DS class and something that I didn’t deal very well with… Mask skills! (remember the fear of drowning?).. when I let the water in my mask, I had a major GASP reflex!What! You did mask skills in Discover SCUBA?? In my DS, the instructor said there would be no skills. They wanted me to discover the FUN of SCUBA. The flooded mask is probably the most difficult skill because it goes against our survival instinct.

I'm glad you are practicing the mask and reg skills, and that you are more comfortable with them. You'll be leagues ahead of the other students. Speaking of students, one will be your buddy during class. Perhaps, an alternative would be if DisneyMom was your buddy for the pool and lake. Ask the instructor if she can join (non-paying). You're going to be diving together anyway; let it begin here.

Finally, if she isn't your buddy, ensure she brings along the digital camera to take a few photos of you during class. We ALL want to see the happy graduate.

Then, plan your "Graduation Trip" by going south. I mean, where better to celebrate than this little scuba store I know in Carrollton, Texas. You may have heard of it...ScubaToys. Then, drive an hour southeast, and we'll come join you and DisneyMom at Clear Springs in Terrell (you'll love the airplane, shark, and wall dives).

Disneymom
09-09-2007, 09:42
Then, plan your "Graduation Trip" by going south. I mean, where better to celebrate than this little scuba store I know in Carrollton, Texas. You may have heard of it...ScubaToys. Then, drive an hour southeast, and we'll come join you and DisneyMom at Clear Springs in Terrell (you'll love the airplane, shark, and wall dives).Oh, yeah, Rick.... he's already got the trip south planned and booked. Unfortunately, I don't get to go!! :fit_old:


Many thanks to all my (our) ST forum friends for all the support and encouragement you've given him!

jwdizney
09-09-2007, 12:55
Rick,
I have a business trip to dallas on tuesday following my OW dives, so I'm working in a stop at ST... unfortunately, i won't have time to go and dive the park, but this is definitely a trip we plan on making... when we get the opportunity to drive down, we'll let you guys know and maybe we can meet up there. it would be great to put a face to some of the great scuba 'fanatics' we've met here!

Vercingetorix
09-09-2007, 13:08
Oh, yeah, Rick.... he's already got the trip south planned and booked. Unfortunately, I don't get to go!! :fit_old:



Rick,
I have a business trip to dallas on tuesday following my OW dives, so I'm working in a stop at ST... unfortunately, i won't have time to go and dive the park, but this is definitely a trip we plan on making... when we get the opportunity to drive down, we'll let you guys know and maybe we can meet up there. it would be great to put a face to some of the great scuba 'fanatics' we've met here!

DisneyMom, we've previously discussed a weekend jaunt for you to CSSP. Now, we can add The Graduate. Note the word "weekend". . Drive from Okie-land Saturday morning; ST opens at 10 AM. Drool and buy gear. Head to Terrell. Dive. There's an inexpensive travel hotel in Terrell that you can stay at on Saturday night (or camp). Dive on Sunday and head home.

Thus, DisneyMom and jwDisney can have fun and meet a bunch of us.

Oh...jwdisney, DisneyMom will be totally excited about your OW accomplishment and she will deny you nothing. Take advantage of her.
No...not that...get your mind out of the gutter.:nono: I mean, she'll let you buy anything you want at ScubaToys. I have to justify every purchase to my spousal unit. But remember, her mood may pass quickly. Use it. Now.

jwdizney
09-09-2007, 13:46
[quote=Vercingetorix;48307
Oh...jwdisney, DisneyMom will be totally excited about your OW accomplishment and she will deny you nothing. Take advantage of her.
No...not that...get your mind out of the gutter.:nono: I mean, she'll let you buy anything you want at ScubaToys. I have to justify every purchase to my spousal unit. But remember, her mood may pass quickly. Use it. Now.[/quote]


very good point Rick! I think my strategy will be to get her something when I get something. fortunately, i've planned ahead and bought her a lot of equipment already... i'll just be "catching up"!....:smiley2:

we are discussing a possible weekend trip in the near future. we're planning to dive EPCOT at Disneyworld in Oct.. and i'd sure like to get some 'down' time before we go.. maybe go ahead and get my ST fix in advance, then come down on friday night for a dive weekend.... hmmm... seems reasonable..i'm guessing the 'springs' is a pretty good site? we have some close friends in Houston that are divers, and it would be neat if they could make the trip up and meet us there as well.

I'm not a diver yet, but i'm already finding this sport addictive! I am constantly drooling over the equipment on the site! it's quite obsessive!

:pc:

YellowfinKunkfish
09-09-2007, 14:15
I also had a huge fear of *open water* Never swam in the lake, let alone the ocean! When I did my two discover scuba dives in the Bahamas I was amazed to discover, I wasn't afraid! I was nervous on the surface (it was a little choppy) but once we got under the water, the nerves went away, and I had a blast! It's not completely gone yet, as long as I have scuba gear on I'm fine, but I noticed I was a little anxious snorkeling at the lake about a month ago with just my mask, snorkel, and fins on. So, I made myself keep doing it, until I was comfortable. I guess you can't just erase all those years of fear in only 7 months time, but someday I know I will be completely comfortable. I know if you have the will, and determination, you can do it!! (And an awesome instructor really helps too!)The practicing you're doing with your face in the water is great! I had trouble with mask removal and replace. My instructor had me breathe with my face in the water, and reg in my mouth (we did it on snorkel first) and it worked like a charm!:smiley20:

Honestly, it really comes down to how bad you want it.

