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snagel
12-28-2010, 05:56
Is it just me or does anybody else think this is odd???

Obama calls Eagles owner to congratulate him for signing Vick - Shutdown Corner - NFL* - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Obama-calls-Eagles-owner-to-congraulate-him-for-?urn=nfl-300632)

Does our president not have anything better to do, but call up NFL coaches and let them know they are doing a good job?

Why isn't he calling the Giant's organization and telling Manning, hang in there better luck next time.

What's the motives here?

Snagel

Vercingetorix
12-28-2010, 05:59
Richard Nixon called the Redskins coach and suggested specific plays he should run.

Meh. Nothing new here.

PepeDiver
12-28-2010, 08:18
I'd be much more impressed with it had the call come right after he was signed. Doing it after Vick has shown that he can still play football is much more of a political move than a statement of appreciation.

Straegen
12-28-2010, 09:23
Had Vick punched his wife, he would be in the same boat. Had Vick shot someone, still playing. Had he bet on a game, he would have never been on the field again.

Kill some dogs for sport and come out the other side smelling like a rose... I want to believe in repentance and truly paying for a persons crimes but in this case being a dog guy I have a REAL hard time letting this one go even though he did his time and owned up to it.

As for Obama, just as soon he kept his nose out of stuff like this regardless of how well intentioned he may have been on the matter.

Vercingetorix
12-28-2010, 09:43
When Vick was convicted, I was managing another travel agency. One of the employees could not understand why Vick should be punished, "...because, after all, it's just dogs." Being the V.P. of the Humane Society here in Irving, I had a real problem with her. She thought Vick was being punished because he is black.

I, too, want to believe in repentance and redemption. However, in Vick's case, he's sorry alright...sorry he was caught. If he wasn't, he'd still be doing it. He's garbage.

alpha
12-28-2010, 11:49
Had Vick shot someone, he would have never been on the field again.

being a dog guy I have a REAL hard time letting this one go even though he did his time and owned up to it.

I'm primarily a carnivore...So I have a different view:::Google Image Result for http://www.mccullagh.org/db9/vietnam/cooked-dog-meat.jpg (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mccullagh.org/db9/vietnam/cooked-dog-meat.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mccullagh.org/photo/vietnam/cooked-dog-meat&h=512&w=768&sz=161&tbnid=44CciWInK5A3vM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=142&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpicture%2Bof%2Bcooked%2Bdog&zoom=1&q=picture+of+cooked+dog&hl=en&usg=__0eRrF-BbFfYHDR9II32U_5_MFnE=&sa=X&ei=DR4aTcixHMH_lgeHwehP&ved=0CBkQ9QEwAQ)

I could not find any pictures of cooked human...........Looks like there is more of a difference in your two examples (dog vs. human) than you think... At least to most of the world's population.




Mr. Prezzz's call......IMO just political hand shaking/advertising/attracting voters/etc. etc. etc. Unless of course I see the two of them serving the above dish at suppertime.

Straegen
12-28-2010, 13:47
I'm primarily a carnivore...So I have a different viewI hear that argument but making any higher functioning animal fight for a persons pleasure is simply wrong on a fundamental level. If you need to eat to survive, I can understand.

As an aside domesticated dogs are unique in our history. They are born with the ability to understand us on a basic level and read our faces and eyes to gleam our intentions. If cows could do that, I wouldn't eat them either.

Rileybri
12-28-2010, 14:02
I tell Terrie Frankona what to do all the time! he has never listened to me.....

TJDiver
12-28-2010, 14:08
I hear that argument but making any higher functioning animal fight for a persons pleasure is simply wrong on a fundamental level. If you need to eat to survive, I can understand.

As an aside domesticated dogs are unique in our history. They are born with the ability to understand us on a basic level and read our faces and eyes to gleam our intentions. If cows could do that, I wouldn't eat them either.

Couldn't agree more. Even if dog was an accepted dish here in the U.S., I would still take issue with the fights. I've seen video footage of actual dog fights, and it's a very perverse thing. There's a big difference between substinence, and sick, perverse behavior. Anyone that takes pleasure in putting another animal thru such a thing, has real mental issues IMO.

BSea
12-28-2010, 15:04
I hear that argument but making any higher functioning animal fight for a persons pleasure is simply wrong on a fundamental level. If you need to eat to survive, I can understand.

As an aside domesticated dogs are unique in our history. They are born with the ability to understand us on a basic level and read our faces and eyes to gleam our intentions. If cows could do that, I wouldn't eat them either.I also agree 100% with Straegen on this issue. I think Vick should have been punished. He has however paid his debt. Now, I don't know if he's really changed or not, but the perception is that he's a better person having served his time, and is still doing community service for animal rights organizations. I don't know if he's still required to do it or not. I think time will tell if he's really changed.

