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jo8243
09-18-2007, 09:13
Has anyone tried the Razor on a pony? I'm considering trying one to see if it decreases the negative buoyancy significantly to fix some trim issues I'm having.

charlesml3
09-19-2007, 13:58
Sure, I have the Razor on a pony. I like how it combines the tank valve and first stage into one. Makes things easier. Would it really shed that much weight for you though?

-Charles

jo8243
09-19-2007, 17:10
Sure, I have the Razor on a pony. I like how it combines the tank valve and first stage into one. Makes things easier. Would it really shed that much weight for you though?

-Charles

About 2.5 lbs savings I believe (my current pony 1st stage + current valve = 3.75 lbs), which is a decent amount when it comes to affecting trim I'd think. ?

DougNR
09-20-2007, 10:12
I have the Razor on a 19 cuft pony and like it very much. For me it was not about saving weight, but having less potential for snags on a typical valve / 1st stage set up. The Razor is very clean and simple.

jo8243
09-20-2007, 10:55
I have the Razor on a 19 cuft pony and like it very much. For me it was not about saving weight, but having less potential for snags on a typical valve / 1st stage set up. The Razor is very clean and simple.

Did you notice any less effect on your trim with it on vs a traditional setup?

DougNR
09-20-2007, 20:53
I have the Razor on a 19 cuft pony and like it very much. For me it was not about saving weight, but having less potential for snags on a typical valve / 1st stage set up. The Razor is very clean and simple.

Did you notice any less effect on your trim with it on vs a traditional setup?


Not enough to be too concerned about. I haven't measured the weight in water, but I'd guesstimate 2-3 pounds added. My placement is near center of gravity (buoyance) so no impact on trimming for horizontal either.

Regards;

jo8243
09-20-2007, 21:07
I have the Razor on a 19 cuft pony and like it very much. For me it was not about saving weight, but having less potential for snags on a typical valve / 1st stage set up. The Razor is very clean and simple.

Did you notice any less effect on your trim with it on vs a traditional setup?


Not enough to be too concerned about. I haven't measured the weight in water, but I'd guesstimate 2-3 pounds added. My placement is near center of gravity (buoyance) so no impact on trimming for horizontal either.

Regards;

Where do you mount your pony out of curiousity?

paintsnow
09-20-2007, 23:37
i would take a DIN valve over the screw in just in case your primary reg dies, then you can switch out a few hoses and go diving without a pony, but still go diving, but you cant go diving with just a pony, or at least not for very long

jo8243
09-21-2007, 07:19
i would take a DIN valve over the screw in just in case your primary reg dies, then you can switch out a few hoses and go diving without a pony, but still go diving, but you cant go diving with just a pony, or at least not for very long

Well I already have a backup reg so I'd be ok there.

DougNR
09-21-2007, 11:29
Not enough to be too concerned about. I haven't measured the weight in water, but I'd guesstimate 2-3 pounds added. My placement is near center of gravity (buoyance) so no impact on trimming for horizontal either.


Where do you mount your pony out of curiousity?[/QUOTE]

Left of the back gas using Zeagle straps.

crpntr133
09-21-2007, 13:47
i would take a DIN valve over the screw in just in case your primary reg dies, then you can switch out a few hoses and go diving without a pony, but still go diving, but you cant go diving with just a pony, or at least not for very long

Good point. Never thought about that.

jo8243
09-21-2007, 16:35
Where do you mount your pony out of curiousity?

Left of the back gas using Zeagle straps.

