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navyhmc
03-30-2011, 01:58
So, I've been looking at the forum lately and there are very few questions of a dive nature. We need some good subjects to pass around. Anyone????

Recon
03-30-2011, 03:57
i have a question, kinda dive related, how is the shoulder navy?

~Recon

navyhmc
03-30-2011, 08:30
i have a question, kinda dive related, how is the shoulder navy?

~Recon

Improving, thanks. At least at this point they don't think it's a torn rotator cuff. But rotating the arm while supine still hurts like a mother! 4 more weeks of PT and then re-eval. My PT is a veritable slave driver and could have been an Inquisitor for Tokenada. I think she's getting back at me for any and all things I either did or was accused of doing as a kid (my sister is my PT) :smiley36:

scubastud
03-30-2011, 09:13
I was told that was issue with my shoulder a while back, and found out it is arthritis.
I love getting old!

Charon
03-30-2011, 09:22
At least at this point they don't think it's a torn rotator cuff.

That's great. I had a completely torn RC and while the operation went great the pain was so intense that the pain killers didn't touch it and I was awake, icing it, and suffering for more than 72 hours straight. I would not wish that operation on anyone.

TJDiver
03-30-2011, 11:40
I was told that was issue with my shoulder a while back, and found out it is arthritis.
I love getting old!

Me too...because it sure beats the alternative! :smiley2:

Hey navy...I know this was supposed to be a "scuba questions" thread...but, here's to hoping you get some relief from that shoulder issue soon.

Hmmm...can't think of a single scuba related question at the moment. That can only mean one thing...I know everything there is to know about scuba. :smiley36: Oh wait...a statement that absurd requires one of these >>> :smilie39:

Gonnagettanked
03-30-2011, 11:48
Hi Navy glad you're getting some relief. I'm just back from St Kitts finished a dozen dives now:) My Husband and I dove our first wreck the River Taw 79' deepest for my ears! I figured I'd freak going in, but loved it!
My scuba question is about weights I'm a new diver so I'm having trouble descending, lots,thank God for a line or in 1 case my husband. He had to pull my down like a balloon in a parade. Once I'm down I sometime struggle to keep from bottoming out. The DM removed some weight while in the water and I had a great time. I can't understand how I'm too buoyant to descend, than I need to keep adding air to my bc. On the second dive I still couldn't get down very easily,especially with a little less weight. This is very confusing. By the end of my trip I did manage to trim 4lbs and my buoyancy was so much better. Believe it or not I did see amazing things in spite of my technical difficulties:) any advice?

TRACI
03-30-2011, 11:52
I miss all the dive related topics! :smiley13:

Need more trip reports too, if anyone can afford the airfare.....:smiley5:

Noob
03-30-2011, 12:20
Navy, you need to get that shoulder better. We need to dive together this year.

Recon
03-30-2011, 12:36
I am hopeing to get to the DDCN dive on the 16th, I just do not know if my schedule is going to allow it.... :(

~Recon

Splitlip
03-30-2011, 12:56
This has got to be a world record, even for ScubaToys. Thread derailed and off topic with the first reply. Nice going guys.

Recon
03-30-2011, 12:57
Sry :(

~Recon

bfmorgan
03-30-2011, 13:14
Navy, I hope you continue to improve. PT always seems to be painful, even if it not your sister doing the PT. She may lack some sensitivity to your pain based on your behavior when younger. I am sure my sisters would like to have a chance to inflict pain on me in the name of trying to help me!

SCUBA QUESTION: The question is related to weights and buoyancy. Gonnagettanked has a really good question. My question is similar. New diver who will need to figure out weights and buoyancy. The BCD has weights on the tank band for trim. I would assume 2lbs on either side of the tank for 4 lbs. total.

In the pool, no wetsuit, and AL80 it takes 14 lbs. to make me sink. I like to float...probably a survival mechanism. With a 7mm wetsuit, hood, gloves, I anticipate a total weighting of 20 to 22 lbs. Does this seem reasonable, light, or heavy? Are the trim weights appropriately sized on the tank or do you not recommend trim weights?

I have heard that midwestern divers are usually overweighted, so trying to get started in the approximate recommended weight range.

I will perform the buoyancy test with the recommended weights to see what happens. Thanks.

PACKRMAN
03-30-2011, 13:34
About the lead.

We just got back from Mexico and one of the DM's had an approach that I really liked. He wanted everybody to just float on the surface for two minutes before decending as a group. His thought was that alot of people are excited and breathing fast when they jump in the water. By waiting two minutes they would relax and do a better job of breathing during the first ten feet.
I know I have had my lungs FULL and had trouble in the past.

fire diver
03-30-2011, 13:34
I don't which is worse, an endless supply of new members asking the same question every week, or nobody asking questions.

It really seems the ST has gotten quiet, quiet, quiet the last couple years.

Personally, I'm not much of a question asker. I prefer to answer others questions.

