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Foo2
07-17-2007, 11:57
<DIV>Hey ya'll. I got an email forwarded to me from another diver who received it from undercurrent.org. Itappears to be a newsletter that lets you know about things going on in the diving world. One of the sections had this article in it and I was wondering what ya'll thought about it.</DIV>
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<DIV>FBI alert : The FBI thinks scuba terrorists might be planning nefarious activity and has asked the dive industry to turn in any individuals who request “specialty training, including odd inquiries that are inconsistent with recreational diving.” These may include: requests to dive in murky water or sewer pipes; requests to learn advanced skills associated with combat swimming, including use of rebreathers and diver propulsion vehicles, deep diving and extra navigation training; requests for advanced diver training by applicants from countries where diving is not a common recreational activity; training sponsored by religious organizations, cults, associations, or charitable agencies not normally associated with diving; paying cash for diving instruction; and refusal or reluctance to provide personal information.” Time magazine reports that the FBI described the advisory as routine and said it was not prompted by any threat. On a related note, look for our article about non-lethal underwater weapons to combat scuba-diving terrorists in our August issue.</DIV>
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<DIV>Foo2</DIV>

3rdEye
07-17-2007, 12:05
interesting....and not at all suprising

Liv7301
07-17-2007, 13:40
Or someone who wants to attach laser beams to their scooter?
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FishFood
07-17-2007, 14:02
training sponsored by religious organizations, cults, associations, or charitable agencies not normally associated with diving;
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<DIV>I love that. They won't come right out and say ISLAM. Instead they put "religious organizations". Now some good ol boy sotuerhn babptist are going to get tackled walking into the water smileys/smiley4.gif</DIV>

TxHockeyGuy
07-17-2007, 14:37
<div>requests to dive in murky water - We have nothing else here
diver propulsion vehicles - A favorite AOW specialty
deep diving - A required AOW specialty
extra navigation training - A required AOW specialty
requests for advanced diver training by applicants from countries where diving is not a common recreational activity - Sure isn't common down in Texas, although we're not our own country, yet.
paying cash for diving instruction - Ah, I think I paid cash for my rescue training
and refusal or reluctance to provide personal information - I am always reluctant to provide personal information

Crap, I hit on about half of what they're supposedly looking for.

For those not aware PADI, SSI, and NAUI have already turned diving records over to the FBI. There was no warrant, they simply handed all your personal information right over. Some say they still do this on a yearly basis but I haven't found a reliable enough source to say that's true.

http://www.eff.org/Censorship/Terrorism_militias/patriot-act-II-analysis.php
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Fideaux
07-17-2007, 15:23
<DIV>For those not aware PADI, SSI, and NAUI have already turned diving records over to the FBI. There was no warrant, they simply handed all your personal information right over. Some say they still do this on a yearly basis but I haven't found a reliable enough source to say that's true.
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<DIV>The request by the FBI was made several years ago for the information after the failure of recognizing the pilot error. </DIV>
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<DIV>Bruce</DIV>

jacewindu
07-17-2007, 16:27
So we should be leery of anyone wanting to learn how to descend, but not to ascend?





oooooh... good one! hahasmileys/smiley36.gif

cummings66
07-17-2007, 17:55
So many things I do put me on those lists, they probably have a glossy 8x10 of me on the wall by now.
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Cichlid
07-17-2007, 18:19
Yeah, I read something about this happening here in AZ.



FBI issues warning at Valley Scuba Shops

By Anne Yeager

ABC15.com





The next time you buy scuba lessons, you may be asked a few more
questions than normal. The FBI just issued an alert on suspicious
people at scuba stores.



"There's no specific incident or threat. We are just asking for
managers to report any suspicious activity," said Deborah McCarly,
spokesperson for the Phoenix FBI.



The FBI is talking about any customers who request lessons, offer cash, and provide little information.



But what could a terrorist do with scuba equipment? One scuba store owner has a theory.



