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View Full Version : suunto gekko vs. aeris xr2



subsur
09-25-2007, 13:46
please, help me to decide with which one to go. I originally wanted to go with Gekko computer but the salesperson tells me that XR2 is a better deal. Considering the price difference is small ($70), which one would you get and why? I'd rather get feedback from people who actually used at least one of these computers and know about the other one.
Thank you

p.s. more info about my diving - cold water recreational diving in low vis waters + occasional vacations. no plans to do cave diving or tech deep diving (below 40 meters).

ccarter
09-26-2007, 10:11
I have the Gekko and love it.. it's very conservative being a Suunto computer (which I like). I have mine in a bungee mount from deep sea supply--so much easier to deal with.. don't have to fiddle with the strap at depth and I can just slip it on at the surface.. no fuss. I mainly do recreational diving in the caribbean though occasionally do some spring/quarry stuff throughout the year as well. Has all the features I could want.. Nitrox, etc. It doesn't have a real backlight but if you hold your light up on the face it will glow really really bright for a while (I've done ~12 night dives on it no problem)

Ross
10-04-2007, 03:51
Sorry, can't comment on XR2, but the GEKKO benefits are numerous I think, used mine for ~2 years now, whereas my son bought a Vyper2. Does he use the pc link, bought at great expense, No [at least not after the initial play], does he use even the backlight, No - and I hear that it eats batteries anyway - in fact does he do anything different with his than I do - No: BUT the GEKKO has a larger display, I think equally clear, has the same functionality, see the display in dim areas [it glows! and if not a quick torch shine restores it], and it records all I want.
Now, maybe you want to look at graphical images of dive profiles, store it all on pc or whatever else the XR2 does, maybe there are different aspects - but the GEKKO does all I want, so that's a view!

ScubaToys Larry
10-04-2007, 06:10
Keep in mind there is a big difference in the allowable time based on the different algorithms they use. I find the suunto products to be conservative to an annoying degree. To where when we were on a live aboard, I was diving with a friend of mine with one - and especially as we got later in the day, we were calling dives when I still had 15 minutes of time on my computer - and he was pushing deco.

He would sit out the late after noon dive so he could do the night dive.... After 2 days, he switched and used my backup the rest of the trip and ebayed his suunto as soon as he got home.

Now to some more conservative is better - but the Aeris / Oceanic computers use a modified Padi table, and Padi, and Oceanic / Aeris / Sherwood have used that algorithm for years. If I want to be more conservative - I'll just call the dive when the computer says I have 10 mintues left instead of 2... no biggie - But if I am doing a nice warm relaxing dive - I don't want to have to head up 30 minutes early due to a very, very conservative computer.

I think you will find both to be quality products - it's just a decision on if you like the more graphical display, which I do... and the more liberal dive times.

tremtech
10-04-2007, 06:34
he possible reason that the Gekko was running such a conservative table may be that the Gekko offers a feature that you can select your own saftey level (there are three levels). Here is an example if I am over weight or physicaly exerted easily I can select from the more conservative tables. If I am a world class olympic swimmer or my SAC levels are real good I can select a less conservative table. It comes if I remember correctly, defaut in the more conservative table settinig. here is an excerp from Suuntos manual so you can see how it works:

3.7.2. Personal Adjustment
There are adverse personal factors for DCI which divers can predict in advance
and input into the decompression model. Factors that may affect susceptibility to
decompression illness vary between divers and also for the same diver from one
day to another. The three-step Personal Adjustment Mode is available, if a more
conservative dive plan is desired.
The personal factors which tend to increase the possibility of DCI include, but
are not limited to:
- cold exposure - water temperature less than 20 ˇC [68 ˇF]
- the diver is below average physical fi tness level
- diver fatigue
- diver dehydration
- previous history of DCI
- stress
- obesity
The Personal Adjustment Mode is indicated by a diver symbol and plus signs (P0
= a diver, P1 = diver +, or P2 = diver ++). Section 4.2.4. “ Personal Adjustments”
describes how the Personal Mode is adjusted.
This feature should be used to adjust the computer to be more conservative,
according to personal preference, by entering the suitable Personal Adjustment
Mode with the help of Table 3.5. In ideal conditions, retain the default setting, P0.
If conditions are more diffi cult or other mentioned factors which tend to increase
the possibility of DCI exist, select P1 or even the most conservative P2. As a
result the dive computer adjusts its mathematical model according to the entered
Personal Adjustment Mode, giving shorter no-decompression times (see section
6.1. “Operating Principles”, Table 6.1 and 6.2).
TABLE 3.5. PERSONAL ADJUSTMENT RANGES
Personal
mode
Symbol
on display
Condition
P0 optimal
P1 some conditions exsist
P2 most conservative


Desired
tables
Default
Progressively
more
conservative

Zenagirl
10-04-2007, 07:48
We've seen the same thing happen (as Larry describes) on both liveaboards and day trip boat diving. We had a woman on a 3-tank charter have to dive 20' above us on the 3rd dive since her Suunto wouldn't allow her go deeper for longer than 5 minutes dive time. On a liveaboard in Belize, two divers got locked out of diving their Suuntos and they were diving very similar profiles to us. On our liveaboard trip this summer, we saw exactly the scenario Larry describes above.

Since there's no evidence anywhere that one computer is "safer" than any other, I won't be buying a Suunto anytime in the future. Thank you Larry for sharing your expriences with me when I was buying a computer (many moons ago)....we now have Oceanic/Aeris computers because of you! :D

Ladyvalea
09-10-2008, 00:10
We've seen the same thing happen (as Larry describes) on both liveaboards and day trip boat diving. We had a woman on a 3-tank charter have to dive 20' above us on the 3rd dive since her Suunto wouldn't allow her go deeper for longer than 5 minutes dive time. On a liveaboard in Belize, two divers got locked out of diving their Suuntos and they were diving very similar profiles to us. On our liveaboard trip this summer, we saw exactly the scenario Larry describes above.

Since there's no evidence anywhere that one computer is "safer" than any other, I won't be buying a Suunto anytime in the future. Thank you Larry for sharing your expriences with me when I was buying a computer (many moons ago)....we now have Oceanic/Aeris computers because of you! :D
Lockout????????????? what does this mean?

lemon lime
09-10-2008, 06:22
Computers that lock you out will not allow you to dive for the next 24 hours. They lock out if you exceed their safety limits.

keyshunter
09-10-2008, 06:46
We've seen the same thing happen (as Larry describes) on both liveaboards and day trip boat diving. We had a woman on a 3-tank charter have to dive 20' above us on the 3rd dive since her Suunto wouldn't allow her go deeper for longer than 5 minutes dive time. On a liveaboard in Belize, two divers got locked out of diving their Suuntos and they were diving very similar profiles to us. On our liveaboard trip this summer, we saw exactly the scenario Larry describes above.

Since there's no evidence anywhere that one computer is "safer" than any other, I won't be buying a Suunto anytime in the future. Thank you Larry for sharing your expriences with me when I was buying a computer (many moons ago)....we now have Oceanic/Aeris computers because of you! :D
Lockout????????????? what does this mean?

If one ascends to the surface with a deco obligation showing on the computer, the computer will go into error mode and cease to function (except in gauge mode if it has one) until a predetermined time period (usually 24 to 48 hours) has passed. Most competent (and some not so competent) dive operations will not allow the person to dive again until his computer has returned to normal operation.

The solution: keep track of the no-decompression time (bottom time remaining) on the computer. Deliberate decompression diving really has no place in recreational diving. However, if one does slip into a few minutes of deco, all is not lost. Simply do the time required by the computer at or just below the mandatory ceiling BEFORE you ascend to the surface.