Recon
03-30-2011, 13:45
lead can be tricky... loose a few pounds in the waist it changes.... gain a few pounds.... it changes..... but most of all, comfort level, the more comfortable you get in the water, the less lead you will need. 14 pounds of lead is a lot to have to sink you in a pool with no wetsuit on... a couple of things to think about, are you finning out of natural reaction trying to stay floating? does your BC still have air in it at all when trying to do a weight check? i know people (mostly that make me sick) that can use only 1 pound of lead to sink them. another guy... cough DD cough that needs to just exhale to sink like a stone. Now on to the trim weight question... I use 2x1 pound lead weights for my trim and 2x4 pound lead for my lead on my belt and then depending on my gear set up, i might need to add a 1 pound weight in a pocket. keep in mind though, this is all while i am in a 7mm wetsuit / 6.5mm boots, 5mil gloves, and a 5mil hood... that is a lot of neoprene to sink.

Gonnagettanked
03-30-2011, 14:43
I don't which is worse, an endless supply of new members asking the same question every week, or nobody asking questions.

It really seems the ST has gotten quiet, quiet, quiet the last couple years.

Personally, I'm not much of a question asker. I prefer to answer others questions.

Sorry for such a dilemma Fire Diver, but Navy titled this one ????? and being one of the endless supply I had one!

UCFKnightDiver
03-30-2011, 15:28
Yes, this forum has pretty much died, if you're bored here you could check out scubaboard.

JLeFever
03-30-2011, 15:28
My question:
Are there any drills or things i can do on land to help me with navigation UW.
Like setting up a training exercise to help with navigation.
I've seen a few on youtube but they dont really explain what they are doing, they just show people walking around with their compass and doing the drills, etc. They never explain in detail what they are doing.

sorry if it's a dumb ?, but I'm getting ready to do my AOW soon and want to be able to navigate UW better than I can now.
thx

fire diver
03-30-2011, 15:47
Not a dumb question at all. There are two aspects to UW nav. Compass use and movement. You can practice compass use on land. Just get into an open area and pick something a ways away from you. point yourself in that direction and look at the compass reading. Now, slowly walk while watching the compass until you reach your point. It's that simple. The hard part CAN be the movement underwater. first, you have to learn your kick cycles. You will earn this in class. Then you have to apply the kick cycles (and simple math) to go a certain distance on a certain azimuth underwater.

If you have current, it can become tricky as the current will push you off course. In this situation, get your azimuth and look for an object as far away that is in a straight path with your azimuth. Now swim to that object while counting kick cycles. When you reach the object, reaquire your azimuth and pick the next target to swim to.

Final part of most nav classes is to have you swim a pre-set circuit. You will be given a set of directions and distances to swim which should bring you back to a given point at the end. You have to be within so many feet to get a "go".

navyhmc
03-30-2011, 18:02
To add to fire diver's reply:

Another thing you can do to start is put a towel over your head, have someone next to you to keep you out of trouble, brambles, rose bushes, rocks, etc and run a set course with set azimuth(s) and step count. Start with a simple out and back course then graduate to a triangle and then a rectangle. This gets you more confdent in the accuracy of the compass. Then do the same thing without the towel. This way you get used to looking around while running your course-something that a lot of new nav students don't do-they miss a few great sights on dives by only looking at the compass.

One on the harder things to overcome is when the compass gives you one heading and your brain doesn't think it's right. trust the compass. Another is to adjust the angle of the compass rather than the angle that you're moving. Move the body around the compass, not the compass around the body.

Step count or kick count becomes very important quickly as well-get used to counting. The two basic methods are to count both legs of a kick, the preferred method is to count kick cycles: left leg up to left leg up or right leg or down-you get the picture. A kick cycle works better because there's less to count for a given distance. Losing track is a problem, no matter what-there are tools and products out there to help if needed. Also, the distance of a kick cycle changes with the speed and type of kick you do so you try to leep it constant.

We also have one leg that is usually stronger than the other so there is a tendancy to have a little bit of a side slip while finning. One way to see is to put the fins on in the pool-especially one with the racing lines on the bottom, get right over the line submerge, close your eyes and take 3-5 kick cycles. After your kick cycles, open your eyes and see where you are in relation to the line-this will give you an idea of how far your drift. Have your gear on in your normal configuration is better as your gear can cause drift as well.

This may seem like a lot, the key is to practice and not only in a pool, do some local dives in areas you're comfortable in. I know: "OH Darn! I have to go dive..." :smiley36: (You have no idea how many dives I've made using this as an excuse: "Honey, we're going to go do some work up dives for XYZ trip...":smilie39: )

TwistedSister209
03-30-2011, 21:28
Thanks for the questions, and answers.

Davetowz
03-30-2011, 22:04
I did an awesome dive @ White Star quarry in OH on Sunday, 40 minutes 37 degrees. Great dive, my undergarments(old) still rock! I didnt even realize my exhaust valve was leaking until I got out of the water!, then the 28 degree air informed me that I was really wet! Can't wait to hit Beaver the weekend after the DDCN dive. Wheelman and Budd...I will be in contact as soon as my travel is locked in(this week)
heading to morehead for mem weekend now also.... doing my DM also...gonna be a great dive year. and to boot my 11 y/o daughter is fired up about her upcoming junior O/W cert!

