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UCFKnightDiver
11-07-2007, 11:28
What is so wrong with this?

ertechsg
11-07-2007, 11:35
Old school says its a sign of distress incorrect way to do something

robanna
11-07-2007, 11:40
One bump and it's bye-bye mask.

CompuDude
11-07-2007, 11:58
One bump and it's bye-bye mask.

That's the big one. The distress thing in kinda BS IMO, but people get annoyed at you if you do it, so I don't. It is an easy way to lose a mask, however, and not a good idea for that reason.

RoadRacer1978
11-07-2007, 12:30
One bump and it's bye-bye mask.

That's the big one. The distress thing in kinda BS IMO, but people get annoyed at you if you do it, so I don't. It is an easy way to lose a mask, however, and not a good idea for that reason.

Best reason of all. To easy to lose it that way.

mike_s
11-07-2007, 12:55
I agree that one bump and you might loose it.....

but this "it's a sign of distress", I've got to agree. That's total BS.

**IF** I'm in distress. the last thing I'm going to do is to take the time to put my mask on my forhead. I'm going to be flailing my arms like a windmill.

What really irrates me is something like one time at the local quarry we were floating on the surface near the dock waiting for the open water class that was getting in the water to clear off the dock area before we got out. Many of us simply put our mask up on our forhead while waiting the minute or two it took them to clear out....

Then some asshole took it upon himself to walk down to the dock and yell at the top of his lungs "Are you in Distress? Because your mask is on top of your head". (said very rudely and sarcastically in front of everyone trying to get attention for himself).

We answered "If we were in distress do you think we'd just be floating here 5' off the dock having a conversation, you freakin idiot (plus a bunch of other comments and adjectives that shouldn't be posted here). I mean it's obvious to him we were not in distress because he saw us the whole time he was walking down to the dock to try to be an idiot.

After we all yelled at him and made him look like an idiot in front of everyone, he walked back up the dock with his tail between his legs.... but it just irratated me that some people actually think that way and go further to act upon it. It would have been one thing if it was in fun, but here was somebody who was clueless just trying to be an idiot doing it.


I could care less if people are MOF or NMOF. Let them do what they want to do. If others don't like it, then F' them. Just don't try to tell others what to do.

I guess this wouldn't type of thing wouldn't have bothered me that much if it wasn't for idiots like we encountered that day.

kenmendes
11-07-2007, 13:09
I also agree. If you want to loose your mask them put it up there

JCAT
11-07-2007, 13:17
I always wear my mask because I'm blind as a bat and my mask is prescription.

However, I agree with mike_s. First observe the person who you think may be in distress. Are they really?

A mask on the forehead, arm, foot, being used to bop dive buddy on the head with, upside down, ect. is not a sign of distress by itself.

You gotta observe everything accurately.

(besides dive buddy might be a Carolina fan and deserves to be bopped on head)

gibson1525
11-07-2007, 13:40
I agree that one bump and you might loose it.....

but this "it's a sign of distress", I've got to agree. That's total BS.

**IF** I'm in distress. the last thing I'm going to do is to take the time to put my mask on my forhead. I'm going to be flailing my arms like a windmill.

What really irrates me is something like one time at the local quarry we were floating on the surface near the dock waiting for the open water class that was getting in the water to clear off the dock area before we got out. Many of us simply put our mask up on our forhead while waiting the minute or two it took them to clear out....

Then some asshole took it upon himself to walk down to the dock and yell at the top of his lungs "Are you in Distress? Because your mask is on top of your head". (said very rudely and sarcastically in front of everyone trying to get attention for himself).

We answered "If we were in distress do you think we'd just be floating here 5' off the dock having a conversation, you freakin idiot (plus a bunch of other comments and adjectives that shouldn't be posted here). I mean it's obvious to him we were not in distress because he saw us the whole time he was walking down to the dock to try to be an idiot.

After we all yelled at him and made him look like an idiot in front of everyone, he walked back up the dock with his tail between his legs.... but it just irratated me that some people actually think that way and go further to act upon it. It would have been one thing if it was in fun, but here was somebody who was clueless just trying to be an idiot doing it.


I could care less if people are MOF or NMOF. Let them do what they want to do. If others don't like it, then F' them. Just don't try to tell others what to do.

I guess this wouldn't type of thing wouldn't have bothered me that much if it wasn't for idiots like we encountered that day.


that's hilarious, i've always wanted to do this. my mask on my forehead is the last thing you're going to notice about me if i'm in distress.

TRACI
11-07-2007, 13:48
My dive instructor scolded our class when they seen us wear our mask on our forehead, but I guess not enough, because I always wear my mask on my forehead, my day is probably coming soon when I will lose it.

MSilvia
11-07-2007, 13:50
I don't see a problem with it in general. I keep my mask on my forehead when I'm at the surface, and I've been using the same mask since 1999. I've never lost one... even in surf. I don't think the distress idea is "old school" though. I've only started hearing it in the past 5-10 years.

