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chewyjr15
09-12-2007, 16:35
picked up a steel hp 80 at sport chalet it was the right price, but when I turn the valve no air comes out is it empty? or does my first stage need to be connected to it? came with a cap and a boot too!

BSea
09-12-2007, 16:37
It doesn't have any air in it. You don't have to have a reg on a tank to release the air.

chewyjr15
09-12-2007, 16:43
ok so is this bad i cant get a fill untill i finish my Open water. IM going to use it for my check out dives

BSea
09-12-2007, 16:51
ok so is this bad i cant get a fill untill i finish my Open water. IM going to use it for my check out dives
It's a good idea to have a VIP for any tank that goes completely empty, especially if you don't know it's history. I know of 1 shop that won't fill a completely empty tank unless they give it a VIP.

Once a tank is empty, its possible for water to get into it, and since this is a steel tank, you should be extra careful.

chewyjr15
09-12-2007, 16:53
how do they perform a vip

MEL-DC Diver
09-12-2007, 16:57
Did they sell it to you with a current or new VIP? If so, take it back to them if there is no air in it, tell them you need them to give it another VIP and have them put at least a few lbs of air in it. It is nonsense for them to sell you a tank w/ a valve on and no air that has a current VIP.

Aussie
09-12-2007, 16:57
If its a brand new cylinder it doesnt need to be tested until 12 months. Thats how we do it here in Australia. Might be different there.

We also hydro our cylinders every 12 months whats the time frame there in the states?

Aussie

MEL-DC Diver
09-12-2007, 16:57
They take the valve off and look around. Takes no time at all - unless there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

MEL-DC Diver
09-12-2007, 16:58
If its a brand new cylinder it doesnt need to be tested until 12 months. Thats how we do it here in Australia. Might be different there.

We also hydro our cylinders every 12 months whats the time there in the states.

Aussie

5 years on the hydro, VIP every year.

Aussie
09-12-2007, 17:16
Every 5 years for Hydro..........mmmm Dont like that idea

Aussie

chewyjr15
09-12-2007, 18:35
ok so what do i do?

chewyjr15
09-12-2007, 18:38
just called them and they said the air that would be in it would not be enough to even feel less than 100 psi and not to worry about it. so should i just take their advice?

finflippers
09-12-2007, 18:50
Take it in to where you are getting certified and have them VIP and fill the tank. It will be sitting there and ready for you to use when it comes time for your diving.

chewyjr15
09-12-2007, 19:03
ok once i start my classes

in_cavediver
09-12-2007, 19:06
just called them and they said the air that would be in it would not be enough to even feel less than 100 psi and not to worry about it. so should i just take their advice?

No, don't take thier advice. 100psi is actually a lot of pressure. (my air tools run at 90psi for a frame of reference). Its definitely something you can feel. You want/need this pressure to ensure no moist air creeps back in the tank. Also, any shop worth a #$&$ will balk at an empty cylinder. I would expect at least a small bit of air.

Take it back, demand a proper inspection and at least 400-500psi in it. (my opinion though is a full fill).

CompuDude
09-12-2007, 19:12
Any new tank should be sold full. Maybe that's just me, but it's only logical.

I'd take it back and have them check it to be sure it's ok and then fill it. Since it's Sport Chalet, if they give you a hard time, point out it hasn't been used yet, and threaten to return it.

That said... are you sure that's the right tank for you? The Asahi tanks that Sport Chalet sells don't have a great rep. They're cheap, though...

finflippers
09-12-2007, 19:19
ok once i start my classes

If you have already signed up for a class they should not have any problems filling the tank and letting it sit there until your class. on a steel tank you don't want it sitting there empty the humidity in the air can start rust in the tank. you need dry compressed air put in the tank.

chewyjr15
09-12-2007, 19:41
well the asahi tank i got was a good price, what is wrong with them? you think my lds will have a problem filling it or atleast putting some air in it or not? the reason it wasnt sold full was becuase im not yet certified

meesier42
09-12-2007, 19:45
sounds like yet another crazy sell from Sport Chalet. Why did you go for a HP 80, I just figure if I am going to pay for steel I am going to go with the HP100.