Rhonda

jwdizney
09-09-2007, 14:31
Thanks Rhonda!
I think an advantage to certifying in the ocean is the exposure to the swells and chop... that's going to be an interesting experience in itself! I am eerily looking forward to it! Your experience is very encouraging to me! swimming in the lake has ALWAYS been a big NO-NO for me.... any other advice you may offer will be greatly appreciated.... I'm hoping my 'journey' with you guys will also be encouraging to someone else new to the sport...
I like your yellowfin kunk fish pic...if that's what it is! pretty cool!

now, i think it's time to go work on my mask stuff again!

dallasdivergirl
09-09-2007, 16:07
it's good to see such enthusiasm for diving.

I wanted to dive for years before I did my classes. I even admit to taking my mask & snorkle to the city pool before my classes began. Last year I became truly comfortable & my trim, bouancy and skills improved & I quit diving with too much weight.

I am very impressed with your progress & am looking forward to you next update.

Vercingetorix
09-09-2007, 16:12
When you do to Epcot, I'll volunteer to carry your bags. I've already told my wife the next time we're at Disney World, I'm doing the Living Seas dive. You'll see many good write-ups on other boards about this dive. Google it.

Since you guys are obviously Disney fanatics, I gotta ask: have you done a Disney cruise yet? If not, I recommend it. Last November, we did a 7-day cruise followed by 4 nights at DisneyWorld. Disney Cruise has it's own private island (Castaway Cay), where you can snorkel. There was even stingrays to snorkel with (it was closed our day there).

quarrydiver
09-09-2007, 17:34
Disney knows how to do service eh? We've done the 7 night western and eastern caribbean and loved em both. It's hard to get off the boat.

Disneymom
09-09-2007, 18:49
When you do to Epcot, I'll volunteer to carry your bags. I've already told my wife the next time we're at Disney World, I'm doing the Living Seas dive. You'll see many good write-ups on other boards about this dive. Google it.

Since you guys are obviously Disney fanatics, I gotta ask: have you done a Disney cruise yet? If not, I recommend it. Last November, we did a 7-day cruise followed by 4 nights at DisneyWorld. Disney Cruise has it's own private island (Castaway Cay), where you can snorkel. There was even stingrays to snorkel with (it was closed our day there). Now why on earth would you think we're Disney fanatics?

Can't wait for Epcot! It's going to be a great dive, I think. Hopefully JW feels the same by then.

Seriously, we love DCL. We haven't done a week-long yet, but we've done a 3 night, 4 night, and hopefully another 3 night in May. I've done the stingray snorkel, but our daughter didn't really like it much. I thought they were cool.


Disney knows how to do service eh? We've done the 7 night western and eastern caribbean and loved em both. It's hard to get off the boat.Oh, it is REALLY hard to get off that boat.

jwdizney
09-09-2007, 19:23
I worked on the mask skills again this afternoon.. a WHOLE lot more comfortable.. amazing what a few hours of practice can do... as I contemplated the pool session this coming weekend, i remembered the swim test, so I made it a point to spend some time treading water, or as i like to call it, NOT DROWNING!.... i've found my 'duration' is better if i just 'dead man float'... i think I can go for hours, but it could be pretty boring!

i've also been swimming laps with mask/fins/snorkel. average 400-500 yards...

to me, these are pretty fundamental skills for safe and confident diving... at least, for me... in the mean time, I'm trying to sort out the benefits of back flotation vs jacket bc's and why the Zeagle stuff is so highly touted around this forum (besides the obvious relationship ST has with Zeagle...) are they really that good? and, is it true that back flotation bc's naturally tend to lean you forward on the surface? if a person is unconscious, wouldn't that be a bad thing?....

it's amazing to me... just a few weeks ago, I swore that scuba diving would never be something i'd be the least bit interested in.... but now, i'm starting to eagerly anticipate my checkout dives.....

there must have been a drug in the air tank in my Discover Scuba class....

jones-in for it.....

Vercingetorix
09-09-2007, 19:36
Are you doing NAUI, PADI, SDI, or SSI? I ask becauee requirements differ for the swim tests you describe below.


I i remembered the swim test, so I made it a point to spend some time treading water, or as i like to call it, NOT DROWNING!.... i've found my 'duration' is better if i just 'dead man float'... i think I can go for hours, but it could be pretty boring!For our NAUI water-tread, our face was NOT permitted to touch the water. We tread for 10 minutes.


i've also been swimming laps with mask/fins/snorkel. average 400-500 yards... For PADI, you need only 200 yards (no fins, mask, snorkel). Our NAUI distance was less.


in the mean time, I'm trying to sort out the benefits of back flotation vs jacket bc's and why the Zeagle stuff is so highly touted around this forum are they really that good? I did my OW with a Zeagle Brigade. If I was not a full-advocate of BP/W, I'll go with the Brigade. It's comfortable, fully-adjustable, and a rear-inflate. Great weight system and some pockets.
and, is it true that back flotation bc's naturally tend to lean you forward on the surface? if a person is unconscious, wouldn't that be a bad thing?....Ouch!..and you were doing so well to this point, too.

