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TopSully
10-05-2007, 15:45
What are your thoughts on these combo units? As a newbie, it sounds like a good idea, but what are the real world drawbacks, if any?

Charles R
10-05-2007, 15:49
Some drawbacks sre if your inflator goes so does your buddies air. this is one of those topics people either love them or hate them. If it breaths good and you like go for it remember in an out of air situation it will be you breathing off it not you buddy.

Bigg_Budd
10-05-2007, 15:55
I have the Atomic SS1. I liked it until rescue class. Doing a controled ascent while buddy breathing is a BITCH!

However, I like having one less hose dangling from me. So I'll deal with it...

BSea
10-05-2007, 16:11
I used to have an air source, but I took it off to have a standard oct. But I'll use it for trips when I like everything to be easier.

ScubaJ
10-05-2007, 16:14
I'll 2nd BiggBudd's comment. Nice to have one less hose on your gear, so for 90% of the time it's great. Can be a real pain to do buddy breathing though. The inflater hose is short, so you have to cock your head to the side to breath from it. At least I had to when I did those drills.

dutchman
10-05-2007, 17:29
It was my understanding that you use the inflator octo while your buddy uses your first stage. It having the longer hose. Am I missing something here?

cshel
10-05-2007, 17:31
No, you aren't missing anything. I have that setup and so does my buddy. When we buddy breathe, I use the short one and he uses my main reg.

somewhereinla
10-05-2007, 17:45
I don't like them as I think they would make things very complicated should an emergency happen. Also all rescue trainings / drills assume you have a regular octo. Furthermore if you use the combo, ascending is made very difficult when you are breathing threw it, especially if you had to lift a buddy in distress. I avoid diving with people that use such equipment.

JCAT
10-05-2007, 17:45
I like mine pretty much, didn't think I would when I changed over from the bungied backup.

I do have to cock my head and hold tight, but If its in my mouth I'm heading topside anyway.

my 2psi

rfreddo
10-05-2007, 17:50
Top Sully -

There are several discussions in a few different areas on the board. I started a thread with the same or a similar name in the general scuba training forum. Some good pro and cons can be found there.

comet24
10-05-2007, 17:52
I have one and really like it and not having an extra hose. They are great for recreational diving.

DevilDiver
10-05-2007, 17:58
I had the Octo Z. I did not have a short hose issue or have to cock my head and I found it easy to breathe. I really like that is was removable with the garden hose thread for washing the BC's bladder out.
I went back to my regular octo set-up though because I felt the Octo Z was heavy and I don't like things hanging down. I almost always have a camera in my hand and did not like holding the Octo Z to keep it from dragging on something...........
I believe these are great products but might not be right for everyone. If you purchase do it for a reason........
Hope this helps!

ScubaToys Larry
10-05-2007, 18:21
I don't like them as I think they would make things very complicated should an emergency happen. Also all rescue trainings / drills assume you have a regular octo. Furthermore if you use the combo, ascending is made very difficult when you are breathing threw it, especially if you had to lift a buddy in distress. I avoid diving with people that use such equipment.

Since you said you "think they would make" I'm guessing you never tried ascents with them. The other side of the coin... I have found they are better in an emergency... but maybe that's just me.

Let's examine the How It Works In An Emergency angle.

There are basically 4 ways to handle alternate air. 1) a complete redundant system... pony or spare air. 2) a standard octo 3) a long hose on the primary where you hand off the primary, and go to a shorter hosed bungied octo around your neck 4) an octo inflator.

Now the tech guys like the long hose with a bungied octo and donate the primary. The long hose got it's length primairly because you would need a hose that long so the OOA diver could trail the donating diver through a small opening in a wreck or cave. Makes total sense from that standpoint.

With an octo inflator, you hand off your primary, and go the the octo inflator. Now in an emergency, it is almost an instinctive move to hand away your primary - and it is very instinctive to grab someones reg out of their mouth if you are the person out of air. So in that situation, as a donating diver who just lost their reg, I'd much rather have a reg around my neck, or up on my chest on an inflator that you know right where it is as you've used it multiple times during the dive - and if you have to feel for it - you have very distinctive hoses - the inflator corrugated hose that have a much different tactile feel, making it unlikely to mistake for other hoses in your system. Follow that to the end... you have air.

