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bigman241
03-02-2012, 16:24
Calling the dive when I did was the first and most important thing to saving my life and me not laying dead on that wreck another story in the accident section of the forum and someone else writing this and calling my friends for a burial date. But here is the story

We left wensday afternoon, the whole way from lecanto to key largo we discussed the dive, what we would do, how deep, what if this or that happen, and early had about a 5 or 6 hour pre dive briefing. We always discuss our dive before head but never this detailed, normally its ok we hit max depth of... and level out do this and this then go back up. This time it was detailed to the last air bubble. I think because while some may feel it was way beyond us I dont entirely agree or disagree. I think it was or is our most advanced and challanging dive to date, but I think with the guide and pre planning within our experience level.

When we got to the boat the wind had kicked up a good bit and the captain said 12 knots at the wreck so we knew the waves where going to be up there. When we got to the site we where in 4-6+ chop and it was rough, but we had been in worst when we did our ow cert.
I opted to buy the go pro and think it was part of my issue, looking back not a good added tasking loading for the dive given the dive and i had not used one, but it played alittle part in the issues but did play a part.
I went in the water with the granny line in hand, my buddy had went in on the line off the back of the boat and was going moving toward me. The guide had went in before me and after my buddy I was the third in the water. I started up the line toward the float to decend the line to the spiegal. As I started up the line the current was bad, and I had dove in current in the keys last year but dam it was bad. I had switched to my snorkal as to save air as the guide recommended.

As I was pulling my self through the water, the waves began pushing through my snorkal and I could not clear it fast enough so I switched to my reg. Having already got water in my stomach and lungs from the snorkel I was beinging to thing calling it was the best option, but i felt I could keep going as long as nothing else was a issue. As I got i dont know maybe 40 feet down the line nearing the bouy my mask began to flood, I dont know if it was cause of my go pro on a head mount and under my mask strap or just the waves. SO I cleared it 3 times in a few minutes. A wave hit me and knocked my reg loose and pushed water into my lungs and stomach. As the point my back plate had become alittle loose and was moving around on me. I saw three options one a bad idea, one a idea that would probably got me killed and the third being go back to the boat.
Option 1 was move to the bouy fix my back plate and mask, then wait for my buddy and the guide. I did not like it cause I would have been bashed just the same on the bouy. 2nd option get to the bouy quickly tighten my bc up and go down to the wreck and wait. I saw a big problem her, I was on a wreck id never dove, a depth that would have been my max ever, and currents I had never dealt with. Second issue my lungs and stomach had enough water in them they where on fire. I honestly feel if I had decended on that wreck with water in my lungs, my blood pressure up, my heart rate racing and my arms and legs where stiff and sore from getting there. SO I made the decsion to abort the dive. I honestly think had I keep going I would be dead.

As I moved back toward the boat I let everyone by me and moved for the back. Once again a 6 foot wave hit me and I went under reg coming out of my mouth. My buddy had to get back on the boat as he had trouble with his weight and him and the captain both said when I came up I had water pouring out of my mouth and I did I could feel it pouring over my face. As I got to the back of the boat I transfered to the line of the back of the boat and worked my way to the boat. A wave hit me again and for a third time I was under no reg in my mouth, the wave pushed water down my stomach and lungs and when I put my reg in fully underwater I could not take a breath as my lungs where full of water. I came up and moved toward the boat, at this point I could not swim anymore and the rescue diver came in after me and she pulled me to the boat. I pulled my self up the ladder over about 2 minutes and crawled my way on the boat and when I was on my hands and knees gear still on water was pouring from my mouth.

When the rescue diver was coming in after me I was beginning to black out and I am guessing from lack of oxygen as it had been about 1:30 seconds to 2 minutes since my lungs filled with water and I had not breathed since. She told me on the boat when she got to me she thought I was unconscious.

I have never had to fight for my life, yes i have been close to dieing before, a few car accidents and such but never had to fight for my life, I got to the boat when my lungs where filled with water for the third time I was going to die. The captain told me while we talked about it during the second dive that he knew something was up when I came up the third time and my reg was out and I was not putting it back in. I told him the was no point I could not breath, he said if you had panicked you would not be sitting there. I agree 100, sure it was terrifying, but the whole time I just keep telling my self to remain calm and think about what I had been taught, what I was trained to do if this or that happen.

