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Vercingetorix
02-27-2011, 07:03
Words Of Wisdom from Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch, is part drill instructor, and part standup comic (Thunder Ranch is a firearms training facility in Arizona ).

Here are a few of his observation on tactics, firearms, self defense and life as we know it in the civilized world.
"The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win and cheat if necessary."

"Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way.."

"Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. You may get killed with your own gun, but he'll have to beat you to death with it, cause it's going to be empty."

"If you're not shootin', you should be loadin' If you're not loadin', you should be movin', if you're not movin', someone's gonna cut your head off and put it on a stick."

"When you reload in low light encounters, don't put your flashlight in your back pocket.. If you light yourself up, you'll look like an angel or the tooth fairy... And you're gonna be one of 'em pretty soon."

"Do something. It may be wrong, but do something."

"Shoot what's available, as long as it's available, until something else becomes available."

"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for."

"Don't shoot fast, unless you also shoot good.."

"You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or use any other word you think will work, but I've found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much the universal language."

"You have the rest of your life to solve your problems. How long you live depends on how well you do it."

"You cannot save the planet but you may be able to save yourself and your family."

"Thunder Ranch will be here as long as you'll have us or until someone makes us go away, and either way, it will be exciting."

More Excellent Gun Wisdom.......
The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.

1. Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

2. If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

3. I carry a gun cause a cop is too heavy.

4. When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.

5. A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him 'Why do you carry a 45?' The Ranger responded, 'Because they don't make a 46.'

6. An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity.

7. The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented on his wearing his sidearm. 'Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you expecting trouble?' 'No ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle.'

8. Beware of the man who only has one gun, because he probably knows how to use it very well.

'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

A people that values its privileges above its principles will soon lose both.

navyhmc
02-27-2011, 07:17
What gun is the best? The one you shoot well.
4 well aimed .32's will still beat 4 .45's that miss.
You don't have to shoot first or fast as long as you can whoot well.

Straegen
02-27-2011, 09:53
Best advice I got for carrying a gun. Always take care where a round is placed because hitting a bystander is often more likely than hitting an attacker. It is why big grain rounds are not preferable to me in a home invasion scenario. Sheetrock doesn't stop bullets and I don't want to shoot my neighbors.

Something like 10% of the rounds fired by police in action hit their intended target and these are trained professionals. Wonder what an untrained person shoots?

ScubaAl
02-27-2011, 14:56
Focus on the front sight.

scubagirlj
02-27-2011, 15:15
Focus on the front sight.
the same as 'never hold your breath' while diving!

Splitlip
02-27-2011, 15:40
Remember: Never "shoot to kill". Shoot to stop.

Understand?

fire diver
02-27-2011, 15:42
Best advice I got for carrying a gun. Always take care where a round is placed because hitting a bystander is often more likely than hitting an attacker. It is why big grain rounds are not preferable to me in a home invasion scenario. Sheetrock doesn't stop bullets and I don't want to shoot my neighbors.

Something like 10% of the rounds fired by police in action hit their intended target and these are trained professionals. Wonder what an untrained person shoots?

I preface the following statements with: I have many friends who are cops, I am a Military Policeman, and I like law-enforcement.

Now... Cops are HORRIBLE shots. Most of them are not "gun people", and only fire or clean thier pistols during thier mandatory qualifications. They don't practice enough, and they dont train for firing when under stress. Also, sheetrock does an amazing job at stoping bullets. Not a single layer, but I have never seen a bullet pass out of one house and into another unless it was going through windows.

There are fantastic rounds made specificaly for home defense that are just compressed lead dust. It holds together for firing, but breaks apart instantly after passing through a single layer of sheetrock.

Splitlip
02-27-2011, 15:55
Best advice I got for carrying a gun. Always take care where a round is placed because hitting a bystander is often more likely than hitting an attacker. It is why big grain rounds are not preferable to me in a home invasion scenario. Sheetrock doesn't stop bullets and I don't want to shoot my neighbors.

Something like 10% of the rounds fired by police in action hit their intended target and these are trained professionals. Wonder what an untrained person shoots?


Funny stuff. I had breakfast this morning at my new favorite place. The Corner Cafe and Brewery, Tequesta, Florida (http://www.cornercafeandbrewery.com/)

This cute little 18 year old server was chatting everybody up. She was all excited after recently completing firearms training. (her Mom is a LEO).
Well people started to talk across the dining room giving safety advice etc. One guy says he was shot in 1986 during a car jacking in Staten Island. He has carried ever since. Well he picks up his shirt and shows us where he was hit 2 times on the right side of his rib cage with a .25 cal.
His friend was not so lucky. He was hit with a .22 mag which hit a rib on the back side, spun, fragmented and killed the guy.
Point is, different ammo acts differently.

Splitlip
02-27-2011, 16:09
I preface the following statements with: I have many friends who are cops, I am a Military Policeman, and I like law-enforcement.