So I personally prefer that system - and I have thousands of dives with it. I have done tons of ascents using it as I've taught hundreds of Rescue, DM and Instructor courses with that as my rig. I like it when instructors have them when dealing with students as it exposes them to other options they might see in the real world. Especially in Rescue classes - we try to expose students to all the options they may encounter... not just one style of alt air.

I personally would not avoid diving with someone because their setup is different than mine - and I think it would be unfortunate if someone would refuse to do a dive with me because they were not familiar with my setup. I'd rather they ask to become familiar with it, and maybe after we buddy up and hop in, we do a couple quick practice OOA drills so we can both feel comfortable with each others gear.

I have also found that having the chance to talk to the other divers about their gear, also gives me a bonding with them underwater - and I tell them I would like them to ask me for my air pressure, and I will ask them for theirs throughout the dive. I feel this is more important that personal preferences in octo setup. And I feel that is why in 5000 + dives - I have never had an actual out of air situation with anyone around me.

But something tells me if you did... and you swam up to me, and I offered up my primary and dropped my octo inflator in my mouth, you wouldn't swim off looking for someone with a different gear configuration.:smiley2:

awap
10-05-2007, 19:33
I used one for years and liked it until I went with a BP/Wing and a slung pony. The slung pony got in the way of the octo/inflator so I changed to a conventional octo on a short hose bungeed around my neck.

My wife still uses the octo/inflator and likes it.

If you really want to control hose clutter, look at hose lengths and routing rather than just the number of hoses. I went to a long hose primary when I finally got fed up with the std length hose catching on everythig I swam too close to. Since then I make a lot of changes to streamline my rig.

dutchman
10-05-2007, 20:01
Larry, I could not have explained it better.

BobArnold8265
10-05-2007, 22:42
I dive with a Scubapro Air2 and really like it. Fewer hoses, less drag in the water. As for an emergency, I simply practice giving my buddy my main reg and switch to my Air2. If you practice, it's shouldn't be a big deal. Also, your octo/inflator should be as easy to breath from as your main reg. If it's not, then I think that's a different problem altogether. I breathed off of my Air2 on an entire dive once just to prove that it worked to my satisfaction. I'm happy to report that it performed every bit as well as my main reg and that I have full confidence in it should an emergency arise.

Formerly 45yroldNewbie
10-05-2007, 23:22
I've got one for my Seaquest XL and really like it. You just need to make sure that your buddy knows your setup in case an OOA situation does arise. The only problem is I want to get a longer hose for my primary in case I need to share for real as it is you better be pretty good friends as we'll be pretty close on the way up.

rfreddo
10-05-2007, 23:56
When using an octo-inflator with a BC like the Zeagle Brigade, which has no shoulder dump other than the left shoulder valve operated by pulling on the inflator hose, what is the procedure for dumping air from the BC while ascending if I happen to be breathing from the octo-inflator in an air share situation? Is there a commonly taught method? Seems like all the options I can think of result in interuption of the normal breathing pattern.

ScubaToys Larry
10-06-2007, 05:26
Just hit the deflate button... If you picture your position in the water while making an ascent, your head is higher than your air cell. If you hit the deflate button, even while still in your mouth, it will exhaust air from the bc. You could also just take it out of your mouth for a second and give a yank on the hose to pull your shoulder dump. It's not like you have to dump air ever few feet throughout the ascent... I normally dump one or two times while ascending, so either of those methods work for me.

cshel
10-06-2007, 20:54
Thank you, Larry. I have a Zeagle Zena with octo/inflator. I only have 25 dives, but I am very comfortable with it. When Boris42 got his gear, he opted for the same setup. Having a dive buddy with the same gear is certainly convenient. I have had other "insta-buddies" look at it really strange but they seem to relax when they realize they will be breathing out of my primary in a OOA situation. There is no fumbling required - from my mouth to theirs. I know exactly where my inflator hose is - my hand goes there without thinking.

datamunk
10-06-2007, 21:33
yep, convienient but better off with an octo, imo. oh and even more so than an octo, a WORKING octo :D

TopSully
10-08-2007, 06:53
Top Sully -

There are several discussions in a few different areas on the board. I started a thread with the same or a similar name in the general scuba training forum. Some good pro and cons can be found there.


I'll head over and look there. So far it seems like there are a few people who like the convience, and at least one person who will avoid me if I have one.

charlesml3
10-08-2007, 09:25
and at least one person who will avoid me if I have one.

I think that's a fairly common response on a forum but highly unlikely in the real world. Like Larry said, if they're OOA, they're coming to the closest diver, not the one with the rig they prefer.

