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CaribbeanDiver
10-03-2007, 16:45
I am always searching for ways to be a better diver. More knowledgeable, more skilled, safer and better able to be a good buddy.
With that way of thinking, I completed several courses and hold a ton of cards. I am not sure any of them jolted me over some magical hump or made me lightyears better than I was going in but each of them gave me a little bit more knowledge and in some way, made me a teensy weensy bit better as a diver.
Now I am thinking I want to take the Master Scuba Diver course and wonder what it entails. A semi-local shop (baton rouge) is offering the course (NAUI) at a low price of $185 and I asked them what would I do and have to learn. They replied, a few nights of classroom lectures, a pool dive and two days of checkout dives.
I looked on the NAUI site and they said 8 dives plus classroom work. (they were more detailed but that is the gist).
And now I am wondering, is this course going to be one where I gain knowledge and become better, safer, as a diver? Or is this just another card for my wallet? I dont need no more steeeken cards, I want knowledge and skills training.
So, all of you out there that are Instructors, shop owners, and such, what is the deal with the Master Scuba Diver course? I am interested in SSI or NAUI because in my (yea, I know narrow view) opinion, I prefer NAUI and SSI much more than PADI because the PADI courses I have seen are rather mickey mouse compared to the NAUI courses of the same title.

ScubaToys Larry
10-03-2007, 16:59
If it's just a few nights of class room.. they are assuming that you really know your stuff - or will be doing a ton of self study. A Master Diver for Naui is basically someone who wants instructor level knowledge - so basically instructor or DM types of tests on Physics, Physiology, Environment, Dive Tables, etc... and has all the water skills - but doesn't want to work with classes.

If you want to work toward being an instructor - the Divemaster course will not vary much in the amount you learn - you just spend additional time going over the teaching and evaluating and working with divers more.

For either your level of knowledge that you will be tested on will be, as an example in physics: You have a 80 lb anchor that occupies 1/4 cubic foot of space sitting on the floor bed at 92 feet of depth in salt water. How much air would you need to pump from the surface to fill the air lift bag to make it neutrally buoyant?

TxScubaBear
10-03-2007, 17:01
For either your level of knowledge that you will be tested on will be, as an example in physics: You have a 80 lb anchor that occupies 1/4 cubic foot of space sitting on the floor bed at 92 feet of depth in salt water. How much air would you need to pump from the surface to fill the air lift bag to make it neutrally buoyant?

:eek2: sounds like it tends to be a bit on the intense side...BUT educational

ScubaToys Larry
10-03-2007, 17:33
Ah come on.. that's not that hard... Here are some pages over in our educational area that walk you through all the gas laws and how to calculate those types of problems: http://www.scubatoys.com/education/archimedes.asp

mike_s
10-03-2007, 17:36
My impression was that the NAUI MSD course was a real course that you had to spend a lot of time in, not just a night of classroom.

Any LDS that offers a lesser version of what the requirements are, I'd be leary of.

The PADI Master Diver course is basically get 5 speciailities, fill out a form, send in some extra $$$ and they print you a new shiney card.


Remember it's not so much the agency that you learn from, but from the instructor. Any instructor who wants to "hurry up the class" is doing it to meet his needs and not his students.

dludwig
10-03-2007, 17:39
I think PADI also requires RESCUE DIVER along w/ 5 specialities

CaribbeanDiver
10-03-2007, 17:49
I believe NAUI also requires the applicant to have successfully completed Rescue.
Thanks for the info everyone. Larry, that sounds an awfully lot like one of those nameless math courses I took in H.S. Only this time, there is no smart girl to sit next to that will let me see her answers.

Vercingetorix
10-03-2007, 17:50
I think PADI also requires RESCUE DIVER along w/ 5 specialitiesNope.

datamunk
10-03-2007, 17:51
yea, id get rescue and then maybe divemaster... that an just dive.. thats the best way to get better is thru experience

datamunk
10-03-2007, 17:51
PADI Master Diver is rescue plus 8 specialties

RECDiver
10-03-2007, 17:53
The NAUI Master Scuba Diver course is the highest non-leadership rating offered. It is also a pre-requisite to the NAUI DM course. The MSD text has alot of "meat" as it were. As Larry said, the MSD academics is what you take to a NAUI ITC. The MSD exam is 100 questions. There are a minimum of 8 open water dives. Required dives are Emergency procedures and rescue, Deep dive, Limited vis or night dive, U/W navigation and search and recovery dives. The other dives are elective dives that either the instructor or instructor and class determine. Yes, the course can be alot of work, but it sure can improve a divers' skills. Personally, I would recommend it, but alot depends on the instructor you have for the course.