CaptainRon
11-07-2007, 14:00
It never bothered me if someone wants to have their mask on their head. It's their mask and their money if they lose it. As far as old school thinking, I've been certified for 30 years and I don't remember ever hearing about it being a sign of distress. I agree with others, if I am in distress, you will know it!

CompuDude
11-07-2007, 14:06
I don't see a problem with it in general. I keep my mask on my forehead when I'm at the surface, and I've been using the same mask since 1999. I've never lost one... even in surf. I don't think the distress idea is "old school" though. I've only started hearing it in the past 5-10 years.

No, I was told the same thing when I was certified in '87.

Fact of the matter is, everyone with rescue training or better, and everyone with professional-level training, has been taught that it is a sign of distress. One sign among many, to be sure, but that's what is taught.

As a result, some people go a little overboard on "enforcement" instead of realizing it is one of many possible "symptoms" and doesn't necessarily mean anything.

For instance, one sign of a possibly stressed diver, when checking over a group, is someone who is quiet and withdrawn OR someone who is unusually gregarious and overly-talkative. Does this mean that someone who is simply a quiet person is stressed? Not necessarily. Does this mean that a funny, talkative guy is stressed? Again, not necessarily. But it is a small warning flag that bears checking, esp. if it is your responsibility (think DiveMaster here). Common sense dictates that you take in the whole picture and don't assume someone is stressed because they're talkative. (I can only imagine how "stressed" my mother is all the time with all that yapping!) And common sense SHOULD dictate that MOF means take a second glance, that's all.

Lazy people don't want to take a second glance or use common sense. So they ride people about MOF, so that's one less thing they have to think about.

Aspendiver
11-07-2007, 14:13
'nother thing, if risk of losing mask is not enough-
A mask up on your forehead is much more likely to fog than one around your neck. Only important if you're planning on putting it back on.

ertechsg
11-07-2007, 14:19
Another one of those who's right who's wrong ? Now can we take keepsakes from wrecks too.

Dive-aholic
11-07-2007, 14:25
Distress will cause a diver to rip the mask off, not place it on the forehead. A distressed diver's mask will be under water because as soon as the diver hits the surface, the mask will be pulled completely off.

Kasi_G
11-07-2007, 14:57
mask on the forehead, i dont do it but i agree that its a silly thing to do because its a VERY easy way to lose your mask??

ScubaJenn81
11-07-2007, 15:18
I agree with you all, but putting your mask on your forehead is a lot easier if you have your hair pulled back. Otherwise, if you put it down like you should, it takes more time to pull back in place.

Chad
11-07-2007, 15:28
I think that it is your mask so you put it wherever you want.

ertechsg
11-07-2007, 15:35
I think that it is your mask so you put it wherever you want.
YEA.... just don't expect me to go get it

dallasdivergirl
11-07-2007, 15:45
I keep mine around my neck. I have too many other things to keep up with than where the heck my mask has gotten to....

I forget it if I leave it on my forehead.

Puffer Fish
11-07-2007, 15:46
I also agree. If you want to loose your mask them put it up there
Ok, I will do my best to stay on topic with this one....

Thousands of dives... and I have never lost a mask... and I do it all the time. In fact, I still have my US Diver mask from the 70's... ok, the brass is a bit crusty, but it still works (except the lenses are wrong, now).

No one actually believes that is a sign of distress, or everytime they saw someone, they would go into rescue mode. I've seen dozens of actual people in panic, not one ever carefully put their mask on their forehead.

If you are stupid enough to do a surf entry and go MOF, then you deserve what you get. If you put your MOF, in calm seas, you will not loose it.

BSea
11-07-2007, 16:43
Question: Does putting your mask on your forhead signify a diver in distress?

Answer by an unnamed Junior Miss Contestant: I believe that the reason this happens is because most underwater scuba divers don't have forheads. I believe that it's the responsibility of US American underwater scuba divers to help the underwater scuba divers from South Africa that don't have masks. I also think the underwater scuba divers in Iraq should be helped by PADI because . . . . What was the question again?

CompuDude
11-07-2007, 16:44
I also agree. If you want to loose your mask them put it up there
Ok, I will do my best to stay on topic with this one....

Thousands of dives... and I have never lost a mask... and I do it all the time. In fact, I still have my US Diver mask from the 70's... ok, the brass is a bit crusty, but it still works (except the lenses are wrong, now).

No one actually believes that is a sign of distress, or everytime they saw someone, they would go into rescue mode. I've seen dozens of actual people in panic, not one ever carefully put their mask on their forehead.

If you are stupid enough to do a surf entry and go MOF, then you deserve what you get. If you put your MOF, in calm seas, you will not loose it.
Only 100's of dives here, but I have lost several masks over the years. Only one due to MOF, however, but I kick myself to this day over that one.

SoCal surf is not mask-friendly. Have to be stupid to do that. (and yes, I resembled that remark on one occasion...)