As I mentioned, I use a backplate/wing. If I FULLY inflate my wing and try to remain vertical, then I must fin to remain upright. If I inflate partially (and I found this to be true with the Brigade), you remain upright without finning. When inflated, you can also lean all the way back and float as if you're on an air mattress...very relaxing...I damned near fell asleep in OW while awaiting the other divers to swim out to our buoy before dropping on the platform.

So, answer to your question is yes an no.


it's amazing to me... just a few weeks ago, I swore that scuba diving would never be something i'd be the least bit interested in.... but now, i'm starting to eagerly anticipate my checkout dives.....

there must have been a drug in the air tank in my Discover Scuba class....

jones-in for it.....The same something is also pumped into the air conditioning system at the ScubaToys store. It makes you want to buy...buy...buy...

finflippers
09-09-2007, 19:52
"is it true that back flotation bc's naturally tend to lean you forward on the surface? "

My Dive Rite TransPac with wing did want to push me forward when on the surface until I put trim weights on my harness.

fire diver
09-09-2007, 20:03
Just got back home, and read about your success in the pool. GREAT JOB! Actually, if you keep that mentality, you go FAR in scuba. With doubles, deco tanks, etc. it all comes back down to practice, practice practice. We are trully land mamals, and non of this is natural to us. So practicing new skills until they feel natural is the number one thing.

Can't wait to hear how well you do in your open water class.

FD

YellowfinKunkfish
09-09-2007, 20:23
"is it true that back flotation bc's naturally tend to lean you forward on the surface? "

My Dive Rite TransPac with wing did want to push me forward when on the surface until I put trim weights on my harness.

I have a Zeagle Zena, and I do the same thing, put just a tiny bit of my weight in the back trim pockets, and I've never had a problem leaning toward the surface. And as someone else mentioned, they are great for swimming or floating on your back. I always do surface swims on my back, it's very relaxing!

finflippers
09-09-2007, 20:45
"is it true that back flotation bc's naturally tend to lean you forward on the surface? "

My Dive Rite TransPac with wing did want to push me forward when on the surface until I put trim weights on my harness.

I have a Zeagle Zena, and I do the same thing, put just a tiny bit of my weight in the back trim pockets, and I've never had a problem leaning toward the surface. And as someone else mentioned, they are great for swimming or floating on your back. I always do surface swims on my back, it's very relaxing!

I have heard others refer to trim pockets. Does your BC have pockets about waist level in the back? What I have is weights clipped to D rings on the harness it self running long ways up my back.

jwdizney
09-09-2007, 20:50
again, great encouragement! FD, welcome home!... I can't stop saying it, the support i'm getting from all of you is AWESOME!!

Rick, did you take your OW with a Brigade by choice, or was it because that's what the class offered? was it a ST class?.....

by the way,
I guess it's also official, our 17 y/o daughter is going to take the class with me! she's more like her mother when it comes to being a fish in water... i've been trying to coax her in to practicing with me, but to no avail. She's just about done with the study worksheets (we're doing PADI, by the way!) and seem to have a good grasp of the book stuff.

she's not worried at all about the pool or lake stuff, I guess that's what it's like for you 'naturals".....

Charlotte Smith
09-09-2007, 20:56
I can understand your fears; I do not like being on the surface in deep water, so waiting for the boat to pick us up is sometime unsettling.
Capt Hook I feel your pain! I hate to be left on the lake in deep water much less the ocean......That jaws movie really stuck in my head even though I know it is stupid I am still looking in the water every time...ho hum...I will grow up someday! NOT

Charlotte Smith
09-09-2007, 21:01
I worked on the mask skills again this afternoon.. a WHOLE lot more comfortable.. amazing what a few hours of practice can do... as I contemplated the pool session this coming weekend, i remembered the swim test, so I made it a point to spend some time treading water, or as i like to call it, NOT DROWNING!.... i've found my 'duration' is better if i just 'dead man float'... i think I can go for hours, but it could be pretty boring!

i've also been swimming laps with mask/fins/snorkel. average 400-500 yards...

to me, these are pretty fundamental skills for safe and confident diving... at least, for me... in the mean time, I'm trying to sort out the benefits of back flotation vs jacket bc's and why the Zeagle stuff is so highly touted around this forum (besides the obvious relationship ST has with Zeagle...) are they really that good? and, is it true that back flotation bc's naturally tend to lean you forward on the surface? if a person is unconscious, wouldn't that be a bad thing?....

it's amazing to me... just a few weeks ago, I swore that scuba diving would never be something i'd be the least bit interested in.... but now, i'm starting to eagerly anticipate my checkout dives.....

there must have been a drug in the air tank in my Discover Scuba class....

jones-in for it.....
Wear a Zeagle one time and you will see why....I am really proud of your accomplishments! My husband had ALOT of trouble clearing his mask and he ended up with a mask that has the purge in the nose...that was the only way he could master it. Keep up the good work!