Do you invert it or have it valve-up? Do you have to use any counter-weights to prevent it from rolling you?

paintsnow
09-21-2007, 19:37
i would take a DIN valve over the screw in just in case your primary reg dies, then you can switch out a few hoses and go diving without a pony, but still go diving, but you cant go diving with just a pony, or at least not for very long

Well I already have a backup reg so I'd be ok there.

well then if you already have a backup reg just use that and save yourself some money.

also you cant forget the fill adapter needed to fill a tank with a screw in reg as it would be a standard valve

jo8243
09-21-2007, 20:36
well then if you already have a backup reg just use that and save yourself some money.


re-read the original post :)
http://comsewogue.k12.ny.us/~klusak/mediacenter/images/RIFLogo.jpg

quasimoto
09-22-2007, 17:13
Interesting info about the razor. Thought about it myself but decided not to since I thought it would cause more troubles for a fill.

charlesml3
09-22-2007, 17:43
Mine is mounted on the right. I mount it "upside down" with the valve pointed down.

I'm not sure why you'd think it would "cause more troubles for a fill." I just use the included transfiller to move air from a full tank over to the pony. Most times I can get my dive op to top off the doner tank afterwards without giving me any static.

-Charles

charlesml3
09-24-2007, 16:08
About 2.5 lbs savings I believe

That's a good point. So the razor + octo is going to be about 2.5 lbs negative. All I need to do now is find out how my pony behaves and subtract that from the weight I'm carrying now. Cool!

-Charles

crpntr133
09-24-2007, 16:17
I'm not sure why you'd think it would "cause more troubles for a fill." I just use the included transfiller to move air from a full tank over to the pony. Most times I can get my dive op to top off the doner tank afterwards without giving me any static.

-Charles
Probably because you have to carry the transfiller with you or you don't get a fill. With a regular pony any shop should be able to fill it for you. Also most won't charge for a pony fill if you are getting a regular fill at the same time. I say that means pony as in a 13-19. Most will charge something for a 30 and 40.

DougNR
09-25-2007, 18:38
Where do you mount your pony out of curiousity?

Left of the back gas using Zeagle straps.

Do you invert it or have it valve-up? Do you have to use any counter-weights to prevent it from rolling you?

Sorry this took a while - I was on the road...

I'm using valve up right now, but I plan to go with a longer hose so I can change to valve down. Valve down will be easier to get to, and I can leave it off if I choose to. I have not felt that the configuration has a tendancy to roll. I think there COULD be if I was not using a back inflating BC (Zeagle Brigade).

Regards.

jo8243
09-25-2007, 20:39
I'm not sure why you'd think it would "cause more troubles for a fill." I just use the included transfiller to move air from a full tank over to the pony. Most times I can get my dive op to top off the doner tank afterwards without giving me any static.

-Charles
Probably because you have to carry the transfiller with you or you don't get a fill.

No you don't........ it has screw on attachment that allows a fill from a normal filling yoke. It's not gonna be any "harder" unless you're real lazy. See attached pic.
:)

http://www.zeagle.com/clientuploads/Jim_Fox_Photos/Regulators/RaZor-with-Fill-Adapter.gif

quasimoto
09-25-2007, 20:47
I'm not sure why you'd think it would "cause more troubles for a fill." I just use the included transfiller to move air from a full tank over to the pony. Most times I can get my dive op to top off the doner tank afterwards without giving me any static.

-Charles
Probably because you have to carry the transfiller with you or you don't get a fill.

No you don't........ it has screw on attachment that allows a fill from a normal filling yoke. It's not gonna be any "harder" unless you're real lazy. See attached pic.
:)

http://www.zeagle.com/clientuploads/Jim_Fox_Photos/Regulators/RaZor-with-Fill-Adapter.gif

But if you loose that adapter and can't get one quickly then your screwed. No pony fill unless you have one ..correct? With a normal DIN or yoke anybody can fil it, especially if they have a whip. Just one more thing to keep track of.

paintsnow
09-26-2007, 02:14
what you might consider for faster access to gas, is to keep the pony on, and put one of these on it next to the 2nd stage reg http://tdl.divebiz.net/images/Reg2-Shutoff.jpg (javascript:window.close())

and what that does is pretty much shut off the air at that point, to turn the air back "on" you just slide the collar instead of having to reach back and start opening the valve.

charlesml3
09-26-2007, 09:27
But if you loose that adapter and can't get one quickly then your screwed.

