PDA

View Full Version : HUGE Freakin' Problem here



danielh03
09-23-2007, 16:13
Hey guys, I dont know were else to get good advice on all things related scuba, except for this board. Maybe some of you can give me a few Ideas here. My wife and I have been in an ANDI scuba course since JULY. He have spent HOURS and HOURS in the pool doing training, and have even done our first 3 check out dives. Our instructor has given us one excuse after another why he has drug a 4 week class out over 3 months. Well today was the big day. My wife and I awoke at 5 am, drove 2 1/2 hours to Mermet springs (great for snorkeling I have found out), and our dive instructor sent a message with the other divers meeting us up there that he will be running a few minutes late..... 5 hours later I get discusted and leave! Drive 2 1/12 hours home, and still not a word out of him. I love the feeling of diving, (lucky for me that i have friends that would take me out to small creeks that were deep enough as i was growing up that i learned alot about diving), but this is outragous. What can I do? starting over with another agencey is not an acceptable option being the cost involved for not just one person, but 2. I want to walk away from this guy and is LDS, but I feel like I am stuck.

Kidder
09-23-2007, 16:21
Whoa, that is bad. My guess is that there is some reason he can't certify you. I would call PADI right away. Souds like you have already paid. The LDS should certify you and give you your money back.

danielh03
09-23-2007, 16:27
Whoa, that is bad. My guess is that there is some reason he can't certify you. I would call PADI right away. Souds like you have already paid. The LDS should certify you and give you your money back.


Its not that he can't, its he wont. I am fit, done 3 dives with NO problems at all, and he has even complimented me on my ability to maintain a set depth.... My wife and I have not had one problem with diving, have completed all the skills test on the first try, never had to retrain for anything. I almost have my entire dive set up bought as well. First time he resheduled class I understood. The second time... I was agervated. Then he wanted to spend an extra day in the pool because one of the other students was not ready according to him, so i enjoyed the extra pool time. I spent alot of time working with my wife, and getting used to diving with her. Its almost enough to discust me to the point of giving up. Note I said ALMOST.

chinacat46
09-23-2007, 16:31
Calling PADI will do no good as he is training with ANDI. Contacting ANDI might help. I'd ask for my money back after this last episode.

jo8243
09-23-2007, 16:36
I'd just dump him and find a new instructor/shop. Try to get your money back if possible and if you can't there's always either forgetting about it or small claims court..

Kidder
09-23-2007, 16:41
Calling PADI will do no good as he is training with ANDI. Contacting ANDI might help. I'd ask for my money back after this last episode.

Yup PADI would not be a good idea. :smiley2: I must have PADI on the brain.

awap
09-23-2007, 16:47
If you put it on a credit card, call the credit card company and discuss refunding the charge.

danielh03
09-23-2007, 16:48
If you put it on a credit card, call the credit card company and discuss refunding the charge.


Mostly a cash man myself... never thought it would bite me in the butt!

WV Diver
09-23-2007, 16:54
Sonds like he might have an issue with his instructor license to me and maybe he has let his credentials slip somewhere along the way and can't finalize with you because of it. Whatever the reason I would be looking into him with his agency pronto. No agency will put up with such nonsense without a through investigation. If he is linked directly with an LDS oo other dive op I would be speaking with the owner also.

Kidder
09-23-2007, 16:59
Sonds like he might have an issue with his instructor license to me and maybe he has let his credentials slip somewhere along the way and can't finalize with you because of it. Whatever the reason I would be looking into him with his agency pronto. No agency will put up with such nonsense without a through investigation. If he is linked directly with an LDS oo other dive op I would be speaking with the owner also.

Yup my thoughts exactly. His excuses are all too telling.

danielh03
09-23-2007, 17:01
We have a law that covers that kind of thing here... "Theft by deception" and with it being over 500 dollars, thats a criminal warrent in my state

WV Diver
09-23-2007, 17:08
Just don't do your sig. line. :anim_rail: :smilie39:

quasimoto
09-23-2007, 17:09
I agree to call ANDI and report him. Don't drum up what eh has done just give them the facts and let them decide. As for getting your money back..might try getting it from the LDS before you call ANDI just to cover your butt.
I have a question to further this discussion...how fast can you run away from this shop?? :D

danielh03
09-23-2007, 17:11
I agree to call ANDI and report him. Don't drum up what eh has done just give them the facts and let them decide. As for getting your money back..might try getting it from the LDS before you call ANDI just to cover your butt.
I have a question to further this discussion...how fast can you run away from this shop?? :D

Well, I have to drive 20 miles to his shop, or I could drive 25 miles the other direction to get fills in the future! No other LDS for about 100 miles. But I haven't bought anything from him other than a retractor (which was way over priced!).

danielh03
09-23-2007, 17:13
Just don't do your sig. line. :anim_rail: :smilie39:


way tempting.... should i use my duty weapon?

