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jlittlejohn321
10-01-2007, 20:25
Well ive been seeing everyone putting up threads about solo diving and where i dive its pretty taboo. Im wondering if its recent and how dangerous it is.Im now thinking of trying it in like 10 feet of water just to see if i like so if you can help me with tips or anything have learned from solo diving.

Kingpatzer
10-01-2007, 20:40
If you know what you are doing, are cautious, conservative, and very aware of your environment, limits and training, it is no more dangerous than diving with an average buddy.

If you are a "risk taker," ignore recommended limits, push your limits and training, etc., then it's as good a way to die as any.

Bring the Payne
10-01-2007, 23:56
I dont think diving in that shallow of water is going to be much of an issue but you never know. Personally, I think solo diving would be dangerous if you are going to depths where you couldn't swim to the surface in time in case of an OOA situation. If you stay at reasonable depths and know the area it could possibly be alright. I will only dive with a buddy though.

WaScubaDude
10-02-2007, 10:38
Well ive been seeing everyone putting up threads about solo diving and where i dive its pretty taboo. Im wondering if its recent and how dangerous it is.Im now thinking of trying it in like 10 feet of water just to see if i like so if you can help me with tips or anything have learned from solo diving.

Depends on who you are diving with! hahaha

Seriously, there are other great threads on this subject. At minimum you should be an experienced, knowledgable, confident diver. In addition you would carry a redundant breathing system (pony bottle and reg) A signal sausage and reel, as well as leaving your dive plans and return time with someone trusted at the surface. There is a "solo diver certification" that might be a great idea if you are thinking of it.

awap
10-02-2007, 11:48
I dont think diving in that shallow of water is going to be much of an issue but you never know. Personally, I think solo diving would be dangerous if you are going to depths where you couldn't swim to the surface in time in case of an OOA situation. If you stay at reasonable depths and know the area it could possibly be alright. I will only dive with a buddy though.

From an OOA standpoint, deep solo may be less dangerous that deep buddy diving because the solo diver would be equipped with an inseperable redundant air source sized for the planned dive. The added danger with deep solo is mostly the effects of narcosis. You know what they say: "Two half brains are better than one."

WV Diver
10-02-2007, 12:02
I moved this thread to the solo diver forum.

MSilvia
10-02-2007, 12:37
How dangerous it is to dive solo depends entirely on how prepared you are to address problems that occur while diving solo. If there isn't anyone to help you, how dangerous would it be for you to lose a mask, run out of gas, get caught or entangled, have any sort of gear malfunction, etc.? If you're not prepared to deal with those issues calmly and without surfacing, IMHO you aren't very safe when diving solo.

CompuDude
10-02-2007, 12:53
It's not dangerous at all, as long as absolutely nothing goes wrong.

If anything at all goes wrong, however, gear and training is the only thing that's going to maybe save your life.

Do you have loved ones you are responsible to? Children? A wife? How would they feel if you died while solo diving? Things to consider. Solo diving should not be taken lightly. Even in 10' of water... people drown in their backyard pools with frightening regularity. And it only takes 1" of water to drown.

awap
10-02-2007, 13:05
It's not dangerous at all, as long as absolutely nothing goes wrong.

If anything at all goes wrong, however, gear and training is the only thing that's going to maybe save your life.

Do you have loved ones you are responsible to? Children? A wife? How would they feel if you died while solo diving? Things to consider. Solo diving should not be taken lightly. Even in 10' of water... people drown in their backyard pools with frightening regularity. And it only takes 1" of water to drown.


OTOH, by going solo you have eliminated about half the things that could go wrong -- the buddy. I'm sure that diving with a good buddy is probably a bit safer than diving solo. But I also believe that you may be better off solo that with a bad buddy.

If you are really worried about the wife and kids, then you probably should just give up scuba. Folks die doing it. You should be ashamed of that one CD.

Bring the Payne
10-02-2007, 13:07
I dont think diving in that shallow of water is going to be much of an issue but you never know. Personally, I think solo diving would be dangerous if you are going to depths where you couldn't swim to the surface in time in case of an OOA situation. If you stay at reasonable depths and know the area it could possibly be alright. I will only dive with a buddy though.

From an OOA standpoint, deep solo may be less dangerous that deep buddy diving because the solo diver would be equipped with an inseperable redundant air source sized for the planned dive. The added danger with deep solo is mostly the effects of narcosis. You know what they say: "Two half brains are better than one."

You bring up a good point. If you are going to dive solo you had better have another source of air. The question is...do most solo divers have that? I would hope so but who knows.

CompuDude
10-02-2007, 13:38
It's not dangerous at all, as long as absolutely nothing goes wrong.

If anything at all goes wrong, however, gear and training is the only thing that's going to maybe save your life.

Do you have loved ones you are responsible to? Children? A wife? How would they feel if you died while solo diving? Things to consider. Solo diving should not be taken lightly. Even in 10' of water... people drown in their backyard pools with frightening regularity. And it only takes 1" of water to drown.


OTOH, by going solo you have eliminated about half the things that could go wrong -- the buddy. I'm sure that diving with a good buddy is probably a bit safer than diving solo. But I also believe that you may be better off solo that with a bad buddy.

If you are really worried about the wife and kids, then you probably should just give up scuba. Folks die doing it. You should be ashamed of that one CD.

Not even remotely. There are ways to do scuba with a very reasonable amount of safety. Certainly as safe or safer than commuting to work every day. People die there, too. (and don't try to say it's necessary to drive to work... people die driving to Blockbuster, also) A flat tire is not necessarily fatal. An entanglement at depth with a buddy is probably not fatal, either. The exact same entanglement at depth without a buddy could easily be fatal.

I'll solo dive on occasion, but don't ever plan to let my wife know. I'm very choosy about the circumstances I will do so, however. I also don't have any kids. If I ever do have kids, that will be the end of any solo diving whatsoever, no matter how safe the conditions seem.

awap
10-02-2007, 14:12
[QUOTE=CompuDude;66038
Not even remotely. There are ways to do scuba with a very reasonable amount of safety. Certainly as safe or safer than commuting to work every day. People die there, too. (and don't try to say it's necessary to drive to work... people die driving to Blockbuster, also) A flat tire is not necessarily fatal. An entanglement at depth with a buddy is probably not fatal, either. The exact same entanglement at depth without a buddy could easily be fatal.

I'll solo dive on occasion, but don't ever plan to let my wife know. I'm very choosy about the circumstances I will do so, however. I also don't have any kids. If I ever do have kids, that will be the end of any solo diving whatsoever, no matter how safe the conditions seem.[/QUOTE]


I take it your wife does not read this board.

My point is that solo diving need not be any more dangerous than buddy diving if you take appropriate precautions. Attitude, planning and conservativism are important to keeping it safe along with redundancy that would normally be provided by a buddy. Sure there are conditions where a solo diver may have a serious problem that a buddy could have easily resolved. I believe this added risk is fully offset by the additional conservativism inherent to safe solo diving.

I've only seen one diver death. He was buddied when he entered the water, but solo when he disappeared. And that seems to be to be the biggest problem. Folks who think they are buddy diving but end up as unprepare, ill equipped solo divers.

Like you, I only solo dive on occasion. But my wife is usually the one who knows what my plans are, and knows when to call for help if I come up missing. Part of proper solo dive planning includes planning for such contingencies.

CompuDude
10-02-2007, 14:21
A bad buddy is certainly a potential source for danger, but that can easily be avoided by not diving with the bad buddy. Be a little more choosy about who you dive with, and this problem is avoided before you ever set foot in the water.

I still stand by my point that solo diving can be perfectly safe ... as long as nothing goes wrong. (Ditto for buddy diving, for that matter) But when things do go wrong, good buddy or not, the odds of survival go up dramatically when someone else is there to help... or at least send for help.

Solo diving is all about managing risk. If you don't have the option to dive with good buddies and still need to dive badly enough that solo is your best option, get trained, plan properly, and hopefully everything will be ok.

Rockhound76
10-02-2007, 15:17
A properly prepared and trained solo diver is pretty safe. I've been diving solo, both tended (from a boat a few times) and completely alone (beach dives, many times). I have kids and a wife and would never take any risk I would consider unreasonable (that's why I don't ride a motorcycle on the street).

My wife was always aware and usually with me (on the beach or boat) when I made these dives. On the rare occasions when she was not with me, I made sure she knew when to expect me to be back or call.

These days, I have a good buddy in my son, so I'm less likely to go solo. But, I still think it-solo diving- carried little additional risk burden in those SPECIFIC circumstances and certainly can be less risky than diving with many insta-buddies, all other things being equal (same locations, same conditions, same depths).

My most dangerous moment underwater involved panicked insta-buddies. Both times, no one was hurt, but both times my dive was ruined (as was theirs). My preference is to share the experience with a good friend and good diver, but often traveling divers w/o diving friends/family with them, are more beggars than choosers when it comes to selecting a dive partner.

awap
10-02-2007, 15:26
A bad buddy is certainly a potential source for danger, but that can easily be avoided by not diving with the bad buddy. Be a little more choosy about who you dive with, and this problem is avoided before you ever set foot in the water.

What do yhou do when you and your buddy have scheduled and payed for a W/E offshore trip and yoput buddy has to cancel last minute? Do you walk away from the unrefundable trip or take what you get when you pair up with an insta-buddy. BTW, this is a recreational dive trip, not tech/DIR.

I go with the insta-buddy. But I am prepared to go solo should the need arise.

CompuDude
10-02-2007, 15:50
A bad buddy is certainly a potential source for danger, but that can easily be avoided by not diving with the bad buddy. Be a little more choosy about who you dive with, and this problem is avoided before you ever set foot in the water.

What do yhou do when you and your buddy have scheduled and payed for a W/E offshore trip and yoput buddy has to cancel last minute? Do you walk away from the unrefundable trip or take what you get when you pair up with an insta-buddy. BTW, this is a recreational dive trip, not tech/DIR.

I go with the insta-buddy. But I am prepared to go solo should the need arise.

I agree 100%. It is still a calculated risk, either way.

ccarter
10-02-2007, 16:14
A properly prepared and trained solo diver is pretty safe. I've been diving solo, both tended (from a boat a few times) and completely alone (beach dives, many times). I have kids and a wife and would never take any risk I would consider unreasonable (that's why I don't ride a motorcycle on the street).

My wife was always aware and usually with me (on the beach or boat) when I made these dives. On the rare occasions when she was not with me, I made sure she knew when to expect me to be back or call.

These days, I have a good buddy in my son, so I'm less likely to go solo. But, I still think it-solo diving- carried little additional risk burden in those SPECIFIC circumstances and certainly can be less risky than diving with many insta-buddies, all other things being equal (same locations, same conditions, same depths).

My most dangerous moment underwater involved panicked insta-buddies. Both times, no one was hurt, but both times my dive was ruined (as was theirs). My preference is to share the experience with a good friend and good diver, but often traveling divers w/o diving friends/family with them, are more beggars than choosers when it comes to selecting a dive partner.
Well said.. I don't really like diving with people I'm not familiar with (ie close friend/family) and I refuse to dive with some unknown person--that's just not my bag. To me that's more of a risk than going solo.. as I have no idea what the person is really capable of and how calm they might or might not be under the water if something happens. Luckily I'm able to do just about any dive I want to with my brother and/or cousin which have both been certified longer than me.

I also find it's easier to dive with family members as far as giving and receiving advice.. at least for me.

somewhereinla
10-02-2007, 18:33
I think like most things one needs to use common sense. I wouldn't go solo diving in an area I don't know or without proper planning, which by the way doesn't start when you get there but rather days before. You want to plan, plan and plan which mean knowing the site you want to dive at, checking out the conditions for that day, such as: tides, winds, temperatures, swell, barometric pressure, moon cycle, currents, rips... etc... so that you can determine the conditions for that day. Then on that day you should tell someone what your plan is going to be, where you are going to be diving, which direction how deep you are planning to go and what activities you want to do. Bringing a dive float is also a good idea, it can help people see the area you are diving at... + it give you an island to hang on to should you have a problem. A float is also great to keep fresh water, snacks and even a cell phone. And last you will want to have a back up air supply (ponny), a marker sausage, an emergency whisle or intgrated sound device, a light stick etc...
Don't dive solo in places you have never dived before, that's plain stupid. If you dive solo, dive in places you are already very familiar with and again use common sense and proper planning.

RTBROWN
10-02-2007, 23:09
You'll get a lot of differnt opinions on this one as with any other one.

Diving with a partner or not, I always behave as though I will have to take care of myself if something goes in an unfavorble direction. I never have asked, but I have wondered if my buddy would be able to get to me on time, or if he/she was aware of what I was doing or where I was.
One always has to have that little section of the brain working on automatic so that if something goes bad you can react to it in a quick and decisive manner, without panic, etcetera. I watch my guages as if my life depends on them. And I never expect my buddy to come save me if something goes wrong.
The deeper one goes the riskier it gets I think... You do have to know how long you can hold your breath to get to the surface if you need to, depending on depth...
The bottom line as far as buddies is to find one if you can, I think, that you can dive regularly with and be familiar with and have good communication and expectations with above and below the water.
Diving solo is not the best way to go. But it can be done safely if you are prepared and have that little section of your brain working for you.

RoadRacer1978
10-10-2007, 14:24
Solo diving is not new to the sport. It is just new that it is actually being talked about. There are still mixed feelings on the whole issue and you need to decide what is right for you and your situation. If you are responsible, plan the dive, have a redundant air source and are not trying to dive beyond you training or abilities, then I see no reason why someone shouldn't dive solo. Is it more risky than diving with a good dive buddy, probably so. Is it more risky than diving with a bad dive buddy, proably not. The choise is yours. Understand the risks and do everything you can to minimize the risks just like you would for any other high risk activity you would pursue. And diving, solo or buddy, is high risk. With training and planning we have made it much safer, but it is still a high risk sport.

Timeliner
10-10-2007, 19:17
Well ive been seeing everyone putting up threads about solo diving and where i dive its pretty taboo. Im wondering if its recent and how dangerous it is.Im now thinking of trying it in like 10 feet of water just to see if i like so if you can help me with tips or anything have learned from solo diving.

Someday ... if you dive, You'll be someplace deep. Lets just call it a common Rec. Depth like 100 feet. Or maybe you like to dive low vis. lakes (like many real divers). Suddenly your buddy just vanishes. You'll be solo then weather you like it or not.

So why wait till then ? :smiley13:

Texas_Aggie06
10-11-2007, 10:42
i'd think that if you are close enough to the surface to do a CESA then you are probably fine. just don't push your time limits.

fire diver
10-11-2007, 11:42
Solo diving can be safer than some buddy dives. If you want to solo dive for any number of reasons, just put some thought into it. Solo-ing needs diving experience. You need to have had some problems with support around you so that you know how you'll react under those situations. Solo alos requires redundancy. CESA is almost a non-option, and shouldn't be anything but an absolute last resort. Redundant lift, redundant gas, redundant mask, redundant cutting tools, redundant timer.

FD

comet24
10-11-2007, 12:06
I didn't read everyones post but here is my take on solo diving. Like buddy diving it's all about managing risk. Know the risks going in and prepare correctly.

How many times have you turned to find your buddy and he's not there. You may still see him but he's not right there. Even 30' with a full set of gear can trouble if you have a major problem. While diving with a buddy is great you should also learn to deal with things yourself.