I had a nice few hours ot think about just how close I had come to dieing and what went wrong and what I did right and wrong. Am I glad I about drowned, hell no, but I am glad I worked through the problems and now have the experience and I know what I can do when I have to.
Every bone in my body, ever muscle is sore, my dad says, because you had to work your body more then it ever had, and you used muscles you did not know you had, because it was life or death.

bigman241
03-02-2012, 16:25
on a side note, I think in the end what saved me was the fact of knowing it was time to call the dive. The rest of it came after that decision. that wreck is not going anywhere, whats the point in seeing it if I am not coming back up.

mala
03-02-2012, 16:36
thanks for the read.
glad you are ok.

is it usual in the states to be dropped by the boat downstream of the shot line and to surface swim?

we normally get dropped upstream and decend straight away if its choppey untill we meet the downline underwater.

Herbdb
03-02-2012, 16:53
With a ripping current in the Keys, most operators run a line from the bouy/downline on the surface down the side of the boat. Divers enter the water and pull themselves forward on the surface to the down line.

In North Carolina they suspend a weighted line at 15 feet from the down line to the back of the boat. Divers use it to pull themselves forward to the downline below the surface and as a hangline at the end of the line.

There are probably other methods, I have not ecperienced, too.

bigman241
03-02-2012, 17:29
thats how the dive was set up. a line running down the front of the boat from the bouy coming off the wreck. We pulled our selfs down the line to the bouy via the side of the boat. There was also a line of the back of the boat to transfer to from the line going to the front to access the ladder when returning. It seems to be how the dive ops down there do it. I am not going to say do it this way or that, because I have no idea how or why they do it. I could see running aline off the back of the boat to a down current bouy but I am sure they have a reason for doing it they way it is done. Rainbow reef did a great job and their crew made a big difference in me making it back on the boat. They have been and continue to be our go to op in key largo

With a ripping current in the Keys, most operators run a line from the bouy/downline on the surface down the side of the boat. Divers enter the water and pull themselves forward on the surface to the down line.

In North Carolina they suspend a weighted line at 15 feet from the down line to the back of the boat. Divers use it to pull themselves forward to the downline below the surface and as a hangline at the end of the line.

There are probably other methods, I have not ecperienced, too.

Aquatrax
03-02-2012, 18:59
Glad you are ok.

There is a definite technique for pulling yourself along the granny line in strong current. Were you briefed on this before jumping in?

I can't imagine trying to use a snorkel to get to the down line in six foot seas just to save a few cubic feet of air.

Curious as to the current, did the crew tell you?

DevilDiver
03-02-2012, 19:06
I opted to buy the go pro......

Please, Please, Please..... Post the video.

snagel
03-02-2012, 19:18
Glad you're okay, but this was absolutely ridiculous. You knew you were not prepared for this dive and many on this forum also told you. Shame on you for putting yourself in this situation. This isn't what diving is all about.

Sorry,

Snagel

chinacat46
03-02-2012, 19:33
I opted to buy the go pro......

Packrman wants to know if he pays you for it now if he will get it by Christmas?

gNats
03-02-2012, 20:06
Glad you're okay, but this was absolutely ridiculous. You knew you were not prepared for this dive and many on this forum also told you. Shame on you for putting yourself in this situation. This isn't what diving is all about.

Sorry,

Snagel

Worse. He RISKED the life of a rescue diver who had to jump in to save his life.

Largo
03-02-2012, 20:25
I'm out.

Largo
03-02-2012, 20:33
I deleted a post.

Tim, if you are real, please find a good instructor and start over.

PlatypusMan
03-02-2012, 20:49
I'm out, too.

There are things I would like to say that I cannot frame politely, and would probably get me tossed for violating the TOS of the board.

The only thing that I WILL say is the same thing I tell my students at the end of the class: many dive incidents start with a diver exceeding his training.

That's it, I'm done here

Smashee
03-02-2012, 21:08
I don't think anyone would have blamed the rescuer if they had taken a look at the situation and decided to apply Rule 1.
Respect (and multiple large & expensive drinks) is due there.