JCAT
09-23-2007, 17:18
Agree with WV Diver (http://forum.scubatoys.com/member.php?u=708). Something is up with this instructor or LDS. Start doing some investigating by calling the agency.

finflippers
09-23-2007, 17:36
If you don't mind starting over with another shop (if you can get your money back) then I would contact him and just tell him that he is taking way to long and you would like a full refund so you can go get certified. If he refuses tell him that you will contact ANDI, BBB, and your local law enforcement for theft.

If he wants to get on the ball and finish your certification I would want to have at least 50% of your cost back.

danielh03
09-23-2007, 17:38
What I am wondering, is there away to roll my training over?

WV Diver
09-23-2007, 17:42
What I am wondering, is there away to roll my training over?You can ask him to do the paper work so you can do a referral to another shop. Good idea. There is cost involved but better than losing all you have already invested and getting nothing in return. This also gives him an out if he does indeed have a problem with his credentials as we discussed earlier.

finflippers
09-23-2007, 17:48
What I am wondering, is there away to roll my training over?You can ask him to do the paper work so you can do a referral to another shop. Good idea. There is cost involved but better than losing all you have already invested and getting nothing in return. This also gives him an out if he does indeed have a problem with his credentials as we discussed earlier.

If his credentials is no good then his referral would be no good either.

danielh03
09-23-2007, 18:11
What I am wondering, is there away to roll my training over?You can ask him to do the paper work so you can do a referral to another shop. Good idea. There is cost involved but better than losing all you have already invested and getting nothing in return. This also gives him an out if he does indeed have a problem with his credentials as we discussed earlier.

If his credentials is no good then his referral would be no good either.


I hope his credentials are good, I just know that I will not be doing any more business with him.

chinacat46
09-23-2007, 18:16
What I am wondering, is there away to roll my training over?You can ask him to do the paper work so you can do a referral to another shop. Good idea. There is cost involved but better than losing all you have already invested and getting nothing in return. This also gives him an out if he does indeed have a problem with his credentials as we discussed earlier.

If his credentials is no good then his referral would be no good either.

Yeah that is true but if you go to another agency what are the chances they would actually find out. They would probably have to do all there open water dives again with the other agency regardless.

danielh03
09-23-2007, 18:28
Is it really worth the trouble lol? Now that I set back, drink a few (6) beers, it really doesnt seem to bad.... wait, now the thought of money is hitting me.... yea its that bad lol. Guess I have to keep a good sense of humor about it

DivingsInMyBlood
09-23-2007, 18:51
Hey guys, I dont know were else to get good advice on all things related scuba, except for this board. Maybe some of you can give me a few Ideas here. My wife and I have been in an ANDI scuba course since JULY. He have spent HOURS and HOURS in the pool doing training, and have even done our first 3 check out dives. Our instructor has given us one excuse after another why he has drug a 4 week class out over 3 months. Well today was the big day. My wife and I awoke at 5 am, drove 2 1/2 hours to Mermet springs (great for snorkeling I have found out), and our dive instructor sent a message with the other divers meeting us up there that he will be running a few minutes late..... 5 hours later I get discusted and leave! Drive 2 1/12 hours home, and still not a word out of him. I love the feeling of diving, (lucky for me that i have friends that would take me out to small creeks that were deep enough as i was growing up that i learned alot about diving), but this is outragous. What can I do? starting over with another agencey is not an acceptable option being the cost involved for not just one person, but 2. I want to walk away from this guy and is LDS, but I feel like I am stuck.

My first instructor was really bad and wouldnt return calls after he promised to take us out, would lie about when we would do checkout dives, leave the store early etc. He got fired by the store owner and then the owner took us out and finished our course.

WV Diver
09-23-2007, 18:52
What I am wondering, is there away to roll my training over?You can ask him to do the paper work so you can do a referral to another shop. Good idea. There is cost involved but better than losing all you have already invested and getting nothing in return. This also gives him an out if he does indeed have a problem with his credentials as we discussed earlier.