MSilvia
11-07-2007, 17:05
Fact of the matter is, everyone with rescue training or better, and everyone with professional-level training, has been taught that it is a sign of distress. One sign among many, to be sure, but that's what is taught.
Sure... I was taught that it was a sign of distress, in the same way that sweating is a sign of stress. I was never taught that MOF=distress. Absent any other indications, you can't assume that someone with a mask on their forehead is in distress any more than you can assume that someone sweating is nervous. When someone is paniced, they might feel an urge to get the mask off their face at the surface. If you can't tell that response apart from someone calmly putting their mask up, you missed the point entirely.

It just occurred to me that I've had my sunglasses on my forehead all day. I do the same thing with my mask when I'm not using it, except that I usually remember to take it off before removing my hood.

dludwig
11-07-2007, 17:18
PADI Open Water training considers a mask on the forehead as diver in distress. It depends on the instructor. I dive w/ 2 different LDS in the area. One doesn't say anything about it but the other is pretty hardcore against their divers wearing their mask on their foreheads. Many have received a friendly reminder like..."the next one I see w/his mask on his forehead is going to get to buy me an adult beverage after we're done" :smiley2:

RoadRacer1978
11-07-2007, 17:30
My instructors always threatened us with recuse breaths if they saw us with our mask on our forehead. They were just jokingas knowone ever actually had this happen. I don't really see the big deal. In a stressful situation I would think you would be prone to do something out of habit. So if you alway pull your mask down around your neck, in a stressful situation you would likely do that when you reached the surface just out of habit.

Puffer Fish
11-07-2007, 17:34
PADI Open Water training considers a mask on the forehead as diver in distress. It depends on the instructor. I dive w/ 2 different LDS in the area. One doesn't say anything about it but the other is pretty hardcore against their divers wearing their mask on their foreheads. Many have received a friendly reminder like..."the next one I see w/his mask on his forehead is going to get to buy me an adult beverage after we're done" :smiley2:
Don't tell anyone.. really, keep this to yourself... it is important for some instructors to have a list of items that will get them free beer...the more you have, the more beer you get... has nothing to do with the issue... unless we are discussing how to get free beer.

If they believed that was a sign of distress, then they would be getting beer from all of the other signs as well.

mike_s
11-07-2007, 17:59
If you have instructors that are that anal about a mask on your forehead, it's time to look for better instructors....




PADI Open Water training considers a mask on the forehead as diver in distress.


Doesn't mean that PADI is right here..... It's just their clueless adding of a rule to the class that doesn't need to be added. I wonder if PADI actually has that printed in their OW material. Anyone know? (I didnt take a PADI OW class so I wouldn't know).

Puffer Fish
11-07-2007, 18:03
We decided to test the concept last year at a PADI five star resort... so one of us put his mask on his forehead.. in the ocean.. with divers and boats all around us and waited to be rescued...he would still be there today waiting.

RoadRacer1978
11-07-2007, 18:07
If you put your mask on your forehead you have a better chance of some smart A-- yelling at you than getting rescued.

UCFKnightDiver
11-07-2007, 18:11
lol well thanks for the info guys, I try to turn the mask around on my head, because I dont like it hanging from my neck, but sometimes I just forget, yeah my instructor threatened me with buying the class and him lunch (class consisted of just one other), at first he said beer but as I am only 19 that might have been a bit hard lol

CompuDude
11-07-2007, 18:20
We decided to test the concept last year at a PADI five star resort... so one of us put his mask on his forehead.. in the ocean.. with divers and boats all around us and waited to be rescued...he would still be there today waiting.

Seen the photo of the editor of Sports Diver magazine (The PADI-sponsored rag with the pretty pictures) that's in every issue by his foreward? MOF.

Puffer Fish
11-07-2007, 18:44
We decided to test the concept last year at a PADI five star resort... so one of us put his mask on his forehead.. in the ocean.. with divers and boats all around us and waited to be rescued...he would still be there today waiting.

Seen the photo of the editor of Sports Diver magazine (The PADI-sponsored rag with the pretty pictures) that's in every issue by his foreward? MOF.


Here was our test subject (sorry David)...

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/garinj/Davidmof.jpg

Anne Eastwell
11-07-2007, 18:56
Certified too many years ago to recall all the minute details.... but when I did my re-cert just a few months ago my DB told me not to put MOF as it was a sign of distress.

I'd have to agree with most of you, if I took the time to do this I'm a long way from being in distress.

Mind you, my DB did add that if I had spotted a good looking diver and wanted to be "rescued" it might be a good thing. I have yet to work out how I'm supposed to spot a good looking diver under all the rubber, masks and regs!!!!:smiley29: Any suggestions fellas?

UCFKnightDiver
11-07-2007, 19:06
if you spot me you will know what to look for lol :smiley36::smiley20:

Anne Eastwell
11-07-2007, 19:21
if you spot me you will know what to look for lol :smiley36::smiley20:


you're a tad young for me kiddo:smiley36:

WaScubaDude
11-07-2007, 19:45
Certified too many years ago to recall all the minute details.... but when I did my re-cert just a few months ago my DB told me not to put MOF as it was a sign of distress.

