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techgnostic
07-16-2007, 18:48
Any preferences/diss-es to that over a velcro linkto a BC?

Judestudio
07-16-2007, 19:21
Any preferences/diss-es to that over a velcro linkto a BC?
I'm for it. I donate my primary to my OOA buddy and I'll be the one using the octo. During the split second change over + panic, it make total sense to have the octo hanging right under my chin, exactly where I need it, rather than looking down and fetch it from down below my BC. Plus, having a short hose under the chin makes things a lot easier and one less dangling hose.

You can make your own, but I didn't bother, I bought one (http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=MantaRegulatorNecklace) from Joe/Larry.

techgnostic
07-16-2007, 19:54
Thanks, I wanted to get some first hand knowledge before I plunked down for a new piece of gear.
<DIV>Yeah, I was eyeing their's...but they show a black one and blue one in the photo, but there isn't a color option on the page...is it random?</DIV>

przeor
07-16-2007, 20:16
I wouldn't dive without one anymore... that said- we made ours out of some shock cord- probably cost us about $1.

frankc420
07-16-2007, 20:18
Thanks, I wanted to get some first hand knowledge before I plunked down for a new piece of gear.
<div>Yeah, I was eyeing their's...but they show a black one and blue one in the photo, but there isn't a color option on the page...is it random?</div>

I bought one of the necklaces from them and like it alot, the octo is right under your chin.

As far as the colors go, when I was at ST a little while back I saw the necklaces in the tech section, they only had black from what I remember. That is strange thought that they chose a blue one for the picture! smileys/smiley4.gif

techgnostic
07-16-2007, 20:18
I wouldn't dive without one anymore... that said- we made ours out of some shock cord- probably cost us about $1.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I am very anti-shock cord, so I'd rathertoss the buckage at our hosts. </DIV>

Judestudio
07-16-2007, 20:20
Thanks, I wanted to get some first hand knowledge before I plunked down for a new piece of gear.
<div>Yeah, I was eyeing their's...but they show a black one and blue one in the photo, but there isn't a color option on the page...is it random?
I emailed my order with a note on the side of the color I wanted, and I got it. If you're ordering via the website, just put in the notes section I guess.

Yea, making your own would cost near to nothing, I know of people who made them out of bungy cords and surgical tubings. I just didn't bother. The Manta one is very rugged and looks like it'll last quite a while.
</div>

techgnostic
07-16-2007, 20:20
As far as the colors go, when I was at ST a little while back I saw the necklaces in the tech section, they only had black from what I remember. That is strange thought that they chose a blue one for the picture! smileys/smiley4.gif

<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Kewl, I'll assume black is the color of choice (it's what I'd have chosen anyway).</DIV>

techgnostic
07-16-2007, 20:24
I emailed my order with a note on the side of the color I wanted, and I got it. If you're ordering via the website, just put in the notes section I guess.

Yea, making your own would cost near to nothing, I know of people who made them out of bungy cords and surgical tubings. I just didn't bother. The Manta one is very rugged and looks like it'll last quite a while.

<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Good suggestion. It looked pretty bombproof to me as well.</DIV>

Judestudio
07-16-2007, 20:33
Kewl, I'll assume black is the color of choice (it's what I'd have chosen anyway).
Yea, I asked for a black and got a black...LOL Maybe they only had black, who knows. I think black is the one that's gonna stay in its original color for the longest. Imagine what the "pink" and "yellow" is gonna look like after washing with saltwater multiple times....hm.m..

techgnostic
07-16-2007, 20:38
Imagine what the "pink" and "yellow" is gonna look like after washing with saltwater multiple times....hm.m..

<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>pepto bismol and butter would be my guess...not the 'gad about town' image I want to be spreading.</DIV>

cummings66
07-16-2007, 22:00
I made mine out of bungee cord, more secure.

Lucky(AR)
07-16-2007, 22:10
ws wandering about them too ?

cummings66
07-16-2007, 23:35
I have a buddy that bought the reg holder talked about above and I got to try it out as well. Initially I thought it worked slick as snot, but then I discovered you can pull your reg out of it pretty easy and that's not something you want to discover happened after you give away your primary.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>So my buddy and I both decided that it's a neat idea, but it's not for us.</DIV>

techgnostic
07-16-2007, 23:38
I have a buddy that bought the reg holder talked about above and I got to try it out as well. Initially I thought it worked slick as snot, but then I discovered you can pull your reg out of it pretty easy and that's not something you want to discover happened after you give away your primary.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>So my buddy and I both decided that it's a neat idea, but it's not for us.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>How 'easily'?</DIV>