RoadRacer1978
10-11-2007, 16:57
Agree with timelimer. Especially about lake diving in low vis being real diving :smilie40:. That otta start some flaming :smilie39::smilie39:. Seriously, buddy seperation can happen and if you are already solo diving, it might not be as scary of a thing when you buddy goes awol on ya. You can follow the predetermined plan on buddy seperation like reuniting on the surface or whatever the plan was and you can do it relaxed and without any additional stress if you are already confident and comfortable about being alone.

wheelman
10-11-2007, 17:28
All good points... I agree the most with being prepared and trained! Even diving with a buddy, at some point you will have to rely on yourself to deal with a situation. I have only been diving for about 2 yrs and it has already happened to me. I don't dive solo and dive with people I believe I can trust but until the rubber meets the road you never know.

subsur
10-13-2007, 12:37
i often see solo divers, usually people going to catch lobsters for lunch or dinner or maybe even breakfast. it's ok to solo dive around here as long as diver is aware of the risks associated with buddy-less dive and takes steps to minimize those risks. btw, after diving with several people, i'm of an opinion that it's better to do solo diving than diving with some individuals. in any case, if it's a deep dive, having a pony or doubles would be advisable. if it's a shallow dive, then pony can be sufficient. having cutting tools is a good idea as well as safety sausage.

RECDiver
10-15-2007, 16:16
Solo diving is probably as old as diving itself. I am aware of divers solo diving in the late 70s when I got certified. I see it quite often around here. There is risk in diving with or without a dive partner. The amount of increased risk depends on how you are prepared equipment wise, physically and mentally. As far as dangerous, you can make as dangerous as you want, but I would not recommend it.

CaptainRon
10-15-2007, 20:02
I think several others here have mentioned risk management. Everything we do in life involves risk management, from diving to taking a walk down the sidewalk. In a risk management class I took last semester, we learned that there is no right or wrong answer to the question of "is it safe enough". You have to look at the dangers, considered past accident causes, your level of training, and the amount of risk you, as an individual, are willing to accept in relation to the reward.

As in any dive situation, rely on your best judgment and never attempt anything that you personally feel is not worth the risk.

pnevai
10-15-2007, 22:34
Ok I'll be the first to say solo diving is dangerous. There it is plain and simple. The only thing that varies is the level of the danger. The biggest danger is not necessarily the environment or the conditions but diver compacency. It is a natural human trait to become complacent in familiar surroundings and when we enter a personal comfort zone. Have you ever driven by radar? You get in your car on a very familiar commute or a longer familiar trip and at some point realize that you could not recount parts of the trip? What cars you passed or what cars passed you, how many times you changed lanes etc? It is this type of complacecy that many times causes accidents on the road.

As divers gain more experience, get familiar with an area, gain comfort at depth, complacency becomes their greates enemy. Even diving with a horrible insta buddy is an advantage because it keeps you from being complacent, it focuses your attention on the other individual if not on yourself and keeps you sharp. Plus having to keep track of a buddy as they have to keep track of you increases awareness.

Diving alone there are no distractions from your own private Idaho. You start out at a certain depth and figure what the heck anothe 5 feet won't matter, or just a few seconds longer and I'll catch that lobster, or if I wriggle just a little further under that ledge I'll be able to get a grip on that bug. Yhe list goes on and on. Scuba has a natural calming effect. (weightless ness, rythmatic movement) and with that comes relaxation and on it's heels for the experienced diver complacency.

Solo diving also sucks in that there is no one there afterwards to share the experience with. You get out of the water, trudge the long trudge back up the beach to the car without any freindly banter or help getting off that damned heavy gear.

I solo dive but only in very defined areas and situations. Never ever in greater than 50ft. Most are in 25 feet or less. Almost never during a boat dive (Usually deeper or drift dives) and then stay within a short swim from the anchor line. Never with no one on biard the boat and I never do multiple dives in one day solo. The excuse that some give of buddies leaving you all by your self after a dive begins means you have to learn to dive solo anyway is misguided. YOu have choices. when that happens you can always terminate the dive, period. That is no reason to start exploring on your own. There is nothing down there that is worth being shipped home in a body bag, that is if they ever recover the body.

Now that I have laid out the realities of solo diveing does that mean you can not dive solo in relatively safety. Certainly not. It just means you have to know yourself very very well. Know without a doubt you can remain in calm in any emergency, and be very very proficent at diving self rescue techniuqes. If you tend to be impulsive, distracted easily and a generally daring type of induividual then solo diving is NOT for you. Take up sky diving you'll live longer.

cooltravelnews
10-16-2007, 03:23
Many people do it when there are lots of critters to see or photograph. People who just get paired on the boat. Those last minute couples from hell. On 3-dives over the last 200 I came close to drowning diving apart. I recognize the risk and when you get stuck with someone who is doing their own thing you may be in deep ****!

Been there done that!:smiley21:

Cozumel 2006-- 70' water clear, diving with last minute mate up. Partner looking at corals & I am a fish & coral guy. My Dacor Vipertec blows up and free flows 1500lbs in one minute while I tried to unstick it. (*The boat guy switched my reg before I could do it myself. That reg is a DEATH TRAP for a novice.)

If you push on the screen it can and will stick and that ______ guy got mine.

Now I have a fabulous Atomic B2 Titanium Awesome reg worked fabulous at 175' on 14-deep deco dives. Highly recommended reg!

I was forced to race to the surface since my reg gave me a mouth full of Cozumel's fine water, I was drowning fast and I saw my partner at about 20'. No way in hell to make it there.

You have air in your lungs so I made it, but it messed up my ear and lost 3-days of diving and weakened my ear leaving it easy for problems. Lost a little hearing too!

**** can happen with a partner too!
Grenada: 1995 Diving with Dive Grenada-- diving with a really hot nurse from the School of the Americans. The boat was short on weights and had some weird sizes. Dive op said this was enough for the both of us. I should have said no way, but I wanted to dive the largest ocean liner in the Caribbean, the Bianca C Italian Cruise ship. Use it or lose the dive!

All went well until we hit the bow at 121' and we ran low on air & we both started going up feet first kicking like an Olympic race to the moon. :smiley21:

If the dive master had not had a couple of extra weights we would both have been dead or severely bent!

**** Happens and divers who let the dive master control their fate may never live to tell the tale!

DEAD MEN TELL NO TALES!!:smiley11::smiley11:

CompuDude
10-16-2007, 04:59
cooltravelnews:

I don't disagree with your sentiment.

And I'll give you the reg malfunction.

But going low on air at 121' with an Al.80 (just guessing), regardless of weights, is all on you. And not a buddy's fault. How is that about solo diving?

fire diver
10-16-2007, 08:45
Cozumel 2006-- 70' water My Dacor Vipertec blows up and free flows 1500lbs in one minute while I tried to unstick it. I was forced to race to the surface since my reg gave me a mouth full of Cozumel's fine water, I was drowning fast and I saw my partner at about 20'. No way in hell to make it there.

Grenada: 1995 Diving with Dive Grenada-- Dive op said this was enough for the both of us. I should have said no way, but I wanted to dive the largest ocean liner in the Caribbean, the Bianca C Italian Cruise ship. Use it or lose the dive!

All went well until we hit the bow at 121' and we ran low on air & we both started going up feet first kicking like an Olympic race to the moon.

Here are the problems I see.

You spent a full minute dicking around with a free-flowing reg when your buddy was 20 feet away. How can you not swim 20'? OW students do more than that with one breath.

Breathing from a free-flowing reg is another BOW skill.

You went screaming for the surface when other options are open to you. That's called panic, and PANIC is what kills divers.

Grenada - You didn't excercise sound judgement. You knew you didn't have enough weight and yet you did the dive anyway.

you were diving deeper than a single tank (I assume AL80???) was meant to be dove.

YOU FAILED TO MONITOR YOUR AIR SUPPLY and went OOA.

Then mistakes #1, 2 & 3 almost got you in trouble. I hope you tipped your DM a huge amount. He deserved it.

I fail to see how any of this impacts solo-diving. Solo diving is about being better than an average diver, knowing yourself, knowing your equipment, and knowing your environment.

shadragon
10-16-2007, 08:54
How dangerous is solo diving?

How dangerous is it to cross the street? It depends... On the volume of traffic, the time of day, the weather and all the other variables.

So the answer is, it depends... You can go to 120' and have no issue then be at 7' and get entangled. You can start in high viz and end up in 0 viz. There are currents, there are obstacles, there are other dangers. It is no different than going with a buddy. You look at the environment and planned dive profile and you make the determination of what you are going to do and if you can do it safely.

Take the solo course and at least go into it with a bit of education. I would do that BEFORE going solo, even at 10'. You need certain gear and training to enhance your survival chances if things go wrong. You need to have solid navigation and swimming skills because you will not have someone helping you if you have issues. Plan for the worse case scenario, carry appropriate gear and ensure it is well maintained.

Dive safe...

fire diver
10-16-2007, 09:00
As divers gain more experience, get familiar with an area, gain comfort at depth, complacency becomes their greates enemy. Even diving with a horrible insta buddy is an advantage because it keeps you from being complacent, it focuses your attention on the other individual if not on yourself and keeps you sharp. Plus having to keep track of a buddy as they have to keep track of you increases awareness.

Solo diving also sucks in that there is no one there afterwards to share the experience with. You get out of the water, trudge the long trudge back up the beach to the car without any freindly banter or help getting off that damned heavy gear.


I would argue the exact opposite. Diving with a buddy every single time builds complacency. Always relying on someone else to solve your problems. And those horror-buddies. How can spending all your dive babysitting them make you better? You either know to watch your own time, depth and air or you don't. Horror-buddies just make you an unpaid DM for that dive.

Why do you feel the need to yammer on and on with another person about things you BOTH saw? I don't "trudge" out of the water. I stride. I come out of a dive PUMPED about what I just did and saw. I never want help with my gear, even when I do have buddies. If I can't carry it, or put it on myself, I have no business diving.

FD

rainmaker
10-16-2007, 09:46
When I spent a year in a combat zone, folks said I was serving my country.

When I was driving to work each morning on a crowded Interstate highway at 80 mph, folks said I was just driving to work.

When I was enduring god-awful stress everyday for 17 years in management for a large financial services corporation, people said I was just earning a living.

When I was stuck in a bad marriage for years and the relationship had turned toxic, people said I just needed to work on my marriage.

When I lived in a large city where there were murders, rapes, robberies, burglaries and mayhem occuring on a daily basis, people said I was just living the American dream.

When I dive in 40 feet of water in an area where I've dived hundreds of times, with 3 regs, 2 tanks, 2 masks, a dive computer, a back-up depth gauge, a back-up bottom timer, 2 knives and 1 EMT scissors, folks say, "Oh, My God, you are going to die!!!"

fire diver
10-16-2007, 10:01
How true, how true!

shadragon
10-16-2007, 10:11
cooltravelnews - Your profile gives no training or background info so forgive me if I make a few assumptions based on your post. They may be erroneous, but feel free to provide more of your background.

You say you have 200 dives, some 14 of them in DECO to 175', yet you refer to yourself as a novice. I find it hard to believe that someone trained to do DECO would not know basic gas management and when to thumb a dive based on remaining PSI. OK, and you say you had a buddy 20' away yet you chose to go to the surface 70' away? That makes no sense. You must have learned how to breathe from a free flowing reg as part of your OW, yes? Did you not have an Octo yourself to breathe off while you played with the bad reg and during the ascent? If you burned through 1500 PSI and only had 1500 PSI then you played with it far too long.

"*The boat guy switched my reg before I could do it myself." - Huh???

"I should have said no way, but I wanted to dive the largest ocean liner in the Caribbean, the Bianca C Italian Cruise ship. Use it or lose the dive!" You should have had weights squared away before the boat left the dock. If you had inadequate weights then you should have called the dive. Lose the dive or lose your life... Your choice.

"All went well until we hit the bow at 121'" The bow of the Bianca C is around 90 feet. 121' takes you into the level of the second class swimming pool. This I don't understand. You say the DM carried enough weights for two under weighted divers needing to kick furiously to stay down at depth. Typical AL80's have about 5 pounds of positive buoyancy when at 500 psi. I don't know any DM's that carry 10 pounds (or more) of extra weight on each dive.

"On 3-dives over the last 200 I came close to drowning diving apart. I recognize the risk and when you get stuck with someone who is doing their own thing you may be in deep ****!" Sorry but if you are habitually either losing track of your buddy or swimming that far from an alternative air source then you need to swim closer or invest in a Pony. If you are too far away then it is on you not your buddy.

Everything you described is preventable. Even when you recognized danger ahead of time, you chose to ignore it. You "recognize the risk", but don't do anything to negate or reduce it. Yet, you seem to be blaming everyone else around you for the issues. You need to take a SCUBA review course and start working on the basics for buoyancy, free flow regs and basic gas management / dive planning. A CESA is the last option and any diver that lets a situation get to that point screwed up badly.

CompuDude
10-16-2007, 10:57
I obviously agree with the criticism of cooltravelnews' "scenarios" but I will note, for the record, that I *think* he meant he was at 70 fsw and his buddy was at 20 fsw... not simple 20 feet away. That's why, with a freeflowing reg dumping gobs of air at 70 fsw, I didn't pick on that particular scenario very much.

I will note this, as an aside on the general topic: A lot of the horror stories I'm reading here are centered around horrific insta-buddies. It again comes down to choice in those situations: You CHOSE to get in the water with an insta-buddy, rather than planning properly and bringing along a reliable buddy. And that's the part that seems to be left out of this discussion a lot. Instead of complaining so much about horrible buddies, perhaps a better solution than solo diving would be to find a good, safe buddy? There are a lot of horrid divers out there. But there are also quite a lot of really good divers who make excellent buddies and teammates. Perhaps more effort and emphasis should be placed on finding one... and making arrangements for the presence of a known good and skilled buddy part of the pre-dive planning.

fire diver
10-16-2007, 11:21
We hear about the horror insta-buddies, becuase those are "stories". Who wants to come write "I had this insta-buddy and they were great. Dive went smooth, just like if I was at home."

People tend to want to gawk at the train-wrecks.

FD

shadragon
10-16-2007, 12:52
I will note this, as an aside on the general topic: A lot of the horror stories I'm reading here are centered around horrific insta-buddies.
While there are obvious advantages to diving with someone, self reliance should be given more of an emphasis. If you always rely on someone else to be there to get you out of trouble, you will eventually be disappointed...

My regular buddy and I go solo diving together... ;)

CompuDude
10-16-2007, 12:53
We hear about the horror insta-buddies, becuase those are "stories". Who wants to come write "I had this insta-buddy and they were great. Dive went smooth, just like if I was at home."

People tend to want to gawk at the train-wrecks.

FD

Gawk, and use them as justification for having NO buddy.

Trains (and cars) crash sometimes. Better walk, they're not EVER safe!

mm2002
11-10-2007, 13:42
My last dive was solo, and the second dive of the day. My wife got a little chilled after the first dive, but I wanted to make another. I don't honestly feel that I was in any extreme danger down there, but I also feel I planned the dive safely. I had 2500psi in my tank, had a spare air, and only went to 15-20 feet in a very familiar area that is free of any obstacles or entanglement hazards, and the vis was good. I planned the dive for 20 minutes, and when that 20 minutes was up I went back to shore. I checked my air supply often, moved around slowly, and kept very aware of my surroundings.
If anything extreme had happened at that depth, I feel quite confident that if all else failed I could ditch all my gear and swim to the surface!
I know I'm not a very experienced diver, and that was my 16th dive, but I felt very safe and confident that I wasn't exposing myself to any real danger.
So, my opinion is that solo diving can be dangerous, but it can also be safe if planned correctly.