I've lost count of the number of threads I've read that end up with "Well, I wouldn't be on the boat with you.." I just laugh at those.

The Octo-Inflators are fine. I've owned two of them. I take the Octo-Z and hand off my Proton to the other diver. No biggie. I'm constantly amazed at how emotional people get over these things. When I started diving there WERE NO octos at all. We were trained to buddy breathe a single reg between the two of us on the ascent. I'm pretty sure I could still do that.

-Charles

Charlotte Smith
10-08-2007, 09:36
and at least one person who will avoid me if I have one.

I think that's a fairly common response on a forum but highly unlikely in the real world. Like Larry said, if they're OOA, they're coming to the closest diver, not the one with the rig they prefer.

I've lost count of the number of threads I've read that end up with "Well, I wouldn't be on the boat with you.." I just laugh at those.

The Octo-Inflators are fine. I've owned two of them. I take the Octo-Z and hand off my Proton to the other diver. No biggie. I'm constantly amazed at how emotional people get over these things. When I started diving there WERE NO octos at all. We were trained to buddy breathe a single reg between the two of us on the ascent. I'm pretty sure I could still do that.

-Charles
Well said.......

creggur
10-08-2007, 09:40
My wife and I trained on Air2's and went with Octo-Z's when we got our own gear. Our instructor used a conventional setup so we got to train on both, and I prefer the combo setup.

My wife and I are going to go with 40" primary hoses with swivels on the 2nd stage to give us a little more room if we ever have to share air.

Gasp: An Octo/inflater and swivel on my primay....I wonder how many people will avoid diving with me:smiley36:???? Like Larry said if someone is out of air I'll bet they wont be concerned at all with the gear configuration...:smiley20:

blue37
10-08-2007, 11:32
Could you still use the option of a octo on a necklace with a standard hose?

bperrybap
10-08-2007, 13:27
Just hit the deflate button... If you picture your position in the water while making an ascent, your head is higher than your air cell. If you hit the deflate button, even while still in your mouth, it will exhaust air from the bc. You could also just take it out of your mouth for a second and give a yank on the hose to pull your shoulder dump. It's not like you have to dump air ever few feet throughout the ascent... I normally dump one or two times while ascending, so either of those methods work for me.

Just a few words of caution about using the deflate button,
while still in your mouth or breathing from it.
Depending on the model of octo+, the deflate button
is usually dual purpose. It not only is used to deflate
(dump air) but is also used to enable manual inflation.
On most fully integrated octo+ devices, pushing
the "deflate" button part way dumps air, but fully pressing
the button closes a valve and switches the air flow
to/from the mouth piece to the bladder instead of
the integrated 2nd stage regulator.
This is for manual inflation.

When dumping air, with the octo+ in your mouth
you need to be careful not to accidentally fully depress the
deflate button.
Not only will this not dump air but this can cause
you to accidentally breath air from the bladder, block
your exhale, or if the bladder is highly pressurized from
something like a rapid ascent, it can force air into your
mouth/lungs.

Its something that isn't a problem with training and
practice but something to be aware of.

I prefer to remove the mouthpiece while dumping.


--- bill

BSea
10-08-2007, 14:10
Could you still use the option of a octo on a necklace with a standard hose?
Sure you can. Most use a shorter hose (22" or 24", but I like to route mine under my arm, so I use a standard oct hose. This way I can donate either my primary or my octo. Or in other words, if a panicked AOA diver grabs either 1, either way it will work.

Scubastud16
10-08-2007, 14:46
I'm somewhat against this system. The reason is that which I'm sure people have stated before me...dumping air on an OOA ascent worries me. Sure, you could hit the bottom dump, but you have one hand on your buddy, and one hand on your inflator (or reaching up).

I'm switching to long hose, and that works just fine for me.

Danny

floater
10-08-2007, 14:56
Could you still use the option of a octo on a necklace with a standard hose?

I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but I just replaced my backup reg on my single tank rig with a Rite Source (air2) which I have on a necklace. I used a 22" standard hose with it + a LP reg hose to air2 adapter (adds 2" to hose). Also I needed an 18" corrugated hose to have full mobility when breathing the Rite Source (it came with a 16" corrugated hose).

Note: I just added the Rite Source and have not dived it yet.