jwdizney
09-09-2007, 21:07
Thanks Charlotte!
I guess i'm gonna have to try a Zeagle when I make my 'post certification' mecca to ST....i'm liking what I hear about the aeris atmos xt too... back inflation with a little bit of wraparound... honestly, my concern/fear is that it won't be comfortable on the surface.. but it sounds like laying back on an air mattress might be a good thing!:smiley20:

ixrayu
09-09-2007, 21:22
Way to go Mr Dizney!!!! I had to overcome a fear of the water also. However, I dove with hubby today and did better than the last time with my nervousness. Practice, practice is what I have to do. I've had the fear of drowning also. My 3 year old in swim classes swearsher teacher is trying to drown her. My fish of a hubby says you can tell whose daughter she is.
Good luck and I look forward to reading more of your posts.

jwdizney
09-09-2007, 21:30
Thanks Sherry! it's nice (if that's the appropriate term?) to find someone who shares my 'fear'.... feel free to contribute to my journey with your own experiences as well, experience is a great teacher!

jwdizney
09-10-2007, 21:15
I didn't get a chance to work in pool tonight, but some really good things happened anyway!.. first of all, our daugther, who's also preparing for the class, figured out the dive tables! she's nearly ready, with just one mor chapter and worksheet to complete before our classroom session wednesday.

I, on the other hand, received a box from the brown van today!!! as i've been overcoming and struggling with my fears of water, i've found it necessary to make the occasional "reward" purchase from ST to offset my anxiety! today, I got a new mask, TUSA M24, because my X-vision leaks constantly! it's a good mask, but don't fit my face well! the TUSA, on the other hand seems made for my face! i'll take it for a swim tomorrow and see how it does! I also got a BARE progressive stretch 3/2 wetsuit.. very nice!!! DISNEYMOM has a henderson, and it's sweet, but I tried the BARE on and it fits awesome! can't wait to strap a BC on over it! i got the yellow, of course, so, just in case, you can find me in the water!! never mind the 'yummie yellow' myth.. i wanna be find-able!!!

Of course, no ST box would be complete without something for DISNEYMOM, so she got a new flashlight and a dive knife, both things she needed!!!..

I guess today was a day off from my preparations and sort of a celebration of the journey so far...... i'm really gonna get a box when I get my OW!!!

Vercingetorix
09-11-2007, 02:13
Rick, did you take your OW with a Brigade by choice, or was it because that's what the class offered? was it a ST class?..... By choice. ST had quite a few to offer. I'd heard good things about the Brigade and went looking for one in their pool area. Used it at the pool and lake. I've since switched to BP/W for AOW and Rescue and fun diving.



I guess it's also official, our 17 y/o daughter is going to take the class with me! she's more like her mother when it comes to being a fish in water... i've been trying to coax her in to practicing with me, but to no avail. She's just about done with the study worksheets (we're doing PADI, by the way!) and seem to have a good grasp of the book stuff.

she's not worried at all about the pool or lake stuff, I guess that's what it's like for you 'naturals".....Good for her!!!


I guess i'm gonna have to try a Zeagle when I make my 'post certification' mecca to ST....i'm liking what I hear about the aeris atmos xt too... back inflation with a little bit of wraparound... honestly, my concern/fear is that it won't be comfortable on the surface.. but it sounds like laying back on an air mattress might be a good thing!:smiley20:I actually tried a wrap-around when working with an OW class, because the DM mistakenly thought ST's policy was "No BP/W" with students. I hated it on the surface. When inflated, I felt squeezed to death. I couldn't wait to deflate and drop on the platform.

I, too, heard about the "back inflate makes you lean forward B.S." that was dispelled during my Discover Scuba when I wore back-inflate.

Oh, and I've not used trim weights on the rear to prevent leaning forward; haven't needed them.

YellowfinKunkfish
09-11-2007, 06:59
"is it true that back flotation bc's naturally tend to lean you forward on the surface? "

My Dive Rite TransPac with wing did want to push me forward when on the surface until I put trim weights on my harness.

I have a Zeagle Zena, and I do the same thing, put just a tiny bit of my weight in the back trim pockets, and I've never had a problem leaning toward the surface. And as someone else mentioned, they are great for swimming or floating on your back. I always do surface swims on my back, it's very relaxing!

I have heard others refer to trim pockets. Does your BC have pockets about waist level in the back? What I have is weights clipped to D rings on the harness it self running long ways up my back.

Yes, I have trim pockets in the back one on either side of my tank. They came with the BC. They are not ditchable though, so you can't put a lot of weight in them, I just put in one pound each.

greyzen
09-11-2007, 08:42
Way to go Disney!

We are all rooting for you and your discovery, I'm sure your going to love the check-out dives.

So in regards to the Zeagles, I finally got a chance to wear one. (My dive shop uses ScubaPro Knighthawk's)

Dude, I get it now... really.

So they wear like you have a backpack on... not like you are wearing a suitvest that weights 80lbs. Much more comfy in the front and the lower back. In regards to pushing your face in the water, it does... but if you have enough strength to stand upright when you walk you have plenty to lay back on the tank. Just pretend the tank is on a hard surface and lay against it like you would a log/etc.

If you ever work on Peak Buoyancy or have a Buoyancy-driven instructor, you'll figure out how to weight yourself so you're more natural at the surface!

Disneymom
09-11-2007, 09:07
He's doing great! I just hope the new mask fixes his leaking issues. Seems to fit much better.


