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View Full Version : why do LDS's feel the need to bad-mouth



mpd525
09-25-2007, 13:07
Here's the story, just recently i went to a LDS to get a dive flag, and a float for it. Originally i had intended on doing my instruction with this store because the instructor was a real good guy, and really patient with my wife. We weren't able to do it there because of scheduling conflicts so we went with another instructor and another agency.

But back to my story, I went to get a float and while i was in there talking to the nice guy, the owner was standing there and asked who we did our OW with and i told him. And he got this sour look on his face, and said "Well don't bother coming here to get tanks or equipment rental, because with your training you don't know tables". I said ok and left it at that. I continued to talk to the nice guy, and we got to talking about my future aspirations, which included someday possibly getting into Tech diving. And he said well ask what's his name about the Tech agency, and against my better judgement i did, and he again bad-mouthed for a couple of minutes got sour and walked off. I bought my flag and float and finally left the store.

And just the other day i started a thread (again, against my better judgement), on SB, curious what people thought about the different Tech agencies, i was just curious who people thought had real good programs. And i get a PM from this jerk, correcting a typo, and that i need more expereince and that i need to be ready to spend money on equipment, and yada, yada.

I guess my complaint is, why do most LDS's (trust i know not all of them) feel the need to act like this. I think it's bad for students, i think it's bad for the sport. I understand differences in opinions, but why do alot of these guys want to bust somebody's training agency, or there future goals. I don't understand these practices, and i probably never will.

On one final note. I'm glad i found ST, and i'm glad that the LDS that I use do not act like this. I appreciate all that both do for me, and all my money on SCUBA will be spent with these 2 from now on. Thank you ST, for being the way you are.

subsur
09-25-2007, 13:29
well, so far all LDS i've been to around here have been fine with issues like yours. In fact, I've yet to have a problem with any of them and I hope it stays like that. They don't ask questions to get pissed off by my answers. So, time to change your LDS, i guess, unless you can avoid dealing with that particular person.

quasimoto
09-25-2007, 13:46
I would say that the other guy had a bee in his bonnet for the other shop. This can also be more so since it seems that the other shop is tech. I really don't know why this is either.

My LDS isn't tech and I do go in for fills and such. Since he only carries Oceanic and I've bought most of my gear he isn't going to sell me much. When I got my doubles filled from him he was somewhat surprised. After that he made a really smart remark with an attitude to match it about me diving doubles and being tech. Well since i just finished my rescue class I'm not tec..yet. No I didn't buy the tanks from him and I wouldn't have because I would have paid several hundred more for them.

cgvmer
09-25-2007, 13:50
When the retailer doesn't have any other ammunition they fire negativity. When scheduling, selection, price, service are not in place to challenge their competitors. Rather than selling their product, they attempt to destroy the competitor.
It would be more appropriate to tell you why they are better, rather than telling you why other's are not good. The gets you to dismiss the other (or stand up for it) without viewing this retailer as any better.

WV Diver
09-25-2007, 14:01
I have not had this experience anywhere I have traveled and certainly not with any LDS in my area. They all usually get along and those that don't see eye to eye on everything have enough self respect and professionalism to keep things on a friendly level.

There are many, many reasons this guy may have had this attitude. I'm not sure you will ever know the why and I'm not sure it should matter. I know when I'm not wanted and if he doesn't want your business just leave him alone. Who needs attitude?

mpd525
09-25-2007, 15:12
Well, i just think the whole thing was childish, and i find it kinda funny that the guy sent a PM, and didn't have the guts to do it on the open forum. To me that just shows that he doesn't want people finding out how he treats people.

I've noticed a trend here in oklahoma though. Most of the LDS's dont' get along at all. Very few are cordial with each other. I've been to several about all of them in the 2 major cities. And i've only found about 3 of them, that don't mind the other's. The rest just bad mouth the other's.

I'm not a businessmen, but in my opinion these guys that act this way hurt there selves with this behavior. It's not good for the diving community, and it's not good for consumer either. Just my 2 cents. But i had to rant about it anyway.

mpd525
09-25-2007, 15:13
Oh, and don't worry, i'll never step foot in that place again, i wouldn't care if it was the last shop in a 500 mile radius.

And if it wasn't for Slander issues, i'd probably spot off the name of the shop.

quasimoto
09-25-2007, 15:22
When the retailer doesn't have any other ammunition they fire negativity. When scheduling, selection, price, service are not in place to challenge their competitors. Rather than selling their product, they attempt to destroy the competitor.


This is probably 95% of it.

Charlotte Smith
09-25-2007, 15:34
My friends have had the same experience when I sent them to a LDS to get their gear...needless to say...the store missed out on 2 sets of gear and they postponed the class until they could get it from SToys which is where I got ours, but they were in a hurry....not anymore......

hoop
09-25-2007, 17:06
MPD, I feel your pain... Seems that way all over OKC...... I just thought that was the way it is.... There are two shops here in the city that won't ever see me gracing their doors again..... After browsing around a bit, I was asked if I was there to buy something. After telling them I was just curious as to their selection and what brands they carried, and didn't intend on buying anything THAT DAY, I was given the cold shoulder. They will never have to worry about me taking up their precious time again..

mpd525
09-25-2007, 17:34
Hoop, I know how you feel about the places in OKC too, I was up there about a 2 weeks ago for 3 days, and ran around to the different shops, and only found 2 where the people didn't act like that. I just don't understand it. I've talked to the guy who runs the LDS that i use here, and he said he's tried on several occasions to the shops to form an association, to help us consumers and to create some more dive parks, like Athens and CSSP in Texas, but he said the ego's around here got in way of the best interest of the dive community in oklahoma.


And i would send anybody to his store by the way. He's helpful, doesn't care where you buy gear, and he doesn't bad mouth. As a matter of fact i've tried baiting him into it, just to see what kind of guy he was, but he stood strong. He's a great guy, and i'm glad i walked into his shop.

I'd kinda like to hear Larry or Joe's opinion why shops are like this. Because the I don't see them being like the "rest" either.

Disneymom
09-25-2007, 17:49
Hmmmm.... I wonder if it was the shop here or the shop down there.... you know what I'm talking about.
Shop here I can see it. Shop there I can't 'cuz it's the same agency as your instructor, right?

To answer your question, or at least chime in, I don't understand why they are the way they are. I will get air at shop #1 here (or #2 here for that matter - they're nice) but I'm not 100% comfortable with that LDS. It seems as though its a big competition between shops over whose affiliation is better. Prime example, Larry and Joe have a NAUI shop. They take potshots in fun at PADI, but I don't think they're going to just blatantly tell a person "your training is crap because you trained PADI." Am I right? They are diplomatic and smart enough businessmen to know better. They just happen to prefer and are affiliated with NAUI.
This particular shop, if it's the one I think, it's just his way. Not that I agree or support that kind of business.