I'd have to agree with most of you, if I took the time to do this I'm a long way from being in distress.

Mind you, my DB did add that if I had spotted a good looking diver and wanted to be "rescued" it might be a good thing. I have yet to work out how I'm supposed to spot a good looking diver under all the rubber, masks and regs!!!!:smiley29: Any suggestions fellas?

If you are a guy, you look for the bubbles. If you are a woman, you look for the snorkel. Also depends on your orientation.

Puffer Fish
11-07-2007, 19:57
Certified too many years ago to recall all the minute details.... but when I did my re-cert just a few months ago my DB told me not to put MOF as it was a sign of distress.

I'd have to agree with most of you, if I took the time to do this I'm a long way from being in distress.

Mind you, my DB did add that if I had spotted a good looking diver and wanted to be "rescued" it might be a good thing. I have yet to work out how I'm supposed to spot a good looking diver under all the rubber, masks and regs!!!!:smiley29: Any suggestions fellas?

I would suggest just grabbing them all and sorting things out later...

Anne Eastwell
11-07-2007, 20:16
And by "grabbing them all...." you mean what exactly???? :smilie39::smilie39::smilie39::smilie39:

BuzzGA
11-07-2007, 20:22
I pull my mask down around my neck out of habit, and my wife does too...however she has long hair and I've had to help her adjust the straps a couple of times while floating on the surface so I can see arguments on both sides

Splitlip
11-07-2007, 20:46
Sheeshe.
8 hrs and 40 posts!

The sign of distress is not an "old school" thing. Look at Lloyd "Mike Nelson" Bridges and Jacques Cousteau.

I think I first was stigmatized in 1999.

I wear my mask pretty much where I please, but not often on my forehead because I don't want to loose it.
Before I enter the water it is in my hand. Don't want it fogging up. When I surface it normally stays in place until I am back on the boat.
If the water is calm, I certainlly might flip it on my head, rather than my neck so I can more comfortably speak. When the boat comes for pick up, mask gets put back in place.

WaScubaDude
11-07-2007, 23:26
To some degree it depends on the DB you are with. I am a "mask on face guy" I like to be ready to go right back under if the need should arise. Also, I tell my bud to keep his on or I will think he is freakin. Plus he can just stick his head under water to see how I am doing if I have not surfaced yet. I really do think divers should try to get really comfortable in the gear.

finflippers
11-08-2007, 00:10
I do not like the feel of my mask around my neck so I usually have my mask on my forehead when the water isn't choppy and I have never lost it. If the water is to choppy then I clip my chest strap through it and let it sit on my chest.

WV Diver
11-08-2007, 05:28
I was trained not to put my mask on my forehead and so I don't do it. I don't consciously think about where my mask is at any given time. I don't have to it has become second nature for me to leave it on my face until I am back and ready to duff my gear.

But I'm not going to come and try to rescue you if you do it. Common sense tells us when a real emergency is happening irregardless of where your mask may be at any given time.

I don't jump people about it if they decide to do it. Actually I don't even really notice.

In classes we put more stress on not doing it. But most people will do things the way they want once they get out on their own and get some experience.

I always try to start good habits from the beginning of learning anything new and soon those good habits become second nature and I don't have to think about it, I just do it. I think the mask on forehead falls into this category.

Silverlode
11-08-2007, 06:18
Same here. I don't tend to put my mask on my forehead now because of training. It did take a while to get used to because I swim and tend to put the goggles on forehead. Now I try to remember to put my goggles around my neck as well, so that it's consistent and I won't end up having to remember goggles on forehead, mask around neck etc.
It's probably a personal choice, I won't do it because I don't want to lose my mask.

Dive-aholic
11-08-2007, 07:20
PADI Open Water training considers a mask on the forehead as diver in distress. It depends on the instructor. I dive w/ 2 different LDS in the area. One doesn't say anything about it but the other is pretty hardcore against their divers wearing their mask on their foreheads. Many have received a friendly reminder like..."the next one I see w/his mask on his forehead is going to get to buy me an adult beverage after we're done" :smiley2:

No, some PADI open water instructors consider a mask on forehead as diver in distress. I'm a PADI instructor and tell my students about the MOF issue...with my mask on my forehead. I wear a bungied reg and can't put it around my neck. I don't normally dive in surf. It's been a while since I've looked over the material, but I don't recall anything in the PADI manuals about MOF being a sign of anything. So please don't put this on PADI. It's not the organization, it's some instructors, PADI and otherwise.

Navy OnStar
11-08-2007, 07:40
Just playing devil's advocate here. Most of us agree if we are in distress that we would be flailing...etc. I was taught that in a panic situation that divers tend to reject their gear on the surface, and although this hasn't happened to me, I could see it happening.
Situation: Diver panics on the surface. Flips up mask, spits out reg, flails and for what ever reason becomes unconscious. No longer flailing. He is bouyant and you look over. From a distance he looks fine because he is calm but needs you to look closely to realize his situation.