DivingCRNA
03-02-2012, 21:18
Your training and physical conditioning were grossly lacking for this dive.

Get in shape and do more dives at your level before risking anyone else's life again.

I'm out.

DivingCRNA
03-03-2012, 09:07
on a side note, I think in the end what saved me was the fact of knowing it was time to call the dive. The rest of it came after that decision. that wreck is not going anywhere, whats the point in seeing it if I am not coming back up.

You should have called the dive before you geared up. Or maybe before you booked the boat.

TwistedSister209
03-03-2012, 15:12
Worse. He RISKED the life of a rescue diver who had to jump in to save his life.

Agree totally.
Did we expect any other outcome?

scubagirlj
03-03-2012, 15:19
didn't anyone notice that supposedly getting the crap scared out of him improved his spelling & grammar dramatically?

navyhmc
03-03-2012, 15:57
...Did we expect any other outcome?

Actually, I had hoped he would fare well but in the back of my mind this was the outcome I expected.

1. Didn't listen to the advice of experienced divers - no surpise
2. Cautioned about task loading - ditto
3. Reccommended to get more dives before going. ditto again
4. Was advised to re-read the entier book again. didn't get done I am guessing.

All I can hope for is that he may have learned from this and will acually heed the advice that has been given to him in the past.

Aquatrax
03-03-2012, 16:12
Quote: "I think because while some may feel it was way beyond us I dont entirely agree or disagree. I think it was or is our most advanced and challanging dive to date, but I think with the guide and pre planning within our experience level."

He didn't learn a @#$% thing. I'm done but I agree with DD, please please please post the video, in the accidents forum,, this was just short of fatal.

Diver Kat
03-03-2012, 17:26
didn't anyone notice that supposedly getting the crap scared out of him improved his spelling & grammar dramatically?
Well at first read I thought maybe, but after the 2nd ..... still BAD!!!:smiley5:

Just a few of the many errors .....


We left wensday afternoon
We always discuss our dive before head but never this detailed
The guide had went in
I was beinging

chinacat46
03-03-2012, 18:09
Now Kat don't be a pilkunnussija.

scubagirlj
03-03-2012, 18:17
Well at first read I thought maybe, but after the 2nd ..... still BAD!!!:smiley5:

Just a few of the many errors .....


i said 'improved', not corrected...anyway, done, also

Smashee
03-03-2012, 18:37
Quote: "I think because while some may feel it was way beyond us I dont entirely agree or disagree. I think it was or is our most advanced and challanging dive to date, but I think with the guide and pre planning within our experience level."

Also:

and now have the experience and I know what I can do when I have to.

Yep. Exhaust yourself, pass out & risk someone else's life in order to save yours.
Pics or it didn't happen.

And I'm out.

BRsnow
03-03-2012, 18:49
You folks can't leave this thread, or if you do, you will back on Big's next one. He is the forum focus, he owns it. BR

Diver Kat
03-03-2012, 19:21
You folks can't leave this thread, or if you do, you will back on Big's next one. He is the forum focus, he owns it. BR
Nope! It's called the 'Ignore List' ....

BUDMAN
03-03-2012, 20:05
it's like a train wreck you know you shouldn't look but you can't help yourself

Diver Kat
03-04-2012, 00:23
it's like a train wreck you know you shouldn't look but you can't help yourself
Exactly!

jet126
03-04-2012, 00:44
it's like a train wreck you know you shouldn't look but you can't help yourself


Exactly!

Yup, +1

cyclone3565
03-04-2012, 05:06
I have said it before:

you can't fix stupid

Stop Diving now - we don't need another statistic.

Aquatrax
03-04-2012, 05:46
Nope! It's called the 'Ignore List' ....

This +1

navyhmc
03-04-2012, 07:09
You folks can't leave this thread, or if you do, you will back on Big's next one. He is the forum focus, he owns it. BR

More's the pity.

navyhmc
03-04-2012, 07:35
BTW, most folks here know that while you are conscious, you can not really get a full lung of water, right? I hope Big knows that while you're conscious, you will have a "Dry drowning" that is a laryngospasms closes off you lungs and you don't get fluid in the lungs until after the spasms relax. Stomach full of water? Yes, lungs? No.