Davetowz
03-30-2011, 22:06
probably only a better year if I discover the twin to the Atocha!, oh yeah, met Sean Fisher at ScubaFest and got to fondle Atocha gold ...dang it has already been a good diving year!

JLeFever
03-30-2011, 22:50
thanks for the replies, i'll try it out.

fire diver
03-30-2011, 23:16
To add to fire diver's reply:

We also have one leg that is usually stronger than the other so there is a tendancy to have a little bit of a side slip while finning. One way to see is to put the fins on in the pool-especially one with the racing lines on the bottom, get right over the line submerge, close your eyes and take 3-5 kick cycles. After your kick cycles, open your eyes and see where you are in relation to the line-this will give you an idea of how far your drift. Have your gear on in your normal configuration is better as your gear can cause drift as well.


That's a very important point I forgot about. If you are just going along, not paying attention to anything you will wind up swimming in a circle. Trust your compass, trust your pace (kick) count.

Quero
03-31-2011, 01:05
So, I've been looking at the forum lately and there are very few questions of a dive nature. We need some good subjects to pass around. Anyone????

I can second that sentiment. I come online and the chat, jokes, games, and agony aunt posts outnumber the dive-related posts by many multiples! I'm more used to answering questions than asking them, but I'll give it some thought.

Edit: I thought of one! It will be about O2 analyzer maintenance. Just have to find the right forum for it.
Edit #2: Now I see we're supposed to post our questions here. It's in a new post.


This has got to be a world record, even for ScubaToys. Thread derailed and off topic with the first reply. Nice going guys.

Let me jump on that derailed train!


That's great. I had a completely torn RC and while the operation went great the pain was so intense that the pain killers didn't touch it and I was awake, icing it, and suffering for more than 72 hours straight. I would not wish that operation on anyone.

I had a torn RC some 10 years ago as a result of a fall, and after weeks of trying just about everything non-invasive from acupuncture to shiatsu to ultrasound, etc., I gave up and went to an expensive doctor who was president of the national association of orthopedic surgeons. At this point my entire arm was useless from the shoulder all the way to my fingertips--I couldn't even press a soap dispenser with my thumb, and of course sleep was utterly impossible.

Naturally, like any good cutter, he recommended surgery right off, but I flat refused and asked to hold that back as a last resort. So he started me on cortisone injections directly into the capsule at increasing time intervals. I had these shots (HUGE needles) for about two years before I could achieve nearly full rotation. It's working fine now, but I have to be very, very careful of it and I have to do exercises to keep it functioning well. So there are anti-knife success stories out there!

Quero
03-31-2011, 01:18
Scuba-related question, and it's a two-fer:
Part 1: I am wondering how easy it is to change the sensor in the Analox/Amoxtec O2EII analyzer. Have any of you done performed this maintenance?
Part 2: Why doesn't ST sell the spare sensors considering that they sell the analyzer?

Smashee
03-31-2011, 03:49
Scuba-related question, and it's a two-fer:
Part 1: I am wondering how easy it is to change the sensor in the Analox/Amoxtec O2EII analyzer. Have any of you done performed this maintenance?

Very & yes. Changed it on my friends O2EII (I built my own oxygen analyzer based on an R22 rebreather cell ) It's about as tricky as swapping a light-bulb. Destructions are in section 5.2 of the manual here: http://www.analox.net/product-docs/manual-13.pdf
As long as you can handle a screwdriver without hurting yourself, you should be fine. :D

As for Pt. 2 <shrugs>

navyhmc
03-31-2011, 06:16
As for pt 2: I will bet that ST does carry them but doesn't have them on the web site and if called can ship today.

Gonnagettanked
03-31-2011, 07:18
About the lead.

We just got back from Mexico and one of the DM's had an approach that I really liked. He wanted everybody to just float on the surface for two minutes before decending as a group. His thought was that alot of people are excited and breathing fast when they jump in the water. By waiting two minutes they would relax and do a better job of breathing during the first ten feet.
I know I have had my lungs FULL and had trouble in the past.
thanks PM Makes sense to me. I watch the finning and try the 2 minute bob!

bfmorgan
03-31-2011, 08:33
Thanks for the advice. I will spend some pool time trying to sort it all out.

lead can be tricky... loose a few pounds in the waist it changes.... gain a few pounds.... it changes..... but most of all, comfort level, the more comfortable you get in the water, the less lead you will need. 14 pounds of lead is a lot to have to sink you in a pool with no wetsuit on... a couple of things to think about, are you finning out of natural reaction trying to stay floating? does your BC still have air in it at all when trying to do a weight check? i know people (mostly that make me sick) that can use only 1 pound of lead to sink them. another guy... cough DD cough that needs to just exhale to sink like a stone. Now on to the trim weight question... I use 2x1 pound lead weights for my trim and 2x4 pound lead for my lead on my belt and then depending on my gear set up, i might need to add a 1 pound weight in a pocket. keep in mind though, this is all while i am in a 7mm wetsuit / 6.5mm boots, 5mil gloves, and a 5mil hood... that is a lot of neoprene to sink.