Now... Cops are HORRIBLE shots. Most of them are not "gun people", and only fire or clean their pistols during their mandatory qualifications. They don't practice enough, and they don't train for firing when under stress.

LOL. My wife was a Federal cop. You are right on. She hated firearms and I feared for her life with some of her partners. Blind leading the blind. On the other hand, she had one partner who was a firearms instructor, pilot and eventually became a canine officer. He I trusted. They actually had a couple of major seizures. She had another partner who was former military and had actual "experience". When she was with him, I slept well. Different story when she was with a "Homer Simpson".

Before the baby was born, I went with her on late night call outs. I mean, depending on scenario, a smuggler is gonna get the same time for smuggling as he is for killing a cop.

ScubaToys Larry
02-27-2011, 17:56
Focus on the front sight.

focus on the red dot.... Crimson Trace.

fire diver
02-27-2011, 18:24
...Before the baby was born... .

Is this the same baby staning on your right in the avatar?

JLeFever
02-27-2011, 18:30
I've had my cwp for over 18 years and have carried every day since. (Glock 27 40 Cal. )
I go to the range at least once a month if not more to keep up my skills.
Shooting well is a perishable skill, so practice often.

Btw : my instructor for my cwp is a federal agent and he taught us -
Do not shoot to stop, you need to shoot to kill.
If they do survive do you really want it to be a your word against theirs issue in court.
Not saying you would be in the wrong if you are protecting your life, but do you really wanna take the chance?

ScubaToys Larry
02-27-2011, 18:56
I've had my cwp for over 18 years and have carried every day since. (Glock 27 40 Cal. )


Same one I carry... but I have the Crimson Trace grip on mine...

8867

SEMO Scuba
02-27-2011, 19:38
Drill Sergeant Joe B. Fricks Rules For A Gunfight
1. Forget about knives, bats and fists. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring four times the ammunition you think you could ever need.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammunition is cheap - life is expensive. If you shoot inside, buckshot is your friend. A new wall is cheap - funerals are expensive

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker and go to cover. Distance is your friend. (Bulletproof cover and diagonal or lateral movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a semi or full-automatic long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running. Yell "Fire!" Why "Fire"? Cops will come with the Fire Department, sirens often scare off the bad guys, or at least cause then to lose concentration and will.... and who is going to summon help if you yell "Intruder," "Glock" or "Winchester?"

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Stretch the rules. Always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work. "No battle plan ever survives 10 seconds past first contact with an enemy."

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible, but remember, sheetrock walls and the like stop nothing but your pulse when bullets tear through them.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees. Practice reloading one-handed and off-hand shooting. That's how you live if hit in your "good" side.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. Smiles, frowns and other facial expressions don't (In God we trust. Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.)

19. Decide NOW to always be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet if necessary, because they may want to kill you.

22. Be courteous to everyone, overly friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than "4".

25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw you gun into the mud, then make sure it still works. You can clean it later.

26. Practice shooting in the dark, with someone shouting at you, when out of breath, etc.

27. Regardless of whether justified of not, you will feel sad about killing another human being. It is better to be sad than to be room temperature.

28. The only thing you EVER say afterwards is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more. Please speak with my attorney."

Finally, Drill Sergeant Frick's Rules For Un-armed Combat.

1. Never be unarmed.

JLeFever
02-27-2011, 22:31
Same one I carry... but I have the Crimson Trace grip on mine...



Nice, I have the lasermax internal guide rod sight on mine, with the 2.5 lb trigger and all the upgrades.
8868

bigman241
02-27-2011, 22:51
the other day well a week and a half ago in indy, I went shooting at a indoor range, first day carrying and I felt I needed some practice with my new holster, which I returned for a bigger one and now have a new reason to go shoot tomorrow. I set up my target 20 feet out, I hear the guy next to me, "I wonder if he will throw his gun at it". I then watch him fire 2 mags of what I guess be 9mm since the wholes were small but it had some noise to it plus it was a semi and the wholes were to big for 380s. He got about a 80% hit ratio on a man outline target about 3 feet high and as wide as your shoulders are. the other 20% looked to be on the paper 4'x3', He was sitting at about 30 feet, I take my glock 21 which I have came to be good with(from the first fire session of missing a 5 gallon bucket 15 of 24 times, to hitting the thing I shoot at 95% of the time. I dropped 2 mags in the target, all in the man outline and all good shots, minus the two that hit the neck and what I would guess would make a man well a woman, LOL, I was not happy, and did two more mags changing with my right eye to my left eye, to both open, still alittle wide, no matter which eye I used or both. I then set my second target up at about 15ish feet and did 2 mags(24 rounds 12 each mag) first mag went right in the kill zone of the chest I would guess a 6 to 8 inch group, the second mag all in the head but except for the neck shot which would have meant for a juggler hit and your dead anyway.
As I go to leave I lean over the other booth and the guy said did you do any good, I said not really and held my 2nd target up. He did not say a word.