"They could compromise our water supply. In a city like Phoenix,
where water is such a resource, that would be a disaster," said Paul
Wagenseller, owner of Scuba Sciences.



That could make sense, judging from the FBIs warning. They advise
against customers who ask for special training, requests to dive in
murky water or sewer pipes, or even advanced skills like deep diving.



Wagenseller had worked with the FBI before, when three men from the
Pakistan asked for scuba lessons but gave little information about
their background.



"They signed up but disappeared a couple weeks into the class. I
called the FBI and it turns out they gave fake names," said Wagenseller.



The scuba industry, he says, is one compiled of passionate
divers. He says it's easy to tell if someone's in it for fun, or
something more sinister.



"Those guys (the Pakistanis) didn't seem to enjoy it. You can
usually tell if someone is doing it for fun or for another
reason," Wagenseller said.

fire diver
07-18-2007, 11:31
I'm pretty sure that water supplies aren't the target. Why would they need scuba for that? Just throw the contaminant in from the surface and be done.
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<DIV>But SCUBA, rebreather and DPV training couls be a prelude to attacks in sensitive ports. Think along the lines of limpit mines. A very large one attached to the bottom of an LPG tanker coming into port would do a lot of damage to the community.</DIV>
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<DIV>FD</DIV>

jacewindu
07-18-2007, 11:39
"Those guys (the Pakistanis) didn't seem to enjoy it. You can
usually tell if someone is doing it for fun or for another
reason," Wagenseller said.




"where is the pocket for explosives in my bc?" haha
ya, pretty sure they wouldn't enjoy that...

PlatypusMan
07-18-2007, 12:13
Another thing that popped up a few months back was to be on the lookout for people who showed interest in simply getting into the water without any apparent or only minimal interest in safety steps to prevent DCI.

This is nothing new. I believe there is a diving training agency that has a specialty course in harbor security as related to diving.

Liv7301
07-18-2007, 14:19
I have this image of a guy shopping for gear:
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<DIV>"Oh I can use this d-ring to clip on the bomb--er, uh...I mean octo."</DIV>

Joew
07-18-2007, 14:39
Terrorists underwater!! Where's Mike Nelson when we need him?

Lucky(AR)
07-18-2007, 19:20
im not a terriost i promise ..i have a laser beam on my spear gun....and have a dpv for sale on the forum...intresting story though...lol

Liv7301
07-18-2007, 20:48
We are sure that you are a fine, upstanding diver who just likes to be accurate when spearing a fishy!
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<DIV>(But gosh that dpv does make you look a bit suspicious...) :)</DIV>

mwhities
07-19-2007, 09:01
I've read this exact same discussion 65364375898696 times... or some number of times.

*yawn*

Michael

PlatypusMan
07-19-2007, 09:05
Terrorists underwater!! Where's Mike Nelson when we need him?

Satellite of Love?

rainmaker
07-19-2007, 09:50
All nuclear power plants use water (lots of it) for cooling the reactor. In theory at least, terrorists could enter the body of water where the nuclear power plant is located and gain access to the reactor by entering the water-intake or water-discharge areas. Once there, they could detonate an explosive device.
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techgnostic
07-21-2007, 01:13
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<DIV>requests to learn advanced skills associated with combat swimming </DIV>
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<DIV>Dude, I didn't know combat swimming was a PADI class specialty...I am so there!</DIV>
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<DIV>Seriously, if gyms can offer boot camp, why couldn't an ex-SEAL or PJ offer diver stress training? I would sign up in a second for the psychological edge that would provide in emergency/dangerous situations.</DIV>
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Venio
07-21-2007, 16:00
<div>...training sponsored by religious organizations, cults, associations, or charitable agencies not normally associated with diving;... </font>