If it's LDS #2 here, I'm surprised. If it's the other shop (there), I'm surprised. He openly doesn't care for some of the manufacturers, but he's a decent guy.

At any rate, sorry you got the BS from whomever it was.

greyzen
09-25-2007, 17:53
One thing I love is when business people forget their clientel and get too full of themselves.

LDS's really need to realize that in todays market, information is readily available and the secret to their business models need to be revamped to incorporate customers as the main focus.

If I choose to spend my hard earned dollar, I'm going with the people who treat me like the money I'm giving them is worth it to them. Building relationships with customers is the only way to stay competitive in such a niche market, don't gouge me.. treat me like a member of the family and I'll reward you.

ScubaToys Larry
09-25-2007, 18:16
I have no problem with Padi.. that's how I started... I have no problems with SSI, Nase, YMCA.. you name it. If it gets people diving - I love it! The more divers in the world, the better the industry is. The better the industry is, the better it is for our business.

I used to be part of retailers association here in town - huge joke... One time I couldn't make it, and one of the members put up a motion to have me kicked out of the association... or said they should disband and start another and not invite me to join...

When we were going to do our party in May - it was supposed to be out at CSSP. But the other stores were planning a day out there - and they said if we did our event that day as well - they would boycott the facility. So we did it at our shop instead so as not to interfere with their outing.

Personally, if I would have been one of those shops - I would have wanted as many people to show up at the lake as possible so I could meet new customers - but some folks look at things differently.

So many dive shops feel other dive shops are their enemy and their customers should not even realize they exist. Weird. Car dealerships, restaurants, Home Depot and Lowes always group together as they realize that brings more potential customers into their doors... but as to why dive shops "don't get it?"... I'm not sure.

I've been invited to talk at Dema this year again for Oceanic / Aeris and this very topic is on my agenda. Dive shops are not your enemy. Other places where people spend their recreational dollars are... golf courses, jet ski rentals, rock climbing, mountain bikes, movie theaters etc.

The more people that dive... the better for everyone no matter where they got their gear. They will probably get more. And if they are into scuba, they are probably telling their co-workers that might be closer to another facility and choose to train and purchase there. Customers are too hard to come by to send them out of your store thinking your are a donkeys behind.

Disneymom
09-25-2007, 18:30
well said.




mpd, this wouldn't have been the same LDS who berated a customer in front of other customers for shopping online, would it?

mpd525
09-25-2007, 18:37
No surprisingly enough, no, it's the other one, and not the one that i use. Like i said it wasn't the instructor, it was the owner that acted that way. Larry, i'm glad you don't hold the same attitudes that these other shops do. I applaud you and your staff, you guys "get it". And i think that everyone on here would agree with me.

hoop
09-25-2007, 18:48
The one that really gets me is when you take your tanks in for a fill, and they are all nice and friendly and chatty, UNTIL they are checking the VIP and hydro dates that the OTHER store did for you.... The conversation usually becomes pretty dry........!!

I completely agree with Larry.... If the LDS's banned together as a whole, and promoted the sport, and not competing for sales, the sales would eventually come. A warm body in the shop is better than no bodies!

cudachaser
09-25-2007, 18:54
Well said again Larry...

Joe

mpd525
09-25-2007, 19:19
You hit the nail on the head Hoop. By the way, when you coming down to dive.

Tableleg
09-25-2007, 19:53
and they said if we did our event that day as well - they would boycott the facility. Seriously?!? :smiley5: There are people that shallow? What the heck are they worried about? You guys are going to take their business? Their own actions are doing that, they don't need you to help... :smiley5::smiley2:


LDS's really need to realize that in todays market, information is readily available and the secret to their business models need to be revamped to incorporate customers as the main focus. Scuba diving has such a small audience (compared to other sports that is, I mean we don't exactly have national scuba tournaments or anything [though that would be freakin cool:smiley36:]) if you alienate your customers, you're business surly will fail.

Larry, what would you say brings in more revenue to the shop: Equipment sales or services (like repair or tank fills/rentals)? Either way, I'm not going to spend more money on equipment that I can usually get cheaper at ST or have ANYTHING services from a guy who I think is acting like a 3rd grader. The reason ST gets most of my service is because of the excellent customer service I've gotten from there VS my LDS.

mpd, if I was in your position you described, I wouldn't of even bought the stuff. I would of just walked out. I don't exactly mind spending a little bit more if it's convenient to me (aka ST is 6 hours away and requires a weekend to visit vs. my LDS which I can go get off a shelf right now) but again the 3rd grader thing. I'm not going to reward someone for that behavior by helping their business succeed.

diverdad
09-25-2007, 20:28
All of ya'll have pretty much said it all. I recently have a problem with my LDS. and i might use them for refills put that is about all. I was going to start purchasing some gear for my son who wants to get certified. It looks like ST will get my business.

Zenagirl
09-25-2007, 20:46
Remember the old adage? "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar."

mpd525
09-25-2007, 21:10
tableleg, i sure would have put it back if i could've got it anywhere else. But nobody else had any, my normal LDS was out, and it was on friday and i needed it for that saturday, so i wasn't gonna be able to get it from ST. Poor planning on my part, and your right i should've just put it back. Oh well, i won't let this happen again.

DiverBry
09-25-2007, 21:28
Not long after my certification, I was surprised to learn of this negativity and rivalry between shops. I have never heard it from anyone at my LDS, but I was introduced to some instructors at another diveshop who pretty much bad-mouthed all the other local shops and boorishly extolled the virtues of their instructors, and why I shouldn't entrust my life to anyone but them, due to their vast experience.

After about 5 minutes of nodding my head during their monologue, I finally escaped the conversation, vowing not to go to that shop again. Yikes!

In addition to getting good service and instruction, the quality of the relationships you develop at your LDS is what keeps you coming back.

People who feel the need to brag about their abilities remind me of that nasty cold medicine whose label proudly proclaims, "Pleasant tasting!" If they have to say it, it probably isn't so, LOL!

