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View Full Version : Steel Pony (yes another pony question)



skdvr
09-21-2007, 07:44
In all my searches for a pony bottle I have come across steel pony bottles sold by XS scuba you can look at them here (http://www.xsscuba.com/tank_steel_specs.html). I like the size of the 40 but I think that the weight would be to much. So I am curious if anyone has dove them before and what you thought about them...

Phil

crpntr133
09-21-2007, 14:20
Yep the weight is usually the issue with a steel pony. Not saying that you are going to kill yourself of anything like that.

ScaredSilly
09-21-2007, 16:05
Yikes -6 neg. That is more than my LP 85s. I guess it would be fine if you want to take some lead off but otherwise ... I would leave it at the mouth of a cave for the return (Not that I do cave diving).

jo8243
09-21-2007, 16:13
With that much neg. buoyancy I'd think you might have some trim problems.

jo8243
09-21-2007, 16:14
What kind of diving are you going to do with your pony?

crpntr133
09-21-2007, 16:58
Not only trim but..if you are set up to donate the pony then theoretically you are carrying 6lbs extra (the pony). With a AL you are only carrying the a couple. I bet I lost somebody on this one.

in_cavediver
09-21-2007, 20:32
I use a Faber 45 as an O2 bottle. Its heavy, more so than a full 80 underwater. I like it because of the transfill for gas. At 2400 psi, I still get a lot of O2. It is quite noticible. I'd say go with the AL equivalent for a pony.

And for the record, many of my deco dives where I carry it, I do leave it at the mouth of a cave.

jo8243
09-21-2007, 20:43
Not only trim but..if you are set up to donate the pony then theoretically you are carrying 6lbs extra (the pony). With a AL you are only carrying the a couple. I bet I lost somebody on this one.

"Why am I suddenly going upwards??"
:smiley36:

skdvr
09-21-2007, 22:11
What kind of diving are you going to do with your pony?


Just deeper rec diving, some with some pretty nasty vis. No deco or cave (not for a few more years)



Not only trim but..if you are set up to donate the pony then theoretically you are carrying 6lbs extra (the pony). With a AL you are only carrying the a couple. I bet I lost somebody on this one.

I follow you. I am either going to be very heavy if I am weighted properly to hand off the pony which hopefully will not happen very if ever and if I am weighted correctly with the pony hanging on me and just taking weight off my belt than if I do have to hand it off, I will be to lite.

I think that I am going to stick with AL 40. I just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them...

Phil

crpntr133
09-21-2007, 22:56
You shouldn't take the weight off your belt for the pony. In an emergency and the pony is donated, your going up and probably fast. If the pony is being donated then that means that your buddy needs you with him and not at the surface in worse condition than him.
Or lets put it another way for those that don't think they will ever donate their pony. On a dive your pony gets tangled in (fill in the blank). The only way out of it is to remove the pony. So your buddy takes the pony from you and you go bye, bye.
When diving a pony switch a few lbs to the other side if needed. Don't take the weight off.

jo8243
09-21-2007, 23:06
I think an AL 19 would be fine for the diving you're gonna do. It's not very negative when full, either. Probably costs a lot less than a steel tank, too.

crpntr133
09-22-2007, 00:13
If the OP is thinking about doing deco then a 40. A 13 or 19 above 100" will get you back with gas for a safety stop. There are a couple threads around about that as well.

skdvr
09-22-2007, 05:37
If the OP is thinking about doing deco then a 40. A 13 or 19 above 100" will get you back with gas for a safety stop. There are a couple threads around about that as well.

I am not doing Deco as of right now but it is something that interest me and I am thinking about it for the future so I will spend the extra few bucks and get the 40 now I think. I think that it is only like $15.00 more for the 40 over the 19. In a way I would like to get the 19 because it is smaller but this is air we are talking about so bigger cannot hurt.

Thanks for all the reply's

Phil

crpntr133
09-22-2007, 14:05
No problem, just wanting to through that info out just in case.

quasimoto
09-22-2007, 16:10
13 or 19 for rec..40 for tec.

in_cavediver
09-23-2007, 09:24
What kind of diving are you going to do with your pony?


Just deeper rec diving, some with some pretty nasty vis. No deco or cave (not for a few more years)



Not only trim but..if you are set up to donate the pony then theoretically you are carrying 6lbs extra (the pony). With a AL you are only carrying the a couple. I bet I lost somebody on this one.