As far as Obama placing a publicized phone call to him. I'll just say when he calls Rothlesburger and congratulates him on being a better person, then I'll believe he really means that he's happy for the person. I think the real truth is he sees Vicks popularity rising, and want's his name along side Vick's. Exactly how many elector votes does Pennsylvania have again?

Vercingetorix
12-28-2010, 16:46
Our humane society rescued a dog that was used as a "bait dog" to train fighting dogs. These are dogs judged to be not aggressive enough for the dog ring. So, they are used to teach the fighting dogs to attack.

In the Hispanic culture of Texas, dog and cock figting are considered part of the culture. Dog fighting is just wrong. To those who claim that, because I'm not part of that culture I wouldn't understand, I say, "I am a better human being than you." Is that statement politically incorrect? Yes, it is and I don't give a d*mn.

BRsnow
12-28-2010, 18:53
I also agree 100% with Straegen on this issue. I think Vick should have been punished. He has however paid his debt. Now, I don't know if he's really changed or not, but the perception is that he's a better person having served his time, and is still doing community service for animal rights organizations. I don't know if he's still required to do it or not. I think time will tell if he's really changed.

As far as Obama placing a publicized phone call to him. I'll just say when he calls Rothlesburger and congratulates him on being a better person, then I'll believe he really means that he's happy for the person. I think the real truth is he sees Vicks popularity rising, and want's his name along side Vick's. Exactly how many elector votes does Pennsylvania have again?

Big Ben was never charged, he got away with rape, why would some congratulate that? that would be like congratulating OJ.....

BRsnow
12-28-2010, 19:02
Our humane society rescued a dog that was used as a "bait dog" to train fighting dogs. These are dogs judged to be not aggressive enough for the dog ring. So, they are used to teach the fighting dogs to attack.

In the Hispanic culture of Texas, dog and cock figting are considered part of the culture. Dog fighting is just wrong. To those who claim that, because I'm not part of that culture I wouldn't understand, I say, "I am a better human being than you." Is that statement politically incorrect? Yes, it is and I don't give a d*mn.


Peta feels the same way about hunting and would like to make it illegal as well. I am not much for dog fighting seems cruel and pointless to me, but did attend a bull fight and watched friends dine on dog in China. Some people like MMA fights as well. I also have seen how quickly dogs become wild when strayed, so it is not my cup of tea, but I understand how some people see dogs as pets and others as property, just as people see deer as bambie. It is not part of US culture and has no place here...BR

SEMO Scuba
12-28-2010, 20:07
I think Vick is a d*ck and thought so even before he got caught for dog fighting. My opinion of him has not improved. He may have served his time but you can't change a persons fundamental personality.

Splitlip
12-28-2010, 21:53
Yeah, Obama blew it with this one. Most Western Societies abhor the type of conduct Vick was condemned for. The average American feels the same as well. Obama shot himself in the foot. Make no mistake, when a Politician does something like this, he is reaching out to continuant's. NFL fans? Dog fighters? IDK.

But my liberal friends who have not been turned off these last couple years (right or wrong) have kissed Obama goodbye. Yes, there is the First Dog, but now they wonder what abuse that animal may be enduring.

IJS. So far out of touch with the the world. This Michael Vick thing is huge! Grandma, the business owner down the street, the tea bagger around the corner etc all abhor Vick. And our National leader does this? Hello....gives me pause...most of America...to whom is he reaching out?

Davetowz
12-28-2010, 22:34
I actually despise almost all pro athletes. There are a select few who should be permitted to add to the gene pool, most should dive deep on 100 % o2, at least 60 ffw.

Vercingetorix
12-29-2010, 06:17
I actually despise almost all pro athletes. There are a select few who should be permitted to add to the gene pool, most should dive deep on 100 % o2, at least 60 ffw.

There are a few good ones, such as Troy Aikman and Emmit Smith, who give back to the community. Then there are the Vicks of the world. A lot of the over-the-top dipsticks are in pro basketball. Ghetto attitude? Maybe.

BSea
12-29-2010, 09:27
Big Ben was never charged, he got away with rape, why would some congratulate that? that would be like congratulating OJ.....That was the point I was trying to make. Obama used that phone call for political ends, nothing more. And I'm not only knocking Obama on this. It happens all the time in politics. Presidents (and other politicians) surround themselves with the winners. I can't seem to recall a time that the last place team in the NFL was invited to the White House?

jans
12-29-2010, 10:22
Yeah, Obama blew it with this one. Most Western Societies abhor the type of conduct Vick was condemned for. The average American feels the same as well. Obama shot himself in the foot. Make no mistake, when a Politician does something like this, he is reaching out to continuant's. NFL fans? Dog fighters? IDK.