My opinion: Modern computers are pretty much foolproof. But, anyone, unless in an emergency situation, who ascends to the surface with a deco obligation showing on the computer is indeed a fool.

GIFFMANN
09-10-2008, 07:18
Seeing as I'm overweight and out of shape, I bought the Suunto for it's conservatism. I wanted to have that extra margin of safety. Course, I could also dive Nitrox using air tables, but the suunto was inexpensive (bought used on Scuba Board) and, if you have a cable, you can download your data.

I do wish it had a true backlight, but as noted, the face is luminescent.

Aussie
09-10-2008, 08:18
I never had any issues with having to sit out dives due to my computers telling me so. I dive with two Suunto's, a D9 and a Vytec. I am normally the first in and the last out. Even on a 7 day liveaboard with 5 dives a day I havnt had to chase my NDT.

Regards Aussie

Duckydiver
09-10-2008, 19:08
I dive a Sunnto Gekko. I never had a problem. I also do not use the more conservative features of it, and diving nitrox always helps.

firemedic8082
09-10-2008, 19:36
I dive the gekko as well and have had no problems. I am however considering a Dive Rite Nitek Duo and moving the Gekko to a backup computer.

bubbletrubble
09-10-2008, 19:58
My gf has a Gekko. I have a Suunto Mosquito. Our regular dive buddies use a Sherwood Wisdom and a Cressy Eddy. We have never had problems with short bottom times on repetitive diving or multi-day diving. I'll concede that the other computer algorithms are more liberal than the Suuntos...but I've never felt overly restricted by my Suunto computer. We tend to dive fairly conservative profiles.

As has already been mentioned, divers should never let their computers go into lock-out mode, which only occurs when a diver goes to the surface without carrying out his deco obligations. Before a diver takes his computer on a dive, he should know what a deco screen looks like and understand how to comply with the deco stops at the various depth ceilings. Moreover, he should take into account such deco stops in his gas planning. IMHO, a locked out computer is proof-positive of a careless diver -- someone who isn't paying attention to his dive computer or doesn't know how to use it.

As a side note, I have heard that the Suunto algorithm can be rather penal for ascending too quickly or violating a safety stop. Since I never ascend at a rate greater than 33 ft/min and have always done my safety stops, I don't really know how angry the computer would get.

FWIW, although Suunto specifically says that the Gekko does not allow PC download of the dive profile, it is possible to trick the Suunto Dive Manager (SDM) into thinking that the computer is a Vyper. Do a Google search to find out how to do this. Apparently, Suunto saved on production costs by including some Vyper guts inside the Gekko. Another workaround if you are lucky enough to be using a Mac is to use the third-party freeware software called MacDive. It has a much user interface than SDM.

Unfortunately, the Gekko doesn't have gauge mode. That would be my only complaint with it.

Good luck with your search for a dive computer.

Krakenn
09-27-2008, 20:53
If I could wind back time I would not get the Suunto Cobra I have (Version1)

The dam thing is way to conservative as a dive computer if you diving the limits of recreational diving.

When I was in Truk diving on the wrecks there the bloody thing gave me a ridiculus deco time when all the other divers were out. I eventually made the call and surfaced working on the basis that everyone had a similar guided dive to me. The computer locked me out and when you consider I was far from home I was really pissed. I eventually worked out if you take off rear the cover pull the battery and reset the computer you can redive. NB this did not stop me doing the second dive without an operational computer on the dive. Dont say it cause I know what your going to say but I wasnt going to miss the dive but it was interesting towards the end of the dive wondering how much air I had left.

PS Yes I still have it, and waiting for someone to drive over it or steal it and unfortunately the mother in law doesnt dive or I would give it to the old bag.