Puffer Fish
11-11-2007, 23:02
We hear about the horror insta-buddies, becuase those are "stories". Who wants to come write "I had this insta-buddy and they were great. Dive went smooth, just like if I was at home."

People tend to want to gawk at the train-wrecks.

FD

Ok, the majority of insta-buddies I dive with are just fine, don't know how they would be in an emergency, because I'm doing everything I can to avoid that from happening.

However, I always plan the dive, as if I were doing a solo dive, because I don't think I can trust some perfect stranger.

BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)
11-13-2007, 15:02
Ok, the majority of insta-buddies I dive with are just fine, don't know how they would be in an emergency, because I'm doing everything I can to avoid that from happening.

However, I always plan the dive, as if I were doing a solo dive, because I don't think I can trust some perfect stranger.

Good advice. Unfortunately I have to dive frequently with insta-buddies. That's why my next purchase is a pony bottle. My thinking is: if insta-buddy goes OOA I can hand it to them. If I have a gas supply problem I don't have to rely on them.

Just as I don't swim in a pool with no one around, I don't dive with no one around. I don't count on anyone for my safety in either venue, but it does add at least a chance that someone might help me or at least call EMS if I am unable.

c.edmiston
11-15-2007, 22:07
Is there a solo diver specialty course? And, what skills are covered?

mm2002
11-16-2007, 10:04
How could you take a "solo" course? Wouldn't there have to be an instructor?:smiley2:

Grin
11-24-2007, 09:15
I'll tell you what. I love solo diving! 90% of my diving is solo while spearfishing. To me it is so much more relaxing and enjoyable. Done correctly and well thought out, and prepared correctly, solo diving is very safe. I do think it requires a certain type of person though. Get a pony, read, rig and think out and test every possible situation you can think of, and you will become a much better diver overall. Obviously there are dives that should be done with a partner, and some dives that require a partner to be truly safe. Solo diving should make you a little more interested in your dive gear and maintenance and preparation. Not relying on anyone is a good feeling. And when you get to the point you feel safer and less stressed solo, you are really feeling good. It appears to me many are afraid to be alone. I think that's very bad. Their partner they depend on is likely also in that same, afraid to be alone, boat. That is the person your relying on to save your life? Someone whos primary minset is, your there to save them, not they are there to save you. I'm sure there are partners who dive extremly reliably as dive buddies, but I feel they are the very few and not the mainstream.
If nothing else, dive with a buddy, but think solo. Rig and treat every dive as solo. There is no better feeling than having a pony rigged(100% redundancy on gas supply) and having practiced a few situations like accents(controlled bouyancy) without your depth gauge etc...
Being 100% self reliant is hard to argue as a bad thing.

ozarkdiver
06-05-2008, 16:19
A properly prepared and trained solo diver is pretty safe. I've been diving solo, both tended (from a boat a few times) and completely alone (beach dives, many times). I have kids and a wife and would never take any risk I would consider unreasonable (that's why I don't ride a motorcycle on the street).

My wife was always aware and usually with me (on the beach or boat) when I made these dives. On the rare occasions when she was not with me, I made sure she knew when to expect me to be back or call.

These days, I have a good buddy in my son, so I'm less likely to go solo. But, I still think it-solo diving- carried little additional risk burden in those SPECIFIC circumstances and certainly can be less risky than diving with many insta-buddies, all other things being equal (same locations, same conditions, same depths).

My most dangerous moment underwater involved panicked insta-buddies. Both times, no one was hurt, but both times my dive was ruined (as was theirs). My preference is to share the experience with a good friend and good diver, but often traveling divers w/o diving friends/family with them, are more beggars than choosers when it comes to selecting a dive partner.
Well said.. I don't really like diving with people I'm not familiar with (ie close friend/family) and I refuse to dive with some unknown person--that's just not my bag. To me that's more of a risk than going solo.. as I have no idea what the person is really capable of and how calm they might or might not be under the water if something happens. Luckily I'm able to do just about any dive I want to with my brother and/or cousin which have both been certified longer than me.

I also find it's easier to dive with family members as far as giving and receiving advice.. at least for me.
The bad insta-buddy is a problem all divers face (or will). If the agencies are going to frown on solo-diving (their reason being that it's unsafe), then they should be just as adamant about telling divers to refuse to be buddied up with a stranger. Some may feel solo-diving is more dangerous than buddy-diving, but buddy-diving with a stranger is DEFINITELY more dangerous than solo-diving.

rainmaker
06-06-2008, 09:46
Is there a solo diver specialty course? And, what skills are covered?

SDI (Scuba Diving International) offers a solo diving course. Finding an LDS that offers the course could be a bit of a challenge, though.

My LDS (Bermuda Triangle in Greenville, SC) plans to offer the course soon and I expect I'll take it. Flashing the cert card at a PADI dive operator who starts foaming at the mouth at the mention of solo diving would be fun, IMHO.

ozarkdiver
06-06-2008, 16:01
Is there a solo diver specialty course? And, what skills are covered?

SDI (Scuba Diving International) offers a solo diving course. Finding an LDS that offers the course could be a bit of a challenge, though.

My LDS (Bermuda Triangle in Greenville, SC) plans to offer the course soon and I expect I'll take it. Flashing the cert card at a PADI dive operator who starts foaming at the mouth at the mention of solo diving would be fun, IMHO.
Amen to that!

david_57
06-06-2008, 16:58
If you have the experience training and equipment Solo diving in my opinion is very safe. I have seen other divers especially the DIR's cringe at the mention of Solo diving with a Pony, you gotta love it!

Wreck penetration or pinnacle dives I would never do Solo

Largo
06-06-2008, 21:09
When I was a new diver, I got entangled in some nylon cord, and I was very grateful that I had a buddy there to untangle me.

On the other hand; a bad buddy can be worse than no buddy at all.

Maybe one way to develop your own philosophy about the practice is to research which agencies offer solo diver courses, and which ones refuse to do so.

I dive alone sometimes, but they are not difficult or deep dives. Funny, but I find solo dives more relaxing.

texdiveguy
06-06-2008, 22:42
If you have the experience training and equipment Solo diving in my opinion is very safe. I have seen other divers especially the DIR's cringe at the mention of Solo diving with a Pony, you gotta love it! Wreck penetration or pinnacle dives I would never do Solo

Its funny....many serious wreck and cave divers much prefer to penetrate solo....I enjoy deep o/w solo dives just as much as within a team structure.

PS-- who gives a rat what DIR divers think!

:)

david_57
06-16-2008, 20:53
PS-- who gives a rat what DIR divers think!

:)[/quote]


Not I that's for sure got no use for them:smiley2:

Crimediver
06-16-2008, 22:19
DIR divers are team divers and that is how they dive. I cannot fault them. The kind of diving I have done for the past 40 years has been predominately solo diving. But I have made dives partnered with buddies that adhered to DIR philosophies.
A lot of my diving is shallow , fast moving water where I am easily seperated from a partner. I am prepared to do both. One is not necessarily better than another. they are just, well, different...
Just do what works and be damn careful.

dive10killer
06-16-2008, 22:23
With the viz in Oklahoma lakes now....every dive is a solo dive!

cmburch
06-16-2008, 23:17
There have been quite a few solo diver deaths recently. Especially over 45 years old. Could something have been done if they had a buddy? Maybe not if it was a heart attack in poor visibility conditions. Some may have been helped if a buddy was right there. I dive solo more often than with a buddy the last few years.

david_57
06-18-2008, 17:13
There have been quite a few solo diver deaths recently. Especially over 45 years old. Could something have been done if they had a buddy? Maybe not if it was a heart attack in poor visibility conditions. Some may have been helped if a buddy was right there. I dive solo more often than with a buddy the last few years.

Where and when, backup statement with facts please as this could be mis-leading especially the statement over 45! Have seen some reports of Scuba Dive deaths but none due to Solo Diving/Age.

I was under the impression Scuba Dive accidents (buddy syestem included) were up slightly as the sport is becoming more popular.

david_57
06-18-2008, 17:21
DIR divers are team divers and that is how they dive. I cannot fault them. The kind of diving I have done for the past 40 years has been predominately solo diving. But I have made dives partnered with buddies that adhered to DIR philosophies.
A lot of my diving is shallow , fast moving water where I am easily seperated from a partner. I am prepared to do both. One is not necessarily better than another. they are just, well, different...
Just do what works and be damn careful.

DIR = doing it right, implies all other cert agencies methods are doing it wrong and they are not shy to point this out, which I think is a bunch of bull.

CompuDude
06-18-2008, 18:12
DIR divers are team divers and that is how they dive. I cannot fault them. The kind of diving I have done for the past 40 years has been predominately solo diving. But I have made dives partnered with buddies that adhered to DIR philosophies.
A lot of my diving is shallow , fast moving water where I am easily seperated from a partner. I am prepared to do both. One is not necessarily better than another. they are just, well, different...
Just do what works and be damn careful.

DIR = doing it right, implies all other cert agencies methods are doing it wrong and they are not shy to point this out, which I think is a bunch of bull.

The term DIR is no longer used in any official way by those who developed it. People have realized that the unintended implication that offends others so much is not worth it. Still, the term is handy to use, easier to recognize, and has a life of it's own that is out of the control of GUE.

Jerks are jerks, DIR or not. I've met PLENTY of non-DIR jerks, but they're harder to label. Don't by a hypocrite and accuse an entire dive philosophy based on an encounter with a jerk.

That said, it's not like there aren't things that many agencies are doing that are simply wrong. Are you contended EVERYTHING they do is 100% right?

bottomdweller
06-18-2008, 18:27
I'm still a newbee and I have 2 solo dives under my belt.
The "divemaster" and I went out to the lake & were supposed to meet up with another guy who didn't show. DM was not planning on diving so in I went alone. He said he would watch my bubbles & come in if needed?
I guess this means if the bubbles stop or you don't move for a long period of time?? Anyway had two great solo dives, At 50 ft it was cold and dark in the lake & you start to get lonely. I stayed around 25-35ft most of the 2 dives and was fine, I was asked before I went in and was very comfortable with it. But I have been in the same lake (later Date)with a buddy and I got a litttle tangeled up in some rope and cable, (Vis was worse than my solo dives) but he was on top of it before I even had figured out I may be in a slight jam.
I am not planning doing a lot of solo diving myself, But if I ever have no friends it's now an option!!!!!

CompuDude
06-18-2008, 18:31
I'm still a newbee and I have 2 solo dives under my belt.
The "divemaster" and I went out to the lake & were supposed to meet up with another guy who didn't show. DM was not planning on diving so in I went alone. He said he would watch my bubbles & come in if needed?
I guess this means if the bubbles stop or you don't move for a long period of time?? Anyway had two great solo dives, At 50 ft it was cold and dark in the lake & you start to get lonely. I stayed around 25-35ft most of the 2 dives and was fine, I was asked before I went in and was very comfortable with it. But I have been in the same lake (later Date)with a buddy and I got a litttle tangeled up in some rope and cable, (Vis was worse than my solo dives) but he was on top of it before I even had figured out I may be in a slight jam.
I am not planning doing a lot of solo diving myself, But if I ever have no friends it's now an option!!!!!

That DM should have his card revoked, considering he just broke rules of every major certifying agency.

diver-wife
06-18-2008, 18:52
I'm still a newbee and I have 2 solo dives under my belt.
The "divemaster" and I went out to the lake & were supposed to meet up with another guy who didn't show. DM was not planning on diving so in I went alone. He said he would watch my bubbles & come in if needed?
I guess this means if the bubbles stop or you don't move for a long period of time?? Anyway had two great solo dives, At 50 ft it was cold and dark in the lake & you start to get lonely. I stayed around 25-35ft most of the 2 dives and was fine, I was asked before I went in and was very comfortable with it. But I have been in the same lake (later Date)with a buddy and I got a litttle tangeled up in some rope and cable, (Vis was worse than my solo dives) but he was on top of it before I even had figured out I may be in a slight jam.
I am not planning doing a lot of solo diving myself, But if I ever have no friends it's now an option!!!!!

That DM should have his card revoked, considering he just broke rules of every major certifying agency.
very true, by the time the bubbles stop, it is too late.
Pretty much everybody has hit it on the head about solo diving, under the right circumstances it is OK, if you are trained, have proper equiptment, and good conditions. On some cattleboats everybody splashes, then you are pretty much on your own, which I am fine with in proper conditions, especially if I am taking pictures, I am content to stay in a small isolated area.

bottomdweller
06-18-2008, 19:18
I'm still a newbee and I have 2 solo dives under my belt.
The "divemaster" and I went out to the lake & were supposed to meet up with another guy who didn't show. DM was not planning on diving so in I went alone. He said he would watch my bubbles & come in if needed?
I guess this means if the bubbles stop or you don't move for a long period of time?? Anyway had two great solo dives, At 50 ft it was cold and dark in the lake & you start to get lonely. I stayed around 25-35ft most of the 2 dives and was fine, I was asked before I went in and was very comfortable with it. But I have been in the same lake (later Date)with a buddy and I got a litttle tangeled up in some rope and cable, (Vis was worse than my solo dives) but he was on top of it before I even had figured out I may be in a slight jam.
I am not planning doing a lot of solo diving myself, But if I ever have no friends it's now an option!!!!!

That DM should have his card revoked, considering he just broke rules of every major certifying agency.

I have since changed to a different instructor for futher training.
I kind of thought this might be the reaction I would get from properly certified divers. now I am a more informed & more safe diver.
At least I think & hope?

dive10killer
06-18-2008, 19:28
The lake I normally dive has 2'-4' viz at this point with the rain. Almost every dive ends solo.

CompuDude
06-18-2008, 19:40
The lake I normally dive has 2'-4' viz at this point with the rain. Almost every dive ends solo.

You might want to work on your buddy skills, unless that's part of your actual dive plan.

david_57
06-18-2008, 19:56
I'm still a newbee and I have 2 solo dives under my belt.
The "divemaster" and I went out to the lake & were supposed to meet up with another guy who didn't show. DM was not planning on diving so in I went alone. He said he would watch my bubbles & come in if needed?
I guess this means if the bubbles stop or you don't move for a long period of time?? Anyway had two great solo dives, At 50 ft it was cold and dark in the lake & you start to get lonely. I stayed around 25-35ft most of the 2 dives and was fine, I was asked before I went in and was very comfortable with it. But I have been in the same lake (later Date)with a buddy and I got a litttle tangeled up in some rope and cable, (Vis was worse than my solo dives) but he was on top of it before I even had figured out I may be in a slight jam.
I am not planning doing a lot of solo diving myself, But if I ever have no friends it's now an option!!!!!
This is what gives Solo Diving a bad name, in contrast I had over 100 dives under my belt took the SDI Solo course and dove with a 40 cuft Pony and all the backup equipment required by SDI for a Solo dive. I agree absolutely with the previous posts stating this DM is totaly irresponsible and Dangerous. Bottom Dweller take my advise get more expierence, training and properly equipped before you start Solo diving, oh and before I forget DO NOT DIVE WITH THE AFFORMENTIONED DM!

bottomdweller
06-18-2008, 20:25
*****Quoting David 57***** This is what gives Solo Diving a bad name, in contrast I had over 100 dives under my belt took the SDI Solo course and dove with a 40 cuft Pony and all the backup equipment required by SDI for a Solo dive. I agree absolutely with the previous posts stating this DM is totaly irresponsible and Dangerous. Bottom Dweller take my advise get more expierence, training and properly equipped before you start Solo diving, oh and before I forget DO NOT DIVE WITH THE AFFORMENTIONED DM!