The quality of a LDS will probably be self-evident from the moment you walk through the door and strike up a conversation with the owner or instructors.

caroln
09-25-2007, 21:48
The most convenient shop to me is one that's about 15 minutes from where I work. I signed up (and paid for) a class with them earlier this summer,but every time I went there they would be negative about another shop, or a local dive site that they'd tell me was garbage, but yet I met the shop owner out there one weekend. I got tired of the negativity and just stopped going to the shop, and finished my class elsewhere. Being negative implies that they don't have enough positive things going for them to compete on that basis.

plot
09-25-2007, 21:53
i think it's amazing that the LDS's don't realize that that attitude turns off 95% of the customers that hear it.

I've never heard anyone stop any say "Oh... you really don't like your competition? hrm. think I can take all my gear back and buy new stuff here?"

Tableleg
09-27-2007, 15:39
i needed it for that saturdayYea, there's not a whole lot you can do about a situation like that. Bad planning indeed, but you got to do your dive. That's what matters. :smiley20:

ccarter
09-27-2007, 16:25
It's the same with bike shops and probably any kind of activity.. just about every town has multiple bike shops and they always have some kind of bitter rivalry between one another and there are also people like the guy that PM'ed you. Ego problems is all it is.. people think they're sooo great because they can drop a lot of money on their hobby. This is crazy rampant in cycling.. you'll see people on $8K+ bikes that get winded riding down the side walk but will still talk crap to you when all you're doing is being nice and saying hello. It's something that provides lots of entertainment for me.. just don't let people like that get to you and enjoy the spectacle.

DennisW
09-27-2007, 18:45
There are two dive shops in Hampton, VA. They are almost within spittin distance of each other. One of them always, not once in a while, always bad mouths the other shop. The other shop has never said anything bad about the other shop. Guess which one I use?

Bring the Payne
09-30-2007, 21:55
It is sad shops have to be like that. None of the shops around here are too bad, in fact one even has a sign inside that asks customers not to say anything negative about another shop while in the store.

sudnit5
10-01-2007, 05:39
I had an experience with a local shop here recently. First off they only sell Aqualung brand everything. I was telling him that I bought all of my stuff from another shop in the area and not from him. He started telling me that everything that I had was crap and that I needed to return it. Then he started showing me his overpriced items.

I got to asking him if he has every tried my brand or any other and he said that Aqualung is the only brand that can be trusted. At that point I laughed at him and walked out the door.

EagleRay J
10-06-2007, 16:14
The LDS where we did our cert was really nice to us. The instructor and assistant were great and really took the time to make sure we had it right. I bought a mask and with the corrective lens and they really made sure we had it right. During the instruction my wife and I brought our gear in that we purchased from a large retail store and not one ill word was said about it, by anyone.
After our resort dives convinced us to go ahead and get certified we spent several hours in there (the large retail store), (send me a PM if you want the name) checking on equipment and prices. No pressure to buy the more expensive equipment or to get more than we would really need. They treated us nicely and talked to us a great deal about not only how we wanted to dive but where, and where we looked to go with our diving as far as skills and training, so that they could make the proper recommendations to us. When an LDS was mentioned not a negative comment was made.

RoadRacer1978
10-06-2007, 17:32
That is great few LDS like that, or so it seems. I think we have a tendency to remember the bad ones more so than the good ones. My LDS is really good and I am glad to have found them. Unfortulately for most larger purchases, they are just too high in price. But I try to support them, if I do not and they close down, where will I get training?

cshel
10-06-2007, 19:36
The shops in Raleigh, NC are all nice - no bad mouthing. Now I have had a couple of people at quarries kid about not being able to fill my tank because they don't trust the guys at the shop I bought it from, but they are all very close friends and they mean it all in jest. Yes, they fill it but after the 3rd or fourth time.... that joke gets old.....

terrillja
10-16-2007, 08:35
I went to get my gear serviced this year and the lds had to be coaxed into doing the annual service because I didn't buy it from him. When my dad got certified in aug, we bought his gear elsewhere. That shop lost his $1300 sale and unknown amount of money from courses that we have taken elsewhere. I swore to never set foot there again, and I'm sticking with
that promise.

webwidejosh
10-16-2007, 10:33
I've been invited to talk at Dema this year again for Oceanic / Aeris and this very topic is on my agenda. Dive shops are not your enemy. Other places where people spend their recreational dollars are... golf courses, jet ski rentals, rock climbing, mountain bikes, movie theaters etc.

You mean, like paintball?

ScubaToys Larry
10-16-2007, 10:44
You mean, like paintball?

Yea! Like paintball! :smiley36: http://www.gatsplat.com

fire diver
10-16-2007, 11:12
And just the other day i started a thread (again, against my better judgement), on SB, curious what people thought about the different Tech agencies, i was just curious who people thought had real good programs. And i get a PM from this jerk, correcting a typo, and that i need more expereince and that i need to be ready to spend money on equipment, and yada, yada.

I went and looked up that thread on SB. OMG that was bad! I was hoping to see what the screen name of the other Okie was, then I saw it was from a PM regarding that post.

Anyway, that thread went down the sewer in a heartbeat. Even after you told them to STFU, they just kept going at each other. Sad. Very sad. When I joined a couple years ago, those were some great people to talk with. Now they have become the very dive zealots they used to abhor. And my biggest gripe.... The mods did nothing. Page after page after page of personal insults and attacks, attacking training agencies, people places of residence. I think it's time to just delete SB from my favorites list.

FD

Clanggedin
10-16-2007, 12:26
Everyone should be in the business of building others up, not knocking them down.

Businesses may not see it, but when you talk trash about your competition or other businesses or people in front of customers then you have already lost potential profit. Those people who heard you talk negatively about others are now much less likely to return and purchase from you again and refer you to someone else.

$$ Lost.

Daved
10-16-2007, 13:31
Life's pretty simple--Treat people they you want to be treated. Follow that motto in all dealings--you'll end up way ahead.

chace_nicole
10-16-2007, 23:59
Everyone should be in the business of building others up, not knocking them down.

Businesses may not see it, but when you talk trash about your competition or other businesses or people in front of customers then you have already lost potential profit. Those people who heard you talk negatively about others are now much less likely to return and purchase from you again and refer you to someone else.

$$ Lost.


Couldn't agree more, it looks so unprofessional when business owners are not this way.

UCFKnightDiver
10-17-2007, 00:33
Yea my LDS bad mouths leisure pro, and some of the other online dive equipment stores, but dont exactly blaim him he is also struggling to compete, said grey market but didnt give me all the facts which im sure he knows... like liesure pros warrenties and stuff, havent really brought up other LDS's, and I have been careful not too just for these same reasons!!! chances are if he bad mouths online stores he will other LDS's, and I dont find this particularly helpful, I want the best equipment at the best price, and not necessarily just what he sells, I am happy to help him out but am met with way too much of a biased opinion!