But my liberal friends who have not been turned off these last couple years (right or wrong) have kissed Obama goodbye. Yes, there is the First Dog, but now they wonder what abuse that animal may be enduring.

IJS. So far out of touch with the the world. This Michael Vick thing is huge! Grandma, the business owner down the street, the tea bagger around the corner etc all abhor Vick. And our National leader does this? Hello....gives me pause...most of America...to whom is he reaching out?

IMO, he is reaching out to those who believe Vick was punished because he is black. He needs to keep the support of those who insured his election.

alpha
12-29-2010, 11:20
IMO M. Vick has way over paid his dues to the members of society in the U.S. who are opposed to watching 4 legged doggy animals fight in a ring.

Of course, 1/2 of this thread topic is old news. Legally vick has paid his debt to society in the U.S. in full. I actually think if the Prezzz is sincere, congratulating him on his comeback was a good thing.
The old news part is the animal involvement that has not occurred since his debt was paid. I'm amazed at how hot people are on this topic.

P.S. I have never watched, nor do I presently plan to watch dog or chicken fights. I however, believe people change with time/experiences (unlike some believe) so I cannot guarantee.

1.

Kill some dogs for sport and come out the other side smelling like a rose...


2.
I hear that argument but making any higher functioning animal fight for a persons pleasure is simply wrong on a fundamental level.

3.domesticated dogs. They are born with the ability to understand us on a basic level.

4.
I've seen video footage of actual dog fights. Anyone that takes pleasure in putting another animal thru such a thing, has real mental issues IMO.

1. Wrong:::Vick came out far far far from "Smelling like a Rose."

2. Disagree:::We in the U.S. routinely pay higher functioning animals than dogs to fight in rings for a persons pleasure...AKA::.A.)Boxing-(5meter square ring)where it's legal in the U.S. for 2 even higher functioning animals to attempt to knock the other unconscious with death occurring occasionally. (B) Football (300 by 160ft field) Similar attempts to "knock-out"/injure the opposing teams players with paralysis of players being observed on national TV in the U.S. (C) Kickboxing.....RISKING DEATH FOR A PERSONS VIEWING PLEASURE---(1) Drag racing/Car racing/Car demolition derby.etc. (2)Downhill skiing as in the olympics.(3) etc. etc. etc

3.Disagree because:::WE ARE THE HIGHEST FUNCTIONING ANIMALS. So, if highest functioning animals are the essence for determining avoidance of conflicts that may result in death/injury:::Humans should be exposed to the least possible risky situations and we should not allow via paying nor watching the events where they are at risk of injury/death in or on U.S. TV.

4. Disagree as::: WE ARE ANOTHER ANIMAL. Humans are animals and I doubt you really agree since I bet you have watched Football/Boxing/Kickboxing/ or Nascar racing on TV. I have watched animals battle in those arenas on national TV along with the majority of the U.S.; with full knowledge that injury and death may result at any moment that I'm watching it on TV. Either greater than 50 % of the U.S. has real mental issues or....the statement is invalid as greater than 50% of the U.S. people watch these type events on TV & would now make the mental issues = to the normal mental state...Thus we are all normal when watching animals compete against animals (humans included as animals).
__________________________________________________ ___________________

Please all of the above....Save the animals...Eliminate Pee Wee & high school & college & pro (poor mr. Vick thought all animals ultimate goal were to compete for glory/status/money/success due to::: this horrible society in the U.S. brainwashing him from youth) Football programs, eliminate youth involement in boxing, eliminate all sports where injury/death may result to all animals.

Prohibit TV broadcasting of any events where animals may be killed/hurt/or injured in the U.S. Ban football/car racing/drag racing/boxing etc. on TV

Pass the greens please ...:smiley2::smiley2::smiley2:

TJDiver
12-29-2010, 12:02
alpha...there's a big difference between "competing" and training an animal to kill another for the sole benefit for sick, twisted f*cks to watch. These dogs are not "competing"...they are fighting to the death or severe immobilization. There is also a REALLY big difference between the potential for injury or death during an activity, and the ultimate goal of an activity being severe injury and/or death. Sorry dude...but, you ain't even close with your justifications.

Splitlip
12-29-2010, 12:19
alpha...there's a big difference between "competing" and training an animal to kill another for the sole benefit for sick, twisted f*cks to watch. These dogs are not "competing"...they are fighting to the death or severe immobilization. There is also a REALLY big difference between the potential for injury or death during an activity, and the ultimate goal of an activity being severe injury and/or death. Sorry dude...but, you ain't even close with your justifications.