BSea
07-16-2007, 23:40
I have a buddy that bought the reg holder talked about above and I got to try it out as well. Initially I thought it worked slick as snot, but then I discovered you can pull your reg out of it pretty easy and that's not something you want to discover happened after you give away your primary.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>So my buddy and I both decided that it's a neat idea, but it's not for us.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>That's why a bungy necklace works better. It won't come out unless you want it to. I've tried several ways to secure an octo over the years, and the bungy necklace is hands down the best way for me.</DIV>

techgnostic
07-16-2007, 23:46
That's why a bungy necklace works better. It won't come out unless you want it to. I've tried several ways to secure an octo over the years, and the bungy necklace is hands down the best way for me.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Perhaps you could elaborate (online, or off) on how it is constructed...I'm not really picturing how itcould beall that different then the Manta version.</DIV>

przeor
07-17-2007, 03:25
I wouldn't dive without one anymore... that said- we made ours out of some shock cord- probably cost us about $1.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I am very anti-shock cord, so I'd rathertoss the buckage at our hosts. </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I've gotta know why you're anti-shock cord? There has to be a story behind it...</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>As far as how to rig it, some folks use a piece of shock cord held under a zip tie on the octo mouthpiece. I actually prefer to make a seperate tight loop over the mouthpice with shock cord holding it around my neck. That way there is no risk of the mouthpiece falling of if I pull the octo up. The manta seems pretty good, but I'd be worried i would be too long or short for me specifically and that folks are saying it's a little loose.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>

Judestudio
07-17-2007, 06:02
Here's a guide if you wanna make your ownsmileys/smiley2.gif:

http://dir-diver.com/en/equipment/backup_reg.html

cummings66
07-17-2007, 07:32
As to how easy it comes loose, grab it and tug on it and it's loose. I don't know in terms of foot lbs, but it easily dislodged. For example if a diver grabbed it and pulledI'dcompare the force required tothose ball's you can put your second into and pull it free when needed.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>The link is absolutely perfect.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>My buddy said it best, it's a solution in search of a problem.</DIV>

BSea
07-17-2007, 07:57
That's why a bungy necklace works better. It won't come out unless you want it to. I've tried several ways to secure an octo over the years, and the bungy necklace is hands down the best way for me.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Perhaps you could elaborate (online, or off) on how it is constructed...I'm not really picturing how itcould beall that different then the Manta version.</DIV>
<DIV>The 1 I use has 2 slip knots that form a loop. Just put the mouthpiece through the loop and tighten the loop as much as needed using the slip knots. You can make the necklace part as long or as short as you like. I know it's hard to visualize, but if you look on-line you should be able to see how to make 1. My camera needs new batteries, otherwise I'd post a picture for you.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I hope this helps.</DIV>

techgnostic
07-17-2007, 09:25
I've gotta know why you're anti-shock cord? There has to be a story behind it...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>The manta seems pretty good, but I'd be worried i would be too long or short for me specifically and that folks are saying it's a little loose.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>In that instance, shock cord would work (there isn't any load on it). If the manta included a size dimension it might save people to trouble then.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>My beef with shock cord under load is that it is a system doomed to failure, just a matter of how and when: </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>* It stretches and freys over time, and breaks at when you need it most (at the moment of max load - since rope usually isn't dynamically loaded, it uses physics to its advantage, not the other way around). </DIV>
<DIV>*Shock cord's stretch characteristic makes for impercise load balancing (things usually shift - something that almost never happens with rope).</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>* Not to mention dangerous. (No one lost an eye in a knot tying accident! I have met someone who did using shock cord.)</DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Can you tell I'm also a rock climber with a love for rope and knots?</DIV>

techgnostic
07-17-2007, 09:27
The 1 I use has 2 slip knots that form a loop. Just put the mouthpiece through the loop and tighten the loop as much as needed using the slip knots. You can make the necklace part as long or as short as you like. I know it's hard to visualize, but if you look on-line you should be able to see how to make 1. My camera needs new batteries, otherwise I'd post a picture for you.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I hope this helps.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>It does help. Thank you. I can visualize it just fine. It is like a modified Fisherman's knot.</DIV>

medic001918
07-17-2007, 11:13
Add one more vote for the necklaced octo. I won't give mine up either. I use the bungee cord since I set mine up before the manta's were available. Kristen uses the manta though. I like it and it works well. I might have to change mine over one of these days. It's just nice to always know where my octo is, and to know that it can't come loose and drag anywhere.
<DIV>Shane</DIV>

techgnostic
07-17-2007, 12:09
Add one more vote for the necklaced octo.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>