Anne Eastwell
10-17-2007, 00:42
The guys I go are a little out of my way but are happy to have people come in and browse or just have a chat if they're not busy.

One of the shops closer to home also seems quite friendly, although not a lot of stock.

I haven't experienced the sledging of other shops at this stage.

medic001918
10-17-2007, 06:07
Yea my LDS bad mouths leisure pro, and some of the other online dive equipment stores, but dont exactly blaim him he is also struggling to compete, said grey market but didnt give me all the facts which im sure he knows... like liesure pros warrenties and stuff, havent really brought up other LDS's, and I have been careful not too just for these same reasons!!! chances are if he bad mouths online stores he will other LDS's, and I dont find this particularly helpful, I want the best equipment at the best price, and not necessarily just what he sells, I am happy to help him out but am met with way too much of a biased opinion!

I would have a hard time going back to a shop that feels the need to bad mouth other retailers. It sounds like he must bash other services pretty hard if you're being careful not to mention any other local shops for fear that he will bash them as well. A good retailer will tell you what makes what they have to
offer that makes them a better place to shop (or their products better to use) without putting down and bashing another shop or product. When I go to a new shop, I listen to the staff in how the interact with other customers who are asking questions or talking about other shops to see how they react. When a shop isn't bashing another product or shop, the sales environment stays with a positive tone and makes me want to stay there and listen. When the bashing starts, it's simply discouraging and leaves me wanting to leave.
As far as buying from some of the online retailers, I've had good luck with Scuba Toys (of course!!!), Leisure Pro and Divetank.

Shane

fire diver
10-17-2007, 08:36
The real problem is that not all online sales shops are equal. Take ST for example. They are authorized sellers of everything in the shop. Everything carries the full factory warranty.

LiesurePro is NOT the same. Most of thier big ticket item like regs and BCs trully are grey market. They pay other shops to put in huge orders for regs and such, then buy them off them cheap. LP then gives the product it's own warranty. And the manufacturers KNOW what is going on. They have track of every serial numbered item and where it is shipped to If you ask AL for example where reg ###### was shipped to, they will claim no such number exists, or that they don't have a record of it's shipment. It's all BS really. They probably sell directly to LP, since they move more product than most LDS's combined.

The politics of this business tend to make me sick some times. Thank God we have people like Larry and Joe, and companies like Zeagle.

FD

reservecops
10-17-2007, 15:11
They pay other shops to put in huge orders for regs and such, then buy them off them cheap. LP then gives the product it's own warranty. And the manufacturers KNOW what is going on.Is this based on some actual specific evidence that you have, or are you just opining?

If an authorized dealer was buying product, then selling it to LP on the cheap, most would venture to say that the manufacturer would cease doing business with the (now) former authorized dealer.

The manufacturers have much more to lose than just a few bucks.

fire diver
10-17-2007, 17:18
They pay other shops to put in huge orders for regs and such, then buy them off them cheap. LP then gives the product it's own warranty. And the manufacturers KNOW what is going on.Is this based on some actual specific evidence that you have, or are you just opining?

If an authorized dealer was buying product, then selling it to LP on the cheap, most would venture to say that the manufacturer would cease doing business with the (now) former authorized dealer.

The manufacturers have much more to lose than just a few bucks.

Are you serious? LP sells so much product for companies like Aqua Lung, they litteraly couldn't afford to shut them down. That is if they even wanted to. AL (or other company) get to move a product, and they no long have to warranty it. It's a win-win for them. However for you local LDS, they get screwed becuase LP sells openly at prices lower than the LDS can buy from his distributor.

And yes, this is proven fact. AL dealers have purchased regs from LP, then sent inqueries to AL about the reg. If Joe-blow LDS sells AL regs, any other AL dealer can send an inquery and find out that reg ##### was shipped to his shop on ### date. Ask about a LP reg and get the run-around or the brush off or a lie. This was a HUGE HUGE HUGE debate over on SB a year or 2 ago. AL threatened to sue SB, and SB closed the thread and deleted it from access.

Shame really, becuase I like AL products, but I haven't bought one since I learned the truth.

FD

Soonerwink
10-17-2007, 17:33
I think the original shop from the start of this thread wasn't bad mouthing your LDS, but your agency you were certified through. He wouldn't fill your tanks because you weren't taught tables through your agency. If you had been certified at a different LDS with same agency, I bet he still wouldn't fill your tanks.

fire diver
10-17-2007, 17:41
I think the original shop from the start of this thread wasn't bad mouthing your LDS, but your agency you were certified through. He wouldn't fill your tanks because you weren't taught tables through your agency. If you had been certified at a different LDS with same agency, I bet he still wouldn't fill your tanks.

Yeah but that's just as bad. It's not his decision where or not this guy dives. NO one HAS to know tables if they use a computer. Is it a good thing to know? Absolutely. But telling someone to take a hike becuase he was trained at such&such shop under xyz agency is rediculous.

FD

mitsuguy
10-17-2007, 17:48
Life's pretty simple--Treat people they you want to be treated. Follow that motto in all dealings--you'll end up way ahead.

yup... I live my life by that...

mpd525
10-17-2007, 19:01
I think the original shop from the start of this thread wasn't bad mouthing your LDS, but your agency you were certified through. He wouldn't fill your tanks because you weren't taught tables through your agency. If you had been certified at a different LDS with same agency, I bet he still wouldn't fill your tanks.


Well i may not have been taught tables, and yes he did bad mouth the instructor and the agency. And to me that means he his bad-mouthing the LDS. And not only did he basically tell me that my training was crap, and that i needed to take a class from him to get the proper training.

but to be honest i really don't care if he won't fill my tanks for me, because i'll never step foot in that place again. I wouldn't care what the situation was, that place will never have my business, and i'm sure that he doesn't care, and i don't either. I just think it's pathetic that too many of these LDS's act like 4 year olds who took got there toy taken away. And even more the fact that this child had to send a PM to tout how special he is.

Call me crazy but normally in the business world i believe that you should want to make a sell by treating your customers right, and helping them any way possible, and not running your mouth about this or that, another store or agency. WHY DOES IT MATTER!!!!!!!!

WaScubaDude
10-23-2007, 18:25
I think the original shop from the start of this thread wasn't bad mouthing your LDS, but your agency you were certified through. He wouldn't fill your tanks because you weren't taught tables through your agency. If you had been certified at a different LDS with same agency, I bet he still wouldn't fill your tanks.


