PDA

View Full Version : Standard Octo versus Integrated Octo?



DDGator
07-17-2007, 22:59
In my OW class I had an opportunity to use both a standard octo and an integrated octo/inflator set-up (like the Scuba Pro Air2).


When I bought my first rig, I went with the standard octo, just as a personal preference. However, I can see some advantages to the integrated style too--mostly in the elimination of one extra hose.


However -- I see a lot of the experienced people here seem to prefer the standard octo...


What do you think? Pros and cons of both?

przeor
07-18-2007, 02:44
Regular all the way- the integrated seems like it would be a hassle in an OOA emergency where I had to donate. I'd have to breathe off my inflator while controlling an ascent- doesn't seem practical. The one extra hose isn't much of a deal breaker, especially if you use a shorter hose and a bungeed back-up. I'd rather have my air where I know it'll be and leave my inflator hose for inflating (and deflating). Seems like solving a problem that doesn't exist. Just my opinion though.

Joew
07-18-2007, 03:15
The octo/inflator combos work fine for recreational diving. They're not as difficult to use as some might make you think. However, I prefer having a dedicated back-up. The extra hose does't make a difference to me.

PlatypusMan
07-18-2007, 07:33
FWIW, I have both on my rig.

Prior to Rescue, I was solely diving with the integrated octo/inflator; during Rescue, I realized that the majority of people in an emergency were trained to look for that delightfully yellow colored reg that should be hanging in the magic triangle on my body. I added a standard octo configuration to my gear after that.

Never did take off the integrated--I guess I am the SCUBA equivalent of a belt-and-suspenders guy...smileys/smiley2.gif

creggur
07-18-2007, 16:04
Used both in my open water class. I like the combo better.

1 less hose to deal with.
During ascent could blead air with a little tug on the hose.
Have been told if someone is OOA they will go for your primary anyway.
Always know right where it is.</DIV>
Octo-Z and SS1 you can storewith your primary.
According to Scuba Diving the Octo-Z, Gemini, and SS1 breathe as well as a lot of primary regs.

I know there are pros and cons to both and in the end it comes down to personal preference. You should also review with your dive buddy in an emergency he/she will get the primary. My wife and I trained this way with Air 2's so I will be going that route....

somewhereinla
07-18-2007, 20:18
I don't know anyone that has an integrated octo and that actually like it. I had to abort a dive last week because my budy's air 2' was suddenly leaking.

Rascal1933
07-18-2007, 20:57
Octo-Z, Gemini, and SS1 breathe as well as a lot of primary regs.
Got to agree there. &gt; The Atomic SSI is a top notch in-line octo.

O.K. just my .02 1/2 cents worth..

Standard Octo all the way!

Joew
07-18-2007, 21:01
I don't know anyone that has an integrated octo and that actually like it. I had to abort a dive last week because my budy's air 2' was suddenly leaking.

What do you mean by leaking? Was it like a slow, steady free flow? If so, then their IP probably needs adjusting on the 1st stage. If thats the case then a regular octo would do the same thing, and your buddy would notice it on their primary if it weren't in their mouth.

FWIW, I know alot of people who happily use Air2 type combos, including several Instructors and DM's.

Judestudio
07-18-2007, 21:15
Another vote for standard octo. I also find it awkward to try and suck air to save myself + master buoyancy for both of us at the same time. Just like what przeor said earlier, if you have your standard octo on a 22" hose under your chin, you won't need to deal with it at all, thus eliminating a dangling hose like you would with an integrated octo. In a matter of fact, I find most integrated octo / inflator hoses big and bulky, and becoz you might need it during OOA, you won't be tying it down. So by eliminating an octo hose, you got a big dangling one to deal with smileys/smiley24.gif

Joew
07-18-2007, 22:30
In a matter of fact, I find most integrated octo / inflator hoses big and bulky, and becoz you might need it during OOA, you won't be tying it down. So by eliminating an octo hose, you got a big dangling one to deal with smileys/smiley24.gif

I agree with you here. I don't think they will make your rig any more streamlined. your just moving the bulk elsewhere.

mwhities
07-18-2007, 22:32
Why have any octo at all? Just go with a detuned back up secondary regulator. :)

Michael

medic001918
07-18-2007, 23:21
I have the standard octo bungee'd around my neck. That way it never comes loose and drags, can't get caught on anything and I always know where it is. Plus it keeps away from things like my inflator and such.

I like Michael's idea of a detuned secondary. I want to purchase a match to Mares Abyss that I dive, then I'll have the set up for when I get my doubles...oh the money this sport is costing me...

Shane

CompuDude
07-18-2007, 23:40
Standard octo, preferably on a bungee around my neck.