This is what it looks like without the tank:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/s_rig1.jpg

The LP reg hose with adapter is 24". It may be that a 20" LP hose + adapter would have sufficed.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/s_rig2.jpg

ScubaToys Larry
10-08-2007, 14:59
A picture is always worth 1000 words... so thanks for sharing the 2000 words!

cutter77
10-08-2007, 15:01
Thank you, Larry. I have a Zeagle Zena with octo/inflator. I only have 25 dives, but I am very comfortable with it. When Boris42 got his gear, he opted for the same setup. Having a dive buddy with the same gear is certainly convenient. I have had other "insta-buddies" look at it really strange but they seem to relax when they realize they will be breathing out of my primary in a OOA situation. There is no fumbling required - from my mouth to theirs. I know exactly where my inflator hose is - my hand goes there without thinking.

My buddy and I periodically do drills with my Octo+ and I like the "immediate access" to the inflator button, it's second nature because I handle it so much. Reassuring in case of a real emergency.

blue37
10-08-2007, 16:37
Sorry for the confusion... I guess I was off topic on the alt air octo... my question was concerning the technical setup... octo on necklace with a longer hose for the primary... my question was could you use a regular hose for the primary... I just like the setup for the octo on the necklace vs. on a D-ring.

BSea
10-08-2007, 16:56
Sorry for the confusion... I guess I was off topic on the alt air octo... my question was concerning the technical setup... octo on necklace with a longer hose for the primary... my question was could you use a regular hose for the primary... I just like the setup for the octo on the necklace vs. on a D-ring.
Sure you can. I use a standard octo length hose for my safe 2nd. That way I can route it under my arm. (see my earlier post). Use whatever you want for your primary hose. 7', 5' or standard.

blue37
10-08-2007, 21:05
Thanks BSea...

Exactly what I'm looking for... came across a description and picture of the long hose set up on the technical forum... I really like that setup.
thanks for the info.

kyfriedchipper
10-09-2007, 00:01
Thought about it - then decided against. Too much effort in trying to dump air, then clear the reg, then breathe, keep your buddy calm, repeat. Seems easier to just hand over your main or your octo, grab onto each other and ascend.

rfreddo
10-09-2007, 09:55
Could you still use the option of a octo on a necklace with a standard hose?

I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but I just replaced my backup reg on my single tank rig with a Rite Source (air2) which I have on a necklace. I used a 22" standard hose with it + a LP reg hose to air2 adapter (adds 2" to hose). Also I needed an 18" corrugated hose to have full mobility when breathing the Rite Source (it came with a 16" corrugated hose).

Note: I just added the Rite Source and have not dived it yet.


This is what it looks like without the tank:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/s_rig1.jpg

The LP reg hose with adapter is 24". It may be that a 20" LP hose + adapter would have sufficed.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/s_rig2.jpg

Floater - Let us know your thoughts after you dive the Rite Source. It looks like you may have a solution another problem I've notice with my Octo-Z, that being that the extra weight realy causes the inflator hose to dangle. The necklace may be just the solution. Thanks for posting.

charlesml3
10-09-2007, 10:17
Too much effort in trying to dump air, then clear the reg, then breathe

That, or just pull the string on your shoulder dump...

rfreddo
10-09-2007, 10:41
Unfortunately, not all BCD's (like the Zeagle Brigade) have a right shoulder dump. But, you can, as Larry pointed out in an earlier post, pull the inflator hose assuming the BCD has that feature.

floater
10-09-2007, 10:53
Could you still use the option of a octo on a necklace with a standard hose?

I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but I just replaced my backup reg on my single tank rig with a Rite Source (air2) which I have on a necklace. I used a 22" standard hose with it + a LP reg hose to air2 adapter (adds 2" to hose). Also I needed an 18" corrugated hose to have full mobility when breathing the Rite Source (it came with a 16" corrugated hose).

Note: I just added the Rite Source and have not dived it yet.


This is what it looks like without the tank:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/s_rig1.jpg

The LP reg hose with adapter is 24". It may be that a 20" LP hose + adapter would have sufficed.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/s_rig2.jpg

Floater - Let us know your thoughts after you dive the Rite Source. It looks like you may have a solution another problem I've notice with my Octo-Z, that being that the extra weight realy causes the inflator hose to dangle. The necklace may be just the solution. Thanks for posting.