I think training is the key, alot of shooting time, and just plain knowing your gun, a friend of mine loves looking at my glock, he took the slide off and said he needed to turn on a light to see it put it back on. I told him then showed him I could eject a empty mag, remove the slide, reinstert the slide then load the made and pull the trigger with my eyes closed. Sure not going to do it on a shooting but I know my gun.

I think the other thing is quality, a 100 gun ant going to do it when it comes down to you and joe jackoff from down the street when he wants your car, wife, or your watch for all I care.
When it comes down to it pulling a gun for defense be it shooting it or not, changes everything, your blood pressure jumps, everything slows a bit, and things get real quick. I had to pull a 9mm in Ky when a guy become threatening in a store I ran, we were in the mountains he was in a neighbor hood watch(read hillbilly militia) and basically threaten to rob me and he as packing and I felt the need to draw. I honestly felt it was going to come down to one of us firing and it was going to be me. Full story if someone would like, it is a long one, but would make a good movie.
Best advice I got for carrying a gun. Always take care where a round is placed because hitting a bystander is often more likely than hitting an attacker. It is why big grain rounds are not preferable to me in a home invasion scenario. Sheetrock doesn't stop bullets and I don't want to shoot my neighbors.

Something like 10% of the rounds fired by police in action hit their intended target and these are trained professionals. Wonder what an untrained person shoots?

bigman241
02-27-2011, 22:52
how do you like the lasermax? been thinking about getting one

Nice, I have the lasermax internal guide rod sight on mine, with the 2.5 lb trigger and all the upgrades.
8868

Straegen
02-27-2011, 23:34
Now... Cops are HORRIBLE shots.As a whole this may be true but all the cops I know hunt and I would consider them above average. Now this isn't combat shooting which admittedly is different but I think that the majority of civilian people who carry are not even average shots and have virtually zero significant training. That is sheer speculation though.


Also, sheetrock does an amazing job at stoping bullets. Not a single layer, but I have never seen a bullet pass out of one house and into another unless it was going through windows.I disagree. I have a friend who was shot through a house and I have seen rounds go through sheetrock with ease. I decided to google it to see if my anecdotal experience measured up and found this: Ammunition Drywall Penetration Analysis Test (Adpat) (http://230grain.com/showthread.php?65428-Ammunition-Drywall-Penetration-Analysis-Test-(Adpat)) which is pretty interesting.


There are fantastic rounds made specificaly for home defense that are just compressed lead dust. It holds together for firing, but breaks apart instantly after passing through a single layer of sheetrock.I use home defense rounds as the first few rounds but later rounds in the chamber are more "forceful".


I had to pull a 9mm in Ky when a guy become threatening in a store I ran, we were in the mountains he was in a neighbor hood watch(read hillbilly militia) and basically threaten to rob me and he as packing and I felt the need to draw. I honestly felt it was going to come down to one of us firing and it was going to be me. Full story if someone would like, it is a long one, but would make a good movie.I know this if I ever pull a gun on someone they are going to get shot probably several times. Thankfully I have always been able to talk my way out those types of situations.

fire diver
02-28-2011, 07:55
As a whole this may be true but all the cops I know hunt and I would consider them above average.

LOL, well you ARE in Georgia!

Straegen
02-28-2011, 09:19
True enough (although most of the cops I know are in rural TN but same applies). If the 1 in 10 stat is true then there are some pretty bad shots in the professional ranks. I know one deputy who shot himself in the calf holstering his weapon.

fire diver
02-28-2011, 12:14
I've heard some horror stories from friends who have taken CCW classes. People who show up having never shot a gun before, people who MISS a target 7 feet away, etc.

It's a tough call. I think every law-abiding citizen whould be able to carry, but there are a lot of people who scare the crap out of me to think of them handling a gun.

KO-Texas
03-01-2011, 00:17
Best advice I got for carrying a gun. Always take care where a round is placed because hitting a bystander is often more likely than hitting an attacker. It is why big grain rounds are not preferable to me in a home invasion scenario. Sheetrock doesn't stop bullets and I don't want to shoot my neighbors.

Something like 10% of the rounds fired by police in action hit their intended target and these are trained professionals. Wonder what an untrained person shoots?

This is SO funny & SAD but True!
I used to shoot regularly with an Army buddy. One day at Bullet Trap (indoor shooting range for those outside DFW) we went to our assigned lanes and loaded. There was a guy 2 lanes down. He put his target @ half way down range and proceeded to blast away, all over the map!
Rocky and I put our targets up and out... all the way to the back of the range. We proceeded to empty the clips on our Glock 17 9mm's. All 15 rounds. We pulled our targets back. As expected you could put a Coke can over the pattern, (damn, we were off that day!)...
Guy in the other lane was an undercover police officer. He came over with his target and asked how we did? So we showed him. His was all over the place... He asked if we were FBI or DEA :smiley32: Nope! U.S. Army Rangers :smiley2: :smiley20:

Since then my brother made detective and I have shot with some very accurate officers, so not all are bad shots! ! Of course one did shoot Danny in the back during a training exercise, but I degrees....

KO