If his credentials is no good then his referral would be no good either. This is probably true, but I was thinking it could also slip through the cracks since he would not be the instructor on the OW cert. application. I'm not sure, I'm a DM.

danielh03
09-23-2007, 19:03
sucks when they are owner operator!

scubasavvy
09-23-2007, 20:58
By law I do believe that he has to give you a referral. Get that, move on and then call ANDI...

skdvr
09-23-2007, 21:01
I would definately ask for my money back and then contact his agency. If you can get a referal out of the deal and maybe pay a little just for that and then go back to Mermet and do your referal dives there. Well I am not sure how that would work with the training agencies offered at Mermet. I know that they do Padi courses and I think Naui. You could call Glen up there and talk to him about it. From the sounds of it you are in law enforcement and so is Glen (The owner of Mermet) so maybe he can help you out a little...

Phil

crpntr133
09-23-2007, 21:02
If nothing else hope that ANDI will at least help you with getting set up with another instructor. I smell someone not teaching for long.

tbuckalew
09-23-2007, 21:33
There are a number of steps you can take. It really sounds like you are being given the run-around though.

1) Contact your instructor and inform him of your displeasure and the steps required to finish your certification. Don't be confrontational, just calm and factful. Tell him that you wish to have a firm schedule of completion dates, a list of skills/tests left to complete, and a guarantee of completion with dates. Be sure to keep a record of the dates, times, and conversations (of all steps).

2) If he either refuses, or does not live up to the promises, inform him that you will send a formal complaint to the local Better Business Bureau, local Chamber of Commerce, ANDI, and (possibly) local officials due to his inability to deliver the services paid for.

3) Take the step of contacting ANDI to inquire about his credentials

4) If he is unwilling to lay out a firm schedule for completion (with dates), does but fails to finish you up, or scoffs at your notification of the actions you will take, take the next steps of contacting all of the above in writing. ANDI's contact page is here with emails, names, addresses, and phone numbers: http://www.andihq.com/pages/contact.html

5) If you have no resolution, there is always the final step of a small claim. The claim would be for the lost funds so you can take the class elsewhere, costs of travel associated with the course taken so far, and (of course) reimbursement of your actual legal fees. It is a drastic step to take, but it is within your legal rights.

cummings66
09-23-2007, 21:56
To be honest I'd be very upset, I probably wouldn't have let it drag on this long either. You must be a good trusting person to let it go this long. However, enough is enough. First thing Monday make the phone call and inquire as to what happened to him, call the LDS first and get their reaction. Follow up with letters, letters are always good and make sure to mail them certified mail for tracking purposes. You've got to establish a paper trail otherwise they'll say they never got them and you can't prove otherwise.

Get busy and post back what they said tomorrow.

Steve Scuba
09-23-2007, 22:17
Some great advice. The only thing I can add would be to also consider contacting the Better Business Bureau (http://www.bbb.org) (www.bbb.org) If this instructor is affiliated with the LDS, the LDS is responsible for him. Many a business owner will snap to, when the BBB is mentioned. The BBB may have nothing to do with scuba, but the LDS is just a business.

danielh03
09-24-2007, 11:10
My instructor contacted me today, finaly! lol. Anyhow, we had a very long talk, and he explained what happened. His reasons were acceptabel to both my wife and I. We agreed to give it one more shot. I get to pick the dive day, time, and place. (when i say "i", you know who i really mean lol). It was made known that i do have another instructor ready to take a refferal, and he would be responsable for any cost that would incure. I guess I have to give a little to get a little lol

Buoyant1
09-24-2007, 11:14
Isn't there another instuctor with the shop, or is this an independant guy teaching?

danielh03
09-24-2007, 12:59
Isn't there another instuctor with the shop, or is this an independant guy teaching?

Independant. But I have covered my butt on this one. I have everything in order for a referal now should it go south.

finflippers
09-24-2007, 13:24
Glad to see that it is finally working out.

I sure hope that he is willing to do more then just finish your certs for all the troubles he has put you through not to mention waisted gas in your vehicle. If he isn't giving you a partial refund maybe free air for a year or something.

danielh03
09-24-2007, 13:51
I agree, but I am going to take it one step at a time. I will just be glad to get done with all this so I can start enjoying diving, not stressing about it! I decided to get certified because i felt it would be relaxing..... gee, didn't work out as planned. But on the bright side, I won't have to fight about it anymore!