Will do, though it may be a while since I currently dive mostly doubles in order not to have to deal with ponies and such which NJ boats often require with single tank rigs.

texdiveguy
10-09-2007, 11:06
Not a fan of the 'combo' units. IMO

Splitlip
10-11-2007, 20:53
Floater:
Interesting..
I assume at depth you dump mostly from your OPV.
Any issues dumping air from the DR source with your primary in your mouth? (Edit: oops. Just reread your post and saw you have not dived it.) I am not wasting all my typing. Answer when you can:smiley36:.

I use a 40" w/ swivel for my primary but have my alternate necklaced. I was seriousely debating going back to my SS1. Never considered a necklace.
Do you have a standard elbo?
With the SS1 I use a 19" corrugted hose. I have used DR pull dump elbo with this configuration, but was always a little concerned about stressing the connection on my OXY razor which is bladderless. Have not used it with my Mach V which has a shell. I don't if that makes a difference.



Could you still use the option of a octo on a necklace with a standard hose?

I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but I just replaced my backup reg on my single tank rig with a Rite Source (air2) which I have on a necklace. I used a 22" standard hose with it + a LP reg hose to air2 adapter (adds 2" to hose). Also I needed an 18" corrugated hose to have full mobility when breathing the Rite Source (it came with a 16" corrugated hose).

Note: I just added the Rite Source and have not dived it yet.


This is what it looks like without the tank:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/s_rig1.jpg

The LP reg hose with adapter is 24". It may be that a 20" LP hose + adapter would have sufficed.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/s_rig2.jpg

floater
10-12-2007, 06:11
Floater:
Interesting..
I assume at depth you dump mostly from your OPV.
Any issues dumping air from the DR source with your primary in your mouth? (Edit: oops. Just reread your post and saw you have not dived it.) I am not wasting all my typing. Answer when you can.

I use a 40" w/ swivel for my primary but have my alternate necklaced. I was seriousely debating going back to my SS1. Never considered a necklace.
Do you have a standard elbo?
With the SS1 I use a 19" corrugted hose. I have used DR pull dump elbo with this configuration, but was always a little concerned about stressing the connection on my OXY razor which is bladderless. Have not used it with my Mach V which has a shell. I don't if that makes a difference.

Yes, standard elbow. Never tried anything else, nor have I felt a need for anything else. I use the OPV pretty much for all venting.

As for dumping air from the Rite-Source, the way I see it my previous inflators have been attached with a bungee loop to the shoulder d-ring so it's not that different than having the Rite-Source attached on a necklace in terms of inflator (Rite Source) mobility. Plus I'm using relatively thin surgical tubing for the necklace to have maximal elasticity. It's zip tied in the pic, but I may use the mouthpiece-in-loop method in the future so that in the worst case scenario I could just pull the Rite-Source off the loop.

The only potential complication I could see is if I had to donate my primary, breathe off the Rite-Source and then the buddy or someone else forced me to do a vertical ascent so that I had to vent and breathe from the Rite-Source during the same ascent, but even if simultaneous action proved difficult I could just take the Rite-Source out of my mouth and lift it higher every now and then to dump gas.

dludwig
10-12-2007, 19:53
I prefer a octo/inflator combo as it means one less hose to worry about. My left hand is always close to it. :smiley20:

Aussie
10-13-2007, 10:24
What is the big issue with loosing one hose????

Its going to be a pain in the backside trying to dump air with a combo around your neck on a necklace.

I prefer a good reg around my neck on a necklace. Good reg like the same as my primary. I have the Zeagle Zx second stage on both my primary and secondary (occy) as I know that they breath really well at any depth which is very important in a OOA situation.

Combos are a pain to service, most of them do not breath as well as a good second stage and all this just to loose one hose?


Can someone give me a good reason to loose one hose?

Aussie

ertechsg
10-13-2007, 11:01
What is the big issue with loosing one hose????

Its going to be a pain in the backside trying to dump air with a combo around your neck on a necklace.

I prefer a good reg around my neck on a necklace. Good reg like the same as my primary. I have the Zeagle Zx second stage on both my primary and secondary (occy) as I know that they breath really well at any depth which is very important in a OOA situation.

Combos are a pain to service, most of them do not breath as well as a good second stage and all this just to loose one hose?


Can someone give me a good reason to loose one hose?

Aussie
Because it's mine and I can do with as I want. If you run in to that many OOA's I would quit dive with those people

Aussie
10-13-2007, 11:11
What is the big issue with loosing one hose????

Its going to be a pain in the backside trying to dump air with a combo around your neck on a necklace.