Well i may not have been taught tables, and yes he did bad mouth the instructor and the agency. And to me that means he his bad-mouthing the LDS. And not only did he basically tell me that my training was crap, and that i needed to take a class from him to get the proper training.

but to be honest i really don't care if he won't fill my tanks for me, because i'll never step foot in that place again. I wouldn't care what the situation was, that place will never have my business, and i'm sure that he doesn't care, and i don't either. I just think it's pathetic that too many of these LDS's act like 4 year olds who took got there toy taken away. And even more the fact that this child had to send a PM to tout how special he is.

Call me crazy but normally in the business world i believe that you should want to make a sell by treating your customers right, and helping them any way possible, and not running your mouth about this or that, another store or agency. WHY DOES IT MATTER!!!!!!!!

Here, here. Dive on!

dburg30
11-01-2007, 09:33
I could never condone bad mouthing of another agency or retail outlet. I've got a person that works for us, that I'm constantly on him about sounding superior to everyone else.. You know can get that snooty attitude, where he's the best and everyone else sucks. He's getting much better but I have to thank another retailer in the area for it :)(I didnt set this up it just happened). He went to this other place looking for something that he needed (this other retailer isnt in the same business as we are of course).

Anywho, the fellow that works for me came in the next day and was just flabergasted at how he was treated and that he'd never go back there. I asked what happened. He said that the person acted like he was an idiot, and was just talking down about other products etc etc.. I had to just stare in total amazement. After the story, I looked my employee straight in the eye and asked him if he knew what I was trying to say now.. It took him a minute or 2, but something magical clicked, and he got this real embarassed look on his face. He never said yes, but I can ASSURE you that since that day, his attitude has been 180 degrees different :)

Just had to share that story..

mitsuguy
11-01-2007, 10:27
I could never condone bad mouthing of another agency or retail outlet. I've got a person that works for us, that I'm constantly on him about sounding superior to everyone else.. You know can get that snooty attitude, where he's the best and everyone else sucks. He's getting much better but I have to thank another retailer in the area for it :)(I didnt set this up it just happened). He went to this other place looking for something that he needed (this other retailer isnt in the same business as we are of course).

Anywho, the fellow that works for me came in the next day and was just flabergasted at how he was treated and that he'd never go back there. I asked what happened. He said that the person acted like he was an idiot, and was just talking down about other products etc etc.. I had to just stare in total amazement. After the story, I looked my employee straight in the eye and asked him if he knew what I was trying to say now.. It took him a minute or 2, but something magical clicked, and he got this real embarassed look on his face. He never said yes, but I can ASSURE you that since that day, his attitude has been 180 degrees different :)

Just had to share that story..

that is an awesome story... that is just perfect :)

terrillja
11-01-2007, 10:46
I was annoyed when I found out that my Oceanic regs had been recalled this week, since my family owns 3 of them. I called one dealer and asked if he had the parts to do the repair, and how long it would take. His first question to me was where I bought them, and when I told him that I had bought them from a shop in IL. He responded that Oceanic had only sent him enough parts for the regulators that he had sold, and that he could not risk inconveniencing any of his customers in order to do a repair for a regulator that he did not sell. He stated that he could order the parts, which he claimed could take a week or more, then he would do the repair when he had time, giving priority to his customers, but he should be able to do the repair within 3 weeks. Keep in mind that this is in NH, almost no one is diving at this point in the year, so I doubt he is really doing too much.

I then decided to call another shop, who was more than willing to do the repair, said that they had lots of the replacement parts in stock, and should have no trouble doing the repair in a week, but could certainly do it sooner if we needed the regs back right away.

Shop #1, I would never deal with, it was a required repair with sock parts, and honestly how many of his customers will be rushing in to have their regs repaired this week?

Shop #2, I will certainly do business with again. They were accommodating and kept apologizing for any inconvenience that the recall could have caused.

Sometimes you wonder if the owners of the shop get it at all, I certainly plan to buy equipment in the future, and if a dealer treats me like an idiot because I didn't buy from him, he shouldn't expect any business from me.

3rdEye
11-01-2007, 11:24
Sometimes you wonder if the owners of the shop get it at all, I certainly plan to buy equipment in the future, and if a dealer treats me like an idiot because I didn't buy from him, he shouldn't expect any business from me.


they don't....and eventually their businesses will fail, and deservedly so. And someone else will step up to fill that void and hopefully do it right. Customer loyalty is a hard thing to achieve, all a business owner has to do is a piss off a customer once, and that customer is gone forever. It's just much easier to go somewhere else where they will treat you right.

kyfriedchipper
11-01-2007, 12:23
I've walked into my close-by LDS and asked them to price out 2 sets of equipment, gave them the ST price and said "beat it" - then I got a 2 minute rant about why its so horrible to buy online, yada, yada, yada - also got the "we won't service it" line - but that doesn't matter - since I can send it to ST!

Puffer Fish
11-01-2007, 12:45
I was annoyed when I found out that my Oceanic regs had been recalled this week, since my family owns 3 of them. I called one dealer and asked if he had the parts to do the repair, and how long it would take. His first question to me was where I bought them, and when I told him that I had bought them from a shop in IL. He responded that Oceanic had only sent him enough parts for the regulators that he had sold, and that he could not risk inconveniencing any of his customers in order to do a repair for a regulator that he did not sell. He stated that he could order the parts, which he claimed could take a week or more, then he would do the repair when he had time, giving priority to his customers, but he should be able to do the repair within 3 weeks. Keep in mind that this is in NH, almost no one is diving at this point in the year, so I doubt he is really doing too much.

I then decided to call another shop, who was more than willing to do the repair, said that they had lots of the replacement parts in stock, and should have no trouble doing the repair in a week, but could certainly do it sooner if we needed the regs back right away.

Shop #1, I would never deal with, it was a required repair with sock parts, and honestly how many of his customers will be rushing in to have their regs repaired this week?

Shop #2, I will certainly do business with again. They were accommodating and kept apologizing for any inconvenience that the recall could have caused.

Sometimes you wonder if the owners of the shop get it at all, I certainly plan to buy equipment in the future, and if a dealer treats me like an idiot because I didn't buy from him, he shouldn't expect any business from me.
Good for you and I wish everyone that had that sort of experience would do the same...

I don't get any of that, from any shop, but there is that instructor thing that seems to change the rules, but if I did... they would not be a place I go.

I get tanks, when and where ever they are on sale, and take them to whatever shop I happen to be near... I expect that they will inspect them, just as they would one of their own sales.

I take my regs in, if I have an issue, to the nearest shop that handles them, and expect them to help.

I cannot make anyone be nice or reasonable, but I can vote with my dollars.