Happy to say this is a foregone conclusion!!
I understand the seriousness of this sport (even if my spelling SUCKS!!!)
I am a much more informed diver just from joining this board.
I would like to thank Joe, (I may need a dive buddy & from what I read you have no friends) Larry & everyone else on this board that has in someway helped inform , or just shared their experiences with me & all on the board.

mm2002
06-18-2008, 20:27
The lake I normally dive has 2'-4' viz at this point with the rain. Almost every dive ends solo.

You might want to work on your buddy skills, unless that's part of your actual dive plan.


I'm not real experienced either, but I definitely agree with CompuDude here. If I lose sight of my buddy (usually my wife) we don't do the one minute thing. Too much can happen in a minute. We've adopted our own 10 second rule. If you can't find your buddy in 10 seconds, you surface. 10 seconds is plenty of time to look around in low vis, and if you don't see your buddy in that amount of time, you still have a chance to take care of them if something is wrong.

dive10killer
06-18-2008, 20:43
The lake I normally dive has 2'-4' viz at this point with the rain. Almost every dive ends solo.

You might want to work on your buddy skills, unless that's part of your actual dive plan.
I didn't say it was a problem.
My dive buddy and I have been diving for quit a few years together. When the water is super murky....it only takes a second to lose sight of the other. We are both prepared if separation does occur.

david_57
06-18-2008, 20:54
*****Quoting David 57***** This is what gives Solo Diving a bad name, in contrast I had over 100 dives under my belt took the SDI Solo course and dove with a 40 cuft Pony and all the backup equipment required by SDI for a Solo dive. I agree absolutely with the previous posts stating this DM is totally irresponsible and Dangerous. Bottom Dweller take my advise get more experience, training and properly equipped before you start Solo diving, oh and before I forget DO NOT DIVE WITH THE AFOREMENTIONED DM!

Happy to say this is a foregone conclusion!!
I understand the seriousness of this sport (even if my spelling SUCKS!!!)
I am a much more informed diver just from joining this board.
I would like to thank Joe, (I may need a dive buddy & from what I read you have no friends) Larry & everyone else on this board that has in someway helped inform , or just shared their experiences with me & all on the board.

Yeh I hear you bottom Dweller guess I come across as having no friends (with a face like mine its no wonder), actually I dive most of the time with my wife who is also SDI Solo trained. Up here in Canada wreck diving in the St Lawrence river there is always a 2 to 4 knot current and low vis most of the time so getting out of reach from your buddy is a possibility we have to face up to, hopefully this will not happen but if it did due to our SDI Solo training and experience we feel we have a better chance to be able to deal with an emergency on our own should this situation ever arise.

PS I like your Avatar saw a couple Eagle rays when diving in Cozumel this year an awesome sight!

in_cavediver
06-18-2008, 21:15
I'm still a newbee and I have 2 solo dives under my belt.
The "divemaster" and I went out to the lake & were supposed to meet up with another guy who didn't show. DM was not planning on diving so in I went alone. He said he would watch my bubbles & come in if needed?
I guess this means if the bubbles stop or you don't move for a long period of time?? Anyway had two great solo dives, At 50 ft it was cold and dark in the lake & you start to get lonely. I stayed around 25-35ft most of the 2 dives and was fine, I was asked before I went in and was very comfortable with it. But I have been in the same lake (later Date)with a buddy and I got a litttle tangeled up in some rope and cable, (Vis was worse than my solo dives) but he was on top of it before I even had figured out I may be in a slight jam.
I am not planning doing a lot of solo diving myself, But if I ever have no friends it's now an option!!!!!

So much angst to the DM. All he did was give the option to dive to a certified diver and say he'd help if need be. If its like some quarries around me, a DM is required to be on the beach when divers are in the water to do accounting and waivors. Sign in, pay, sign waivor - dive - sign out anf go. Nothing more.

Honestly, this seems reasonable to me for what the DM did. Its the DIVERS responsibility to form a risk analysis and do the go no go choice. I think the poster above made a poor choice even though he got away with it.

Of course, if the DM was doing anything in a supervisory role where there was some duty of care assumed, then you can begin questioning it and rightly so. Around my parts though, the waivors are pretty clear on the duty of care and diver responsibility and its all on the diver, not the DM.

david_57
06-18-2008, 21:44
I'm still a newbee and I have 2 solo dives under my belt.
The "divemaster" and I went out to the lake & were supposed to meet up with another guy who didn't show. DM was not planning on diving so in I went alone. He said he would watch my bubbles & come in if needed?
I guess this means if the bubbles stop or you don't move for a long period of time?? Anyway had two great solo dives, At 50 ft it was cold and dark in the lake & you start to get lonely. I stayed around 25-35ft most of the 2 dives and was fine, I was asked before I went in and was very comfortable with it. But I have been in the same lake (later Date)with a buddy and I got a litttle tangeled up in some rope and cable, (Vis was worse than my solo dives) but he was on top of it before I even had figured out I may be in a slight jam.
I am not planning doing a lot of solo diving myself, But if I ever have no friends it's now an option!!!!!

So much angst to the DM. All he did was give the option to dive to a certified diver and say he'd help if need be. If its like some quarries around me, a DM is required to be on the beach when divers are in the water to do accounting and waivors. Sign in, pay, sign waivor - dive - sign out anf go. Nothing more.

Honestly, this seems reasonable to me for what the DM did. Its the DIVERS responsibility to form a risk analysis and do the go no go choice. I think the poster above made a poor choice even though he got away with it.

Of course, if the DM was doing anything in a supervisory role where there was some duty of care assumed, then you can begin questioning it and rightly so. Around my parts though, the waivors are pretty clear on the duty of care and diver responsibility and its all on the diver, not the DM.

The Dive master and I, an in experienced Newbie being the key words here, no comparison to the situation you are describing at the quarries.

bottomdweller
06-18-2008, 21:54
I'm still a newbee and I have 2 solo dives under my belt.
The "divemaster" and I went out to the lake & were supposed to meet up with another guy who didn't show. DM was not planning on diving so in I went alone. He said he would watch my bubbles & come in if needed?
I guess this means if the bubbles stop or you don't move for a long period of time?? Anyway had two great solo dives, At 50 ft it was cold and dark in the lake & you start to get lonely. I stayed around 25-35ft most of the 2 dives and was fine, I was asked before I went in and was very comfortable with it. But I have been in the same lake (later Date)with a buddy and I got a litttle tangeled up in some rope and cable, (Vis was worse than my solo dives) but he was on top of it before I even had figured out I may be in a slight jam.
I am not planning doing a lot of solo diving myself, But if I ever have no friends it's now an option!!!!!

So much angst to the DM. All he did was give the option to dive to a certified diver and say he'd help if need be. If its like some quarries around me, a DM is required to be on the beach when divers are in the water to do accounting and waivors. Sign in, pay, sign waivor - dive - sign out anf go. Nothing more.

Honestly, this seems reasonable to me for what the DM did. Its the DIVERS responsibility to form a risk analysis and do the go no go choice. I think the poster above made a poor choice even though he got away with it.

Of course, if the DM was doing anything in a supervisory role where there was some duty of care assumed, then you can begin questioning it and rightly so. Around my parts though, the waivors are pretty clear on the duty of care and diver responsibility and its all on the diver, not the DM.


I totally agree that it was my choice should I dive or not. I was to overwhelmed at the time with diving to think a problem that may occur. (dumb on my part)
It was not until after the dive I sat back and thought of what could have happened?
I do not have the experence to be solo diving and am not planning on it anytime soon, IF Ever!!

bottomdweller
06-18-2008, 22:11
PS I like your Avatar saw a couple Eagle rays when diving in Cozumel this year an awesome sight!

That is a Picture frm Cozumel also. Beautiful creatures!!!!!

in_cavediver
06-19-2008, 05:16
I'm still a newbee and I have 2 solo dives under my belt.
The "divemaster" and I went out to the lake & were supposed to meet up with another guy who didn't show. DM was not planning on diving so in I went alone. He said he would watch my bubbles & come in if needed?
I guess this means if the bubbles stop or you don't move for a long period of time?? Anyway had two great solo dives, At 50 ft it was cold and dark in the lake & you start to get lonely. I stayed around 25-35ft most of the 2 dives and was fine, I was asked before I went in and was very comfortable with it. But I have been in the same lake (later Date)with a buddy and I got a litttle tangeled up in some rope and cable, (Vis was worse than my solo dives) but he was on top of it before I even had figured out I may be in a slight jam.
I am not planning doing a lot of solo diving myself, But if I ever have no friends it's now an option!!!!!

So much angst to the DM. All he did was give the option to dive to a certified diver and say he'd help if need be. If its like some quarries around me, a DM is required to be on the beach when divers are in the water to do accounting and waivors. Sign in, pay, sign waivor - dive - sign out anf go. Nothing more.

Honestly, this seems reasonable to me for what the DM did. Its the DIVERS responsibility to form a risk analysis and do the go no go choice. I think the poster above made a poor choice even though he got away with it.

Of course, if the DM was doing anything in a supervisory role where there was some duty of care assumed, then you can begin questioning it and rightly so. Around my parts though, the waivors are pretty clear on the duty of care and diver responsibility and its all on the diver, not the DM.

The Dive master and I, an in experienced Newbie being the key words here, no comparison to the situation you are describing at the quarries.

See I disagree. I expect an OW certed diver, on their first dive post certification, to be able to decide if they ought to do a dive. If you can't have that expectation, that cert is meaningless. Its admitting that an OW diver can't dive without supervision.

mm2002
06-19-2008, 09:39
I totally agree that it was my choice should I dive or not. I was to overwhelmed at the time with diving to think a problem that may occur. (dumb on my part)
It was not until after the dive I sat back and thought of what could have happened?
I do not have the experence to be solo diving and am not planning on it anytime soon, IF Ever!!


I don't know about all the "blame the DM" stuff, but it sounds like you learned from the experience, so that's a good thing. I've made a few mistakes, and learned from them, and that's the important part.

david_57
06-19-2008, 09:46
I'm still a newbee and I have 2 solo dives under my belt.
The "divemaster" and I went out to the lake & were supposed to meet up with another guy who didn't show. DM was not planning on diving so in I went alone. He said he would watch my bubbles & come in if needed?
I guess this means if the bubbles stop or you don't move for a long period of time?? Anyway had two great solo dives, At 50 ft it was cold and dark in the lake & you start to get lonely. I stayed around 25-35ft most of the 2 dives and was fine, I was asked before I went in and was very comfortable with it. But I have been in the same lake (later Date)with a buddy and I got a litttle tangeled up in some rope and cable, (Vis was worse than my solo dives) but he was on top of it before I even had figured out I may be in a slight jam.
I am not planning doing a lot of solo diving myself, But if I ever have no friends it's now an option!!!!!

So much angst to the DM. All he did was give the option to dive to a certified diver and say he'd help if need be. If its like some quarries around me, a DM is required to be on the beach when divers are in the water to do accounting and waivors. Sign in, pay, sign waivor - dive - sign out anf go. Nothing more.

Honestly, this seems reasonable to me for what the DM did. Its the DIVERS responsibility to form a risk analysis and do the go no go choice. I think the poster above made a poor choice even though he got away with it.

Of course, if the DM was doing anything in a supervisory role where there was some duty of care assumed, then you can begin questioning it and rightly so. Around my parts though, the waivors are pretty clear on the duty of care and diver responsibility and its all on the diver, not the DM.

The Dive master and I, an in experienced Newbie being the key words here, no comparison to the situation you are describing at the quarries.

See I disagree. I expect an OW certed diver, on their first dive post certification, to be able to decide if they ought to do a dive. If you can't have that expectation, that cert is meaningless. Its admitting that an OW diver can't dive without supervision.

If I see new OW diver I am with doing something that could risk his life I have a hard time to stand by and think to myself well he's certified that's his choice especially if I am trained as a DM and used to supervising students. Also the statement I will watch your bubbles blah blah gives the new diver a false sense of security as you know that is a rediculous.

I am worried that if dive accidents continue to increase we will end up like Quebec in Canada big brother the government stepped in and decided to regulate the sport now you are required to have thier cert to dive in Quebec (FQAS card) this has just about destroyed the diving industry within a 100 miles of the Ontario border as everyone says screw it I will use my PADI, TDI, SDI, etc, cert and dive in Ontario, due to the added cost amongst other things for the FQAS Card. So to avoid this my feeling is if you can use your diving expierence to give a new certified diver a little bit of advice on safety and maybe save another dive accident why not.

cmburch
06-19-2008, 10:24
There have been quite a few solo diver deaths recently. Especially over 45 years old. Could something have been done if they had a buddy? Maybe not if it was a heart attack in poor visibility conditions. Some may have been helped if a buddy was right there. I dive solo more often than with a buddy the last few years.

Where and when, backup statement with facts please as this could be mis-leading especially the statement over 45! Have seen some reports of Scuba Dive deaths but none due to Solo Diving/Age.

I was under the impression Scuba Dive accidents (buddy system included) were up slightly as the sport is becoming more popular.

David,
Welcome to ST!
I hope your wife did not read this or you just hit 45. I did not mean to imply that SCUBA deaths were due to Solo Diving/Age. I meant to say that there have been quite a few past middle age males, that were solo diving (Free & SCUBA), about 2007-2008, California and other coastal states, that are now deceased. I guess I could list them as I come across them, but that seems somewhat morose. You may be interested to Google California/Florida diver deaths. Or check, SCUBABoard/SpearBoard California/Florida sections.

Salinas Diver died at Breakwater - ScubaBoard - Scuba Diving Forums (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/norcal/238173-salinas-diver-died-breakwater.html)

Rest in Peace Greg.
Condolences to Family and Friends.

in_cavediver
06-19-2008, 17:42
I'm still a newbee and I have 2 solo dives under my belt.
The "divemaster" and I went out to the lake & were supposed to meet up with another guy who didn't show. DM was not planning on diving so in I went alone. He said he would watch my bubbles & come in if needed?
I guess this means if the bubbles stop or you don't move for a long period of time?? Anyway had two great solo dives, At 50 ft it was cold and dark in the lake & you start to get lonely. I stayed around 25-35ft most of the 2 dives and was fine, I was asked before I went in and was very comfortable with it. But I have been in the same lake (later Date)with a buddy and I got a litttle tangeled up in some rope and cable, (Vis was worse than my solo dives) but he was on top of it before I even had figured out I may be in a slight jam.
I am not planning doing a lot of solo diving myself, But if I ever have no friends it's now an option!!!!!

So much angst to the DM. All he did was give the option to dive to a certified diver and say he'd help if need be. If its like some quarries around me, a DM is required to be on the beach when divers are in the water to do accounting and waivors. Sign in, pay, sign waivor - dive - sign out anf go. Nothing more.

Honestly, this seems reasonable to me for what the DM did. Its the DIVERS responsibility to form a risk analysis and do the go no go choice. I think the poster above made a poor choice even though he got away with it.

Of course, if the DM was doing anything in a supervisory role where there was some duty of care assumed, then you can begin questioning it and rightly so. Around my parts though, the waivors are pretty clear on the duty of care and diver responsibility and its all on the diver, not the DM.

The Dive master and I, an in experienced Newbie being the key words here, no comparison to the situation you are describing at the quarries.

See I disagree. I expect an OW certed diver, on their first dive post certification, to be able to decide if they ought to do a dive. If you can't have that expectation, that cert is meaningless. Its admitting that an OW diver can't dive without supervision.