WV Diver
09-24-2007, 14:25
My instructor contacted me today, finaly! lol. Anyhow, we had a very long talk, and he explained what happened. His reasons were acceptabel to both my wife and I. We agreed to give it one more shot. I get to pick the dive day, time, and place. (when i say "i", you know who i really mean lol). It was made known that i do have another instructor ready to take a refferal, and he would be responsable for any cost that would incure. I guess I have to give a little to get a little lol

Great news. Keep us posted. I hope things work out for you guys and I hope the board was some good help to you.

crpntr133
09-24-2007, 16:59
Boy that was pretty quick. Just hope that things go your way. This month for me has been full of those "sure that is no problem"..ya right. It's not a problem it's a stinkin nightmare.

diverdad
09-24-2007, 20:44
I'm glad you have it straightened out it is sad to hear that there are people like that in this buisness.

Kidder
09-24-2007, 20:48
I hope it works out for you, but he still owes you for being patient and not reporting him.

danielh03
09-25-2007, 00:14
The board was a huge help! So many ideas and points of view really put things in perspective.



My instructor contacted me today, finaly! lol. Anyhow, we had a very long talk, and he explained what happened. His reasons were acceptabel to both my wife and I. We agreed to give it one more shot. I get to pick the dive day, time, and place. (when i say "i", you know who i really mean lol). It was made known that i do have another instructor ready to take a refferal, and he would be responsable for any cost that would incure. I guess I have to give a little to get a little lol

Great news. Keep us posted. I hope things work out for you guys and I hope the board was some good help to you.

skdvr
09-25-2007, 05:41
Great, keep us posted and let us know when you finish up...

Phil

danielh03
09-25-2007, 09:31
Great, keep us posted and let us know when you finish up...

Phil


Phil, should be finishing up this saturday morning, at Mermet

skdvr
09-25-2007, 11:37
Hey if you guys are going to stick around on Sun I will be there doing my drysuit course. I should hopefully be done with the course around noon or so and then I would be up for a dive maybe two after that.

Phil

cyclone
09-25-2007, 23:49
Good to hear that your already settled. Hmmp!!! I was about to expand, spikes out, fangs out, nails sharpened, eyes turned red, hisses and ready to attack if your trainer still don't show up. LOL:smiley2::smilie39:

danielh03
09-26-2007, 00:43
Hey if you guys are going to stick around on Sun I will be there doing my drysuit course. I should hopefully be done with the course around noon or so and then I would be up for a dive maybe two after that.

Phil

Afraid not this sunday, but I will be up there on the 7th working with a new full face mask and commo setup. Gotta get a day of beer drinking in, and i wont drink on a dive day or the day before... just seems like bad carma to me.

skdvr
09-26-2007, 04:35
i wont drink on a dive day or the day before... just seems like bad carma to me.

That is a good idea...

I am sure we will run into each other sometime there...

Phil

DZorn00
09-26-2007, 06:12
Agree with WV Diver (http://forum.scubatoys.com/member.php?u=708). Something is up with this instructor or LDS. Start doing some investigating by calling the agency.

Go after the LDS he is associated with first then go to the agency, they will tell you to do that any ways. If you want your money back don't just go after the instructor go after the LDS and the instructor individually, this usually makes the LDS pony up the refund and get rid of the instructor.

danielh03
10-01-2007, 11:35
Just an update: We completed all of our OW dives this past weekend. Everything went very smooth.

finflippers
10-01-2007, 11:40
Congratulation on completing your OW. I am glad to hear that everything has worked out good for you.

Kingpatzer
10-01-2007, 11:42
Frankly, I'd have gotten a lawyer involved.

If there's a issue with his instructor status, then he's engaged in fraud. He could well be liable not only for the cost of the course, but also the time and other costs he's caused you to incur, including the legal fees.

skdvr
10-01-2007, 12:48
I bet you are glad that is over....

Phil

dallasdivergirl
10-01-2007, 12:54
That is great news! I
am sure you are glad this is all over & you are certified. :)

divechaplain-sara
10-01-2007, 14:44
I'm glad it finally worked out. I know it must have been very frustrating. Now, just make sure he gets the paper work in for you to get your certification card. My OW class went well, but months went by and no certification card. My instructor had to reapply--my certification card says that I was certified March 5, 2003 but I was really certified five months earlier than that on October 6, 2002. It still bums me that my specialty and AOW cards all say that I've been diving since 2003 instead of 2002.

tbuckalew
10-01-2007, 15:27
Good to hear that you made significant progress!

Let us know when things are all done and you can blow bubbles with the rest of us!