Oh, and thanks for the knife and light, sweetie!! now I can see what I'm trying to cut myself loose from! :smiley36:

fire diver
09-11-2007, 09:08
Greyzen, next time you were a back-inflate, try not inflating it too much on the surface. You are only trying to float with your head above water. Over inflating almost any BC can cause you to go face forward.

But yeah, it IS nice to fully inflate my wing and lean back like it's a water recliner.

FD

jwdizney
09-11-2007, 09:33
But yeah, it IS nice to fully inflate my wing and lean back like it's a water recliner.

FD

I like the sound of that.... 'water recliner'.....

rfreddo
09-11-2007, 09:36
In the few weeks I've been on this forum, I've noticed that back inflate vs. jacket style is one of the hottest topics of debate. As a newbie myself (just completed OW this past weekend), I too was caught up in the "it's tough to stay verical on the surface with a back inflate" problem and was seriously considering that as a MAJOR factor in my BC purchasing decision.

A few days ago though I read a post that made a lot of sense to me, and has removed that "worry" as an issue. The poster basically said that if you plan to do your diving on the surface, in a vertical postion, than worry about it. If, however, you plan to do your diving beneath the surface in a more horizontal postion, focus on fit and comfort and don't worry about being able to stay upright on the surface. That post really hit home for me and made a lot of sense. This weekend in open water class, I watched my instructor and one of my fellow candidates do just fine with a back inflate, and, as far as I know, they never did any face-plants.

So now I'm convinced, the jacket style vs. back inflate debate is a good one, but in my mind, the issue is comfort and fit and freedom of movement, and has little, if anything, to do with being able to stay upright on the surface.

Just my 2 cents. By the way, thanks for all of the experienced folks who offer such words of wisdom to us newbies. Without you, it would be very easy to get caught up in the hype and focus on the wrong issues.

greyzen
09-11-2007, 09:37
Greyzen, next time you were a back-inflate, try not inflating it too much on the surface. You are only trying to float with your head above water. Over inflating almost any BC can cause you to go face forward.

But yeah, it IS nice to fully inflate my wing and lean back like it's a water recliner.

FD

Oh I'm good to go, I don't face-forward...I normally just put enough air into the bc to keep it from dragging me down. Once i figure out everyone is hanging out on the surface sometimes I'll fill it a little more so I can lay down and enjoy the wavey feeling

creggur
09-11-2007, 09:50
Congrats on your progress!!!!! Sounds like you are well on your way!!

I have had no problem at all being tipped forward in my Brigade, unless I actually try to roll forward... Heck you're going to spend most of the time under water anyway, and for me it's a lot easier to trim out in a back inflate.

The Zeagle's are popular because of the quality..I have a Brigade and honestly this thing is built like a tank. Just can't beat everything you get for the price. I have what I affectionately call a "Brigade LTD". I got the yellow weight thingies, rear trim pockets, and back pad..For me it's a perfect recreational BC..

Since I'm only a couple of hours up the road, hopefully me and Mrs. creggur will get to dive with you and Disneymom someday....

Good Luck!!!

fire diver
09-11-2007, 10:28
But yeah, it IS nice to fully inflate my wing and lean back like it's a water recliner.

FD

I like the sound of that.... 'water recliner'.....

Next time we go diving at Tenkiller (or where-ever) I'll let you try a dive with my doubles on. That's a water recliner with arm-rests during floating SI's.

jwdizney
09-11-2007, 10:41
[quote=fire diver;49636
Next time we go diving at Tenkiller (or where-ever) I'll let you try a dive with my doubles on. That's a water recliner with arm-rests during floating SI's.[/quote]
FAIR NUFF!.....

I appreciate all of you contributing to this tread as a newbie-to-be is going through the transition.... your comments, suggestions, wisdom and encouragement are certainly helping me, and hopfully helping other apprehensive newbies reading this .... KUDOS TO ALL!!

now,
RE the BC thing... i'm liking the concept and reviews if the ATMOS LX.. a hybrid back inflate with a little 'hug' of air around the edges... anybody experienced with this one... then, this zeagle brigade deserves some consideration as well......

Harshal
09-11-2007, 10:53
Jw - I am sure you will do great and I will see you at the Lake for the ST party....... now do they have check out dives on 9/23?

jwdizney
09-11-2007, 11:00
i'll be diving at Beaver Lake, ark. on 9/23

Harshal
09-11-2007, 11:28
i'll be diving at Beaver Lake, ark. on 9/23


Ohhh ok, my bad.... I thought you were getting certified with ST and they might be doing check out dives that weekend, since they have a ST party at CSSP.

DolphinDreams
09-11-2007, 14:23
Dizney, you are my role model. I'm scared too! REALLY scared of lakes, and since I live in the desert, that is where my OW will be.
It'll be probably about 3-4 weeks before we get to classes though since my boyfriend is out of town and if I don't drag him with me, he'll never go!

jwdizney
09-11-2007, 14:32
Dizney, you are my role model. I'm scared too! REALLY scared of lakes, and since I live in the desert, that is where my OW will be.
It'll be probably about 3-4 weeks before we get to classes though since my boyfriend is out of town and if I don't drag him with me, he'll never go!