If I see new OW diver I am with doing something that could risk his life I have a hard time to stand by and think to myself well he's certified that's his choice especially if I am trained as a DM and used to supervising students. Also the statement I will watch your bubbles blah blah gives the new diver a false sense of security as you know that is a rediculous.

I am worried that if dive accidents continue to increase we will end up like Quebec in Canada big brother the government stepped in and decided to regulate the sport now you are required to have thier cert to dive in Quebec (FQAS card) this has just about destroyed the diving industry within a 100 miles of the Ontario border as everyone says screw it I will use my PADI, TDI, SDI, etc, cert and dive in Ontario, due to the added cost amongst other things for the FQAS Card. So to avoid this my feeling is if you can use your diving expierence to give a new certified diver a little bit of advice on safety and maybe save another dive accident why not.

I see this side and I'd likely advise the diver against the dive (as would most everyone here) but I would leave it up to them. They need to make the call.

Far too many divers out there look to someone else to keep them safe. THAT attitude will kill this sport. Divers need to think for themselves and be able to identify bad advice, irregardless of the qualifications of the source.

david_57
06-19-2008, 17:49
I'm still a newbee and I have 2 solo dives under my belt.
The "divemaster" and I went out to the lake & were supposed to meet up with another guy who didn't show. DM was not planning on diving so in I went alone. He said he would watch my bubbles & come in if needed?
I guess this means if the bubbles stop or you don't move for a long period of time?? Anyway had two great solo dives, At 50 ft it was cold and dark in the lake & you start to get lonely. I stayed around 25-35ft most of the 2 dives and was fine, I was asked before I went in and was very comfortable with it. But I have been in the same lake (later Date)with a buddy and I got a litttle tangeled up in some rope and cable, (Vis was worse than my solo dives) but he was on top of it before I even had figured out I may be in a slight jam.
I am not planning doing a lot of solo diving myself, But if I ever have no friends it's now an option!!!!!

So much angst to the DM. All he did was give the option to dive to a certified diver and say he'd help if need be. If its like some quarries around me, a DM is required to be on the beach when divers are in the water to do accounting and waivors. Sign in, pay, sign waivor - dive - sign out anf go. Nothing more.

Honestly, this seems reasonable to me for what the DM did. Its the DIVERS responsibility to form a risk analysis and do the go no go choice. I think the poster above made a poor choice even though he got away with it.

Of course, if the DM was doing anything in a supervisory role where there was some duty of care assumed, then you can begin questioning it and rightly so. Around my parts though, the waivors are pretty clear on the duty of care and diver responsibility and its all on the diver, not the DM.

The Dive master and I, an in experienced Newbie being the key words here, no comparison to the situation you are describing at the quarries.

See I disagree. I expect an OW certed diver, on their first dive post certification, to be able to decide if they ought to do a dive. If you can't have that expectation, that cert is meaningless. Its admitting that an OW diver can't dive without supervision.

If I see new OW diver I am with doing something that could risk his life I have a hard time to stand by and think to myself well he's certified that's his choice especially if I am trained as a DM and used to supervising students. Also the statement I will watch your bubbles blah blah gives the new diver a false sense of security as you know that is a rediculous.

I am worried that if dive accidents continue to increase we will end up like Quebec in Canada big brother the government stepped in and decided to regulate the sport now you are required to have thier cert to dive in Quebec (FQAS card) this has just about destroyed the diving industry within a 100 miles of the Ontario border as everyone says screw it I will use my PADI, TDI, SDI, etc, cert and dive in Ontario, due to the added cost amongst other things for the FQAS Card. So to avoid this my feeling is if you can use your diving expierence to give a new certified diver a little bit of advice on safety and maybe save another dive accident why not.

I see this side and I'd likely advise the diver against the dive (as would most everyone here) but I would leave it up to them. They need to make the call.

Far too many divers out there look to someone else to keep them safe. THAT attitude will kill this sport. Divers need to think for themselves and be able to identify bad advice, irregardless of the qualifications of the source.

Agreed if they decided to dive after hearing advice and reasons, then yes thats up to them at least they have made an informed decision, I can feel that I did not just stand by and watch.

mm2002
06-19-2008, 18:54
Can we start over with ONE question, and ONE answer?
This multi quote crap is really getting on my head. Or maybe I need to buy a bigger monitor. :smiley36:

in_cavediver
06-19-2008, 18:56
It depends on the situation. As described by the original poster it seems that the Master Diver was negligent.

Honestly, I try not to read to much into that simply because its what the diver remembered. It may or may not be representitive of what actually happened. Every story has two sides and every individual remembers and interprets what they hear differently. Its quite possible that the diver in question misunderstood what was said.

I say this with no malice or accustation but as an observation.

In the end though, that diver chose to make that dive and that is what is of consequence.

longtailbda
06-19-2008, 19:46
It depends on your experience and the type of diving your doing.

bottomdweller
06-19-2008, 21:50
It depends on the situation. As described by the original poster it seems that the Master Diver was negligent.

Honestly, I try not to read to much into that simply because its what the diver remembered. It may or may not be representitive of what actually happened. Every story has two sides and every individual remembers and interprets what they hear differently. Its quite possible that the diver in question misunderstood what was said.

I say this with no malice or accustation but as an observation.

In the end though, that diver chose to make that dive and that is what is of consequence.

First off thanks for calling me a LIAR!:smiley20: I REMEMBER IT MORE CLEARLY THAN ANYTHING I HAVE REMEMBERED IN MY LIFE & IT IS NOT EVEN A TINY BIT POSSIBLE I MISUNDERSTOOD FOR 1 SECOND!!! IT WAS JUST HIM & I SIITING FACE TO FACE ON THE BOAT!!! I know what was said!
Sorry don't mean to Bi*ch to much. I went, I am glad I did. I'm still here and I think out & plan my dives much more carefully, just don't like to be questioned about making crap up, not understanding english, or just being plain stupid!

OK I admit I said diving that day was dumb on my part so I don't need all the you are stupid replies
Just saying what I said is exactly what happened. Sept/2/2007 (didn't have to get out the dive log to check the date):smiley2:

in_cavediver
06-20-2008, 05:18
It depends on the situation. As described by the original poster it seems that the Master Diver was negligent.

Honestly, I try not to read to much into that simply because its what the diver remembered. It may or may not be representitive of what actually happened. Every story has two sides and every individual remembers and interprets what they hear differently. Its quite possible that the diver in question misunderstood what was said.

I say this with no malice or accustation but as an observation.

In the end though, that diver chose to make that dive and that is what is of consequence.

First off thanks for calling me a LIAR!:smiley20: I REMEMBER IT MORE CLEARLY THAN ANYTHING I HAVE REMEMBERED IN MY LIFE & IT IS NOT EVEN A TINY BIT POSSIBLE I MISUNDERSTOOD FOR 1 SECOND!!! IT WAS JUST HIM & I SIITING FACE TO FACE ON THE BOAT!!! I know what was said!
Sorry don't mean to Bi*ch to much. I went, I am glad I did. I'm still here and I think out & plan my dives much more carefully, just don't like to be questioned about making crap up, not understanding english, or just being plain stupid!

OK I admit I said diving that day was dumb on my part so I don't need all the you are stupid replies
Just saying what I said is exactly what happened. Sept/2/2007 (didn't have to get out the dive log to check the date):smiley2:

Please re-read what I said. There is no personal attacks in there at all. I merely pointed out that it is what you remember as you remember it and understand what was said. We don't have what the DM remembers as he remembers it. We just have one side of the conversation.

Also, don't feel too bad - I'd have done the dives too. (and would tomorrow if faced with that situation)

david_57
06-20-2008, 13:33
Hey Bottom Dweller I have no doubt you what you said is exactly what happened, and great that you learnt form the experience and now know better. I was more amazed as you are a fairly new diver the DM who was with you chose to go out with you but not dive and let you go down on your own. Having said that we have all done some risky things when new to diving then thaught about it after and realised how dangerous it could have been me included, I do not mean to sound condesending I have seen and heard of a couple of serious accidents one a fatality due to failure to observe established safe practices when diving, Live long and enjoy the sport!

Hey Barracuda sorry for the multi quote crap

bottomdweller
06-23-2008, 22:12
First off this time!! It's all good, And I do understand no personal attacks!!!!
(really just wanted to yell a little at time) & this was the closest to a reason to do so since I have been on this board. not that it was real reason.
Second mm2002 Sorry about the quotes & I was starting to get a bit dizzy also. But you!!much like me, may need a bigger monitor & glasses.

To all.
First dive's after certified! #s 7 & 8 guess he thought I was a great diver.
(P.S Yes I would do it again)

marchand
08-25-2008, 00:29
There are a lot of people around here that solo dive on a regular basis. Most of the time it is because they don't have a regular dive buddy or they simply like diving alone. Some of the time it is because it is a really risky dive and its easier to pull one body out of the cave than two.

cmburch
08-25-2008, 01:47
Woke up an old post.
If a body needs to be pulled out of a cave, I guess it needs some type of support team to do the retrieving. So this situation may be a team supported solo dive.

beperkins
10-17-2008, 12:16
I am very interested in solo diving but will many dive ops let you? Even with the certification?

MSilvia
10-17-2008, 13:04
It depends where you go. Around here, most ops are okay with it regardless of whether or not you have a card for it. Other places I've been, it's taboo.

brandon
10-17-2008, 22:34
Possibly fatal, plan accordingly.

-B.

namabiru
10-17-2008, 23:32
Mmm...

Yesterday, at OCR, in 2-3 meter vis, there were two looney tunes packing spear guns. (our locals don't always think things completely through...) Hey... instead of that beautiful hamour which I'll miss watching, why not shoot your buddy Dick Cheney-style? I got the hell out of there and away from the beach before the inevitable happened...

Mmm...You definitely should be cutting that fishing line with your machete, aiming your blade toward your buddy's leg.

Hey! Let's try swimming into the containers to see what's in there...

Yes, please do hold garbage in your hand to see if the angelfish will eat it, instead of taking a banana or some day-old Arabic bread that you got 5 pieces for a riyal (25 US cents) at Carrefour.

These are the divers I encounter at the beach every weekend. If someone from my dive club doesn't happen to be on the beach when I roll up, or I didn't make formal plans to dive with one of my regular buddies, I go alone. I'm considerably safer, and don't have to be in touching distance of these behaviours.

cmburch
10-18-2008, 00:20
The visibility sounds like conditions many times on the Northern California coast when freediving for abalone, or spearfishing while on SCUBA. It is always best to be with a buddy in low vis conditions and when hunting or gathering. I am sure there are hunting accidents. I have never seen any though. I do hunt alone, but it is definitely not safe. If I get injured (rocks, reef, surf, kelp, marine life, etc.) or have a medical problem, I must depend on myself to get my butt back to shore. If I pass out while freediving, even with a buddy due to the bad visibility, there is little chance of survival. Just have good insurance and all affairs in order. Do not want friends and family having to arrange/pay funeral or cleaning the junk out of the home. Plan for the worst case scenario.

I have gone solo off dive boats in California.

Hatteraskman
10-18-2008, 04:08
I'm a little unclear how you can help your wife or vice-versa if one of you surfaces and the other is entangled out of sight, especially at depths over say 40-50 ft. [are you omitting a safety stop each time?] Better some sort of tug line in extremely low vis situations, with agreed upon tug signals to take the place of hand signs. And if you guys are relative newbies, aside from certification credit, what kind of diving are you doing for fun in those conditions anyway? Your strategy of a quick surface to buddy check might work in relatively shallow water, but has risks in deeper water, especially if you aren't diving with enriched air [Nitrox]. Just a thought...

cmburch
10-18-2008, 07:56
In low Vis or bad current conditions it may be better to hold hands. I do not like doing this with weak swimming males. The wives may love this, but it puts a cramp in any spearfishing activities. I have a reel and a popper float. I have never thought about entanglement on the bottom while on SCUBA. I guess the popper float could be used as a signaling device when tied to my speargun reel.

We frequent Carmel. We have aborted low Vis dives. We have also dove and said we should have never gone in.

Dark Wolf
10-26-2008, 21:29
I don't know about where you are, but around here low vis is a fact of life. Sometimes it is more hazardous to dive with a buddy, especially when hunting. We have made the dive many times when vis was less than 1 foot. Should we have called the dive? No. But it depends on each person and experience levels. But saying it is not safe is not exactly right, either. It all depends on the diver and his comfort levels. What may be comfortable for you may be much different for other people. cmburch, if you do not really condone solo diving, then I wonder why you are posting in a solo divers forum. Many of us dive and hunt solo and have been very safe about it. Safe is a matter of definition, and most of us treat it this way. I personally would rather dive solo than with an insta-buddy. But maybe that is just me.

DW

pir8
10-26-2008, 21:36
How dangerous is it to cross the street?

cmburch
10-27-2008, 00:50
I don't know about where you are, but around here low vis is a fact of life. Sometimes it is more hazardous to dive with a buddy, especially when hunting. We have made the dive many times when vis was less than 1 foot. Should we have called the dive? No. But it depends on each person and experience levels. But saying it is not safe is not exactly right, either. It all depends on the diver and his comfort levels. What may be comfortable for you may be much different for other people. cmburch, if you do not really condone solo diving, then I wonder why you are posting in a solo divers forum. Many of us dive and hunt solo and have been very safe about it. Safe is a matter of definition, and most of us treat it this way. I personally would rather dive solo than with an insta-buddy. But maybe that is just me.

DW
Read the thread. I am in Northern California. Pacific Ocean.

I have never said that I do not condone solo diving. In fact, I dive solo. I am a forum member who dives solo and I am posting my experience to this section. So wonder away. I gave my reasons specifically why it was not necessarily safe when "I" dive solo. Read the thread.

More hazardous with a buddy or to hunt with a buddy? A situation I have never had when hunting or diving in the Pacific Ocean. I have pulled buddies out of kelp, bad currents, and other tight spots. I have experience in hunting solo, and with one or multiple buddies. I am not a creative writer posting to this forum without experience.

Hunting, diving with a buddy, or solo in less than 1' Vis? A good dive? Safe? Looking or feeling for the sea life? Going to catch some fish, abalone, crab, lobster in 1 foot vis? Not in the Pacific Ocean.

I have never heard of an insta-buddy until this board. I dove with a Spearo yesterday for the first time in Sonoma. Check out Sonoma Abalone Diving on SpearBoard California section. Check my name for links and pictures of where we hunt.
Sonoma Abalone Diving - Spearboard Spearfishing Community (http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=72217)

Solo diving should be done safely. Posting unsafe practices where a new diver may think it is actually done is unacceptable. Comfort levels? I solo dive the rugged, and somewhat rough and unpredictable Northern California coast for fish, crabs and abalone. Check out SpearBoard California section. Your avatar has great visibility and your use of "we" when discussing low 1' vis is questionable. Any pics to prove you are a low vis solo hunter? It looks like a TROLL following a post to be argumentative.

Merrimorte
11-01-2008, 19:11
I don't know about where you are, but around here low vis is a fact of life... We have made the dive many times when vis was less than 1 foot. Should we have called the dive? No. But it depends on each person and experience levels. But saying it is not safe is not exactly right, either. It all depends on the diver and his comfort levels. What may be comfortable for you may be much different for other people....

DW
Read the thread. I am in Northern California. Pacific Ocean.

I have never said that I do not condone solo diving. In fact, I dive solo. I am a forum member who dives solo and I am posting my experience to this section. So wonder away. I gave my reasons specifically why it was not necessarily safe when "I" dive solo. Read the thread.