Well I suppose if you lose it then yea. You're also screwed if you lose your mask. Or one of your fins. Or your computer.

I don't think the argument "You could lose the adapter" really makes a compelling case here.

-Charles

charlesml3
09-26-2007, 09:38
Hey Jo,

According to the manufacturer, my pony is -1.5 pounds full with a "K" valve in sea water. I'm thinking the Razor probably weighs a bit more than a standard "K" valve. Figure -2.0 pounds total sound about right?

Thanks!

-Charles

jo8243
09-26-2007, 14:58
But if you loose that adapter and can't get one quickly then your screwed. No pony fill unless you have one ..correct? With a normal DIN or yoke anybody can fil it, especially if they have a whip. Just one more thing to keep track of.

I'm with charlesml3.... bad argument. Don't lose it! If you can't keep track of anything how do you keep from losing your buddy?
:smiley36:

jo8243
09-26-2007, 15:00
Hey Jo,

According to the manufacturer, my pony is -1.5 pounds full with a "K" valve in sea water. I'm thinking the Razor probably weighs a bit more than a standard "K" valve. Figure -2.0 pounds total sound about right?

Thanks!

-Charles

Actually The razor weighs about the same as a regular K valve from some measurements I took. A K valve is about 1.7 lbs and the razor is supposed to be (I haven't weighed one) 1.6 lbs.

My existing 2nd stage is like 2 lbs. So I'd be losing 2 lbs.

Gonna order it here shortly. I'll post the results back here after I've tested it.

ccarter
09-26-2007, 15:17
But if you loose that adapter and can't get one quickly then your screwed.Well I suppose if you lose it then yea. You're also screwed if you lose your mask. Or one of your fins. Or your computer.

I don't think the argument "You could lose the adapter" really makes a compelling case here.

-Charles
Agreed.. you can lose lots of stuff.. doesn't stop anyone from carrying the tons of equipment we carry already.

charlesml3
09-27-2007, 09:03
Gonna order it here shortly. I'll post the results back here after I've tested it.

You rock, dude! I realize that a 1/2 pound either way doesn't really matter but it's fun to take a look at these things. I have two pony bottles but only one Razor/Envoy combo. I just use the pony that makes sense for where I'm going.

In Roatan, all the diving is 55' or less and I take a 6' pony. Other places like Cozumel where we're hitting 90' or so I take the 13' pony.

Looking forward to hearing your results!

Thanks!

-Charles

rfb3
03-03-2008, 13:07
But if you loose that adapter and can't get one quickly then your screwed.

Well I suppose if you lose it then yea. You're also screwed if you lose your mask. Or one of your fins. Or your computer.

I don't think the argument "You could lose the adapter" really makes a compelling case here.

-Charles

I agree with Charles.
I lost a fin once... The DM would not let me do the second dive, because he said I was "bothering" the other divers by continually swimming in a circle... :smiley36:

rfb3
03-06-2008, 10:26
Let me ask this question concerning the Razor and other regs for a pony... Are there other regs out there that are similarly as small and compact that might be a good purchase???

charlesml3
03-06-2008, 14:29
The Razor is the only I know of that combines a first stage and a tank valve all into one. I poke around equipment forums a lot and haven't come across another. Who knows? Maybe someone else does this as well.

-Charles

Grin
03-07-2008, 09:54
When I tryed the Razor I was trying to get as streamlined as possible etc... I can still see the reasoning in the right situations. But, if your strapping it to your maintank(back) there is no reason to get the razor. Mine's on my back and I now use a Sherwood 1 st stage. Also, If you plan on running the valve in the off position (on your back possibly also) it might be alot easier to find the valve knob on a regular first stage, than the Razors little knob. Simply put, if you plan on carrying the pony on your main tank(back) I see no good reasons to go Razor over a regular 1st stage. On a 6 cu ft bottle the razor does slim it down. But on a 13 or bigger it is hardly noticable. But if the 1 st stage was located otherwise it might be a benefit in some situation.