CompuDude
10-03-2007, 18:07
I think PADI also requires RESCUE DIVER along w/ 5 specialitiesNope.


PADI Master Diver is rescue plus 8 specialties

Um, YES. PADI's Master Scuba Diver is simply a PADI Rescue cert (prereq) plus any 5 specialties. And an application, of course. There is a 50 dive minimum requirement, as well, but that's it. http://www.padi.com/padi/en/kd/msd.aspx

NAUI's Master Scuba Diver is a very intense course along the lines Larry laid out. A full DiveMaster course without the teaching parts. I have trouble seeing how it could be finished in the timeline described by the OP without significant shortcuts. It is generally regarded as a fantastic course but I am suspicious of the offer of doing it in such a short time.

tbuckalew
10-03-2007, 19:11
Yep, I have a NAUI Master cert (used to be called Advanced before they renamed everything). Basically, if you want to KNOW SCUBA, it is a great course. You really learn the knowledge behind what you do and why. You really find it helpful in figuring out what to do in the water. The U/W skills are pretty fun to learn as well.

In my class, we actually had these five gallone plastic buckets full of cement with large eye bolts in them with two feet of chain attached, a five foot steel bar with the edges ground round with holes on either end and some lift bags. We practiced in a lake with a weedy bottom (enough to hide the buckets from any view but directly above). The instructor would dump the pieces across an area and we would go out in teams and practice various search techniques to find them. Once located, we would map them and send the other team (with out info) to recover them with the lift bags (chains went up throught he holes in the bar with lift bags on both ends - fun learning to control multiple bags). Then we would swap during the SIT.

Ahhh...the memories. I still use those skills learned (bits here and there) on every dive. If you are really interested in learning and expanding your skills. I would recommend it.

subsur
10-03-2007, 19:15
hey,
i'm also cosidering Master Scuba Diver bevause I don't plan to go professional but i want to improve my skills and knowledge. if i ever do the class it's going to be through NAUI. i've heard tons of great stuff about that particular class. i will not do it through PADI. the price here is $550 so you are lucky to have it for 185.

MxDiver
10-03-2007, 19:36
I think PADI also requires RESCUE DIVER along w/ 5 specialitiesNope.

Yes they do, check here:
http://www.padi.com/padi/en/kd/padicourses.aspx

somewhereinla
10-03-2007, 19:46
The NAUI scuba master is a bit of work, and being good in understanding physics and algebra is a big help. You'll learn a lot of new things and really understand much more about diving and good planning. Rescue is not a prerequisite for the NAUI Master Scuba Diver.

rfreddo
10-03-2007, 20:09
You have a 80 lb anchor that occupies 1/4 cubic foot of space sitting on the floor bed at 92 feet of depth in salt water. How much air would you need to pump from the surface to fill the air lift bag to make it neutrally buoyant?

OK, here's a stab:

(1) A 1/4 cubic foot object in salt water would have 1/4 x 64 lbs of lift, or 16 lbs of bouyant force.

(2) If we subtract 16 lbs from 80 lbs we get 64 lbs. This means we need to generate 64 lbs of lift to make the anchor neutrally bouyant.

(3) We then divide 64 lbs (the anchor's weight in salt water) by 64 lbs (the weight of a cubic foot of salt water) to get 1 cubic foot of displacement needed to make the anchor neutrally bouyant.

(4) Since the question asks how much air we need to pump from the surface, where the pressure is almost 4 times less than the pressure at 92 feet, we have to account for pressure at depth. Therefore, to fill a 1 cubic foot lift bag at 92 feet, we would need to pump almost 4 cubic feet of air from the surface. The calculator says it's actually about 3.67648 cubic feet.

How'd I do?

