PDA

View Full Version : Dry suit with a full face mask



Kidder
09-29-2007, 20:50
It would seem that a dry suit with a full face mask would be the ultimate in enviroment (cold) protection. Does anyone dive with both?

skdvr
09-29-2007, 22:40
The instructor for my dry suit class does. I will ask him tomorrow about it. He said he mainly uses it for ice diivng, but I will see what he thinks.

Phil

hydro
09-30-2007, 09:57
Many PSDs dive with both.

tc_rain
09-30-2007, 11:02
Reading this thread got me to thinking about the full-face mask. I am not interested in diving one but I am curious about the procedure for OOA. How is this done? What are the other problems associated with diving these?

paintsnow
09-30-2007, 13:16
im curious about the OOA procedures too
everyone just says that there are different procedures with a FFM but no one ever says what they are. it would help to know so that i can decide if i actually want to get one or not.

Kidder
09-30-2007, 13:22
im curious about the OOA procedures too
everyone just says that there are different procedures with a FFM but no one ever says what they are. it would help to know so that i can decide if i actually want to get one or not.

Me too actually I tried to get a new thread going to get into it. but haven't gotten any hits yet.
http://forum.scubatoys.com/showthread.php?t=4412&highlight=full+face+mask

hydro
09-30-2007, 17:56
There are a few ways to handle OOA on FFMs. Two that I'm aware of are:

(1) using a regular backup mask and receiving secondary donated from another diver. Obviously this can augment stress in already bad situation when you're having to blindly take a donated reg while switching to a backup mask and clearing.

(2) employing the use of a gas block. Think of a coax splitter, with a switch. You can plumb a two separate gas sources, one being your primary tank(s), the other being backup (eg: pony bottle), into the gas block, which then goes to one LP hose into the FFM. You flip the switch to whichever gas source you want. This is also how tech divers switch between mixes while on a FFM.

FFM training, especially with regard to PSD or commercial diving, is far more detailed, of course. There are numerous drills they teach you to perform under different scenarios.

Kidder
09-30-2007, 18:15
There are a few ways to handle OOA on FFMs. Two that I'm aware of are:

(1) using a regular backup mask and receiving secondary donated from another diver. Obviously this can augment stress in already bad situation when you're having to blindly take a donated reg while switching to a backup mask and clearing.

(2) employing the use of a gas block. Think of a coax splitter, with a switch. You can plumb a two separate gas sources, one being your primary tank(s), the other being backup (eg: pony bottle), into the gas block, which then goes to one LP hose into the FFM. You flip the switch to whichever gas source you want. This is also how tech divers switch between mixes while on a FFM.

FFM training, especially with regard to PSD or commercial diving, is far more detailed, of course. There are numerous drills they teach you to perform under different scenarios.

thanks hydro this sounds complicated. Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a back up mask. You can breath from either your or your friend's octo first and then put the back up on. This would have to be practiced though.

tc_rain
09-30-2007, 20:42
Does sound like a major pain. Do FFM actually burn through more air too? I believe I heard this somewhere.

Kidder
09-30-2007, 20:48
Does sound like a major pain. Do FFM actually burn through more air too? I believe I heard this somewhere.

I wouldn't see why they would though. unless you have a leaky seal. I would make damn sure it didn't fog up though.

tc_rain
09-30-2007, 20:59
I think someone on scubaboard mentioned a year or so ago that you use more air with a FFM. I too don't see how you would but I know nothing about them.

paintsnow
10-01-2007, 01:00
ive heard they use more air when you have to clear, but you really shouldn't have to do that all too often if you have a good seal.

also most good FFM dont fog because the cold airflow is directed over the interior of the visor, keeping it fog free without any need for defog.

where would one go about obtaining one of the gas blocks?

skdvr
10-01-2007, 06:40
ive heard they use more air when you have to clear, but you really shouldn't have to do that all too often if you have a good seal.

also most good FFM dont fog because the cold airflow is directed over the interior of the visor, keeping it fog free without any need for defog.

where would one go about obtaining one of the gas blocks?

I was talking to my dry suit instructor about these yesterday and he said that the mask will not flood. He said that you can pull it away from your face and it will not flood because of the positive pressure. I did not think to ask about air consumption.

Phil

Kidder
10-01-2007, 19:44
ive heard they use more air when you have to clear, but you really shouldn't have to do that all too often if you have a good seal.

also most good FFM dont fog because the cold airflow is directed over the interior of the visor, keeping it fog free without any need for defog.

where would one go about obtaining one of the gas blocks?

I was talking to my dry suit instructor about these yesterday and he said that the mask will not flood. He said that you can pull it away from your face and it will not flood because of the positive pressure. I did not think to ask about air consumption.

Phil

That makes sense with the positive pressure. The only thing i if you run out of air you buddy breath blind. I think a back up mask may be in order.

hydro
10-08-2007, 12:25
Sorry, just read the replies on this thread.


where would one go about obtaining one of the gas blocks?