I follow you. I am either going to be very heavy if I am weighted properly to hand off the pony which hopefully will not happen very if ever and if I am weighted correctly with the pony hanging on me and just taking weight off my belt than if I do have to hand it off, I will be to lite.

I think that I am going to stick with AL 40. I just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with them...

Phil

Just one question - why hand off the pony? Put a 40" hose on it and rig it like a stage.

Second part about weighting. If you never give up your pony, take the weight off your belt. With that, at depth, if entangled, you still should be overweighted enough due to gas weight and exposure protection shrinkage to be neutral if not negative.

Still, from a purely comfort standpoint, an AL 40 is nicer to carry than a steel 40-45.

crpntr133
09-23-2007, 09:52
Ok as a cave diver you take the pony to the cave mouth and drop it there. I assume that you guys do this? As a wreck diver you and the pony won't fit through the opening so you drop it.
If you are diving a 13 or 19 I could buy the taking of the extra weight off. What are we talking a pound or two. In the case with the OP wanting info on the steel 40 which is 6lbs negative, I don't think so. Might try it with doubles but most of us like to be close to neutral with no extra lead at the end of a dive. Don't count on your gas being your savor.
Neutral at the end of a dive and for some totally asinine reason the world is coming to an end and the only way to save yourself is to ditch your pony. Six lbs negative or 6lbs positive, which do you want to be?

in_cavediver
09-23-2007, 10:06
Ok as a cave diver you take the pony to the cave mouth and drop it there. I assume that you guys do this? As a wreck diver you and the pony won't fit through the opening so you drop it.
If you are diving a 13 or 19 I could buy the taking of the extra weight off. What are we talking a pound or two. In the case with the OP wanting info on the steel 40 which is 6lbs negative, I don't think so. Might try it with doubles but most of us like to be close to neutral with no extra lead at the end of a dive. Don't count on your gas being your savor.
Neutral at the end of a dive and for some totally asinine reason the world is coming to an end and the only way to save yourself is to ditch your pony. Six lbs negative or 6lbs positive, which do you want to be?

I guess I come from a different perspective. I start many dives with 12-18lbs negative (all gas) if not more. The last thing I want to do is carry more negative wieght if I don't have to. (I do sometimes carry all of the tanks on a dive as well - wrecks)

I do see your point about ditching and I'd concede for 6lbs, I wouldn't adjust the weights to account for a slung pony. That said, if it was tank mounted not slung, I most certainly would drop those 6lbs.

Lastly, when talking about gear ditching, at this point, you should be pretty far down your list of O craps that surviving is the primary concern. I'm not sure I sacrifice the streamlining/comfort of less weight for the rare chance I'd need that weight to ditch a pony and want to do something other than a buoyant ascent. This is a personal risk management decision that each diver should make for themselves.

quasimoto
09-23-2007, 18:17
I thought this was going to turn ugly for a minute. I took a swim through the deco stop to see what "the pros" had to say. It seems that if it is a 13 or 19 then take the weight off if you know you are properly weighted. Your only talking a couple lbs max anyway. If it is anything bigger than a 19 then you should keep the weight. Shift it if need be so that you aren't swimming sideways.
I agree with this. It only makes sense that in case you would need to doof momentarily, hand off or what ever, your pony that you would want to go positive. This is just basic math thoughts and nothing else.
I'm sure that if I was lugging two or three AL80's down for stages then I wouldn't want to take that extra few lbs off me.

Where did the ditching gear thing come in I missed that one? I've seen donate and doff. Maybe I am missing something with the posting and not verbal.

in_cavediver
09-23-2007, 19:44
Where did the ditching gear thing come in I missed that one? I've seen donate and doff. Maybe I am missing something with the posting and not verbal.

I think the dropping etc came in with comparisons to stages and deco bottles which have decidedly different roles and procedures than a traditional pony. (some of that likely was my fault as I said I used a steel 45 as a deco bottle).

I personally still don't get the 'hand off' a pony though. I don't get why you'd want to 'disconnect' from a controlled diver in an air share situation. (which, if breathing from your octo, they are likely to remain).

As for civility - why would it turn ugly? Its always good to hash out differences in philosophy and gear config/procedures. I've changed many things over time in what I do from some simple conversations with other divers, of all skill/experience levels. I'm personally always ready to hear a better/different way to do something.

crpntr133
09-23-2007, 21:29
I think we have both seen the light.

There are times that something is right but then others that it is "not so right".