Kraks

5513
09-29-2008, 00:36
We dove computers in Bonaire. All Aeris. My wife and kids with an XR1 and I had an XR2. We never could have done our dives with tables. The XR2 was great and I'll buy another for my wife for Christmas.

dannybot
10-13-2008, 17:38
I have a Gekko, I like it and can fairly well compensate for the conservatism, I mostly try to take a slightly longer SI, and ascend slower. My wife has an XR-1 (air) and an Oceanic Veo 180, which is very similar to the XR-2. If I am mindful of how I am diving, I can get pretty close to matching her NDL's.

As far as a reccommendation, both work well, and both are easy to use. If you dive a square profile, the your second and additional dives will be shorter with the Gekko. I just did that in Cancun, the DM wanted to dive after a 35 min SI following a 90' dive, but the whole pack sat and stared at me while my computer counted down. But if you do more wall diving with a gradual ascent, and have a longer SI, then you would be fine. But I have also done as many as five dives a day on a multi day dive trip with no problems and no alarms.

So ask yourself: what kind of diving will I do? What shape am I in? Do I NEED the extra safety of the Suunto? What computers do the other people I dive with use? Am I willing to put up with the Suunto RGBM for a little added margin of safety? Do I want a wrist mount (the Gekko has a lower profile), or console (the Aeris will fit in almost any console, but the Gekko won't)?Answering those questions can help you make that decision.

Catt99
10-13-2008, 22:13
All this talk of "conservativism" = "safer" is bollocks. A computer takes available data (depth, time), applies known analysis against the data (algorithms), and produces an output (advice on depth/time). The "conservatism" is a product of the nature of the algorithm, whether in the "base" algorithm or via user input to the algorithm. A conservative algorithm is "safer" only if there is reason to believe that the less conservative algorithm adds risk to the user when operated correctly. Additionally, I'm no expert on modern computers or on the models discussed in this thread -- but from what I do know, many (most?) current computers permit the user to adjust the computer's output and make it more conservative, whether through "safety" modifications or altitude adjustments (i.e., provide user input on the algorithm).

You can always interpret a computer more conservatively (even if by just not pushing ND limits); you can't always interpret a computer more liberally (since you can't make the computer continue to produce usable data if you exceed its "safety limits"). The algoritms chosen by the computer manufacturers impact how conservative they are at the base level (without conservative adjustments) -- the Suuntos have a reputation for being very conservative; this reputation / fact doesn't make them better computers for the out-of-shape diver nor does it make other manufacturers' computers better for the in-shape diver.

Lj82
10-14-2008, 00:01
All this talk of "conservativism" = "safer" is bollocks. A computer takes available data (depth, time), applies known analysis against the data (algorithms), and produces an output (advice on depth/time). The "conservatism" is a product of the nature of the algorithm, whether in the "base" algorithm or via user input to the algorithm. A conservative algorithm is "safer" only if there is reason to believe that the less conservative algorithm adds risk to the user when operated correctly. Additionally, I'm no expert on modern computers or on the models discussed in this thread -- but from what I do know, many (most?) current computers permit the user to adjust the computer's output and make it more conservative, whether through "safety" modifications or altitude adjustments (i.e., provide user input on the algorithm).

You can always interpret a computer more conservatively (even if by just not pushing ND limits); you can't always interpret a computer more liberally (since you can't make the computer continue to produce usable data if you exceed its "safety limits"). The algoritms chosen by the computer manufacturers impact how conservative they are at the base level (without conservative adjustments) -- the Suuntos have a reputation for being very conservative; this reputation / fact doesn't make them better computers for the out-of-shape diver nor does it make other manufacturers' computers better for the in-shape diver.

I agree..
I rather have the choice of setting my computer to a more conservative mode IF I want to rather than be limited by the computer itself.

Zenagirl
10-14-2008, 07:53
Also keep in mind that there is NO evidence (imperical or anectodal) showing that more divers get bent using one computer brand over another.

A lot of divers like Suunto computers and there's no doubt they are good products. Personally, I won't be buying one since I prefer a less conservative computer.