I prefer a good reg around my neck on a necklace. Good reg like the same as my primary. I have the Zeagle Zx second stage on both my primary and secondary (occy) as I know that they breath really well at any depth which is very important in a OOA situation.

Combos are a pain to service, most of them do not breath as well as a good second stage and all this just to loose one hose?


Can someone give me a good reason to loose one hose?

Aussie
Because it's mine and I can do with as I want. If you run in to that many OOA's I would quit dive with those people

That the only good reason you have?

Aussie

ertechsg
10-13-2007, 11:27
I know you thought I spend my time giving some one who doesn't like them(which is fine) a good reason no matter what I tell you it's not going to change your mind and viceversa. So yes thats the best reason I will give you.

rfreddo
10-13-2007, 12:35
Have to say that I agree with ertechsg on this one. My gear is configured the way I like it for MY convenience - not the hopefully never to be encountered OOA diver. I like one less hose to coil in the reg bag and one less thing to clip to my BC so that it's there when - if - an absent minded diver should happen to need it. My inflator's already there in the same spot. Bottom line, it's the way I like it. That's all that matters. I assume my configuration will be the best configuration you've ever seen if you happen to approach me with saucer eyes and a zeroed out SPG at 100ft. Let's talk about the pros and cons then!

telmnstr
10-13-2007, 16:20
I rock a Zeagle combo unit. It came with the equipment I bought second hand some time ago. I keep meaning to get a yellow regulator and hose and such, but haven't gotten around to it. I picked up a second quick disconnect for the Zeagle connector so I can swap regulator sets on my BC.

Good:
Single hose.
Better profile (less to get snagged)
It's really easy to grab! It's generally easy to find.

Not so good:

The controls are a bit odd, the button setup could be confusing.

It's non-standard, so you have to explain to buddies, if someone was to need to orally inflate in an emergency or something, it might be confusing.

The connector is not the same as the standard BC quick disconnect. Can make swapping gear around difficult.

If you use it, your ability to move your head is restricted due to the two hoses. It limits your movement.

Aussie
10-13-2007, 20:50
I know you thought I spend my time giving some one who doesn't like them(which is fine) a good reason no matter what I tell you it's not going to change your mind and viceversa. So yes thats the best reason I will give you.

No it would not change my mind in the matter but it might provide some information for someone who is new to the sport to take on board.
Discusions are important in forums and giving both sides of the story is required.
"Because its mine and I can do with what I want" offers no information to a newby so I am taking my bat and ball and going home.

Aussie

floater
10-13-2007, 20:57
What is the big issue with loosing one hose????

Its going to be a pain in the backside trying to dump air with a combo around your neck on a necklace.

I prefer a good reg around my neck on a necklace. Good reg like the same as my primary. I have the Zeagle Zx second stage on both my primary and secondary (occy) as I know that they breath really well at any depth which is very important in a OOA situation.

Combos are a pain to service, most of them do not breath as well as a good second stage and all this just to loose one hose?


Can someone give me a good reason to loose one hose?

Aussie

All else equal one hose is better than two. Now the real argument you put forth above is that all else is not equal; pain to vent with, inferior performance (at depth), pain to service. Well that may be, I have yet to try my new Rite Source, but the service manual (free) and parts are available from diveriteexpress. I doubt it'll be any more difficult to dump than my current inflator that I keep on a bungee loop by the left chest d-ring per DIR and while it may breathe worse than my primary I don't expect having to breathe it much, nor for very long and generally not at depth since it's on my single tank rig. So yeah, while all else it not equal it appears equal enough to me that I was willing to try this setup to loose a hose and to have one less thing to think about (attaching inflator to bungee loop).

Aussie
10-13-2007, 21:23
By all means try your setup. But I would prefer a better breathing secondary and fool proof power inflator over loosing one hose and one less thing to think about.

What happens if your Rite source inflator button jams on? You disconnect your lp hose from it and now you have no secondary also.

Now you loose one hose but gained one more important thing to think about.