SS1's and Air2's serve their purpose, but I have to say the whole emphasis on eliminating extra hoses is kind of absurd... how tough are they really, to deal with?

OTOH, "chording" to manage your buoyancy and breath/dump air at the same time during an OOA emergency, using a thick corrugated hose, seems like asking for complications at the worst possible time. In addition, it forces you to have a bulky inflator on a hose that FAR longer than it needs to be for the other 99.9% of your diving.

techgnostic
07-19-2007, 01:16
Why have any octo at all? Just go with a detuned back up secondary regulator. :)

Michael

Detuned secondary regulator...what's that, vs. an octo (low cost regulator)?

CompuDude
07-19-2007, 03:21
Why have any octo at all? Just go with a detuned back up secondary regulator. :)

Michael

<div>Detuned secondary regulator...what's that, vs. an octo (low cost regulator)?</div>
It's another full quality regulator, rather than a low-end cheap-as-possible "octo". It is detuned to be less sensitive, either with a simple twist adjustment if its adjustable, or by the reg tech, to be more resistant to free-flow. Doesn't breathe quite as nice as the main reg, since it's purposely made less sensitive, but it'll still do the job very well.

A "Secondary" rather than an "Octo" usually implies a higher-quality reg, often the same reg as the primary, but again, detuned.

Judestudio
07-19-2007, 05:38
A "Secondary" rather than an "Octo" usually implies a higher-quality reg, often the same reg as the primary, but again, detuned.

I like the sound of that! I know of a lot of people that use a would-be primary reg as their secondary. And that make total sense, since the diver will be the one using it, and most usually at time that you need it most, so why skimp on that?

creggur
07-19-2007, 06:38
FWIW, I know alot of people who happily use Air2 type combos, including several Instructors and DM's.
My instructor uses the traditional setup, but his wife, a DM, that was present for our check dives, prefers the combo setup. I don't think the guy would let his wife use something thathe wasn't comfortable with,...Unless of course he doesn't really like her that muchhttp://www.scubatoys.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif

techgnostic
07-19-2007, 19:19
It's another full quality regulator, rather than a low-end cheap-as-possible "octo".

That was my guess. One could buy two identical regs, and just put one into secondary use. Se bon.



It is detuned to be less sensitive, either with a simple twist adjustment if its adjustable, or by the reg tech, to be more resistant to free-flow. Doesn't breathe quite as nice as the main reg, since it's purposely made less sensitive, but it'll still do the job very well.

Why would one want to 'detune'? So it spills less air dangling around you neck, in it's nifty shock cord necklace, perhaps?

CompuDude
07-19-2007, 20:13
It's another full quality regulator, rather than a low-end cheap-as-possible "octo".

That was my guess. One could buy two identical regs, and just put one into secondary use. Se bon.



It is detuned to be less sensitive, either with a simple twist adjustment if its adjustable, or by the reg tech, to be more resistant to free-flow. Doesn't breathe quite as nice as the main reg, since it's purposely made less sensitive, but it'll still do the job very well.

Why would one want to 'detune'? So it spills less air dangling around you neck, in it's nifty shock cord necklace, perhaps?
Exactly, in fact, that's a preferred setup, funds permitting. I'll get there eventually, meanwhile I'm happy with my ScubaPro S600 primary and S555 secondary. They're close enough.

Regs bought specifically for use as octos are usually somewhat de-tuned out of the box. Regular regs not so much. Most octo holders (including the bungee method) hold the reg mouthpiece up, which increases the likelihood of freeflow. Detuning it reduces that likelihood.

techgnostic
07-19-2007, 21:19
Exactly, in fact, that's a preferred setup, funds permitting.

Regs bought specifically for use as octos are usually somewhat de-tuned out of the box. Regular regs not so much.


Now I have a better idea of what rig I am shooting for (funds permitting).

Thank you for the knowledge. That which as previously hidden behind the scenes (out o'da box octo detuning)...now is illuminated. I guess I never pondered why octos didn't spill as much air.</font>

thesmoothdome
07-20-2007, 01:19
Gotta vote for a standard octo. I only owned and used a SeaQuest Airsource for 2 dives, butI didn'tlike it. I found it to be awkward as a BC inflator and didn't like the way it fit my hand and the button position.

TxHockeyGuy
07-20-2007, 11:19
I am a recent air2 convert (back to standard). There are things I liked about my air2 (a tusa duo air) and things I did not like.

Things I liked.

1. It was one less reg and hose to put in my reg bag, less cluttered.
2. I always knew where my octo was, no chance of it coming out of it's holder.
3. I liked how it would inflate faster than a standard inflater.

Things I didn't like and why I changed.