And big: You didn't "Work through any problems" You... I don't know what you did, but it wasn't working though the problems.

I really, really hate to say this as it would usually be reserved for "that other board" and is hard for me to say as it goes against my nature, but Bigman241, you need to get a different hobby. To quote Iceman (Val Kilmer) from "Top Gun": " You're everyone's problem. That's because every time you go up in the air, you're unsafe. I don't like you because you're dangerous."

You are on a one way journey to becoming a statistic Big. You need to get your head out of where ever it is and realize that your entire scuba journey needs to be either redone or abandoned. Period!!! You've done some stupid mistakes on easy dives and got away with them, you've posted a number of dives where you were extremely lucky to have survived, you're getting into bigger waters and it shows you don't know what you're doing. You are a dangerous diver, and you're dangerous to those around you.

I say I hate to write this because I don't want to sound eliteist or cliqueish or the best of the best because I know I'm not, I'm jsut a diver who's been around for more than a few years, made my share of mistakes that I learned from and have a desire to share this addiction, but do so safely.

DivingCRNA
03-04-2012, 07:54
didn't anyone notice that supposedly getting the crap scared out of him improved his spelling & grammar dramatically?

No. They still suck.

DivingCRNA
03-04-2012, 08:36
No. They still suck.


on a side note, I think in the end what saved me was the fact of knowing it was time to call the dive. The rest of it came after that decision. that wreck is not going anywhere, whats the point in seeing it if I am not coming back up.

No. Wrong, wrong, WRONG!

What saved you was someone on the boat being brave/foolish enough to jump into 6 foot seas to rescue a 300+ pound stroke who had no business being out there on the boat with SCUBA gear. That rescuer would have been justified in invoking rule #1.

Please, return to Indiana, retake your basic SCUBA cert, and dive quarries until you do so for a year without incident. Stay away from girls that just had someone else's baby while you are doing this.

Or just sell your gear and take up skydiving. If you think we are nuts about safety, you need to meet those guys!

Please.

cyclone3565
03-04-2012, 09:17
Navy - Thank you and extremely well said ++1

Zeagle Eagle
03-04-2012, 09:19
I am not Joe Diver 'nor Jacque Cousteau. I am just your average diver. I still make stupid mistakes I do have 40 years of diving under my belt; however, with that being said I can recognize a train coming down the tracks. I agree with Navy in his post #33 above.

I just have this niggling feeling that Tim is a "virtual diver".

cyclone3565
03-04-2012, 09:29
Zeagle +1 there as well, he should be visual diver, that way no-one will risk their own life

Charon
03-04-2012, 09:32
Glad you're okay, but this was absolutely ridiculous. You knew you were not prepared for this dive and many on this forum also told you. Shame on you for putting yourself in this situation. This isn't what diving is all about.

Sorry,

Snagel

He not only endangered himself but ALSO everone else in the water and on the boat. Too bad thay can't revoke his cert.

Also, this D**S**t has a post about buying a doubles setup to split into singles. I don't think he'd be safe in a bathtub. Get out the water, big.

If I was in the same ocean with him I'd be taking a good look at what I wanted to salvage for myself after he drowned. No way I'd get near him if he was in trouble.

Diver Kat
03-04-2012, 11:26
Navy - Thank you and extremely well said ++1
Ditto!!

below sea level
03-04-2012, 12:39
Too bad thay can't revoke his cert.

No, but if this trend continues and a boat captain complains, they will take a good look at the instructor who signed off on it in the first place.

Herbdb
03-04-2012, 15:39
Isn't he AOW certified? He would not have been on a deep boat without it in the Keys.

More than one instructor could be involved.

navyhmc
03-04-2012, 15:42
No, but if this trend continues and a boat captain complains, they will take a good look at the instructor who signed off on it in the first place.