+1.

Furthermore, I don't believe anyone forces prize fighters to, well, fight.

inventor
12-29-2010, 12:29
I've always found that people that aren't good to animals, aren't good at being people.

Vercingetorix
12-29-2010, 13:23
Alpha,

http://alrich.org/cresswga/junk/obvious_troll.jpg

alpha
12-29-2010, 13:39
alpha... Sorry dude...but, you ain't even close with your justifications.

WRONG Again:::No (plural) "justifications" were listed. Where too are you reading??? Of what do you wish for a justification for whom or of what? Maybe I could help you conjure one up...:smiley20:



IMO M. Vick has way over paid his dues to the members of society in the U.S. who are opposed to watching 4 legged doggy animals fight in a ring.

Of course, 1/2 of this thread topic is old news. Legally vick has paid his debt to society in the U.S. in full. I actually think if the Prezzz is sincere, congratulating him on his comeback was a good thing.
The old news part is the animal involvement that has not occurred since his debt was paid. I'm amazed at how hot people are on this topic.

P.S. I have never watched, nor do I presently plan to watch dog or chicken fights. I however, believe people change with time/experiences (unlike some believe) so I cannot guarantee.



1. Wrong:::Vick came out far far far from "Smelling like a Rose."

2. Disagree:::We in the U.S. routinely pay higher functioning animals than dogs to fight in rings for a persons pleasure...AKA::.A.)Boxing-(5meter square ring)where it's legal in the U.S. for 2 even higher functioning animals to attempt to knock the other unconscious with death occurring occasionally. (B) Football (300 by 160ft field) Similar attempts to "knock-out"/injure the opposing teams players with paralysis of players being observed on national TV in the U.S. (C) Kickboxing.....RISKING DEATH FOR A PERSONS VIEWING PLEASURE---(1) Drag racing/Car racing/Car demolition derby.etc. (2)Downhill skiing as in the olympics.(3) etc. etc. etc

3.Disagree because:::WE ARE THE HIGHEST FUNCTIONING ANIMALS. So, if highest functioning animals are the essence for determining avoidance of conflicts that may result in death/injury:::Humans should be exposed to the least possible risky situations and we should not allow via paying nor watching the events where they are at risk of injury/death in or on U.S. TV.

4. Disagree as::: WE ARE ANOTHER ANIMAL. Humans are animals and I doubt you really agree since I bet you have watched Football/Boxing/Kickboxing/ or Nascar racing on TV. I have watched animals battle in those arenas on national TV along with the majority of the U.S.; with full knowledge that injury and death may result at any moment that I'm watching it on TV. Either greater than 50 % of the U.S. has real mental issues or....the statement is invalid as greater than 50% of the U.S. people watch these type events on TV & would now make the mental issues = to the normal mental state...Thus we are all normal when watching animals compete against animals (humans included as animals).
__________________________________________________ ___________________

Please all of the above....Save the animals...Eliminate Pee Wee & high school & college & pro (poor mr. Vick thought all animals ultimate goal were to compete for glory/status/money/success due to::: this horrible society in the U.S. brainwashing him from youth) Football programs, eliminate youth involement in boxing, eliminate all sports where injury/death may result to all animals.

Prohibit TV broadcasting of any events where animals may be killed/hurt/or injured in the U.S. Ban football/car racing/drag racing/boxing etc. on TV

Pass the greens please ...:smiley2::smiley2::smiley2:

SEMO Scuba
12-29-2010, 13:53
Vick may have paid his dues to the legal system, but to the general public he got off very light. Humans have a choice whether they want to compete in sports that put them at risk for injury or death. Defenseless animals do not. I agree with TJ that those that would get pleasure from dog fighting are mentally deficient. Inventor is correct too about these type of people. I will never consider forgiving Vick for the dog fighting anymore than I would consider forgiving a child molester just because he served his legal sentence.

A turd is still a turd even after you flush it.

divingmedic
12-29-2010, 14:58
I actually despise almost all pro athletes. There are a select few who should be permitted to add to the gene pool, most should dive deep on 100 % o2, at least 60 ffw.

I feel the same way, they get 50k a game for scratching their balls and I get 50k a year for saving lives.

Splitlip
12-29-2010, 16:18
Alpha,

http://alrich.org/cresswga/junk/obvious_troll.jpg

You remember this thread which I assumed to be a troll as well.

http://forum.scubatoys.com/st-hot-topics-118/help-smart-beautiful-daughter-plans-marry-poor-u-s-foot-soldier-30643/

Splitlip
12-29-2010, 16:29
IMO, he is reaching out to those who believe Vick was punished because he is black. He needs to keep the support of those who insured his election.