My OW instructor told us that if we want to wear our masks on our forehead....turn it around. That shows a deliberate act that no one in a panic would do. That's what I was taught and what I do.

There could be some merit to a single diver with their mask on the forehead being in distress.

Now, if there are multiple divers sitting around with masks on their forehead and some idiot shouts out "are you in distress"...Lock and Load!

OnStar

MSilvia
11-08-2007, 09:32
I wear a bungied reg and can't put it around my neck.
Me too. Mask on neck would interefere with reg access for me, so it's a non-starter.

scubaculture
11-08-2007, 09:48
I keep my mask on when at the surface, just like being ready for a situation that might come up that needs me to go back down. Either that or around my neck, keeping it on my forehead seems to cause the mask to fog up quicker too, maybe I just have a hot head

moosicman
11-08-2007, 12:25
I am presently getting my certification and i have been taught that the sign of a diver in distress is the waving of the arm over the head at surface...i haven't seen anyone mention this AT ALL, but i didn't really read every post completely, just skimmed...so sorry if you did mention it...but its PADI certification and the book has that sign and that sign ONLY for a diver in distress at the surface....and nothing was said about MOF....of course the wave of the arm is what i will use and though i'm not apt to have my MOF because i don't like the way that it feels and would want to be prepared for anything, if i WERE to do that and someone decided to get themselves a little attention as in mike_s' post, they will get the same and more from me....if its attention that they want and to prove some "point" then it is attention they will get....hehehehehe

Aspendiver
11-08-2007, 12:31
if its attention that they want and to prove some "point" then it is attention they will get....hehehehehe

Wow, you MOF guys are bad-ass!

:smiley2:

Splitlip
11-08-2007, 17:01
Certified too many years ago to recall all the minute details.... but when I did my re-cert just a few months ago my DB told me not to put MOF as it was a sign of distress.

I'd have to agree with most of you, if I took the time to do this I'm a long way from being in distress.



It is relatively recent concept that I am sure was developed simply to bully newbies.

texdiveguy
11-08-2007, 17:37
I don't wear a mask diving....but the few times I do--- I have left it in place ...I have worn it on my forehead in CALM shallow waters to get the gunk out of my eyes after surfacing....I have worn it around the neck.....spun it around to the back of my head....held it in my hand.....clipped it off to my bc. I as a general rule leave it in place till back on a firm surface...one major reason is that I am 'blind' without the corrective lens in the mask!!

I think anyone really to concerned with this matter should just take a recognized MOF Specialty course from the nearest LDS.

BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)
11-08-2007, 21:35
What is so wrong with this?

IMO, there's nothing wrong if you don't mind losing your mask. I saw it happen twice this year alone. One mask was recovered at 35 ft, the other is somewhere in the twilight zone.

moosicman
11-09-2007, 11:46
asked my instructor last night about this (he is an old navy marine fish) and he said that he prefers students wear it on their head for this reason: if you are at the surface and have to slam in your reg to breath and do a quick decent for some saftey reason and your mask is down around your neck, it could cause many OTHER complications...he said he would take losing a mask over the risks that could happen the other direction.....sounds like it is left up to personal opinion....

WV Diver
11-10-2007, 07:01
I have never really understood why this issue has always been so well discussed. I guess because I don't understand why most folks don't just leave the mask on till the diving is over. This, if anything, is what we should be teaching.

Then when you have an emergency and have to descend or whatever you are ready to go. Also, if you just leave your mask on it won't fog, it won't be lost, you won't have problems with waves or surf and your buddy can't spit in your eye. ha ha :smiley36:

Seems like an awful lot of us are spending a lot of time on the surface, talking about diving, instead of diving. :smiley2:

CompuDude
11-10-2007, 12:15
Every dive board has to have a MOF/NMOF discussion periodically. It seems to be a rule. LOL

Personally, since I wear a prescription mask, I also wear mine until it's time to take it off. Otherwise I'm blind.

Zyxistal
11-10-2007, 21:05
Every dive board has to have a MOF/NMOF discussion periodically. It seems to be a rule. LOL

Personally, since I wear a prescription mask, I also wear mine until it's time to take it off. Otherwise I'm blind.


I'm blind as a bat normally so I do the same, mask never leaves my eyes until I have my glasses in hand. Certainly do get some odd looks though walking around wearing my mask on land before a dive.

mitsuguy
11-12-2007, 11:44
Although it doesn't necessarily bother me, I prefer talking without my mask on...

specifically on shore dives, I always seem to be geared up before everyone else, so I'll spend 5-10 minutes sometimes just floating around talking - mask on forehead... also sometimes when I surface, I have the snotty nose thing, so, mask goes on forehead to clear that...

all other times, mask stays put...

jastark
11-14-2007, 15:17
When I got certified a while back our instructor had a rule that who ever wore their mask on their forehead had to buy him a beer. I think he got about 10 of them by the time our calss was finished! lol

coyote
11-14-2007, 17:32
I don't wear a mask diving....but the few times I do--- I have left it in place ...I have worn it on my forehead in CALM shallow waters to get the gunk out of my eyes after surfacing....I have worn it around the neck.....spun it around to the back of my head....held it in my hand.....clipped it off to my bc. I as a general rule leave it in place till back on a firm surface...one major reason is that I am 'blind' without the corrective lens in the mask!!