More hazardous with a buddy or to hunt with a buddy? A situation I have never had when hunting or diving in the Pacific Ocean. I have pulled buddies out of kelp, bad currents, and other tight spots. I have experience in hunting solo, and with one or multiple buddies. I am not a creative writer posting to this forum without experience.

Hunting, diving with a buddy, or solo in less than 1' Vis? A good dive? Safe? Looking or feeling for the sea life? Going to catch some fish, abalone, crab, lobster in 1 foot vis? Not in the Pacific Ocean.

I have never heard of an insta-buddy until this board. I dove with a Spearo yesterday for the first time in Sonoma. Check out Sonoma Abalone Diving on SpearBoard California section. Check my name for links and pictures of where we hunt.
Sonoma Abalone Diving - Spearboard Spearfishing Community (http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=72217)

Solo diving should be done safely. Posting unsafe practices where a new diver may think it is actually done is unacceptable. Comfort levels? I solo dive the rugged, and somewhat rough and unpredictable Northern California coast for fish, crabs and abalone. Check out SpearBoard California section. Your avatar has great visibility and your use of "we" when discussing low 1' vis is questionable. Any pics to prove you are a low vis solo hunter? It looks like a TROLL following a post to be argumentative.


I can attest that DW is NOT a troll nor are any of his friends (many on here btw) that dive with him. Yeah solo in low viz, they do it... and so be it! A few things I have quoted from his post YOU may want to reveiw. Er something about maybe not safe for all.... Diving within your own personal comfort level... Some people have no choice but to dive in lower viz situations... Not all of us are in areas of crystal clear sparkling waters. My normal dive spot generally has between 5 and 10 ft viz... IF I am lucky! Most of what i see in the water is murk, a few fish and a sunken cabin cruiser. Why dive it? Cuz I friggen can! Diving in less than perfect conditions WITH or WITHOUT a buddy has one wonderful side effect... makes you a better diver. ie: if you can dive in the crap WE have, you can pretty well dive anywhere...

Btw, I am pretty sure DW HAS read your post.

cmburch
11-01-2008, 20:28
I don't know about where you are, but around here low vis is a fact of life... We have made the dive many times when vis was less than 1 foot. Should we have called the dive? No. But it depends on each person and experience levels. But saying it is not safe is not exactly right, either. It all depends on the diver and his comfort levels. What may be comfortable for you may be much different for other people....

DW
Read the thread. I am in Northern California. Pacific Ocean.

I have never said that I do not condone solo diving. In fact, I dive solo. I am a forum member who dives solo and I am posting my experience to this section. So wonder away. I gave my reasons specifically why it was not necessarily safe when "I" dive solo. Read the thread.

More hazardous with a buddy or to hunt with a buddy? A situation I have never had when hunting or diving in the Pacific Ocean. I have pulled buddies out of kelp, bad currents, and other tight spots. I have experience in hunting solo, and with one or multiple buddies. I am not a creative writer posting to this forum without experience.

Hunting, diving with a buddy, or solo in less than 1' Vis? A good dive? Safe? Looking or feeling for the sea life? Going to catch some fish, abalone, crab, lobster in 1 foot vis? Not in the Pacific Ocean.

I have never heard of an insta-buddy until this board. I dove with a Spearo yesterday for the first time in Sonoma. Check out Sonoma Abalone Diving on SpearBoard California section. Check my name for links and pictures of where we hunt.
Sonoma Abalone Diving - Spearboard Spearfishing Community (http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=72217)

Solo diving should be done safely. Posting unsafe practices where a new diver may think it is actually done is unacceptable. Comfort levels? I solo dive the rugged, and somewhat rough and unpredictable Northern California coast for fish, crabs and abalone. Check out SpearBoard California section. Your avatar has great visibility and your use of "we" when discussing low 1' vis is questionable. Any pics to prove you are a low vis solo hunter? It looks like a TROLL following a post to be argumentative.


I can attest that DW is NOT a troll nor are any of his friends (many on here btw) that dive with him. Yeah solo in low viz, they do it... and so be it! A few things I have quoted from his post YOU may want to reveiw. Er something about maybe not safe for all.... Diving within your own personal comfort level... Some people have no choice but to dive in lower viz situations... Not all of us are in areas of crystal clear sparkling waters. My normal dive spot generally has between 5 and 10 ft viz... IF I am lucky! Most of what i see in the water is murk, a few fish and a sunken cabin cruiser. Why dive it? Cuz I friggen can! Diving in less than perfect conditions WITH or WITHOUT a buddy has one wonderful side effect... makes you a better diver. ie: if you can dive in the crap WE have, you can pretty well dive anywhere...

Btw, I am pretty sure DW HAS read your post.

It does not say that Dark Wolf is a troll. It says, "It looks like a TROLL following a post to be argumentative" referring to the post. Solo or with a buddy in less than 1' vis? What's to review? Now you are saying pretty good conditions at 5-10'. We have the same murky vis at times less than 3' open ocean freediving diving for abalone and spearfishing and SCUBA diving. 3' is not spearfishing vis, but may be abalone gathering vis. People die each year (Sonoma and Mendocino Counties) where we dive solo and with buddies.

We choose to dive in the Pacific Ocean with these conditions. It is not just talk on a forum. We post our catch.

Link to current vis and conditions:
Salt Point Park Ocean Conditions Home Page (http://www.saltpointoceanconditions.com/)

BTW I am pretty sure that over 100 forum members and guests have seen this thread the past few days.

Ever in NorCal feel free to PM.

IMO. It may not be safe to dive the North Coast for abalone or kelp diving and spearfishing with the limited experience under the conditions you mentioned. IMO.

mm2002
11-01-2008, 20:34
Kinda silly to get bent out of shape over anything that's been posted here. remember, diving is fun! :smiley2:

cmburch
11-01-2008, 20:48
You're right Mark. I thought it a little unrealistic - not safe and my name was included.

mm2002
11-01-2008, 20:50
Your right Mark. I thought it a little unrealistic - not safe and my name was included.

Hey, it's all good bro. I know how these things can escalate. Hell, I know that I dive solo sometimes in pretty crappy vis, but there are too many variables involved for anyone to say what's safe one way or another. The bottom line is, generally it's not the safest environment to be in. I'll leave it at that.

Grin
11-02-2008, 07:09
It appears we have opinions from cave divers, open water divers, beach divers, bad vis divers, vaction divers, spearfisherman, wreck divers, cattle boat divers, cold water divers and tropical water divers, experienced divers and new divers.
Everyone seems to look within their little dive world when they answer these questions.
The best thing about diving is you are the one who controls how dangerous everything you do is. And solo diving just removes any possibility of someone trying to save you from yourself.

mm2002
11-02-2008, 08:36
The best thing about diving is you are the one who controls how dangerous everything you do is. And solo diving just removes any possibility of someone trying to save you from yourself.

Agree 100%!

shawnwill36
11-02-2008, 21:28
its not safe but diving alone isnt that much fun either.

Dark Wolf
11-02-2008, 22:00
Well, I did read the thread. Read the whole thing before posting, and was just giving my point of view. And no, I don't have pics of me solo hunting in low vis. It is hard to take my own picture while hunting, and with low vis you don't really see much anyway. With that I will bow out and move on to another thread since I am obviously un-qualified to give an opinion here.

Merri, thanks for your post.

DW

Dark Wolf
11-02-2008, 22:15
Yes Grin, I agree with you completely! Well said.

DW

cmburch
11-02-2008, 22:23
Actually it is fun diving alone at times. Just getting in the water. Did anyone take a look at the Sonoma pics? There were at least 5 solo divers that morning and one of my pics you can see one swimming out (He looks like a sea otter). I will try taking some pics of Dungeness Crabs and Red Abalone underwater in Mendocino next week. I am trying to strap the camera to my gun with mini tripod from REI, but it slips. Need some silicon or rubber pieces.

I did not say anything about being unqualified. Everyone has something to offer. Maybe I misinterpreted your post. If cmburch was not included, I would have not responded. Peace Dark Wolf. If ever in NorCal feel free to PM on SpearBoard.

texdiveguy
11-02-2008, 22:24
" How Dangerous is solo diving?"

Only as dangerous as the 'solo' diver makes it.

Merrimorte
11-07-2008, 06:46
Well, I did read the thread. Read the whole thing before posting, and was just giving my point of view. And no, I don't have pics of me solo hunting in low vis. It is hard to take my own picture while hunting, and with low vis you don't really see much anyway. With that I will bow out and move on to another thread since I am obviously un-qualified to give an opinion here.

Merri, thanks for your post.

DW

np and I am thinking the same.

cmburch
11-08-2008, 18:07
It does not seem that a diver has too much control of all of the variables to say it is only as safe as he makes it. The natural environment, rouge waves, currents, tides, cliffs, boulders, reefs, tunnels, plants, sealife, diver's medical conditions, etc.

Diving within one's capabilities is important. How many open water divers are weak swimmers and not use to the ocean.

It would seem that cave training would be best towards getting a good handle on skills which could also be used for solo.

I hear a lot about redundancy. For the recreational openwater diver, I think it is better to be able to get yourself back to the boat or shore with what you got. My redundancy is only a larger second speargun when hunting, a second Ab iron when abalone diving, a second flashlight when night diving, and my Octo when on SCUBA.

I carry a dye marker, signal mirror, spearfishing popper float that can be used as a lift bag or SMB, flashlight and reel on my speargun, whistle, a credit card in an otter box, and a knife. I have an otter box with a marine transceiver on my kayak or inflatable. I sometimes carry my cell phone on the boat in Monterey Bay or near San Francisco Bay.

I will probably add a first aid kit to my kayak/inflatable gear which already includes food and water for lunch.

James1010
11-08-2008, 20:57
My advice.. Do not go solo diving, period. Always have a buddy with you at all times. The only time I would ever dive alone is in a shallow pool to test some gear and even while doing that have someone there watching you. There are to many risks involved in going diving alone. It's not about testing out in ten feet then moving deeper and deeper. It's about using the buddy system in case of an emergency.

fire diver
11-09-2008, 02:39
My advice.. Do not go solo diving, period. Always have a buddy with you at all times. The only time I would ever dive alone is in a shallow pool to test some gear and even while doing that have someone there watching you. There are to many risks involved in going diving alone. It's not about testing out in ten feet then moving deeper and deeper. It's about using the buddy system in case of an emergency.


So I'm curious, exactly what emergencies can your buddy save you from than you can't save yourself?

ianr33
11-09-2008, 07:39
My advice.. Do not go solo diving, period. Always have a buddy with you at all times. The only time I would ever dive alone is in a shallow pool to test some gear and even while doing that have someone there watching you. There are to many risks involved in going diving alone. It's not about testing out in ten feet then moving deeper and deeper. It's about using the buddy system in case of an emergency.

Any chance you could fill out your profile so we can judge where you are coming from with this reply?

So far I have found solo diving to be 100% safe ......................

in_cavediver
11-09-2008, 08:55
So far I have found solo diving to be 100% safe ......................

It will be until that one time......

Seriously, solo diving is just another form of diving. I personally consider more in the tec realm than rec due to the planning I think should be done.

Is it safe? Nope. Is diving safe? Nope. Both have risks that need mitigated. Solo diving can be safer than buddy diving. It can also be more dangerous.

For the record - I don't normally solo dive. I have my wife to dive with. That said, I would have no problems or reservations doing a solo cave dive with deco.

emcbride81
11-09-2008, 09:22
I agree with a buddy to help with the wetsuit zipper...I can't dive cold water without a buddy, my friggin 7 mil is bear to get zipped all the way!

cmburch
11-09-2008, 09:28
Buddy versus Lonely Guy
To help increase chance of survival.
Some instances when a buddy may be able to help over being a lonely guy:
Shark attack
Medical problem
Heart attack
Stroke
Blackout
Entanglement
Stuck somewhere
Currents
Disorientation
Fog changing conditions
Unsafe exit points due to changing conditions
Injury such as a broken bone
Injury such as bleeding badly
Fallen down and can't get up with no life alert
Unable to drive self to emergency services

Ever see ambulances or helicopters at the dive site?:smiley11:

Maybe California and Florida are more crowded with more divers so more accidents and deaths.

Most important:
Remembering to bring lunch and giving a hand with weight belt and a hand with the hard to reach zipper.:smiley20:

DON
11-09-2008, 10:10
The term "solo diving" needs to be defined here, I believe it means different things to those of us who live on or near a coast and those who do not. I boat dive a lot in So Cal, I jump into the water without a buddy is this consider Solo diving , even though there are 18+ other divers in to same area? I abalone dive No Cal with friends we go into the water and go our separate ways, do we consider this Solo diving?

Is Solo diving driving to a lake, river etc. by ones self considered Solo diving? This discussion needs a to be broken down by area ( ocean vs fresh), and defined such that we all have an understanding of the term Solo diving

fire diver
11-09-2008, 13:16
Buddy versus Lonely Guy
To help increase chance of survival.
Some instances when a buddy may be able to help over being a lonely guy:
Shark attack = only if you can stab your buddy before he stabs you.
Medical problem
Heart attack = you're screwed anyway
Stroke = see heart attack
Blackout = see heart attack
Entanglement = what, you don't carry cutting tools?
Stuck somewhere = How exactly am I getting stuck? This makes no sense to me
Currents = Buddy is screwed in the current just like you. 2 death!
Disorientation = Again I fail to see how that happens. or how it affects my ability to surface
Fog changing conditions = Oh come on, now your just getting silly
Unsafe exit points due to changing conditions = ok, so now 2 people are in danger instead of one.
Injury such as a broken bone. = Where, underwater?!
Injury such as bleeding badly = see heart attack and/or shark attack
Fallen down and can't get up with no life alert = crawl back into your Hover-Round granny!
Unable to drive self to emergency services = see heart attack (but this is the only one with a possibility of relevance)

Ever see ambulances or helicopters at the dive site?:smiley11:
Yep, I have. Stupid drunk boaters

Maybe California and Florida are more crowded with more divers so more accidents and deaths.

Most important:
Remembering to bring lunch and giving a hand with weight belt and a hand with the hard to reach zipper.:smiley20:

My replies in red

fire diver
11-09-2008, 13:19
The term "solo diving" needs to be defined here, I believe it means different things to those of us who live on or near a coast and those who do not. I boat dive a lot in So Cal, I jump into the water without a buddy is this consider Solo diving , even though there are 18+ other divers in to same area? I abalone dive No Cal with friends we go into the water and go our separate ways, do we consider this Solo diving?

Is Solo diving driving to a lake, river etc. by ones self considered Solo diving? This discussion needs a to be broken down by area ( ocean vs fresh), and defined such that we all have an understanding of the term Solo diving

Solo diving is diving anywhere without the direct support of another diver, diving within one breathold of you. So yes, all of the above are solo dives.

texdiveguy
11-09-2008, 13:33
Buddy versus Lonely Guy
To help increase chance of survival.
Some instances when a buddy may be able to help over being a lonely guy:
Shark attack = only if you can stab your buddy before he stabs you.
Medical problem
Heart attack = you're screwed anyway
Stroke = see heart attack
Blackout = see heart attack
Entanglement = what, you don't carry cutting tools?
Stuck somewhere = How exactly am I getting stuck? This makes no sense to me
Currents = Buddy is screwed in the current just like you. 2 death!
Disorientation = Again I fail to see how that happens. or how it affects my ability to surface
Fog changing conditions = Oh come on, now your just getting silly
Unsafe exit points due to changing conditions = ok, so now 2 people are in danger instead of one.
Injury such as a broken bone. = Where, underwater?!
Injury such as bleeding badly = see heart attack and/or shark attack
Fallen down and can't get up with no life alert = crawl back into your Hover-Round granny!
Unable to drive self to emergency services = see heart attack (but this is the only one with a possibility of relevance)

Ever see ambulances or helicopters at the dive site?:smiley11:
Yep, I have. Stupid drunk boaters

Maybe California and Florida are more crowded with more divers so more accidents and deaths.