Sartek makes a good gas block. You can also find them on www.golemgear.com.


I was talking to my dry suit instructor about these yesterday and he said that the mask will not flood. He said that you can pull it away from your face and it will not flood because of the positive pressure. I did not think to ask about air consumption.

Yes, your RMV is sometimes higher using a FFM for a few reasons:

[1] (Slightly) more dead space = increased CO2 = increased respiration
[2] Depending on the FFM, if you fit an 'aftermarket' second into the mask, it can tend to freeflow because higher end regs are more sensitive and sometimes need to be tuned down for use with FFMs.
[3] Any cracks in the seal cause positive pressure (read: free-flow)
[4] If you have comms installed, you're talking (using more gas)

As you can see, these are very dependent on the type of FFM and the diver's experience with it. Not everyone uses more air.


Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a back up mask. You can breath from either your or your friend's octo first and then put the back up on. This would have to be practiced though.

Yes, the majority of divers I know using FFMs have a backup mask. Depending on the issue, they can use either their own or their buddy's alternate air source.

cummings66
10-08-2007, 17:45
I dive with a Viking drysuit and FFM. The Viking drysuit has normally got an attached dryhood. With a dryhood, FFM, drygloves not one part of your body gets wet. It's the ultimate comfort for cold water, ie 36 degree's and below. However, if you practice OOA shares in cold water be aware that you may experience major problems doing it in cold water the first time, you'll go from warm and toasty to icy in the blink of an eye and some people can't overrule the natural instinct and will end up sucking water. That's the skill you need to practice.

A FFM is very nice, the best being the AGA mask and the others follow it.

One reason not mentioned as to why you use more air, once you put the mask on unless you have some sort of valve to breathe outside air you'll be using your tank air. Spend 10 minutes waiting for you buddies to get ready and you'll consume more air just due to that factor. Not much, but it adds up.

10-25-2007, 21:19
I use a neoprene dry suit and the nira full face mask the cold does not effect you but sometimes when you exhale it seeps into the hood, bummer!!

Searcher555
06-07-2009, 19:59
The ffm is nice, comfortable, and yes, you can flood it. I use mine for search and recovery, makes things cleaner in the nasty water, and in current, I don't have to bite the reg to keep it in my mouth. The 5 point spider harness that keeps it on my head is great. It is the same as my hazmat equipment.

As for the best masks, try a few and get the one that fits and works for you best. Some will recommend the AGA, which is a good mask, no issues. It's not the one I use, but I have no negative remarks to make. I've dived with teams that use them, and other than the required short maintenance steps you absolutely should take after each dive, they seem to work well.

Dive safe,
Don

bsktcase93
06-29-2009, 17:02
I dive with the AGA mask, the mask is great no complaints

acamato
06-29-2009, 20:27
[quote=A FFM is very nice, the best being the AGA mask and the others follow it.[/quote]

I have heard that the new OTS Guardian is sweet. It is very similar to the AGA with some improvements. I have heard parts are easier to get since that are US manufactured.

OTS Guardian Full Face Mask reviews and discounts, OTS (http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?Product_id=OTSGuardianFullFaceMask)

Crimediver
06-29-2009, 21:37
I have been using FFM for a hell of a long time. I own Kirby Morgans, AGA's & assorted other brands such as General Aquadynes (Think Darth Vader) and so forth. Some are older than you...
They are good and bad. I prefer diving regs than FFM. But I prefer diving FFM when using surface supplied air or diving when I need com. The most comfortable mask is the Interspiro AGA.

I use it with com and an OTS ambient air valve.

I use a Kirby Morgan gas block to be able to switch air sources if necessary. I advise to make it unnecessary. Watch your air. The KM block is solid brass unlike the Sartek. The Sartek is a delrin block. It is liable to get scored by sand and leak.

I used to use a positive pressure AGA but switched to a demand spring as I was tired of losing air with the + pressure. The AGA is so nice I am expecting Obama and Nancy Pelosi to ban it or give it to those who refuse to learn to dive. Or at least tax the crap out of the cabon dioxide it puts out.
Yes, I am pissed. Anymore damn questions about a FFM ?

pipes1004
09-20-2009, 18:04
I have used bolth the AGA and the EXO mask. Bolth are have there limitations. I personaly like the EXO that is why I own 2. The AGA is a good mask but it breaths hard at depths deeper then 60ft. I US Navy has only qualified the mask for depth at 60ft max. The AGA is good because it is lighter and the comms are not as senitive to constant water exposure. The EXO requires alot of post dive care. The exo also has a better regulor it is toatly adjust able from 90psi to 200psi operating pressure that is why it is recomened for SSA also it is the same reg used on some of KMDSI helmets. The regulator is easy to workon and doesent require alot of tools. Parts are cheap $30 for a anual service kit. One big draw back is the weight it is heaver then the aga and dose not have a same feild of view as the aga. Also it my require a padding kit to get a good seal. The EXO has a lot of comm setups and you can get a hard shell to protect you head and mount lights.