1. It was slightly more difficult to handle an ascent when doing an OOA drill. Not overly so however.
2. In the event of a BCD or regulator problem I would be forced to swap out both because of the non-standard connectors.
3. Any octo-inflater problems means the dive is done as that is your octo.
4. It didn't breath as well as a standard octo, at least not the one I have now.

Basically I swapped because of number 2 and 3, using one for an OOA air share is really not that difficult although it does require some practice. They are also more expensive so I say save your money and go with the standard setup.

Judestudio
07-20-2007, 16:27
Great sharing. Don't get me wrong, I completely respect those who like to go with an octo-inflator combo (that's why they exist), nothing too wrong about them, but I thought I'll make a few points too...



Things I liked.

1. It was one less reg and hose to put in my reg bag, less cluttered.
2. I always knew where my octo was, no chance of it coming out of it's holder.
3. I liked how it would inflate faster than a standard inflater.
1. But standard octo on a 22" hose, won't be too much of a clutter in the reg bag I think. The bigger inflator hose on the BChowever could be a little annoying wouldn't it? Say if you want to fold it up for travel?
2. Um...but if you have the standard octo under your chin, you would also know where it is all the time...

These are just my personal feelings...

thesmoothdome
07-20-2007, 17:02
One more thing to consider that played a role in me deciding to ditch the Air Source was the travel element. I pack my reg and some other items in my carry on bag, but pack my BC in my checked baggage. I didn't want to deal with having my bags delayed/lost and showing up on a boat without an alternate air source. I'm sure that it's easily rectifiable, but it seemed like an unneeded worry.

techgnostic
07-21-2007, 00:45
I didn't want to deal with having my bags delayed/lost and showing up on a boat without an alternate air source. I'm sure that it's easily rectifiable, but it seemed like an unneeded worry.

That's a really astute point.

Success is limiting failures before they limit you. (-TM 12:44 am, 7.21.07)

jacewindu
07-21-2007, 11:05
i'm a fan of of the standard octo - simply because of potential complications with the integrated if you actually are required to use it

tc_rain
07-21-2007, 11:41
Don't you need to increase the hose length on the BCD for the air2?

Joew
07-21-2007, 12:54
Don't you need to increase the hose length on the BCD for the air2?

The corrogated hose on most BCs is usually long enough. Most manufacturers are aware that some people will use octo/inflator combos, so the leave the hose a little longer than needed with a standard inflator. As long as you can get it in your mouth and turn your head it is ok. Some combos even come with a new hose, like the Seaquest Airsource.

Judestudio
07-21-2007, 15:47
If someone wants to go hardcore on the octo-inflater combo smileys/smiley14.gif :

Air3 4-IN-1 Features:
<ul> 1) Safe Second/Octo
2) Power Inflator
3) Air Horn (Up to 1/2 mile)
4) Underwater Signaling device
[/list]http://www.aquatecusa.com/products/bmz_cache/7/70dbf6b34606947d38fc3b960f04e27a.image.250x174.jpg

Innovative, I guess......


EDIT: Posted a wrong picture before....

tc_rain
07-21-2007, 16:32
The corrogated hose on my BC seemsa little short. I prefer the octo though so it doesn't matter in my case.

Too many buttons on the octo-inflater combofor me. I would be trying to attract someones attention and accidently filling the BC, rocketing to the surface. Then as I was trying to dump air, I would be quacking the thing.

CompuDude
07-21-2007, 17:32
The corrugated hose on most BCs is far longer than it needs to be, partially because of the rise of Air2-type units.

DSS (https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?product=105) makes a wing with an amazingly short hose, and yet everyone who uses it seems to like it better once they get used to it.

Judestudio
07-21-2007, 20:57
DSS (https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?product=105) makes a wing with an amazingly short hose, and yet everyone who uses it seems to like it better once they get used to it.
Yea. The DSS hose hang just over the shoulder a little, I can JUST pull it over and orally inflate it. It was deliberately made short so that it doesn't dangle at all, and it's THERE always when you need it. Apparently easier to vent air as well. The wing is shipped with a LP hose to match the length of the inflator hose. The design here greatly discouraged anyone using an octo-inflator combo with it.

techgnostic
07-21-2007, 22:52
If someone wants to go hardcore on the octo-inflater combo smileys/smiley14.gif :

Inflat-Alert 4-IN-1 Features:


1) Safe Second/Octo
2) Power Inflator
3) Air Horn (Up to 1/2 mile)
4) Underwater Signaling device
Innovative, I guess......



I'll wait until they release a model that brews coffee between dives.