Which could be an unfortunate thing. It's not always the intructor:

Not diving related, but years ago, I had a paramedic student that always did things...well, differently at least at first. He was properly instructed and while he had issues in his field internship, he would eventually do things the correct way after several instense and somtimes prolonged counselling sessions. In the end, he did perfrom well and did things the right way. But AFTER he got his patch, he immediately disregarded all the teaching he had and went back to his way because he knew better than paramedics with 10 and 15 years experience. He eventually lost his certification because he did the wrong thing at the wrong time and to the wrong patient.

bfmorgan
03-04-2012, 15:54
Isn't he AOW certified? He would not have been on a deep boat without it in the Keys.

More than one instructor could be involved.
Some of his early posts indicated his training may not have been up to the standards most of us would want. At the same time, the certification is just that, at that moment, the student answered the questions appropriately and demonstrated the skills at a sufficient level to be "certified". Whether the skills and knowledge are applied appropriately when needed is a whole different subject.

Navy,
One of the reasons that I hang out on this forum is for the quality of the advice that is provided. Post #33 was well done. I hope Big will realize that the post was done with care and concern..... we don't want a train wreck or Big to become a statistic.

FoxHound
03-04-2012, 20:46
Is big even a real person......too much like a troll


If in fact he is a real person, he already is a train wreck. Navy hit the nail on the head and i'll just leave it at that.

chinacat46
03-05-2012, 06:32
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/426133_154892224631622_100003325360498_211523_1357 544662_n.jpg

wheelman
03-05-2012, 08:40
I've followed most of the Big stupid stunts and posts. I think this was an example, as most all of his decisions, to go from zero to hero. He wants to circumvent training and experience. Sounds like it almost cost him his life (who actually knows). If he would have suceeded with this dive, he would have continued building this little circle of normalization of deviance. Tim, if your real, pick out a new hobby. There are plenty of others that are expensive and aren't as hazzardous if something should go wrong or you get out of bounds. They won't put others in harms way either.

navyhmc
03-05-2012, 11:34
I do believe you are right wheelman. Which is why I've been more and more reluctant to respond to his antics. However, there are times I feel that a reply is needed. More for the sake of other newer divers than for him.

Charon
03-05-2012, 13:23
I do believe you are right wheelman. Which is why I've been more and more reluctant to respond to his antics. However, there are times I feel that a reply is needed. More for the sake of other newer divers than for him.

Right on. New divers can benefit from an example of total irresponsibility and incompetance. It's a message of DON"T DO THIS!

bennerman
03-05-2012, 13:56
Charon, your username is oddly appropriate for this thread/situation

This is the extent of what I will reply in this thread

TwistedSister209
03-05-2012, 16:13
I appreciate the thoughtful response from Navy--not for Biggie because he won't listen or learn--but newbies to the forum need to see what is really out there for the good and bad divers. I've made some really stupid mistakes, I've learned from them, and things/advice I've read here have helped also.
I'd noticed on another one of Big's threads that new to our forum were adding comments.

Unless video/photo proof is given--more than his avatar--I'm wondering if his adventures aren't just wild stories.

Rich Keller
03-05-2012, 17:48
The average person learns from their mistakes. A smart person learns from other peoples mistakes. This type of post is useful regardless of what you think of the person who posted it.

Bigg_Budd
03-05-2012, 19:23
i'd dive with big. solo, of course.

BRsnow
03-05-2012, 19:33
He is the hottest topic on ST because he allows everyone to preach and feel better about themselves. He is here to allow others to feel more important. It is a co-dependent relationship. I enjoy reading it. BR

snagel
03-05-2012, 20:11
I've actually kind of enjoyed tuning into "As the Big Turns". However, this recent event sent me over the edge.

Zeagle Eagle
03-05-2012, 22:13
He is the hottest topic on ST because he allows everyone to preach and feel better about themselves. He is here to allow others to feel more important. It is a co-dependent relationship. I enjoy reading it. BR

PsychoBabble! or better yet Psycho Bubble!

Aquatrax
03-06-2012, 05:11
He is the hottest topic on ST because he allows everyone to preach and feel better about themselves. He is here to allow others to feel more important. It is a co-dependent relationship. I enjoy reading it. BR

LOL, yeah, this wasn't preachy... Tell us, do you feel more important and better about yourself?

BRsnow
03-06-2012, 07:09
LOL, yeah, this wasn't preachy... Tell us, do you feel more important and better about yourself?