Muchas...necklace is way out in front at this time.</DIV>

Judestudio
07-17-2007, 15:52
I'm bad at any sort of hand crafting, including tying a knot. Better to keep things "simple" and buy a Manta's one....for me, it's less likely to "fail" than me making my own. It'll be another story if you're good at making stuff smileys/smiley2.gif

cummings66
07-17-2007, 18:24
The bungee loop is so easy to do, andit's under no load at all almost all the time so it will last forever. You size the loop to get the second where you want it naturally, then you will do one of three things. One you'll clip off the old plastic tie and replace it with a new one with the bungee under it (knot the ends so it can't slip out) and tighten it, or two you place another plastic wire tie around the reg and place the ends under it. Three you could form a slip know that traps the regulator in it.

plot
07-17-2007, 18:46
How long of an octo hose do you guys use for the manta? I got the necklace awhile back with full intentions of switching out my hoses, but I've never gotten around to it.

przeor
07-17-2007, 20:48
I would say something in the 24" range depending on your set-up.

mwhities
07-17-2007, 21:46
I just took pictures of my bungee setup, I'll post pictures in a minute.

I went with the shock cord that 3/16ths.

Michael

techgnostic
07-17-2007, 22:14
I'm bad at any sort of hand crafting, including tying a knot. Better to keep things "simple" and buy a Manta's one....for me, it's less likely to "fail" than me making my own. It'll be another story if you're good at making stuff smileys/smiley2.gif

<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>try this site, Grog rocks:</DIV>
<DIV>http://www.animatedknots.com/indexboating.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&amp;Website=ww w.animatedknots.com (http://www.animatedknots.com/indexboating.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com)</DIV>

techgnostic
07-17-2007, 22:15
I have the Manta and it's OK but I'm thinking of replacing it with a simple bungee loop. One problem I have with the manta is it's rather thick and a bit difficult to breath the reg with it on.


<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I guess the thickness lends to its bombproof quality, not its usability.</DIV>

techgnostic
07-17-2007, 22:18
The bungee loop is so easy to do, andit's under no load at all almost all the time so it will last forever. You size the loop to get the second where you want it naturally, then you will do one of three things. One you'll clip off the old plastic tie and replace it with a new one with the bungee under it (knot the ends so it can't slip out) and tighten it, or two you place another plastic wire tie around the reg and place the ends under it. Three you could form a slip know that traps the regulator in it.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I've already got a nifty little knot in mind. If you are going to take the time make it, might as well make it yours.</DIV>

techgnostic
07-17-2007, 22:21
I threw in the manta version in on an impulse buy when I purchased some hoses. It has gone into my save a dive kit.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Perhaps you could modify it to hold drinks for after-dive?</DIV>

mwhities
07-17-2007, 22:39
http://mwhities.dirdivers.com/index.php?level=album&amp;id=12 (http://mwhities.dirdivers.com/index.php?level=album&id=12)

This is my bungee setup.

I plan to do it again and in steps like I did with my other gear.

Michael

techgnostic
07-17-2007, 22:45
http://mwhities.dirdivers.com/index.php?level=album&amp;id=12 (http://mwhities.dirdivers.com/index.php?level=album&id=12)

This is my bungee setup.

I plan to do it again and in steps like I did with my other gear.

Michael

<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Thank you very, very much. Clean, effective...that foul demon shock cord has found it's way back into my life...blast!</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>:)</DIV>

mwhities
07-17-2007, 22:51
You are welcome. I need to redo the zip tie so the "knot" is underneath the mouth piece. That was my first attempt at it.

I also globbed a bunch of super glue on the bungee knots after I tied them. Not sure if it will stand up to it for a long time but, I figured it'd help the knots to NOT come lose. :)

As I stated earlier, I'll redo the bungee from scratch and then take "step" pictures of the whole process. Keep an eye out for updates.

Michael

przeor
07-18-2007, 00:23
I'm not a huge fan of running my shock cord under the zip tie holding my mouthpiece on. I've seen them get tugged off accidently, and while not the end of the world, no mouthpiece isn't idea. I prefer something like this..
<DIV>The 1 I use has 2 slip knots that form a loop. Just put the mouthpiece through the loop and tighten the loop as much as needed using the slip knots. You can make the necklace part as long or as short as you like. I know it's hard to visualize, but if you look on-line you should be able to see how to make 1. </DIV>

Judestudio
07-18-2007, 01:34
http://mwhities.dirdivers.com/index.php?level=album&amp;id=12 (http://mwhities.dirdivers.com/index.php?level=album&id=12)

This is my bungee setup.