I think anyone really to concerned with this matter should just take a recognized MOF Specialty course from the nearest LDS.

:smilie39::smilie39:

Some people like to collect those little plastic cards.

5oclock
11-23-2007, 12:09
Competive swimmers wear gogles on forehead, around neck is a dead giveaway for a "non-swimmer", so out of 12 year habit, my I am a mof guy. If I ever lose it I will reconsider, until then...Ill risk it.

Puffer Fish
11-23-2007, 13:23
When I got certified a while back our instructor had a rule that who ever wore their mask on their forehead had to buy him a beer. I think he got about 10 of them by the time our calss was finished! lol
I used the "leaving your tank standing at the edge of the pool" for that...Really, the important part is to at least have some way to get free beer..

Flatliner
11-23-2007, 13:28
\Now can we take keepsakes from wrecks too.
:smilie39:
:smilie40:

jafo123
11-24-2007, 07:53
Distress will cause a diver to rip the mask off, not place it on the forehead. A distressed diver's mask will be under water because as soon as the diver hits the surface, the mask will be pulled completely off.

Again you have to take in the whole picture. I have been known to remove my mask on the surface to rinse it out (snot gobbers) not always putting it back on. Just depends sometimes.

dannybot
12-09-2007, 12:03
If you have instructors that are that anal about a mask on your forehead, it's time to look for better instructors....




PADI Open Water training considers a mask on the forehead as diver in distress.


Doesn't mean that PADI is right here..... It's just their clueless adding of a rule to the class that doesn't need to be added. I wonder if PADI actually has that printed in their OW material. Anyone know? (I didnt take a PADI OW class so I wouldn't know).

PADI "Open Water Diver manual" p. 156 second paragraph, also PADI "Rescue Diver manual" p. 50 second paragraph, forth bullet point. So if they say it, it must be true?

On my last trip, two divers lost their masks and snorkels in on a night dive. It was in 12 ft of water with 2ft sea grass on the floor. I lsearched for about 10 min, but only found one of the masks. In the defense of the divers, the DM specified that we do it this way, he insisted we not pull our masks sown around our necks. Some of us did pull them down anyway (none of those who did lost theirs), nobody on that trip dove again with that operator BTW.

adv_diver1
12-09-2007, 13:59
Yeah I have heard that one too. It is so easy to put on your forehead, but then the DISTRESS signal is out and you may owe alot of people beers!! LOL!

Navy OnStar
12-09-2007, 14:27
When I got certified a while back our instructor had a rule that who ever wore their mask on their forehead had to buy him a beer. I think he got about 10 of them by the time our calss was finished! lol
I used the "leaving your tank standing at the edge of the pool" for that...Really, the important part is to at least have some way to get free beer..
I do the same beer game with flight students. I will pull Circuit Breakers for different guages. If they don't notice it before take off it's a beer. I haven't had to buy alcohol for some time now!

RonFrank
12-09-2007, 17:11
[quote=mike_s;88659]I

On my last trip, two divers lost their masks and snorkels in on a night dive. It was in 12 ft of water with 2ft sea grass on the floor.

In the defense of the divers, the DM specified that we do it this way, he insisted we not pull our masks sown around our necks.

So if the DM told you not to turn on your air until after you started a decent to conserve air, would you do so? :smiley29:

I've been on a lot of boats, and have never had a DM tell me how to situate a mask other than to say to hold it when doing a giant stride, or Back roll....

WV Diver
12-09-2007, 18:54
Read the article in the Jan 08 issue of scuba diving magazine "Lessons for Life" and it may become more clear why I always stress to people to leave their mask on their face until they are seated back on the boat.

adv_diver1
12-09-2007, 18:59
The mask always goes DOWN around your neck... to prevent EXACTLY what happened to you.. and also not send out a DISTRESS signal... JOW course addressed.

Yikes... tell me the name of that group again... don't ever want to dive with them!!

mitsuguy
12-09-2007, 19:06
The mask always goes DOWN around your neck... to prevent EXACTLY what happened to you.. and also not send out a DISTRESS signal... JOW course addressed.

Yikes... tell me the name of that group again... don't ever want to dive with them!!

down around your neck would make it a lot harder to put back on if needed to in a hurry... on your forehead might lose it, but I've never had that issue, and can't imagine how anyone would...

as far as distress signal because its on the forehead, I can't imagine anyone would actually take the time to gently push their mask up a little in a distressed situation, I imagine it'd probably be thrown off if anything...

as someone else that used to swim competitively said, around the neck is the sign of a non-swimmer, and on the forehead is a sign of a swimmer...

MARTINB1368
12-09-2007, 20:51
Yep! Ive been one of those ones who had it on the ol forehead and next thing one of the guys diving with me says is "hey where is your mask" all's I could reply with is o sh__ !!! At the bottom of the lake. Im going to say its not a good thing at all.