Thanks to the guys at ST's, no one should have to put up with jerks anymore....

BuzzF117
11-01-2007, 15:13
If you bought your products from a legit dealer internet or not what would the manufacturers say if they were notified that their "authorized" dealer was refusing to service a legitimately purchased item that had a recall on it? Ya think the dealer might at least get a call from a rep to attempt to get the guy's mind right.

terrillja
11-01-2007, 16:03
If you bought your products from a legit dealer internet or not what would the manufacturers say if they were notified that their "authorized" dealer was refusing to service a legitimately purchased item that had a recall on it? Ya think the dealer might at least get a call from a rep to attempt to get the guy's mind right.

Just sent an email to Joe, the NE rep for Oceanic. Hopefully if he calls the shop and tells them that they represent Oceanic, and they need to shape up, they will treat all owners as equals, especially for a mandatory repair.

I love my oceanic gear, but if I have terrible support locally, I won't be buying any more Oceanic gear in the future.

Geekybiker
11-01-2007, 18:16
I think alot of the problem is the vast majority of divers don't continue past OW. Something like 90% IIRC. Dealers looking to stay afloat want to get those new divers in their classes, and sell them their first set of gear. After that they dont care if they ever see them again since more than likely they will never see that person again. Easy to get in the mentality of "make that sale" and screw repeat business. Sucks, and I dont even want to step in most LDS from all the political BS I get there.

BuzzF117
11-02-2007, 10:20
MY LDS stresses the need to get out diving with the group from the store because he know's if you get out diving you are more likely to continue the sport and there are enough divers at diff levels of experience that you don't feel uncomfortable at all diving since you may not be the ony new diver out there that day and there is plenty of experienced divers that understand you may be a little nervous.

kwajdiver
11-04-2007, 13:56
Unfortunately I have found this to be all too common in our industry. As a pilot I travel quite a bit, and when I find myself near a LDS I stop in to see what products they may have that I can save shipping on.

Most of the time when I walk through the door I am felt to be an outsider or intruder. When I am greeted in a friendly manner it is usually just the precursor to the overbearing hard sale.

I don't know if it's the competitive market and low margins or just that whatever it takes to make it to the professional level in our business also happens to frequently coincide with marginal social skills. In either case, it is certainly unfortunate.

Not to blow smoke up ScubaToys skirt, but they are one of the very few shops that don't fall into either of the above categories.

ScubaToys Larry
11-04-2007, 14:03
Not to blow smoke up ScubaToys skirt, but they are one of the very few shops that don't fall into either of the above categories.

Thanks for the kind words, and how did you know that Joe wears a skirt? :smiley36:

ScubaGir1
11-04-2007, 14:09
I think some LDS's have inferiority complexes or something, b/c I experienced something similar. When I was going around price checking for dive gear I went to a LDS and he even had signs up saying he does not support buying gear from "dot com" sites. WOW, he made a huge deal about scuba.com and leisurepro.com he just would not stop bit**ing about it. We almost left, until he mentioned a 40% off weekend sale on ALL Aqua Lung products. So we stuck around, and he was actually really knowledgeable and nice (until you bring up 'dot com' sites lol). He also HATED Sport Chalet... I think he feels like a small fish in big ocean, and these other companies are whale sharks or something...

Kunk35
11-04-2007, 15:52
I've mentioned this before on other threads. Nothing is stopping ANY LDS from adopting a business plan similiar to ScubaToys. Not that I want them to. I'm close enough to ST that it would be fine with me if noone else "gets it". But the point is, all the other shops need to quit whining about where I bought something that I didn't buy from them, and start truely listening to WHY I bought something somewhere else.

Service issues, as mentioned by the OP, are in every industry and pretty much every place you walk into these days. I'm torn between feeling like I just expect too much from the places I shop, and being sick of the bad service that waaayyyy too many retail places put out there.

I use the LDS I started with for all of my training for one huge reason. The instructor we were blessed with getting. The overall service of the LDS is tolerable most of the time. For a while, noone even knew who I was, after taking a few classes and spending thousands of dollars. That's all different now given the amount of return visits I have made for tank fills and additional training. The shop in general caters mostly to bringing in new divers into the industry, and I respect that.

This is where ST rocks. They have everything you need for continued diving, and the pricing to boot. For instance, my training LDS has an Atom 2.0 diving computer with a transmitter for 899.00. ST is 629.00 before the ever popular forum discount. That is just too much of a difference for me to remain loyal for every purchase.


Whoa, I just realized I'm rambling, so I'm gonna go now....

Happy diving...

Zenagirl
11-04-2007, 20:07
Thanks for the kind words, and how did you know that Joe wears a skirt? :smiley36:

You have a webcam, remember?? ;)

Big Mike
11-05-2007, 09:35
We have a store here in Phoenix that is definately over pricing everything..When a friend of mine went in with a catalog from the manufacturer (which listed suggested retail price) of an item he wanted, the guy snatched the catalog and tore out the page and gruffed that it was an old catalog...(it was the latest)...thank you know who for Scuba Toys

BuzzF117
11-05-2007, 09:58
I like my LDS...really I do

Debraw
11-05-2007, 11:12
<snip> For instance, my training LDS has an Atom 2.0 diving computer with a transmitter for 899.00. ST is 629.00 before the ever popular forum discount. That is just too much of a difference for me to remain loyal for every purchase. Whoa, I just realized I'm rambling, so I'm gonna go now....Happy diving...

Are you sure about that pricing? The ST website says it's $629.95 for the wrist mount and then you have to add the transmitter and when you select it, it's $899. 95. I am only pointing this out because I don't want people to get the wrong idea on the pricing, they go to order one and think they have been baited and switched. Also if manufacturer's read this it woudl be in violation of the MAP structure. It is always best to call ST or go by the store for best pricing.

Zenagirl
11-05-2007, 16:12
For sure....I never believe the prices on ST's website...you have to call to get the REAL price since they are under advertising rules and can't advertise lower than the manufacturer allows.

fireflock
11-05-2007, 17:39
For sure....I never believe the prices on ST's website...you have to call to get the REAL price since they are under advertising rules and can't advertise lower than the manufacturer allows.

The last time I tried that I got the MAP, same as on the website (on a ~$350 reg). Is there a secret password I need to know? :smiley36:

Rich

Zenagirl
11-05-2007, 20:02
For sure....I never believe the prices on ST's website...you have to call to get the REAL price since they are under advertising rules and can't advertise lower than the manufacturer allows.