Aussie

divermike49
10-13-2007, 21:54
I did a couple of dives today with 3 second stages, because of a rental BCD with an air2 as well as my primary and octo. I tried breathing from all three, and the air2 was harder to breathe than the others. I also could only look left because of the shorter hose. I supose for emergency use it is good enough, plus it is always close and in front of you while when my octo came loose and I had to follow the hose to find it.

danielh03
10-13-2007, 23:06
ANDI setup's are a little different from PADI, and all the others. Your octo runs off your left side, and your primary is on the right. You never give up your primary. The octo is secured to the right side of your chest, the hose running from under your left arm. That way, you have a 40" hose, and you can keep your buddy at arms length during an OOA emergency. With it wraped around your body like that, it also stays out of your way.

floater
11-05-2007, 14:01
Floater - Let us know your thoughts after you dive the Rite Source. It looks like you may have a solution another problem I've notice with my Octo-Z, that being that the extra weight realy causes the inflator hose to dangle. The necklace may be just the solution. Thanks for posting.

I did my first 3 dives with the Rite Source (RS) on a necklace. I was using my new Mach V razor wing which was super easy to rear dump, so I didn't need to use the RS to vent air.

Here are some pics I took before returning the tanks. I'm turning my head all the way to the right below, and the 18" corrugated hose with 22" LP hose + 2" adapter are just about right for me. I think 18 or 19" should work fine for most people:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/rite_source_rig16_max_turn.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/rite_source_rig13_max_turn.jpg

Inflating with it was super easy (even with 5mm gloves) since it just sits under my chin, flat against my chest, so I can just press the button with either hand as is (no need to hold it or grab it):

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/rite_source_rig17_inflate.jpg

I can pull it up pretty high while on the necklace to vent from it:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/rite_source_rig19_deflate_small.jpg

Or I can just pull it off the necklace if I really need to for some reason:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/rite_source_rig20_deflate_off_neckl.jpg

I tried that underwater and it took me about a minute or two to put it back into the necklace, though that necessitated taking the necklace off temporarily.

Here's how the rig looks without me with a DR first and primary, Oxy Mach V razor 30, DSS medium backplate:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/rite_source_rig1.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/single%20tank%20rig/rite_source_rig2.jpg

The tank is probably a little too low in those pics, but in the past I've hit my head on the first stage so I've was a little paranoid about that. Next time I'll put it higher up.

By the way, I was using my steel plate and drysuit when actually diving this, whereas here I'm using my (warm water) Kydex plate and just a regular fleece sweater, but I think you get the idea.

As to negatives:

- the RS started to freeflow on the surface when I breathed it and I had to hit the inflate button to stop it. This behavior stopped as soon as we descended, and didn't reoccur even on the surface afterwards.

- I tried it at about 80 or 90 feet and it did breathe worse than my balanced DR primary, but it was still fine.

- I'd like to be able to take be able to just pop it off the corrugated hose for easy cleaning like I do with my other second stages.

Puffer Fish
11-05-2007, 15:34
Interesting way to use one Floater... not seen that done before...Looks like it would work..although in my case, I might want to take the knife off the hose first...

BuzzF117
11-10-2007, 19:03
I prefer to use an integrated octo i.e. Air2. This is because of being blind in the left eye I have to rely on touch for part of my gear and I already use my inflator without looking for it and I can easily find it so having the integrated octo is an easy find especially since an OOA diver may not always go for your spare octo and try and take the reg out of your mouth if they are in bad shape I can find my inflator/octo without looking or doing a hand sweep to find it. My LDS was great in offering advice on how to setup my gear I have thought about adding the extra octo just for added redundancy.

Splitlip
11-10-2007, 19:14
Thanks Floater.
Most informative, as always.

txmntman
11-12-2007, 16:13
I have one and like it. It keeps the rig simpler (is that a word?) with one less hose. Like all gear, you have to practice with it. Above all, you must make sure your dive buddy understands your equipment. You must go over the fact that you have an air2 PRIOR to the dive so that he/she understands that if he/she has an out of air emergancy, you will donate your primary and use the air2.

charlesml3
11-13-2007, 09:48
as I know that they breath really well at any depth which is very important in a OOA situation.

Combos are a pain to service, most of them do not breath as well as a good second stage and all this just to loose one hose?


This argument really isn't holding water. In an OOA situation, nobody cares how well the secondary breathes. You're headed up. The secondary air source is keeping you alive. Who cares if it's not as smooth as your primary?

I really don't understand the service point. I've never heard Larry or anyone at my LDS say that octo/inflators are a pain to service.

-Charles

rfreddo
11-13-2007, 12:41
I switched over to my Octo-Z this weekend at about 90' just to give it a try. Breathing difference between that and my Tusa RS-130 was minimal. Certainly well beyond acceptable in an emergency situation.