CaribbeanDiver
10-03-2007, 20:28
Thanks everyone for incredibly informative answers and suggestions. I investigated taking a DM course but was deterred because of the legalities involved once a diver becomes a certified DM.
The NAUI Master Scuba Diver course seemed like the perfect option if I wanted to remain at the recreational level.
I am delighted to learn that the information is on par with that required for professional certs such as DM and Instructor. And while I believe a great amount of the information and knowledge may be forgotten for lack of use, it is always helpful to be aware that such information and knowledge can easily be rehashed and relearned.
I am even more interested after reading the answers above but would like to find a shop that offers the course with no shortcuts and demands a graduate to successfully pass the course, not just complete the course -- if you know what I mean.
I agree that the baton rouge dive shop's explanation of requirements seemed lacking and that is partially why I asked for help here.
I am going to Roatan at the end of Oct and when I asked the Instructor there, he told me that I could not finish the course in the week I would be there. And when I got a monthly email newsletter for the Baton Rouge shop announcing they had a MSD course scheduled, I called for info and price. What I got seemed vastly different than the info I got from the the Roatan Resort. I am not trying to punish myself but I would rather take the course from someone that would challenge me. As I said, I do not need any more cards, I enjoy the training and wish to accomplish my diving goal of make as many ascents as I make decents.
So now, I must find a dive shop offering the NAUI course that is located somewhere within a reasonable proximity of me.
Again, Thanks everyone, you helped me understand what I would be getting into and gave me what I needed to make an informed decision.

And Larry, loved the info provided in the Education section. printed some of it as a matter of fact.

pnevai
10-03-2007, 21:51
sorry no calculators allowed

CompuDude
10-04-2007, 12:08
Good job, rfreddo, that's pretty much the idea.

And yes, calculators are allowed.

CaribbeanDiver, that's exactly the case.

ChrisA
10-04-2007, 16:38
I believe NAUI also requires the applicant to have successfully completed Rescue.
Thanks for the info everyone. Larry, that sounds an awfully lot like one of those nameless math courses I took in H.S. Only this time, there is no smart girl to sit next to that will let me see her answers.

I just took the NAUI Master test last weekend. It is NOT hard. They even use easy numbers you can work in your head. For example what is five thirds of 3000. If your tank holds 80 cu ft at 3000 psi how many cu ft are left at 2000 psi (assuming same temperture) I was expecting them to ask me how many beers were in a six pack. One question was something like "A poisons animal..., a) has toxins in it's tissues, b) is safe, c) can sting you. It's not a hard test.

The test is very easy compared to the book. The book is very good and I'd recommend it to any diver to read and keep as a reference and review now and then. The class is good if they cover the material, but the test is designed so everyone can pass

I took a dive class with LA County last year. The instructor said we had covered all the water work for naui master early in the class and at any time we could take the naui rescue and master tests so I finally went in and took the naui written tests. It was 10X easier then the final exam I took last year.

Bottom line: You could learn a lot in a naui master diver class if the instructor wanted to teach it to you. or you could learn very little if he just runs a "test prep" session.

My instructor beat it into us and spent well over 100 hours doing so and handed out many homework asignments. the class lasted for months. On the other hand i know of one dive buddy of mine where the instructor just said "come in and take the test when you are ready and did not even have one in class session, just 100% self study from the book.

liuk3
10-05-2007, 16:32
I think like most things in life, you get out of it what you put into it.

Even if your instructor doesn't spend much time reviewing material for the class, if you have the books, you can certainly put your own extra time into reading and re-reading the text to ingrain it into your brain. I have the books for NAUI Scuba Diver (OW), NAUI Rescue, and NAUI Master Scuba Diver. While I did feel like I had very dedicated and good instructors, I also do feel that you could read the books and study well on your own if you were of the self-motivated type. I found the NAUI books all well-written and easily readable/digestable, especially since they highlight and bold type for you important points. I wasn't as much concerned whether I'd pass some test as much as I was more concerned about trying to absorb as much material as possible to be a better diver.

If this learning is your ultimate motivation, I am sure that you will find the knowledge you seek. In the mean time, I just try to read whatever I can get my hands on to try to learn more. I must have at least 4 books on diving which are sitting on my bookshelf that I still have to read. I also plan on re-reading every so often the material/books from the courses I've taken. Good luck!