WaScubaDude
12-09-2007, 21:02
Read the article in the Jan 08 issue of scuba diving magazine "Lessons for Life" and it may become more clear why I always stress to people to leave their mask on their face until they are seated back on the boat.

Give your weight belt up to the boat first. Blow the snot. then put your mask right back on your face. Give your fins up last. Get used to it.

Puffer Fish
12-09-2007, 21:25
Read the article in the Jan 08 issue of scuba diving magazine "Lessons for Life" and it may become more clear why I always stress to people to leave their mask on their face until they are seated back on the boat.
WV, I read that article, and what a sad story. There was a similar event that happened at the beginning of a dive this year during the "invade the Keys".

I believe it is easy to jump to the conclusion that taking the mask off somehow effected this...but there is a known reflex that some people have when they inhale saltwater, that can be fatal, as it shuts down the trachea. The resulting panic from not being able to breath can result in a lot of things happening, including removing their mask.

From what I can tell, not a lot is known about how long, and how extreme this response is, as it almost always happens in an environment where passing out, by itself will be fatal. But the unexpected nature of the event, and the fact that one really cannot breath is the issue. I doubt even the best trained person, if they did not know this was going to happen, would have a major issue dealing with it.

But, I would agree with you about not putting your mask on your head, unless you know that it is safe to do so, and surfacing in even slightly rough seas, is not the place.

Puffer Fish
12-09-2007, 21:28
Yep! Ive been one of those ones who had it on the ol forehead and next thing one of the guys diving with me says is "hey where is your mask" all's I could reply with is o sh__ !!! At the bottom of the lake. Im going to say its not a good thing at all.
Being a good mof'er takes some timing and skill, it is not for everyone... I have never lost a mask doing that...and actually have all the masks I have bought in the last 35 years...ok, some are a little stiff now... but they are all still here.

adv_diver1
12-09-2007, 21:42
I know I bought at least a 6 pack before I figured out the scene!!!

It seems as if this a tradition... maybe I should become an instructor! LOL !!!

Roughwater
12-09-2007, 22:06
Normally, I'm not a MOF person, but I must admit, there are times to MOF!

One of my favourites is to bait arrogant DM's. (This goes well with also calling your mast goggles, and asking for help with your flippers!) :smilie39:

Another thing MOF is good for is starting long forum threads. :smiley2:

WV Diver
12-10-2007, 05:40
Read the article in the Jan 08 issue of scuba diving magazine "Lessons for Life" and it may become more clear why I always stress to people to leave their mask on their face until they are seated back on the boat.
WV, I read that article, and what a sad story. There was a similar event that happened at the beginning of a dive this year during the "invade the Keys".

I believe it is easy to jump to the conclusion that taking the mask off somehow effected this...but there is a known reflex that some people have when they inhale saltwater, that can be fatal, as it shuts down the trachea. The resulting panic from not being able to breath can result in a lot of things happening, including removing their mask.

From what I can tell, not a lot is known about how long, and how extreme this response is, as it almost always happens in an environment where passing out, by itself will be fatal. But the unexpected nature of the event, and the fact that one really cannot breath is the issue. I doubt even the best trained person, if they did not know this was going to happen, would have a major issue dealing with it.

But, I would agree with you about not putting your mask on your head, unless you know that it is safe to do so, and surfacing in even slightly rough seas, is not the place.
I see what your saying Puff but in this particular case I think the point is that even though he removed his reg., had he not removed his mask, he would have been able to descend and recovery his reg as soon as the surface conditions became such that he found himself in trouble.

Probably will never know but he would certainly have had more options with his mask on.

mitsuguy
12-10-2007, 09:00
I see what your saying Puff but in this particular case I think the point is that even though he removed his reg., had he not removed his mask, he would have been able to descend and recovery his reg as soon as the surface conditions became such that he found himself in trouble.

Probably will never know but he would certainly have had more options with his mask on.

Although that is a decent reason to keep your mask on, this person might have been in over his head already.... Although I haven't read that article yet, it sounds like he was overcome by choppy water, ended up swallowing / breathing some, and drown maybe?

I have been swimming in the ocean hundreds of times (used to live in South Padre), and not one of them did I have a mask on, nor snorkel, nor regulator... Choppy water (surf), surge, undertow, it didn't matter, no mask and I was fine...

Which leads me to start a thread about diving and their water skills... look for a new post coming soon...

RonFrank
12-10-2007, 11:23
Read the article in the Jan 08 issue of scuba diving magazine "Lessons for Life" and it may become more clear why I always stress to people to leave their mask on their face until they are seated back on the boat.

This is a sad story. I however don't agree with the conclusion that the mask removal resulted in the accident, rather removal of the reg.

The other factor that the article does not mention is comfort in the water. He was a newish diver, but I think he also was new to the ocean.

If one grows up surfing, or sailing, or water skiing, or basically spending a lot of time around the ocean, 2' foot seas? Some saltwater in the mouth? Nothing new, nothing dangerous. Obviously this diver did not come from that background.