Dolphin, i don't know about 'role model' but i'm certain i'm not the only person who's ever struggled with a fear of water! this whole process is really helping me a lot, plus, talking about it in this forum gives me 'strength' (for lack of a better word). please feel free to add your own comments and don't be shy about it! there are a lot of really supportive divers on this site with THOUSANDS of dives, yet they still offer support to us tadpoles.... and there's folks like you and me, looking for answers as we conquer our fears!... i'm really excited about getting certified, but there's still this big, dark, abyss between me and that C-card.... the OW dives!!!.....

and they're getting closer........but i'm getting stronger... i think.....

Splitlip
09-11-2007, 18:38
I can understand your fears; I do not like being on the surface in deep water, so waiting for the boat to pick us up is sometime unsettling.
Capt Hook I feel your pain! I hate to be left on the lake in deep water much less the ocean......That jaws movie really stuck in my head even though I know it is stupid I am still looking in the water every time...ho hum...I will grow up someday! NOT
LOL. Normal but irrational fear (unless you are wearing brightly colored fins:smiley2:)

Splitlip
09-11-2007, 18:53
Ok, so it’s 5 days until my classroom sessions. I’ve done the study and worksheets, feeling pretty confident in the book stuff.. BUT I remember my DS class and something that I didn’t deal very well with… Mask skills! (remember the fear of drowning?).. when I let the water in my mask, I had a major GASP reflex! Anticipating the pool and lake sessions, I figured I’d better work this out in advance, if possible… So, DISNEYMOM and I devised a plan. She put on her gear and got in the pool with me. (all this is in the shallow end, in about 3-4 feet of water). First of all, we kneel together in the water and I would breath off her octo. We stay down for a minute or two, just letting me get used to breathing underwater. Then I’d try letting small amounts of water in my mask, then clearing it. we repeated this several times until I felt comfortable with it. Then I devised a plan…

I stood in water about waist deep and, while breathing with a regulator, stuck my face in the water (no mask!). GASP!!!... it took me several tries before I got comfortable, but I did finally get comfortable. Then I added a twist. I stuck my face in the water without the regulator, recovered the reg, cleared it, then stayed until I was breathing normal, comfortably. After doing this a few times, I added another step. Put my face in the water, recover reg, clear it, breath normal, then put on mask and clear it!..... We’re getting somewhere!.. I then added even more to my exercise.. put face in water, recover reg, clear it, breath normal, put on mask, clear it, remove reg and switch to snorkel, clear it!... WOW, this is really working! Finally, after doing this a while, I was comfortable switching between reg and snorkel, mask or no mask, all while my face is in the water!

This was a good day!......i’ll continue to repeat these exercises every day (if possible) so that I am completely proficient in my mask skills, all the while, overcoming my fears….


Stay tuned………

It sounds like you are on the right track.
You must be completely comfortable breathing without a mask it really should be more than just second nature.
In your pool swim with fins snorkel and NO MASK. Dive and clear the snorkel without picking your head up from the water. Do this until becomes something you can do with out thinking about it.
Since you have access to a pool continue practicing with SCUBA after you are certified.
Good luck.

jwdizney
09-11-2007, 19:54
It sounds like you are on the right track.
You must be completely comfortable breathing without a mask it really should be more than just second nature.
In your pool swim with fins snorkel and NO MASK. Dive and clear the snorkel without picking your head up from the water. Do this until becomes something you can do with out thinking about it.
Since you have access to a pool continue practicing with SCUBA after you are certified.
Good luck.

Great idea, Splitlip! i've tried the snorkel alone a few times, just haven't practice my mask skills with it! i can put my mask on backwards and still keep the snorkel in place... appreciate you advice! Thanks!:smiley_scuba:

jwdizney
09-11-2007, 19:55
[quote=Splitlip;50055LOL. Normal but irrational fear (unless you are wearing brightly colored fins:smiley2:)[/quote]

wait a minute, i've got yellow zooms!!!!!

Splitlip
09-11-2007, 20:21
[quote=Splitlip;50055LOL. Normal but irrational fear (unless you are wearing brightly colored fins:smiley2:)

wait a minute, i've got yellow zooms!!!!![/quote]
Yum yum yellow...
Nah, just kidding.

Great idea on wearing the mask backwards to support the snorkel. Never thought of that.

When I was a kid, my father worked me with a snorkel, no mask. I did the same with my daughter. We had to hold the snorkel with a hand. That is why I suggested doing the drill with fins! :smiley36:

Seriously, this is an important skill. When you do your open water, they will make sure you can clear a flooded mask in a controlled environment. That does not compare to having a mask kicked off suddenly at depth. Another nice thing about being proficient at this skill is the ability to remove your mask, clean and adjust as needed while at depth.

quarrydiver
09-11-2007, 21:53
I've had my mask kicked off a couple of times and it's nice to be confident that you can get it back on!

jwdizney
09-12-2007, 14:05
Here it is! Day 1 of my journey to certified diver.. tonight, daughter and I are in for the classroom sessions... seems easy enough from the worksheets and quizzes presented in the PADI materials. even the DVD wasn't bad for an 'educational' DVD. I've got to say, I haven't spoke much of the classroom session in this thread, mainly because NO ONE HAS EVER DROWNED IN A CLASSROOM!!!.. plus, after studying the material, i picked up a couple of important perspectives. first, COMMON SENSE goes a long way in scuba diving. second, NEVER HOLD YOUR BREATH!!!.