Sadly you may be right.

It's unfortunate that even today people still make decisions based along racial or religious lines, instead of studying the facts.

YouTube - Howard Stern - 2008-10-01 - Sal Interviews "Obama Supporters" in Harlem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5p3OB6roAg)

BRsnow
12-29-2010, 18:06
I don't think anyone cares that call was made outside of the far right anyways...if the economy is good is two years, he gets re-elected, if not probably not. The cycle is pretty simple over the 100 years of presidential elections. As far as judging people, I have felt that the mistakes I have made in the past, I have learned from and it has made me a better person... I am not worthy of passing judgement on others, I will leave that to all of the people who have a clean plate...BR

snagel
12-30-2010, 07:58
Wow...I started this thread because I thought it was odd what Obama was doing. I actually skimmed over the "Vick Issue" because I figured people were sick and tired of hearing/talking about that. Obviously, not.....honestly, my belief is that if Vick had not been caught he would still be involved in this. I'd like to think that people can learn and move forward, but I'm guessing that Vick is probably more upset that he got caught than what he did. He probably had no idea that "this - dog fighting" was really that big of deal.

Snagel

Vercingetorix
12-30-2010, 08:12
my belief is that if Vick had not been caught he would still be involved in this. I'd like to think that people can learn and move forward, but I'm guessing that Vick is probably more upset that he got caught than what he did. He probably had no idea that "this - dog fighting" was really that big of deal.


True, dat. Because he got caught.

BSea
12-30-2010, 10:19
I don't think anyone cares that call was made outside of the far right anyways...if the economy is good is two years, he gets re-elected, if not probably not. The cycle is pretty simple over the 100 years of presidential elections. Unfortunately that's true. It's too bad that most voters can't look beyond the last few months before an election. If they have food on the table, gas in the car, and HD TV, then they assume everything is fine. Forget the fact that our economy is sinking in red ink that someday all that debt will have to be paid by all of us.



As far as judging people, I have felt that the mistakes I have made in the past, I have learned from and it has made me a better person... I am not worthy of passing judgement on others, I will leave that to all of the people who have a clean plate...BRIt's true, all of us have made mistakes, and hopefully have learned from them to some degree. I don't think we have to judge him. I just know I'd never leave my dog with him.


Wow...I started this thread because I thought it was odd what Obama was doing. I actually skimmed over the "Vick Issue" because I figured people were sick and tired of hearing/talking about that. Obviously, not.....honestly, my belief is that if Vick had not been caught he would still be involved in this. I'd like to think that people can learn and move forward, but I'm guessing that Vick is probably more upset that he got caught than what he did. He probably had no idea that "this - dog fighting" was really that big of deal.

SnagelI agree that it was very odd. But I think it's nothing more than posturing by Obama. Probably not his best move, but in 2 years, nobody will remember anyway. (see above).

As far as people being tired of the "Vick Issue", I think that animal lovers (me included) will always feel that he got off light, and will probably never truly believe he's changed. Mainly because it's so hard to believe that anyone would do that in the 1st place. Plus we don't know him personally.

Let's face it, we've become so jaded when people talk on interviews. All we get are sound bits to make the person look good. So any interview Vick does about his "Problem", pretty much falls on deaf ears except for his supporters.

Vercingetorix
12-30-2010, 10:47
So any interview Vick does about his "Problem", pretty much falls on deaf ears except for his supporters.

And he has supporters only because he can score points, not because he's a kind, warm human being. If people are jaded, it is because of this. We value players, that can get "our team" to the Super Bowl or some other worthless event.

Splitlip
12-30-2010, 11:14
True, dat. Because he got caught.

Like the penitent husband who says to his wife "Honey I swear..if I knew you were gonna find out about that hooker, I wouldn't have done it."

bigman241
12-30-2010, 11:23
I say he is trying to pull in the young black vote, cause he is going to need it.

FFDiver
12-30-2010, 11:42
To me he did not pay enough. He should have been put in the ring with a bunch of dogs and let them try to fight him and see what he thinks after a few chunk of meat were ripped out of his a@@!!! As others have stated he is sorry he got caught!!! As far as Obama why not call other teams and players not doing well or have been hurt or even helping some worthy charity cause. No as becuase it would not attract enough attention to his personal agenda. Hopefully America will wake up in 2012....

Davetowz
12-30-2010, 23:47
True, dat. Because he got caught.
You can take em out of, but can't take it out of them....