Most important:
Remembering to bring lunch and giving a hand with weight belt and a hand with the hard to reach zipper.:smiley20:

My replies in red

Hey you forgot Medical problem towards the top of the list. :)

texdiveguy
11-09-2008, 15:06
cm..... divers die and are injured each year for various reasons.....that fact is some of these divers are truly solo diving and some are buddy or team diving.

All diving has risks associated with it, from simple o/w shore diving at a local mud hole to deep mixed gas to overhead.

I have yet to read a dive accident report that stated the cause of injury or death was from solo diving.

Solo divers are some of the best fit and safest divers out there.....the nature of this type of diving requires one to be on his/her game each and every dive.

I started solo diving on my 13th. dip and have grown into this form of diving gradually drawing from shear experience and info. I have gained in various scuba courses. Most of my diving this year has been solo and I have enjoyed it very much!

Some divers are not comfortable with the efforts it does require to be a good solo diver.....some don't want to cross into that perceived level of risk. The fact is solo diving in its true sense is just for everyone---that's cool!

cmburch
11-09-2008, 16:51
cm..... divers die and are injured each year for various reasons.....that fact is some of these divers are truly solo diving and some are buddy or team diving.

All diving has risks associated with it, from simple o/w shore diving at a local mud hole to deep mixed gas to overhead.

I have yet to read a dive accident report that stated the cause of injury or death was from solo diving.

Solo divers are some of the best fit and safest divers out there.....the nature of this type of diving requires one to be on his/her game each and every dive.

I started solo diving on my 13th. dip and have grown into this form of diving gradually drawing from shear experience and info. I have gained in various scuba courses. Most of my diving this year has been solo and I have enjoyed it very much!

Some divers are not comfortable with the efforts it does require to be a good solo diver.....some don't want to cross into that perceived level of risk. The fact is solo diving in its true sense is just for everyone---that's cool!

TDG
You are stating the obvious. That there are inherent dangers for any diver. And about accidents or medical problems not being attributed to diving solo or with a buddy.

Making generalizations about solo divers being the best fit and safest?
Solo divers are part of the diving community. Don't fool yourself. Most are past middle age males.:) We (middle age males) still mentally picture ourselves under 30 years old with the physique of when we were in our early 20's.

I started freediving solo over 30 years ago and on SCUBA about 25 years ago.

Most of my diving the past 4 years has been solo. Why has it been solo? Because as we (males) get older we have other obligations and we can not dive at the same time or get the same time off as we once could in HS and college, or before careers and before having our own families. I also enjoy diving solo especially spearfishing. Just getting wet and getting my own fresh fish. But I would rather drive to the shore with a buddy and share a meal on the seashore with a friend or family member. I do freedive solo for Abalone, or spearfishing on SCUBA while a nondiving friend or family member waits on shore.

So it seems that some want to say that it is safer diving alone. Some do not want to hear about the possible problems that can go wrong and challenge to be argumentative rather than constructive. It is like only wanting to hear one side of a story because being afraid to look at reality. IMO

captain
11-09-2008, 17:31
A recent DAN report says that 51% of trained cave divers who died were diving solo at the time of death. So that means 49% who died were with buddies, not a great margin of difference. What it doesn't say is how many of the buddy diver deaths involved multiple deaths in the buddy team.

texdiveguy
11-09-2008, 17:49
TDG
You are stating the obvious. That there are inherent dangers for any diver. And about accidents or medical problems not being attributed to diving solo or with a buddy.

Making generalizations about solo divers being the best fit and safest?
Solo divers are part of the diving community. Don't fool yourself. Most are past middle age males.:) We (middle age males) still mentally picture ourselves under 30 years old with the physique of when we were in our early 20's.

I started freediving solo over 30 years ago and on SCUBA about 25 years ago.

Most of my diving the past 4 years has been solo. Why has it been solo? Because as we (males) get older we have other obligations and we can not dive at the same time or get the same time off as we once could in HS and college, or before careers and before having our own families. I also enjoy diving solo especially spearfishing. Just getting wet and getting my own fresh fish. But I would rather drive to the shore with a buddy and share a meal on the seashore with a friend or family member. I do freedive solo for Abalone, or spearfishing on SCUBA while a nondiving friend or family member waits on shore.

So it seems that some want to say that it is safer diving alone. Some do not want to hear about the possible problems that can go wrong and challenge to be argumentative rather than constructive. It is like only wanting to hear one side of a story because being afraid to look at reality. IMO

Like I always say when asked.....solo diving is a great way to go....safe as diving with a buddy/IMO--challenging and educational.

Being a technical diver whom takes risks that most other divers would not even consider, offers me a real perspective to divings challenges.....solo diving has made me a better technical diver---whether I am engaged in solo or team dives.

I have never nor will ever recommend solo diving to an indv., just as I don't recommend technical diving to anyone, but for those willing to step up and take on the challenges and learn to manage the risks---solo diving can and is a wonderful sport.

The unfortunate thing that has happened in general and def. in scuba is that many divers are unfit for even general diving regardless of age....recreational cert. agencies have been at the root of this problem for years. I for one have always taken the view that one must maintain a good level of health and physical conditioning for diving, and as we age this becomes more a key element to your staying safe in your diving.

My goal is to maintain an active player in solo and technical diving till I reach around 60.....then I may slow down a tad!

cmburch
11-09-2008, 19:24
Set a higher goal. I have dove with 70+ yr olds that have outfished me gotten larger Abalone and have gone deeper for longer periods. I also biked with my 80 yr old neighbor 50-100 mi trips.

cmburch
11-09-2008, 22:07
Buddy versus Lonely Guy
To help increase chance of survival.
Some instances when a buddy may be able to help over being a lonely guy:
Shark attack = only if you can stab your buddy before he stabs you.
Incorrect as many know, help to stop bleeding can save the victim's life.
Medical problem
Incorrect on all medical problems, rapid response can save a life.
Heart attack = you're screwed anyway
Stroke = see heart attack
Blackout = see heart attack
Entanglement = what, you don't carry cutting tools?
Divers even with cutting tools divers have died this year. Rescuers have also lost knives when trying to rescue.
Stuck somewhere = How exactly am I getting stuck? This makes no sense to me Does not apply to your situation then.
Currents = Buddy is screwed in the current just like you. 2 death!
If referring to only headlines, but in real world most people do survive.
Disorientation = Again I fail to see how that happens. or how it affects my ability to surface
Does not apply to your situation then.
Fog changing conditions = Oh come on, now your just getting silly
Does not apply to your situation then. Maybe this problem is where there is fog on the open ocean.
Unsafe exit points due to changing conditions = ok, so now 2 people are in danger instead of one.
Real world many divers do help each other to board or exit safely.
Injury such as a broken bone. = Where, underwater?!
Any diving situation underwater, on the surface, on a boat, entering and exiting the water.
Injury such as bleeding badly = see heart attack and/or shark attack
Fallen down and can't get up with no life alert = crawl back into your Hover-Round granny!
This happened to an woman hunting for Abalone.
Unable to drive self to emergency services = see heart attack (but this is the only one with a possibility of relevance)

Ever see ambulances or helicopters at the dive site?:smiley11:
Yep, I have. Stupid drunk boaters
In your area, it may be drunk boaters. The rescues and recoveries are performed and are not a joking matter. IMO

Maybe California and Florida are more crowded with more divers so more accidents and deaths.

Most important:
Remembering to bring lunch and giving a hand with weight belt and a hand with the hard to reach zipper.:smiley20:

My replies in red

texdiveguy
11-09-2008, 22:17
Set a higher goal. I have dove with 70+ yr olds that have outfished me gotten larger Abalone and have gone deeper for longer periods. I also biked with my 80 yr old neighbor 50-100 mi trips.

Dang now that is really great knowing that folks are very much active in sports they enjoy at those later ages!!! :)

I loved cycling up until my 40's when my earlier USCF days caught up with me.....my knees took a beating as well as the 'rear' end from thousands of miles a year on the saddle.

Keep up the nice diving out west---- I have never even been to Ca. and would love to have the opt. to dive your chilly kelp beds one day, and learn from ground up about timed Pacific shore diving entries/exits. That's whats so great about the continental US, is you do not have to even leave this country to experience most any kind of diving you want---we have it!

cmburch
11-09-2008, 22:24
Feel free to PM on SpearBoard if ever in NorCal and check out the California Section Pics.

texdiveguy
11-09-2008, 22:27
Feel free to PM on SpearBoard if ever in NorCal and check out the California Section Pics.

Thanks for the kind offer!

I will check out the photos over at SpB..

CompuDude
11-11-2008, 16:19
A recent DAN report says that 51% of trained cave divers who died were diving solo at the time of death. So that means 49% who died were with buddies, not a great margin of difference. What it doesn't say is how many of the buddy diver deaths involved multiple deaths in the buddy team.

Of course, it also doesn't say how many of those solo deaths would have been avoidable had there been a buddy present. As such, most statistics like that are pretty useless.

CompuDude
11-11-2008, 16:23
I'm not against solo diving, but to make a BLANKET statement saying that solo diving is no more dangerous than diving with a buddy is an absolute falsehood. There are any number of situations that having a buddy reasonably close by could result in saving a life. How much the odds are can vary, and "reasonable risk" is something each diver is free to decide on their own, but there is no doubt that there are more risks to the solo diver than the buddy diver.

This assumes a reasonably well-trained buddy. But even with a "dangerous" buddy, there are some risks that a solo diver endures that a buddy diver does not, or at least, does not to the same degree.

Nemrod
11-11-2008, 21:07
The reverse could be argued that a buddy contributed to or caused the problem, try as you might there is no proof that solo is more dangerous than buddy diving.

N

James1010
11-11-2008, 21:56
Going diving alone will be the dumbest thing you could possibly do. Think of all the risk that comes along with diving alone.

ianr33
11-11-2008, 22:22
Going diving alone will be the dumbest thing you could possibly do.

Bit of a sweeping statement dont ya think?

IMHO the safest way to do most dives is with a GOOD buddy. Next safest would be solo and worst of all would be with a BAD buddy.
Pretty simple really !

Exceptions would be dives that are crazy deep (>500 feet ?? , zero vis sumps or tight,nasty silty caves. ) For those dives solo probably makes more sense.

emcbride81
11-11-2008, 22:57
Going diving alone will be the dumbest thing you could possibly do. Think of all the risk that comes along with diving alone.


The risks are the same regardless, you could run out of air, get bent, etc...being with a buddy doesn't change that. The only thing a good buddy could do it help you out...that is why most solo divers will admit that diving with a good buddy is the safest way to dive.

And as the thread rules state, this isn't a place to insult a practice.

navyhmc
11-11-2008, 23:19
Eons ago, I probably would have made the "Solo is the stupidest thing...yada, yada, etc" Why? Because that's the only thing I knew, that has been drilled into my fairly thick skull since I took my first class. Even in pool time, there were consequences in losing your buddy. Everything was oriented around a buddy system. This and the fact that a solo diver was an outcast and there were literally no solo certifications to be had-no certifying agency back then would have even considered a solo cert.

I have been very lucky as I have had very few bad budddies. In those times I did have a bad one, I was lucky and nothing happened. But in those circumstances, had I needed help and was relying on a that "bud from hell", I would have been royally screwed!

A lot of statements have been made pro and con for solo, so I have done some research. On the internet, I have found articles saying you'll be a dead man within 5 minutes if you dive solo and others that have shown it is as safe as it could be. I will be taking a solo class in two weeks and then I will be able to say for myself whether or not it's a good thing or something designed by the devil himself-that or the flying dutchman, your choice

The basic fact remains. You're only as good a diver as your experience, your planning, your judgement, your training and your common sense. All are needed to dive safely be ye a new diver or someone who knew J.C. before he invented the aqualung.

CompuDude
11-11-2008, 23:46
The reverse could be argued that a buddy contributed to or caused the problem, try as you might there is no proof that solo is more dangerous than buddy diving.

N

I suspect statistics will be easier to assemble in favor of the increased risks of solo diving easier than the reverse. I'm not looking for a huge disparity, merely the acknowledgment that the blanket statement that "solo diving is no more dangerous than diving with a buddy" is false. I did specify a well-trained buddy, not a dangerous insta-buddy who has no business diving outside of pool.

Many people are comfortable with the different set of risks that solo diving brings. I am, too, in certain circumstances. I've done my share of solo diving, but it's not my preference. I do believe there are enhanced risks, and that solo diving reduces some risks, but raises more. Sometimes I'm ok with that, and sometimes I'm not. But the fact remains that there are more risks to the solo diver than there are to the diver accompanied by a skilled buddy. That is NOT a condemnation of the practice, merely an acknowledgment of risks.

fire diver
11-12-2008, 00:46
Going diving alone will be the dumbest thing you could possibly do. Think of all the risk that comes along with diving alone.

Isn't this the second, broad-stroke statement against solo diving you've here? I'm curious if you are here to discuss the issue of solo-ing or just to bash it.

Anyone can make general statements, but they need to be backed up by "facts" or reasons, or personal anectodotes, etc. Do you feel solo-ing is unsafe becuase of problems you have personally encountered or just becuase someone else said it was "the dumbest thing you could possibly do"?

in_cavediver
11-12-2008, 05:28
The reverse could be argued that a buddy contributed to or caused the problem, try as you might there is no proof that solo is more dangerous than buddy diving.

N

I suspect statistics will be easier to assemble in favor of the increased risks of solo diving easier than the reverse. I'm not looking for a huge disparity, merely the acknowledgment that the blanket statement that "solo diving is no more dangerous than diving with a buddy" is false. I did specify a well-trained buddy, not a dangerous insta-buddy who has no business diving outside of pool.

Many people are comfortable with the different set of risks that solo diving brings. I am, too, in certain circumstances. I've done my share of solo diving, but it's not my preference. I do believe there are enhanced risks, and that solo diving reduces some risks, but raises more. Sometimes I'm ok with that, and sometimes I'm not. But the fact remains that there are more risks to the solo diver than there are to the diver accompanied by a skilled buddy. That is NOT a condemnation of the practice, merely an acknowledgment of risks.

Few like to speak/hear the truth. Many also confuse risks with safety.

Solo diving DOES have more risks than buddy diving.
Buddy diving DOES have a few risks that solo diving does not.

Safety is all about mitigating risks. The more risks you can mitigate, the safer the dive will be. That said, there is an understanding that complexity is a risk in of itself. The more procedures you have, the more complexity and less degree of safety you can achieve.

In my opinion, solo diving can be almost as safe as buddy diving under most common circumstances

navyhmc
11-12-2008, 06:39
Well said in-cavediver!!!!

emcbride81
11-12-2008, 07:39
Compu and Cave, thank you and well said.

cmburch
11-12-2008, 15:50
When the anchovies come in close to shore in the Spring, I sometimes go solo night diving south of Santa Cruz for Halibut. I hang a light on my boat or leave a lantern on shore to mark my return. I do not have street or house lights on the shore or hills that would interfere with me seeing my lights.

What not to do when solo diving at night. - Spearboard Spearfishing Community (http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=73086)

I will reevaluate my hunting at night after reading this post by ZenSpearo. He describes hunting for lobster and losing sight of his boat while solo at night.