I agree with the advice that one should leave the mask if they are not comfortable in the water without it. OTOH, I dive with folks that will throw equipment into the water after a dive, and then free dive without a mask just for fun, and practice.

Maybe a more valuable lesson out of this should be, work on skills. PADI and all agencies teach full mask removal, and one should be able to remove a mask without freaking out either at the surface, or at depth.

This is my buddy James.

http://www.underwaterexploration.org/uploads/2007/11/turks3096.jpg

HERE (http://www.underwaterexploration.org/uploads/2007/11/turks3096.jpg) if you can't see the image. Notice, the current, the fins, the mask, the chicken! :smilie39: In strong current with a rough exit he opted to pull his gear off prior to exit. If folks are not this comfortable UW, maybe that is something to strive for.

mitsuguy
12-10-2007, 13:24
Read the article in the Jan 08 issue of scuba diving magazine "Lessons for Life" and it may become more clear why I always stress to people to leave their mask on their face until they are seated back on the boat.

This is a sad story. I however don't agree with the conclusion that the mask removal resulted in the accident, rather removal of the reg.

The other factor that the article does not mention is comfort in the water. He was a newish diver, but I think he also was new to the ocean.

If one grows up surfing, or sailing, or water skiing, or basically spending a lot of time around the ocean, 2' foot seas? Some saltwater in the mouth? Nothing new, nothing dangerous. Obviously this diver did not come from that background.

I agree with the advice that one should leave the mask if they are not comfortable in the water without it. OTOH, I dive with folks that will throw equipment into the water after a dive, and then free dive without a mask just for fun, and practice.

Maybe a more valuable lesson out of this should be, work on skills. PADI and all agencies teach full mask removal, and one should be able to remove a mask without freaking out either at the surface, or at depth.

This is my buddy James.

HERE (http://www.underwaterexploration.org/uploads/2007/11/turks3096.jpg) if you can't see the image. Notice, the current, the fins, the mask, the chicken! :smilie39: In strong current with a rough exit he opted to pull his gear off prior to exit. If folks are not this comfortable UW, maybe that is something to strive for.

Thats awesome.... it kinda goes to the thread I just posted (with this thread in mind) about how comfortable people feel in the water...

WaScubaDude
12-10-2007, 13:36
Read the article in the Jan 08 issue of scuba diving magazine "Lessons for Life" and it may become more clear why I always stress to people to leave their mask on their face until they are seated back on the boat.

This is a sad story. I however don't agree with the conclusion that the mask removal resulted in the accident, rather removal of the reg.

The other factor that the article does not mention is comfort in the water. He was a newish diver, but I think he also was new to the ocean.

If one grows up surfing, or sailing, or water skiing, or basically spending a lot of time around the ocean, 2' foot seas? Some saltwater in the mouth? Nothing new, nothing dangerous. Obviously this diver did not come from that background.

I agree with the advice that one should leave the mask if they are not comfortable in the water without it. OTOH, I dive with folks that will throw equipment into the water after a dive, and then free dive without a mask just for fun, and practice.

Maybe a more valuable lesson out of this should be, work on skills. PADI and all agencies teach full mask removal, and one should be able to remove a mask without freaking out either at the surface, or at depth.

This is my buddy James.

http://www.underwaterexploration.org/uploads/2007/11/turks3096.jpg

HERE (http://www.underwaterexploration.org/uploads/2007/11/turks3096.jpg) if you can't see the image. Notice, the current, the fins, the mask, the chicken! :smilie39: In strong current with a rough exit he opted to pull his gear off prior to exit. If folks are not this comfortable UW, maybe that is something to strive for.

James...James Bond

akbpilot
12-15-2007, 03:55
I didn't put my mask up to start with because of the training. After watching a guy lose his mask on my first ocean dive I don't do it now either. But, to each his own.

danielh03
12-15-2007, 23:11
Every dive board has to have a MOF/NMOF discussion periodically. It seems to be a rule. LOL

Personally, since I wear a prescription mask, I also wear mine until it's time to take it off. Otherwise I'm blind.


I feel your pain, and a perscription mask is about 3 times more expensive to replace! I wear mine around my neck because I cant stand the thought of having to buy another one... thats 200 bucks away from my dry suit fund!

Duckydiver
12-16-2007, 18:53
I keep my mask ove my eyes. I guess that makes me a MOE, or something.. :smilie39:


NMOF

scubajane
12-16-2007, 22:31
I wear my mask on my face until I'm on the boat. for a shore dive mask on face until I'm standing and walking then it's clipped to my bc. I don't like the mask around my neck for the same reason i don't wear a hood. I wear a beanie. even turtleneck sweaters bother me. no mask on forehead because the way it sits on my head/beanie makes the mask eager to shoot off my head and into King Triton's collection of lost toys.

teog
12-18-2007, 10:26
I agree with others that its a good way to have to buy a new mask. People in distress will rip it completely off.