The last time I tried that I got the MAP, same as on the website (on a ~$350 reg). Is there a secret password I need to know? :smiley36:

Rich

Hmmm, are you sure you got the MAP price or just the price on their website? They aren't necessarily one and the same. But to answer your question, I've always gotten my best prices when speaking directly to Joe or Larry. :D

DiveSooner
11-05-2007, 20:06
There is good and bad eveywhere you go, the main thing I look at is my comfort level, both with the staff and the instructor.

Another reason for competition could be the population or consumer base for the product/service. Most LDS are developed from a hobbist, hoping for a grand slam. Scuba Toys, not only have a large community to service (DFW) and surrounding areas, but with there "widget", unlimited population/consumer base. ST was one of the first, interenet based sales platforms for scuba.

Hey, and they just happened to be just as friendly and helpful to boot. Equipment sales/service is just one facet of there push, they can do trips and trainining...

I have been to CSSP with a LDS group for training and I watched the instructor from ST... for you locals in the DFW... take advantage of it... If this guy wasn't a Navy Seal... he could teach them a thing or two.

One of my LDS harrasses me all the time about buying stuff from ST, what can I say, best bang for the buck. As DM/Intructor assistant in training, he wants me to wear his gear during training, which can respect his wishes. So he can sell off his racks.

Once people get in a few dives and get deeper into the hobby, they'll learn the tricks.

Larry/Joe, how about a book on you business model? Memiors of Scuba Toys... migh be good bathroom reading.

my 2cents

fireflock
11-05-2007, 20:18
Hmmm, are you sure you got the MAP price or just the price on their website? They aren't necessarily one and the same.

I think it's MAP, since the same price (down to the decimal) shows up at quite a few other sites.



I've always gotten my best prices when speaking directly to Joe or Larry. :D


That could have been my problem :)

Kunk35
11-05-2007, 21:16
<snip> For instance, my training LDS has an Atom 2.0 diving computer with a transmitter for 899.00. ST is 629.00 before the ever popular forum discount. That is just too much of a difference for me to remain loyal for every purchase. Whoa, I just realized I'm rambling, so I'm gonna go now....Happy diving...

Are you sure about that pricing? The ST website says it's $629.95 for the wrist mount and then you have to add the transmitter and when you select it, it's $899. 95. I am only pointing this out because I don't want people to get the wrong idea on the pricing, they go to order one and think they have been baited and switched. Also if manufacturer's read this it woudl be in violation of the MAP structure. It is always best to call ST or go by the store for best pricing.

Well, I'm pretty sure, since I went down there and purchased it!:smiley20:

cfw218
11-05-2007, 22:00
Well, this has gotten a little off the subject, so I'm going to pull it back. My LDS is over an hour away from my home, but I love the shop and I trust the instructors/owner.

I happened to be looking for some earplugs for a weekend dive and didn't have time to drive that far, so I stopped at one in a nearby town. When the owner asked me who did my cert, he accused me of being a spy for my LDS. Talk about feeling unwelcomed! I had no idea there were such bad feelings out there among shop owners.

Honestly, I have never heard my LDS owner bad mouth this other guy. I think that's a good indicator of a professional business man.

awap
11-06-2007, 10:05
Well, this has gotten a little off the subject, so I'm going to pull it back. My LDS is over an hour away from my home, but I love the shop and I trust the instructors/owner.

I happened to be looking for some earplugs for a weekend dive and didn't have time to drive that far, so I stopped at one in a nearby town. When the owner asked me who did my cert, he accused me of being a spy for my LDS. Talk about feeling unwelcomed! I had no idea there were such bad feelings out there among shop owners.

Honestly, I have never heard my LDS owner bad mouth this other guy. I think that's a good indicator of a professional business man.


You should have told him that he caught you - that your LDS sent you over to see if he was still as big a jerk as ever. Then thank him for making it so easy.

Zenagirl
11-06-2007, 15:00
Well, this has gotten a little off the subject, so I'm going to pull it back. My LDS is over an hour away from my home, but I love the shop and I trust the instructors/owner.

I happened to be looking for some earplugs for a weekend dive and didn't have time to drive that far, so I stopped at one in a nearby town. When the owner asked me who did my cert, he accused me of being a spy for my LDS. Talk about feeling unwelcomed! I had no idea there were such bad feelings out there among shop owners.

Honestly, I have never heard my LDS owner bad mouth this other guy. I think that's a good indicator of a professional business man.


You should have told him that he caught you - that your LDS sent you over to see if he was still as big a jerk as ever. Then thank him for making it so easy.

Almost spewed my drink all over my computer with this one!! <ROFLOL>

UCFKnightDiver
11-06-2007, 16:14
lol a spy thats funny, in a sad way

Debraw
11-06-2007, 19:19
[QUOTE=Kunk35;87601
Well, I'm pretty sure, since I went down there and purchased it!:smiley20:[/QUOTE]

That's my point, you went into the store and got that pricing. You can not get it over the internet. You had to go in and talk to someone face to face. That's a big difference since most people can not get it by ordering online.

Kunk35
11-06-2007, 19:49
Actually, after looking at the webpage and seeing what you were talking about, I pm'd Larry and asked him if there was a goof and if I owed them more cashola. I have to share his reply with you guys, cuz I think it is very relevant to this thread as to the whole service issue with LDS's.

"This type of honesty is such a rare commodity in todays society, the payment of restoring my faith in humanity far out weighs a few hundred bucks...

Consider it a great deal - put the rest of the money toward a cool dive trip - and please keep involved in our community on the board.

Thank you so very much for your honesty - the Karma will follow you...:smiley20:" - Larry

Sorry Larry if you didn't want me to share that, but I'm just amazed at the service you guys provide and the fact that you "get it" when it comes to the "big picture".

Debraw, I almost pm'd you to share this, but then I felt like letting everyone see. I stand corrected:worship:

UCFKnightDiver
11-06-2007, 20:30
[quote=Kunk35;87601
Well, I'm pretty sure, since I went down there and purchased it!:smiley20:

That's my point, you went into the store and got that pricing. You can not get it over the internet. You had to go in and talk to someone face to face. That's a big difference since most people can not get it by ordering online.[/quote]

how about over the phone???

Debraw
11-07-2007, 12:42
Excellent, I expect nothing less from Larry. He is a stand-up guy. Thanks for sharing that. Awesome!

Byte Me
11-07-2007, 14:11
I'm very new to this sport so I've spent a lot of time reading posts here and on SB trying to get a pulse of the sport, the gear, the industry and the retailers. I was leery at first about joining this board because it's hosted by a retailer but I figured what the hell, I can get a discount if they have something I need. It's been a real eye opener here how loyal a following ST has - kudos to you guys for consistently cementing the customer relationship. Far far too few places do that these days.