Nope, I appreciate the entertainment. BR

Charon
03-06-2012, 13:22
i'd dive with big. solo, of course.

Yep, me too! He seems to buy upscale equipment that I could strip from his cold dead body after his eventual, unavoidable, definitly in the future fatal event.

navyhmc
03-06-2012, 16:07
Yep, me too! He seems to buy upscale equipment that I could strip from his cold dead body after his eventual, unavoidable, definitly in the future fatal event.

Adds meaning to the old military slogan: "You die first, we're splittin' up your gear"

But then there's that darn investigation and evidence and all that stuff that gets in the way.

ScottW
03-06-2012, 16:52
Nothing to add to the conversation so I'm outta here for another few weeks until the next installment of Biggies Big Adventure returns.

navyhmc
03-06-2012, 17:06
Nothing to add to the conversation so I'm outta here for another few weeks until the next installment of Biggies Big Adventure returns.

You avatar is appropriate: Diving off into the sunset!

cyclone3565
03-06-2012, 19:33
Hats off to the Rescue diver, that risked her life to haul is @#$ $%^ in. It is a shame that she was put in that position by his ignorance.

BRsnow
03-06-2012, 19:37
Hats off to the Rescue diver, that risked her life to haul is @#$ $%^ in. It is a shame that she was put in that position by his ignorance.

I think you are little late to the game, numerous others pointed that out earlier. BR

cyclone3565
03-06-2012, 19:40
I apologize, I have been working 16 hour days, and did not read through every post in detail.

BRsnow
03-06-2012, 19:42
I apologize, I have been working 16 hour days, and did not read through every post in detail.

It is all good. BR

navyhmc
03-06-2012, 19:56
I apologize, I have been working 16 hour days, and did not read through every post in detail.

I feel your pain cyclone. At least I can get on the forum at work if I'm not running calls. Keep on keeping on.

snagel
03-07-2012, 06:22
So, now we know how Navy got over 12,000 posts....he's being paid to do it.

navyhmc
03-07-2012, 06:39
Oh no, my secret is out...someone will have to kill me now.

gNats
03-07-2012, 21:24
That secret has been out for a while

PACKRMAN
03-08-2012, 12:52
Its better to have Navy posting than riding in that bus with the flashy light on it.

Straegen
03-08-2012, 15:42
Oddly this life lesson has little to do with advanced diving on something like the Grove. What happened here could have happened on some standard rec dives where the current was stronger than expected. I also would not dive an advanced dive with untested gear and configurations. Bolting on stuff and constantly switching gear without testing is a sure fire way to cause issues like these.

I say keep diving, but do more rec dives and less pushing the envelop. Dives like the Grove aren't going anywhere and you won't enjoy them any less down the road. This isn't a race... enjoy the journey.

IMO, spend some time with Kevin at Underwater Explorers. Not only are the dives fantastic, he gives great feedback on skills that could use improvement. He watches divers and any guy that can stay at 60' for 2 hours on an AL80, has a few thousand dives under his belt and still loves to dive and instruct can teach a fellow something. He certainly won't put you on a dive until you are ready. Our first dive on the Castor had him going in to check the currents and making sure they weren't too strong for our first deep dive.

Smashee
03-08-2012, 16:10
Its better to have Navy posting than riding in that bus with the flashy light on it.

That's the bus taking him to that place where the jackets have very long sleeves that fasten around the back, right?

navyhmc
03-08-2012, 18:55
That's the bus taking him to that place where the jackets have very long sleeves that fasten around the back, right?

Could be Smashee...could be. OH Nurse, when do I get to take my medication again???

cyclone3565
03-12-2012, 19:25
Notice how he always seems to disappear after a post. :smiley35:

snagel
03-12-2012, 20:02
He hasn't posted on this thread since the day the original post went up. I guess I can't blame him with so many responding about how stupid this dive attempt was. I just don't know anymore. Big's been so enthusiastic about diving and many of us thought he would probably burn out quickly.

cyclone3565
03-12-2012, 20:26
He appeared enthusiastic, but when it came down to it I am glad I never dove with him and even more relieved I was not his instructor. I do believe he is much better off with a different hobby. If he want to spend lots of money there is always coin collecting