We are told to expect 4-5 hours classroom time, and in the process we are going to practice assembling gear and go over what to expect in the pool sessions this coming sunday. by the way, PEOPLE HAVE DROWNED IN POOLS!! (the fear is never gone, only my ability to deal with it changes...)

i'll try and offer reflection on the classroom sessions afterwards.. but I expect to cruise through this part of the training....

the abyss draws nearer..............:smiley22:

fire diver
09-12-2007, 14:57
Don't worry about it, you'll do fine.

Just remember, when you get to that abyss.... You'll be wearing a BC and can just hover there without falling, or even rise above it.

Have fun!

FD

jwdizney
09-12-2007, 15:08
Don't about it, you'll do fine.

Just remember, when you get to that abyss.... You'll be wearing a BC and can just hover there without falling, or even rise above it.

Have fun!

FD
That's great FD! thanks!... I look forward to diving with you.. you should consider Dive Instructor........:smiley20:

dallasdivergirl
09-12-2007, 15:53
Here it is! Day 1 of my journey to certified diver.. tonight, daughter and I are in for the classroom sessions... seems easy enough from the worksheets and quizzes presented in the PADI materials. even the DVD wasn't bad for an 'educational' DVD. I've got to say, I haven't spoke much of the classroom session in this thread, mainly because NO ONE HAS EVER DROWNED IN A CLASSROOM!!!.. plus, after studying the material, i picked up a couple of important perspectives. first, COMMON SENSE goes a long way in scuba diving. second, NEVER HOLD YOUR BREATH!!!.

We are told to expect 4-5 hours classroom time, and in the process we are going to practice assembling gear and go over what to expect in the pool sessions this coming sunday. by the way, PEOPLE HAVE DROWNED IN POOLS!! (the fear is never gone, only my ability to deal with it changes...)

i'll try and offer reflection on the classroom sessions afterwards.. but I expect to cruise through this part of the training....

the abyss draws nearer..............:smiley22:

I like your attitude about the classroom work.

The pool for class is the same as the pool at home.

Just take smooth deep breaths and you will be fine.

jwdizney
09-13-2007, 09:52
It has begun. Classroom sessions last night for almost 5 hours!! That’s a good thing, actually. I think my daughter and I have selected a GREAT instruction group. They have no dive shop, don’t sell equipment, and don’t “endorse” any brands in particular. Their complete focus is on the training. And they do it well, at least from what I’ve seen and heard from DISNEYMOM and my own classroom experience in Discover Scuba and last night.

Anyway… if you’re considering certification, the classroom is a very important part of the training. Understanding the physiological effects of depth and pressure, how the equipment works, how to communicate with other divers, how to interact with the underwater environment, and how to react to problems all are very important to diver safety and this stuff is taught, in detail, in the PADI OW course. I can’t imagine just how much information must be omitted in the 2 hour resort courses, though I bet some are better than others. If you haven’t thoroughly been through this training, or if you feel you missed something, I strongly encourage you to refresh yourself.

NOW, hopefully, I haven’t scared any potential new divers away with all that knowledge stuff.. it really is fairly easy to grasp and the PADI materials are very detailed… the instructors, at least, our instructor was patient and made each topic understandable to EVERYONE in the classroom. We had the opportunity to take a quiz and review after each section, and a final exam, which is also reviewed. Any questions you don’t get correct are explained until you understand completely.

And best of all…. NOBODY DROWNED!!!.. in fact, our instructor reassured us that as long as we are “heads-up” in our procedures, training, and safety, we can eliminate virtually all risk of serious diving accidents… this was very encouraging….

Burger With Relish And Fries……(a riddle…. Who want to explain?…):smilie40:

By the way, I scored a 98 on my final exam…. :smiley32:

Next comes the pool on Sunday…. I think I’ll be practicing some more the next couple of days…..:smiley2:

Vercingetorix
09-13-2007, 11:14
Glad everything went well.

Now the fun begins. Since you're already comfortable in th water (and you've got a great dive buddy and coach in DisneyMom), thinks should go well. Just relax. Have fun.

98 on the final?? Well done, sir, well done.

jwdizney
09-13-2007, 15:41
When you do to Epcot, I'll volunteer to carry your bags. I've already told my wife the next time we're at Disney World, I'm doing the Living Seas dive. You'll see many good write-ups on other boards about this dive. Google it.

Since you guys are obviously Disney fanatics, I gotta ask: have you done a Disney cruise yet? If not, I recommend it. Last November, we did a 7-day cruise followed by 4 nights at DisneyWorld. Disney Cruise has it's own private island (Castaway Cay), where you can snorkel. There was even stingrays to snorkel with (it was closed our day there).


Disney knows how to do service eh? We've done the 7 night western and eastern caribbean and loved em both. It's hard to get off the boat.