James1010
11-12-2008, 19:05
To much risk.

in_cavediver
11-12-2008, 19:21
To much risk.

Risk is an interesting thing. Scuba itself is extremely risky. To do it right, you have to go against all of your instincts. IE, don't hold your breath etc.

With training comes tools to mitigate risks. With more advanced dives comes more risk. Depth, currents, night diving, cold water etc. With more expierence and training comes more ways to mitigate said risks.

We still know a 90ft dive is inherently more dangerous than a 30ft dive but it is quite possible for one diver to be safer on the 90ft dive than another on the 30ft dive. Case in point, me, tec trained at 90ft with full cave/tec gear compared to OW diver on dive #5 at 30ft. Different risks and different capacities to mitigate said risks.

Now, you may feel solo diving is too risky. It just means you can't mitigate the risks to a level you are comfortable with. Not a bad thing, and actually, for a lot of divers a wise and astute move.

That said, to blanketly condemn the practice based on your skills is a little irresponsible. I personally bring to the table a lot more in the way of training, expierence and requirements. Quite frankly, the last class I took was all about how to dive in a solo environment in a cave (sidemount). This is pretty much stating that team diving may be impossible in some caves at some points. You may have a buddy but they may not be able to help you.

Solo isn't for everyone and shouldn't be taken lightly. Then again, its just like tec diving or cave diving. It can be done with relative safety given the proper training and/or expierence.

cmburch
11-12-2008, 19:31
Too much fun James. Yes, it is better if a friend can make the dive. Imagine out on the surface of the water. A full moon reflecting on the water like small flashes of light on the wavelets. The gentle sound of the surf breaking on the beach. A pelican or other bird flying within feet above your head as it skims across the water and is surprised by your presence. Quite and peace all around you. Submerging and looking up at the surface with the bright distorted moon shining down through the water.

Scanning the bottom for your prey. Okay the searching part is boring. Halibut are in the sandy areas. Spotting an outline in the sand. Now the interesting part after spotting. Backing off and performing a search for the largest in the area. If that is the only one, "Thunk"! If a clean shot then great. If not, prepare for a short thrill ride.

Nemrod
11-12-2008, 22:44
The reverse could be argued that a buddy contributed to or caused the problem, try as you might there is no proof that solo is more dangerous than buddy diving.

N

I suspect statistics will be easier to assemble in favor of the increased risks of solo diving easier than the reverse. I'm not looking for a huge disparity, merely the acknowledgment that the blanket statement that "solo diving is no more dangerous than diving with a buddy" is false. I did specify a well-trained buddy, not a dangerous insta-buddy who has no business diving outside of pool.

Many people are comfortable with the different set of risks that solo diving brings. I am, too, in certain circumstances. I've done my share of solo diving, but it's not my preference. I do believe there are enhanced risks, and that solo diving reduces some risks, but raises more. Sometimes I'm ok with that, and sometimes I'm not. But the fact remains that there are more risks to the solo diver than there are to the diver accompanied by a skilled buddy. That is NOT a condemnation of the practice, merely an acknowledgment of risks.

Not meaning to be argumentative but you really have nothing but antedotal evidence which is useless and of little value as far as I am concerned. He said, she said, urban legend sort of stuff. There is no evidence that solo is inheritely more dangerous than buddy diving. Saying it is so because it SEEMS logical does not make it so.

N

ianr33
11-12-2008, 23:00
If I were to get entangled in a Gill Net or Cave line, suffer an Oxygen Toxicity incident,get vertigo under water due to ear problems,have my first ever epileptic seizure,get a cramp with a long swim needed to get back to shore etc etc etc then I would choose to be with a good buddy.

I enjoy solo diving,it can be made acceptably safe to me,but I dont believe that it is MORE safe than diving with a GOOD buddy.

texdiveguy
11-12-2008, 23:53
If I had a front donning dry suit I would be doing allot more cold water solo diving.....but still many times I find some poor sole just standing near by....give them the mini-101 on zipping a rear entry dry suit and off I go. Getting out of the suit is no great issue even with the rear zip.

CompuDude
11-13-2008, 03:09
Not meaning to be argumentative but you really have nothing but antedotal evidence which is useless and of little value as far as I am concerned. He said, she said, urban legend sort of stuff. There is no evidence that solo is inheritely more dangerous than buddy diving. Saying it is so because it SEEMS logical does not make it so.

N

My point has been made and stands on it's own. You're free to believe as you choose, and dive as you choose.

navyhmc
11-13-2008, 03:20
If I had a front donning dry suit I would be doing allot more cold water solo diving.....but still many times I find some poor sole just standing near by....give them the mini-101 on zipping a rear entry dry suit and off I go. Getting out of the suit is no great issue even with the rear zip.

:smilie39: Kind of embarassing to go up to a complete stranger and ask: "Would you zip me?" :smilie39:

ianr33
11-13-2008, 06:15
At least its better than asking "Would you unzip me ? " !

Nemrod
11-13-2008, 08:46
Not meaning to be argumentative but you really have nothing but antedotal evidence which is useless and of little value as far as I am concerned. He said, she said, urban legend sort of stuff. There is no evidence that solo is inheritely more dangerous than buddy diving. Saying it is so because it SEEMS logical does not make it so.

N



My point has been made and stands on it's own. You're free to believe as you choose, and dive as you choose.


What point, I am confused by your points. I do dive as I please and after decades of solo diving I am still here. You use the word "believe" and that fits your opinion, you believe solo is more dangerous but beyond gut insticts and antedotal statements you have no actual bonifide proof either way. Belief is good, facts are better and in this case the facts are there is no evidence that proves solo is 1.4 timres more dangerous, 0.5 times as dangerous, 10.234567 times more dangerous. "Expert" opinions are just that, an opinion.

N

Nemrod
11-13-2008, 08:55
If I were to get entangled in a Gill Net or Cave line, suffer an Oxygen Toxicity incident,get vertigo under water due to ear problems,have my first ever epileptic seizure,get a cramp with a long swim needed to get back to shore etc etc etc then I would choose to be with a good buddy.

I enjoy solo diving,it can be made acceptably safe to me,but I dont believe that it is MORE safe than diving with a GOOD buddy.

People fly airplanes solo, hike solo, climb mountains solo, drive a car at 70 MPH solo and many other things. Any of your fears such as a first ever epileptic seizure could kill you (and others) dead driving a car on the freeway at 70 MPH. A meteor might reasonably land on your car as well just after you have the "first ever" epileptic seizure. If probabilities are you guys concerns then you need to do some statistical research, maybe get into actuaries instead of day dreaming up what if scenarios.

Just as likely, the good buddy, would hold you back, drag you down, obligate you to stay with him, expose you to a danger otherwise not. It is 50/50 either way.

N, safety is not job number one, living is and nobody ever promised life was safe or should be.

in_cavediver
11-13-2008, 11:34
The reverse could be argued that a buddy contributed to or caused the problem, try as you might there is no proof that solo is more dangerous than buddy diving.

N

I suspect statistics will be easier to assemble in favor of the increased risks of solo diving easier than the reverse. I'm not looking for a huge disparity, merely the acknowledgment that the blanket statement that "solo diving is no more dangerous than diving with a buddy" is false. I did specify a well-trained buddy, not a dangerous insta-buddy who has no business diving outside of pool.

Many people are comfortable with the different set of risks that solo diving brings. I am, too, in certain circumstances. I've done my share of solo diving, but it's not my preference. I do believe there are enhanced risks, and that solo diving reduces some risks, but raises more. Sometimes I'm ok with that, and sometimes I'm not. But the fact remains that there are more risks to the solo diver than there are to the diver accompanied by a skilled buddy. That is NOT a condemnation of the practice, merely an acknowledgment of risks.

Not meaning to be argumentative but you really have nothing but antedotal evidence which is useless and of little value as far as I am concerned. He said, she said, urban legend sort of stuff. There is no evidence that solo is inheritely more dangerous than buddy diving. Saying it is so because it SEEMS logical does not make it so.

N

Nemrod,

I think everyone actually agrees. Remember risks does not directly equate to danger or safety. I am confident we could find more risks to mitigate for solo diving than for buddy diving. I know when I have done it and conteplated it for different dives, I did more planning for it.

THAT SAID, I can mitigate those risks to make it similar to buddy diving in regards to overall safety. Therefore, its not inherently more dangerous - just more risks to deal with.

texdiveguy
11-13-2008, 11:47
And dealing with the added risks is what drives the inner being of solo and technical divers to a great part.

ianr33
11-13-2008, 19:51
People fly airplanes solo, hike solo, climb mountains solo, drive a car at 70 MPH solo and many other things. Any of your fears such as a first ever epileptic seizure could kill you (and others) dead driving a car on the freeway at 70 MPH. A meteor might reasonably land on your car as well just after you have the "first ever" epileptic seizure. If probabilities are you guys concerns then you need to do some statistical research, maybe get into actuaries instead of day dreaming up what if scenarios.

Just as likely, the good buddy, would hold you back, drag you down, obligate you to stay with him, expose you to a danger otherwise not. It is 50/50 either way.

N, safety is not job number one, living is and nobody ever promised life was safe or should be.

You said they were fears,not me! I've hiked some pretty big hills solo. In my climbing days I did some solo climbs (freeclimbing) I was and am fine with the risks (Wouldn't do it otherwise)

As I said, I enjoy solo diving, IMHO it can be ALMOST as safe as diving with a buddy.

Have you ever dived with a good buddy? They dont drag you down or anything else.
Incidentally everybody I consider a good buddy is technically trained. With my OW friends I'm pretty much diving solo anyway.

cummings66
11-14-2008, 19:04
That's the thing, good buddy. There's not a lot of good buddies, I have some but have dove with many that I'd rather be a solo diver instead.

I'm not afraid of solo diving, I dress appropriately and consider what the dive is. Nemrod is more adventurous than I am, but that's because he has more experience in solo diving than I do. It's all got to do with the skills you have and your experience. I respect Nemrod as a diver.

Nemrod
11-15-2008, 13:14
Strange that the solo forum is attempting to describe a good buddy.

A good buddy when I was young and single was either a:
1. A cute girl
2. A guy that was more homely than myself and knew a lot of cute girls

and nowadays it is:

1. My wife
2. A few buddies I know from the vintage community who are more self reliant than myself. These guys don't hang on me and ask me over and over if I am OK and I don't have to rescue them three times per dive nor do they attempt to rescue me because my mask is on my forehead nor are they always quoting "my instructor said" type gibberish like I would care.

Everybody thinks their local school, their congressman, their "good" buddy is good, maybe, maybe not, more likely probably not.

N

navyhmc
11-15-2008, 16:36
Well, it can be said that a solo diver will make a good buddy as well due to there confidence and self reliance is indeed a good thing.

I am just starting the SDI solo course. I will do the class room and dives in 10 days and counting down. So far, I like what I have read. I was pleased that a good portion of it is simply review of my currnet knowledge base and skills in as much as I already practice a lot of the things in the book already. I do like that it definitely advises that solo is not for extending yourself beyond your current comfort level and rec limits.

texdiveguy
11-15-2008, 16:47
*I do like that it definitely advises that solo is not for extending yourself beyond your current comfort level and rec limits.

This should be true of any well formated recreational dive program.....never took one that did not emphasis that.

Let us know how you liked the course, sounds like so far you are pleased with the SDI materials, and since your dive practices already take much of the protocols into account you will probably finding the learning curve easy.

Out of curiosity why are you doing the course?

:)

navyhmc
11-15-2008, 19:17
*I do like that it definitely advises that solo is not for extending yourself beyond your current comfort level and rec limits.

This should be true of any well formated recreational dive program.....never took one that did not emphasis that.

Let us know how you liked the course, sounds like so far you are pleased with the SDI materials, and since your dive practices already take much of the protocols into account you will probably finding the learning curve easy.

Out of curiosity why are you doing the course?

:)


I have a great buddy who was my partner at EMS so it was great-we both had the same weekends off to go dive. When he wnet to another service, our dive time has suffered greatly. So I have a choice of not diving or going to the closest dive spot and hoping to do some pick up dives. While a few of the ST'ers I have met there (Dark Wolf, Diving CRNA, Brandon Belew, Kenny D and CWSWine to name a few) and dove with are also great, they are not always available so I either end up not diving or getting a lot fewer dives than I had hoped.

Solo will aleviate this. The training and skills block also sounded good too.

texdiveguy
11-15-2008, 19:48
*I do like that it definitely advises that solo is not for extending yourself beyond your current comfort level and rec limits.

This should be true of any well formated recreational dive program.....never took one that did not emphasis that.

Let us know how you liked the course, sounds like so far you are pleased with the SDI materials, and since your dive practices already take much of the protocols into account you will probably finding the learning curve easy.

Out of curiosity why are you doing the course?

:)


I have a great buddy who was my partner at EMS so it was great-we both had the same weekends off to go dive. When he wnet to another service, our dive time has suffered greatly. So I have a choice of not diving or going to the closest dive spot and hoping to do some pick up dives. While a few of the ST'ers I have met there (Dark Wolf, Diving CRNA, Brandon Belew, Kenny D and CWSWine to name a few) and dove with are also great, they are not always available so I either end up not diving or getting a lot fewer dives than I had hoped.

Solo will aleviate this. The training and skills block also sounded good too.

Yea loosing a good buddy is hard to replace, I bet you will find solo diving challenging and enjoyable those times when you can not hook-up with a close buddy.

Best wishes with the class and dives!!

:)

captain
11-16-2008, 13:00
Strange that the solo forum is attempting to describe a good buddy.

A good buddy when I was young and single was either a:
1. A cute girl
2. A guy that was more homely than myself and knew a lot of cute girls

and nowadays it is:

1. My wife
2. A few buddies I know from the vintage community who are more self reliant than myself. These guys don't hang on me and ask me over and over if I am OK and I don't have to rescue them three times per dive nor do they attempt to rescue me because my mask is on my forehead nor are they always quoting "my instructor said" type gibberish like I would care.

Everybody thinks their local school, their congressman, their "good" buddy is good, maybe, maybe not, more likely probably not.

N

As part of the vintage diving community I can say I have never had another vintage diver ask me to be their buddy nor have I asked them, we all jump in and do our own thing.

Nemrod
11-16-2008, 23:25
Strange that the solo forum is attempting to describe a good buddy.

A good buddy when I was young and single was either a:
1. A cute girl
2. A guy that was more homely than myself and knew a lot of cute girls

and nowadays it is:

1. My wife
2. A few buddies I know from the vintage community who are more self reliant than myself. These guys don't hang on me and ask me over and over if I am OK and I don't have to rescue them three times per dive nor do they attempt to rescue me because my mask is on my forehead nor are they always quoting "my instructor said" type gibberish like I would care.

Everybody thinks their local school, their congressman, their "good" buddy is good, maybe, maybe not, more likely probably not.

N

As part of the vintage diving community I can say I have never had another vintage diver ask me to be their buddy nor have I asked them, we all jump in and do our own thing.

I have buddied with JES, Simmonbeans, Robo and several others but most of the time we just all dive and sorta look out for one another. Since most, but not all of us, are rather experienced to say the least, the usual babysitting drills can be dispensed with. I don't completely consider myself solo in such dives. LOL, hope any non vintage divers we come upon in need of rescuing can buddy breath because otherwise they are SOL.

N

navyhmc
11-21-2008, 22:55
Hey, I remember buddy breathing...had to go from 60' to the surface buddy breathing duringthe OW checkout. Man, that was a long time ago. I still think I can do it though.