I plan to do it again and in steps like I did with my other gear.

Michael


Great photos, Michael. So what kind of knot is that? Anything you need to do to make sure the knots don't come loose?

mwhities
07-18-2007, 08:11
Thanks.

It's just a regular over hand knot. Nothing special. All you need to do it tie it and PULL all you can on it. I think the "squeeze" of the bungee will keep it tied. I added super glue on it to help the outside material from fraying and hopefully to not allow the knot to untie it's self.

Michael

mwhities
07-18-2007, 10:12
I understand that... but, if it's my dive buddy, we will have a discussion about what reg to grab if he does go OOG if I don't notice. (I better be right there to help.)

If it's someone else's dive buddy, well, I'll try to get them to take my primary. Then I'll have a talk with his dive buddy.

Michael

awap
07-18-2007, 10:56
I understand that... but, if it's my dive buddy, we will have a discussion about what reg to grab if he does go OOG if I don't notice. (I better be right there to help.)

If it's someone else's dive buddy, well, I'll try to get them to take my primary. Then I'll have a talk with his dive buddy.

Michael

<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>In a recreational diving context, it is best to be prepared to donate which ever regulator an OOA diver might decide they want. If the zip tie holding the mouthpiece is also holding the necklace, the mouthpiece is liable to be lost inthe wrestling match and then the problems will grow.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I always explain that an OOA diver is we;lcome to any regulator I have including my pony if I'm carrying one. But I prefer to donate and will always offermy primary as that is clearly a working 2nd.</DIV>

fire diver
07-18-2007, 12:38
I wouldn't dive without one anymore... that said- we made ours out of some shock cord- probably cost us about $1.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Same for me. I wouldn't have it any other way.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>FD</DIV>

CompuDude
07-18-2007, 22:42
I vote the bungee method as well. The manta necklaces are pretty, but too slick, IMO... too easy to pull out the regs.

There needs to be a balance. You don't want it to be easy to pull the reg out or have it pop out too easily, OTOH, you don't want it to get caught on something and NOT pop come out if you pull hard enough, such that you end up ripping off the mouthpiece. That's why I'm not a huge fan of the zip tie method, although there are certainly many proponents of each.

The knot I prefer is a double fisherman's knot slipped around the mouthpiece and pulled tight. It'll come off if you pull hard enough (a good thing) but is quite secure for normal use (also a good thing). I like 3/16 bungee for anything I want to use bungee on, unless it's just way too big. Nice, sturdy stuff. I bought a 100' roll on eBay for $10.

Knot Tying Directions (http://www.animatedknots.com/doublefishermansrescue/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com)

http://kalani.net/scuba/divegear/dir/Thumb_IMG_0232.JPGhttp://kalani.net/scuba/divegear/dir/Thumb_IMG_0233.JPG

Judestudio
07-18-2007, 22:51
I vote the bungee method as well. The manta necklaces are pretty, but too slick, IMO... too easy to pull out the regs.

There needs to be a balance. You don't want it to be easy to pull the reg out or have it pop out too easily, OTOH, you don't want it to get caught on something and NOT pop come out if you pull hard enough, such that you end up ripping off the mouthpiece. That's why I'm not a huge fan of the zip tie method, although there are certainly many proponents of each.

The knot I prefer is a double fisherman's knot slipped around the mouthpiece and pulled tight. It'll come off if you pull hard enough (a good thing) but is quite secure for normal use (also a good thing). I like 3/16 bungee for anything I want to use bungee on, unless it's just way too big. Nice, sturdy stuff. I bought a 100' roll on eBay for $10.

Knot Tying Directions (http://www.animatedknots.com/doublefishermansrescue/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com)


Wow, very cool!! Thanks for the link and pics!!!

frankc420
07-18-2007, 22:53
...

Knot Tying Directions (http://www.animatedknots.com/doublefishermansrescue/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com)




Is it just me or does that link have broken images?

Edit: They are only broken in Firefox... strange!

Judestudio
07-18-2007, 22:57
No, I can see them alright smileys/smiley20.gif
Very cool site indeed.


EDIT: I'm using Firefox

Joew
07-18-2007, 22:58
Wow, $10 for 100' is pretty cheap. I think I'll try to get myself a roll off eBay.

mwhities
07-18-2007, 23:01
If the zip tie holding the mouthpiece is also holding the necklace, the mouthpiece is liable to be lost inthe wrestling match and then the problems will grow.