There are some Christian Divers of Texas there at CSSP. We need to keep an eye on them. LMAO smileys/smiley36.gif
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TxHockeyGuy
07-23-2007, 14:19
</font><div>
<div>requests to learn advanced skills associated with combat swimming</font> </div>
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<div>Dude, I didn't know combat swimming was a PADI class specialty...I am so there!</div>
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<div>Seriously, if gyms can offer boot camp, why couldn't an ex-SEAL or PJ offer diver stress training? I would sign up in a second for the psychological edge that would provide in emergency/dangerous situations.</div>
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I know two people who went through SEAL dive training. You couldn't pay me any amount of money to go through that. Coming up from behind, ripping your mask off, your regulator out, and then turning off your gas is not my idea of fun. Nor are underwater night navigation courses with no buddies, no lights, in a shipping channel, with 50 degree water, and minimal thermal protection. Thanks, but I'll pass.

techgnostic
07-23-2007, 15:32
I know two people who went through SEAL dive training. You couldn't pay me any amount of money to go through that. Coming up from behind, ripping your mask off, your regulator out, and then turning off your gas is not my idea of fun. Nor are underwater night navigation courses with no buddies, no lights, in a shipping channel, with 50 degree water, and minimal thermal protection. Thanks, but I'll pass.

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<DIV>That's hard core. </DIV>
<DIV>The SEALs I know are unassuming looking guys...solid, but not ripped...they just never get rattled.</DIV>

Black-Gorrilla
07-23-2007, 15:51
wait a minute... I paid for my ow in cash... most times when I buy gear.. I go to the bank and get cash... later this year... I'm gonna pay for nitrox class in cash...
maybe I'm a terrorist and just don't know it yet?
what the hell is wrong with people now a days....
(by the way... the terrorist thing is a joke for the fbi people that patrol the net... I'm brasilian.)

poor people that want to do aow... look out

TxHockeyGuy
07-23-2007, 15:55
wait a minute... I paid for my ow in cash... most times when I buy gear.. I go to the bank and get cash... later this year... I'm gonna pay for nitrox class in cash...

maybe I'm a terrorist and just don't know it yet?

what the hell is wrong with people now a days....

(by the way... the terrorist thing is a joke for the fbi people that patrol the net... I'm brasilian.)



poor people that want to do aow... look out

Careful, them three letter agencies don't have a sense of humor, or so I'm told.

Black-Gorrilla
07-23-2007, 16:00
what are they gonna do... bother me for a week ? tell me to stay at 100' max depth...who cares... we are supposed to have all of our freedoms... including freedom of speech... and im sure comedy is in there somewhere too...
<DIV>they all got their asses clinched so tight they can squeeze out diamonds.</DIV>
<DIV>i dont care what they do, i just think that there is alot of bigger problems to be delt with other than AOW divers from other countries... go figuere.</DIV>
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fire diver
07-23-2007, 16:58
what are they gonna do... bother me for a week ?
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<DIV>In the name of national security you could disapear to one of the secret detention facilities for a few months. That's not a joke either. That http://www.scubatoys.com/forum/smileys/smiley35.gifhappens. I've already got my own file at the FBI. (no joke)http://www.scubatoys.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif</DIV>
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<DIV>FD</DIV>

Black-Gorrilla
07-23-2007, 18:10
so be it... we pay taxes so that we can have our nation protected and what not... i can dissagree with whats going on as much as i want... i ditint vote for bush. that doo doo is all him and good luck to him in his future... but when january comes around and he's gone, america will be a better place.
<DIV>that man is a fool and does not desserve to be the president of this country.</DIV>

quarrydiver
08-14-2007, 21:07
pretty sad that we have to worry about what we say because we're afraid.

namabiru
08-14-2007, 21:39
Yeah, that's right Cichlid. FOX (I think) also did a whole big elaborate news feature on the whole FBI thing, and they interviewed the dude at Scuba Sciences. SS isn't the most popular shop in the Valley.

I do believe you can see the clip over on DiveMatrix. Go to the Arizona group. The divers there dined out for a good week on the whole story. If Dive-aholic were here, he'd remember, I'm sure.

You actually should watch the clip and read the commentary. It's quazi-amusing.