Lucky(AR)
07-22-2007, 00:32
i have a zeagle air 2 and love it no problems and one less hose hanging around

picxie
07-22-2007, 01:09
I've never used an integrated one but had thought they looked quite good - one less thing to worry about.
But after reading all these (very good) comments I think I'll keep my regular one!

techgnostic
07-22-2007, 22:21
I've never used an integrated one but had thought they looked quite good - one less thing to worry about.

But after reading all these (very good) comments I think I'll keep my regular one!

Ditto. (Once I can afford to get a new one.)

Judestudio
07-22-2007, 23:20
If someone wants to go hardcore on the octo-inflater combo smileys/smiley14.gif :

Inflat-Alert 4-IN-1 Features:

<ul>
1) Safe Second/Octo
2) Power Inflator
3) Air Horn (Up to 1/2 mile)
4) Underwater Signaling device
Innovative, I guess......

[/list]


I'll wait until they release a model that brews coffee between dives.
That ultimate-inflator combo there reminds me of Transformers...

techgnostic
07-22-2007, 23:25
That ultimate-inflator combo there reminds me of Transformers...



Which according to the "any good movies lately" thread, is in fact a good movie. (I still can't bring myself to go see it.)

tedolf_bundler
07-24-2008, 20:28
Check out my rig in the Avatar picture. I dive with an Aeris Air Link integrated Alt Air/inflator. The corrugated hose has a ball 1/2 way up I pull to vent the bc on ascent (I ascend with no air in my bc-warm water diver). This is easily done with the Air Link in my mouth and the corrugated hose is long/flexible enough for me to turn my head comfortably. My primary second stage is an ambedextrous Omega II on a 360 Deg. swivel which I donate on a longish (octo-length) yellow hose. I have it routed under my arm in the picture. This great as it allows my buddy to swimm next to me (or in any position) back to the boat if we have enough air to do so. I test the Alt. Air Link on every dive and find it easy to find, easy to use, easy to breath and it doesn't drag in the sand, hang down, etc. I would not go back to a conventional set up. Also saves weight/space packing.

digitalman
07-24-2008, 23:34
In addition, it forces you to have a bulky inflator on a hose that FAR longer than it needs to be for the other 99.9% of your diving.
I'd have to disagree on the extra long hose. I dive with an Air2 and think the hose on my setup is 1-2 inches too short.

CompuDude
07-25-2008, 00:13
In addition, it forces you to have a bulky inflator on a hose that FAR longer than it needs to be for the other 99.9% of your diving.
I'd have to disagree on the extra long hose. I dive with an Air2 and think the hose on my setup is 1-2 inches too short.

Then you misunderstood my point.

Catt99
07-25-2008, 09:06
It is detuned to be less sensitive, either with a simple twist adjustment if its adjustable, or by the reg tech, to be more resistant to free-flow. Doesn't breathe quite as nice as the main reg, since it's purposely made less sensitive, but it'll still do the job very well.

Why would one want to 'detune'? So it spills less air dangling around you neck, in it's nifty shock cord necklace, perhaps?
Exactly, in fact, that's a preferred setup, funds permitting. I'll get there eventually, meanwhile I'm happy with my ScubaPro S600 primary and S555 secondary. They're close enough.

Regs bought specifically for use as octos are usually somewhat de-tuned out of the box. Regular regs not so much. Most octo holders (including the bungee method) hold the reg mouthpiece up, which increases the likelihood of freeflow. Detuning it reduces that likelihood.

Is it common to have a tech detune a bungeed reg used as an Octo if it has a venturi lever and/or adjustable flow? Or do most simply rely on the diver-controlled adjustments to minimize any free flows?

BSea
07-25-2008, 09:25
It is detuned to be less sensitive, either with a simple twist adjustment if its adjustable, or by the reg tech, to be more resistant to free-flow. Doesn't breathe quite as nice as the main reg, since it's purposely made less sensitive, but it'll still do the job very well.

Why would one want to 'detune'? So it spills less air dangling around you neck, in it's nifty shock cord necklace, perhaps?Exactly, in fact, that's a preferred setup, funds permitting. I'll get there eventually, meanwhile I'm happy with my ScubaPro S600 primary and S555 secondary. They're close enough.

Regs bought specifically for use as octos are usually somewhat de-tuned out of the box. Regular regs not so much. Most octo holders (including the bungee method) hold the reg mouthpiece up, which increases the likelihood of freeflow. Detuning it reduces that likelihood.Is it common to have a tech detune a bungeed reg used as an Octo if it has a venturi lever and/or adjustable flow? Or do most simply rely on the diver-controlled adjustments to minimize any free flows?If it's adjustable, then No it isn't necessary. You are basically doing the detuning by the adjustment knob. But the venturi is a different feature. I just directs the air flow. If all you have is a venturi, and you are having free flow problems, then I'd have it detuned.