That's why they created knives.. ;)

Michael

mwhities
07-18-2007, 23:02
Wow, $10 for 100' is pretty cheap. I think I'll try to get myself a roll off eBay.

Exactly what I did. :)

http://mwhities.dirdivers.com/index.php?level=picture&amp;id=143 (http://mwhities.dirdivers.com/index.php?level=picture&id=143)

Hit next too.

Michael

techgnostic
07-19-2007, 01:20
Knot Tying Directions (http://www.animatedknots.com/doublefishermansrescue/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com)

<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I LOVE grog's site. Far and away the best knot tying site ever.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>He turned my butterfly into an ALPINE butterfly...just like that!</DIV>

techgnostic
07-19-2007, 01:23
If the zip tie holding the mouthpiece is also holding the necklace, the mouthpiece is liable to be lost inthe wrestling match and then the problems will grow.

That's why they created knives.. ;)

Michael

<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I suspect a knife would settle down most OOA divers. Once you get rid of that last little bit trapped in the lungs, they will be nice and placid. :p</DIV>

techgnostic
07-19-2007, 01:26
I threw in the manta version in on an impulse buy when I purchased some hoses. It has gone into my save a dive kit.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Perhaps you could modify it to hold drinks for after-dive?</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>You know, I think I could....</DIV>
<DIV>The drink holder will work. But now I have no backup necklace. But I have more bungee...</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Once you finish the design, sell it to ST, so they can move all the Manta back stock that will be the result of this thread. Opps.</DIV>

Judestudio
07-19-2007, 01:30
I think the Manta one still has its place....for people that don't bother making their own, like I did in the first place.

techgnostic
07-19-2007, 18:29
I think the Manta one still has its place....for people that don't bother making their own, like I did in the first place.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Point taken...though they have to be just the right size according to some of the previous posts.</DIV>

mwhities
07-19-2007, 20:53
I meant to add that too. So I have an over hand knot, flame and squish and super glue. :)

Michael

techgnostic
07-19-2007, 21:24
<DIV>I fear glues or solvents near my gear</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Coming from a climbing background, I don't even like storing technical gear in the presence of petrochemical fumes, much less direct application. But I suppose end sealing is fine as long as the residual/vapor dissapates before physical contact with the rest of the rig.</DIV>

cummings66
07-19-2007, 22:10
I just use the lighter trick and it's fine. Mines been on for over 1.5 years and absolutely no sign of deteriation at all. It's just like it was the day I melted the ends and knotted it.
<DIV></DIV>

mwhities
07-19-2007, 22:31
I made sure that all the glue was dry and not even tacky.

Thanks,

Michael

przeor
07-21-2007, 00:45
just a lighter for me as well- been on for almost two years no problemo!

techgnostic
07-21-2007, 01:38
When it comes to tricking out your own kit, this guy is da' bomb:
<DIV></DIV>http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtml
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>He's build a Victorian computer out of an old IBM.

CompuDude
07-21-2007, 07:17
When it comes to tricking out your own kit, this guy is da' bomb:
<div></div>http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtml
<div></div>
<div></div>He's build a Victorian computer out of an old IBM.
That's an impressive site. I'm trying to decide if those people have waaaaay too much time on their hands, or waaaay too much money, or both!

(Not that I wouldn't indulge myself if I had the means!)

fire diver
07-21-2007, 13:04
Here's what I did for my bungie necklace.... Tie a simple overhand knot inone end of the bungie, and pull it TIGHT. Form a loop of bungie (where your head would go through) and lay the flat, running end alongside the reg. Now take 2 SMALL zip ties (too small to go around the mouthpiece individually) and zip one into the other. Next, lay the knot on the opposite side from the running end, wrap the zip-ties, and"snug" down. Now you can open or close the bungie loop until it's just the right size for you. Mark the running end at the edge of the zip tie. Now take it off, and tie another overhand knot at the mark. Cut the tail off, tighten the zip ties and your done.
<DIV>This prevents the mouthpiece from pulling off with the necklace, and the small ties will break much easier than the flexi-cuffs used to attach a mouthpiece.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>FD</DIV>

techgnostic
07-22-2007, 22:47
Now take 2 SMALL zip ties (too small to go around the mouthpiece individually) and zip one into the other.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>...the small ties will break much easier than the flexi-cuffs used to attach a mouthpiece.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>So you are refering to small (short) and small (thin) ties.</DIV>