(side note: you guys might not know this, but DISNEYMOM is a Certified Disney Vacation Planner, including DisneyWorld, DisneyLand, and Disney cruise lines!! (and Royal Caribbean, Carnival, Princess, Celebrity......etc.... www.magicaladventuretravel.com (http://www.magicaladventuretravel.com) ):smiley2:

Vercingetorix
09-13-2007, 16:13
(side note: you guys might not know this, but DISNEYMOM is a Certified Disney Vacation Planner, including DisneyWorld, DisneyLand, and Disney cruise lines!! (and Royal Caribbean, Carnival, Princess, Celebrity......etc.... www.magicaladventuretravel.com (http://www.magicaladventuretravel.com) )I run a travel agency. I'm working on my Disney College of Knowledge as is my wife. Thanks for the offer, though.:smiley2:

jwdizney
09-13-2007, 16:30
(side note: you guys might not know this, but DISNEYMOM is a Certified Disney Vacation Planner, including DisneyWorld, DisneyLand, and Disney cruise lines!! (and Royal Caribbean, Carnival, Princess, Celebrity......etc.... www.magicaladventuretravel.com (http://www.magicaladventuretravel.com) )I run a travel agency. I'm working on my Disney College of Knowledge as is my wife. Thanks for the offer, though.:smiley2:

College of Disney Knowledge great training! plus, you'll get the mouse-ear mortarboard hat when you graduate!.....

Vercingetorix
09-13-2007, 16:39
College of Disney Knowledge great training! plus, you'll get the mouse-ear mortarboard hat when you graduate!.....Don't forget the free trip to DisneyWorld. I hear they run ya ragged, so I'll plan a Disney Cruise to relax with afterwards.

coralcrazed
09-13-2007, 18:09
my biggest phobia is getting out of the water...:smiley2: and it happens every time i go diving.

jwdizney
09-13-2007, 20:01
my biggest phobia is getting out of the water...:smiley2: and it happens every time i go diving.


That's what I like about you guys!.. not once has anyone even mentioned anthing negative about diving, in spite of all the 'potential' for risk...

i'm beginning to believe that the safest way to be in the water is with scuba!.... ...

what about you guys sharing certification experiences and overcoming those 'unknowns' for the first time?

quarrydiver
09-14-2007, 08:03
When you practice and follow your training, you can handle problems as calmly as you do when you realize you don't have milk to finish your Mac n Cheese.

jwdizney
09-14-2007, 08:41
When you practice and follow your training, you can handle problems as calmly as you do when you realize you don't have milk to finish your Mac n Cheese.

good wisdom, quarry!... again,the word 'practice' ... seems to be a resounding theme here.....

fire diver
09-14-2007, 10:01
i'm beginning to believe that the safest way to be in the water is with scuba!.... ...


You're right on that one! When me dad found out I was solo diving, he got a bit mad at me for doing something so reckless. As he stated, he doesn't think anyone should even swim alone.

So I pulled out my gear and explained to him the safety, the redundancy, multiple cutting tools, multiple air sources, the ability (no choice really) to float in my wet suit if Ihad to remove all other gear. After that he felt a lot better about my diving.

FD

PS- I can't wait to read your OW reports when I get back from my cruise next week. PLease start it's own thread so I won't have to wade back through this to find it. :smiley20:

jwdizney
09-14-2007, 10:51
i'm beginning to believe that the safest way to be in the water is with scuba!.... ...


PS- I can't wait to read your OW reports when I get back from my cruise next week. PLease start it's own thread so I won't have to wade back through this to find it. :smiley20:

Good Idea, FD... might make it easier to find.... cruise eh?... i'm jealous!!!... we're cruisin again in May, i should have a whole new option on shore excursions.... scuba!

jwdizney
09-15-2007, 22:10
[quote=fire diver;52036
PS- I can't wait to read your OW reports when I get back from my cruise next week. PLease start it's own thread so I won't have to wade back through this to find it. :smiley20:[/quote]

new thread for the Pool Sessions:

http://forum.scubatoys.com/showthread.php?t=3621

dludwig
10-02-2007, 16:25
welcome to the "club" !!! Sounds like you're doing great :smiley20:

BuzzF117
10-02-2007, 16:31
I have learned some very important lessons. One is that you shouldn't try and lesson somebodies fears or dismiss them as nonsense as they may seem silly or odd to you but to the person with the fear they are very real. Example I have been trying to get my wife to get certified but she has talked herself out of it due to claustraphobia. She did great during her discover scuba class except for an ear clearing problem which she has gotten over.

It is a fear that is very real to her no matter how different her fear seems to me I have had to respect it no matter how badly I wanted her to be my dive buddy. I beleive in time as I log more dives she will become more comfortable with the concept of diving and will give it a try and become a very enthusiastic diver.


nuf said
Buzz

PrichDave
10-03-2007, 11:39
Once you get comfortable in the water - don't stop. Don't get rusty with your skills or you'll get nervous again. Once you get into the water get your head under as soon as you can and become one with the water. Most apprehension happens on the surface when you are part in the water and part in the air.
David

DZorn00
10-04-2007, 11:51
Once you get comfortable in the water - don't stop. Don't get rusty with your skills or you'll get nervous again. Once you get into the water get your head under as soon as you can and become one with the water. Most apprehension happens on the surface when you are part in the water and part in the air.
David

This is a big key, just like anything else if you stop, and get rusty there is more potential for errors. Just keep practicing, even if it is in your own backyard pool or the LDS.