Goes a long way for a noob like me to know about a place like this! (Especially the fact they don't always price things correctly!!) :smiley2:

jpsexton
11-09-2007, 06:55
This is a perfect example of why I consider ST to be my LDS even though they are 750 mile away!

mcc2318
11-18-2007, 00:27
I live on the gulf coast of mississippi so there isn't any clear water. The cursed mississippi mud! I frequently shore dive in Gulf Shores, Al and the dive shops there are so supportive, and if they cant get you on that shops charter the will help refer you to another LDS. I asked a guy at my favorite shop there and he told me that they use to be very cut throat but soon realized that they were losing business so all the shops got together and finally came to an agreement that they would bash each other! I wish all dive shops would act like these!

skippy11
11-18-2007, 22:17
I completely agree. Since I got my OW and became and avid scuba shopper....I have visited several LDS and many online, as well. Fortunately, the LDS's here are just happy that they have hooked another person to the sport. I haven't had the experience of one bashing the other.

Cruiser
11-19-2007, 02:16
A lot of dive shops just always seems to be irritated and it doesn't take much to set them off, whether they're bad mouthing another shop, agency, or instructor.

Earlier in the year I went diving at my favorite "springs" in Texas. Upon entering the dive shop to get refills, the guy hooks up my tank and snaps at me "It's empty!" And I'm thinking, yeah, that's why I'm here, doofus! While I'm waiting for the tanks to fill, they had a few unkind comments to make to me about some of the programs at the "springs" and the one worker goes off on a rant about how a cabin on the grounds that housed an archaeological display got flooded and all those artifacts got swept back in the lake and why don't we spend our time trying to retrieve those items, huh? Why don't we do that? At this point my mouth was hanging open at this unsolicited attack and I'm wondering what the heck just happened and did I do anything to set him off. This wasn't about another dive shop, just a bad attitude in general.

Okay, thanks for letting me vent, I wanted to tell that story.

Cruiser
11-19-2007, 02:26
Okay, back on topic with the thread.

I've notice that a lot of dive shops get snarky about other dive shops, .com sites, not honoring recalls, gray market products, etc. Or my favorite is to mention a competing instructor or class and get the eye-rolling.

Then there's the scuba toys bunch. These guys have a philosophy that makes you feel like a warm blankie on a cold day. They're genuine, it's not about the sale but the person, they go above and beyond to meet the needs of their customers (I've heard personal stories), and they honor the dive community at large. It comes from the heart. The others just don't get it.

DivingCRNA
12-06-2007, 13:36
Every shop here in town is like that. One is PADI (and owns the quarry), one is NAUI, and one is SSI. The Quarry Owner doesn't let the other shops do check outs in his place, so no one local dives there because they think the lake 2 hours away is the only spot.

The SSI and NAUI shops just bad mouth each other a lot over dumb little variance is OW instructor that are NOT that big of a deal.

I might end up taking my son to the SSI shop some time because they have their own pool and "SCUBA Rangers" for 8-10 year olds. Trouble is that I will likely be a PADI DM by then. No, I do not want to do DM at the SSI shop.

I really think they have a hard time staying afloat and do everything they can to keep in business.

Hey-this is my 69th post! :69:

navyhmc
12-06-2007, 14:16
Every shop here in town is like that. One is PADI (and owns the quarry), one is NAUI, and one is SSI. The Quarry Owner doesn't let the other shops do check outs in his place, so no one local dives there because they think the lake 2 hours away is the only spot.
Hey-this is my 69th post! :69:

Congrats on being "69" :smilie39:


Which Quarry is that? A certain one run by Captain John?

adv_diver1
12-11-2007, 15:20
I would have put the dive flag and float down and told him that was fine because he just lost all of my business and all of my friends business and walked out.

There is always one banana in each bunch of grapes!

divechaplain-sara
12-14-2007, 00:04
I've heard some of that around here in the metro plex. In my five years of diving I have bought gear and scuba paraphernalia from 10 different shops. I like to get a little something from a different dive shop on each trip I take--a scuba memento. The majority of my stuff has come from 3 different shops. I was really disappointed when one of the shops that I had rented gear from regularly bad mouthed my instructor who had taught a group of us independently (a Christian singles group). Apparently the instructor had not made good on a past debt. I didn't really need to know that. He was a good instructor. I wasn't planning on going into business with him and didn't need a warning. When I bought gear (bc, reg, computer) one of the reasons that I went to scuba toys instead of the other shop was because they had bad-mouthed my instructor. My instructor had recommended that shop as one of several places to go to get my basic gear. Scuba Toys was another shop that he had recommended.

DennisW
12-14-2007, 12:43
Remember my post about the LDS here in Hampton, Va that always badmouthed the other LDS. He went out of business. I wonder why? I am sure he would say because he couldn't compete against the web sales, but he ran himself out of business by running off customers.

1_T_Sub
12-14-2007, 18:05
The two LDSs closest to me get along great they are about 50 miles apart but they do refferals etc... One told me he couldn't get a computer in time for me for an upcoming trip so he said get it from Scubatoys.

Puffer Fish
12-14-2007, 19:51
Anyone want to see how business should be... just visit the dive shops in Destin, FL... they both get along great... actually help each other. There used to be a lot of other shops, but only these two are left, and they are the ones that learned to work with each other. When I was teaching, I would go on checkout dives to help the PADI instructor with his class ( I would take all my NAUI stuff off and just be his DM. My program was several times the size of his, and he did not have enough assistent instructors (so we would help him). I will never understand why people don't understand that a healthy dive market helps everyone.

Lake Diver
12-14-2007, 21:06
Anyone want to see how business should be... just visit the dive shops in Destin, FL... they both get along great... actually help each other. There used to be a lot of other shops, but only these two are left, and they are the ones that learned to work with each other. When I was teaching, I would go on checkout dives to help the PADI instructor with his class ( I would take all my NAUI stuff off and just be his DM. My program was several times the size of his, and he did not have enough assistent instructors (so we would help him). I will never understand why people don't understand that a healthy dive market helps everyone.

On vacation I visited one of the shops in Destin and bought a wetsuit on sale! SCORE!

PsychDiver
12-14-2007, 21:43
We have one dive shop on the south side of Houston that has a grumpy old man running it. Everyone I talk to says that he has offended them. And it has nothing to do with the other dive shops he just tends to be an argumentative SOB. I only go there when the dive shop doesn't have what I need.