There is NO requirement to be a certified diver to get an air fill, hence the reason paintballers can get air fills. They can't tell you what you are or are not allowed to do with the air. Hell there isn't even a requirement to have a certification to dive. Just can't get a dive boat to take you out for insurance reasons.

Flatliner
09-12-2007, 19:50
Chewyjr15,

I TOTALLY agree with the consensus. Selling you an empty STEEL tank is total BS. They owe you a VIP and a fill. At least a fill to 500 psi for all of the reasons mentioned above.

I understand the reasons to buy an HP80. Not everyone wants a monster tank. (Although I do)

CompuDude
09-12-2007, 20:04
Asahi's are extraordinarily heavy, and the coating used on the exterior isn't as durable as the finishes on Fabers and PST/Worthingtons.

They're also notorious for having rusting issues on the inside. And notorious for failing their first hydros.

Sadly, you get what you paid for.

chewyjr15
09-12-2007, 20:26
well when i compared it to an al 80 it felt 5 pounds lighter or more, plus i will probably sell it off before hydro for an hp100. Also just went to my LDS and they put 90 lbs in it, and said to bring it and use it on my pool day, and checkout dives.

CompuDude
09-13-2007, 00:16
By heavy I meant in the water, but sure:

Catalina S80 Al.80 (http://www.catalinacylinders.com/scuba.html): 31.6 lbs (empty)
Genesis HP80 (http://www.genesisscuba.com/product.php?product_id=201): 30.9 lbs (empty)
Worthington HP80 (http://www.xsscuba.com/tank_steel_specs.html): 27.7 lbs (empty)

The difference in negative (or positive) buoyancy comes on when comparing the tank's empty weight (buoyancy) in the water:

Catalina S80 Al.80 (http://www.catalinacylinders.com/scuba.html): +4 lbs (empty) (+2.6 @500 psi)
Genesis HP80 (http://www.genesisscuba.com/product.php?product_id=201): -6.1 lbs (at 500 psi)
Worthington HP80 (http://www.xsscuba.com/tank_steel_specs.html): -3.0 lbs (empty)

A little harder to compare since full specs aren't available for all tanks, but it's clear just how darned heavy the Asahi's are. Heavy can be good... but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.

My advice: Dive the heck out of that tank for a couple of years (at the most) and then educate yourself about what the market options are, determine what's ideal for you in a tank, and then sell the Asahi. With any luck, you'll make a decent amount, and put that money towards a tank with more favorable buoyancy characteristics... or the same, if you decide that's what you really want. But let some other unlucky soul risk the future hydro failure. I have a number of friends who have done this quite successfully, and been pretty happy as a result.

ScuberDoober
09-13-2007, 02:20
Tanks can't be shipped filled or at least that is my understanding. Some people buy tanks for EAN and need to have them O2 cleaned.

MEL-DC Diver
09-13-2007, 10:22
Tanks can't be shipped filled or at least that is my understanding. Some people buy tanks for EAN and need to have them O2 cleaned.

Well, yes and no. They wouldn't be able to ship them with a full fill or anything approaching it, but ST sent me an HP 100 with valve on, VIP sticker attached, and a trickle of air. Not enough to register on a pressure gauge, but enough so that you could crack the valve and hear it/feel it.

chewyjr15
09-13-2007, 11:22
thanks for the help but there is about 20 pounds in it now so its just sitting in my room ready for its first adventure.

CompuDude
09-13-2007, 11:48
Tanks can't be shipped filled or at least that is my understanding. Some people buy tanks for EAN and need to have them O2 cleaned.

Well, yes and no. They wouldn't be able to ship them with a full fill or anything approaching it, but ST sent me an HP 100 with valve on, VIP sticker attached, and a trickle of air. Not enough to register on a pressure gauge, but enough so that you could crack the valve and hear it/feel it.

Well, yes and no. ;)

It's against DOT regulations to ship tanks pressurized via air shipment with more than a certain amount of gas in them.

SOP at many places is to ship empty with the valve off, or nearly empty (a few hundred PSI max).

I will say that one time I ordered a [brand new] tank over the 'net (NOT ScubaToys), and it arrived FULL. Surprised the H#$% out of me. I believe it was shipped via ground, however, so maybe not as bad as it first seemed. *shrug*