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Scubling
07-20-2007, 16:20
Hey anyone know the age limit to become a nitrox diver.I realy want to be onebut i dont think im old enough http://scubatoys.com/forum/smileys/smiley25.gif

texdiveguy
07-20-2007, 16:28
Hey anyone know the age limit to become a nitrox diver.I realy want to be onebut i dont think im old enough http://scubatoys.com/forum/smileys/smiley25.gif

PADI:
All you need is your open water diver certification. (You must be 15
years of age or older).

smileys/smiley2.gif
</font></font>

Scubling
07-20-2007, 16:31
o i have my open diver cerification but im younger than 15

Vercingetorix
07-20-2007, 16:44
<DIV>Just out of curiosity, why are you looking at Nitrox?</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Nitrox is of little value (other than safety) if air consumption is limiting your bottom time. On the other hand, if you're hitting NDL before your tank runs out, then Nitrox may be beneficial.</DIV>

tc_rain
07-20-2007, 16:53
I didn't think ther was an age limit for the nitrox cert. I just thought you had tobe O/W cert

medic001918
07-20-2007, 17:31
I agree with the others. I don't believe that there is an age restriction on Nitrox. Just that you have to have your OW diver cert.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Shane</DIV>

texdiveguy
07-20-2007, 17:37
I 'think' both PADI and NAUI are still 15 years old.

thesmoothdome
07-20-2007, 17:37
From the PADI website:
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Must be a PADI Open Water Diver (or qualifying certification from another organization)</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Other specialties like Boat Diver:</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Must be a PADI Open Water Diver or Junior Open Water Diver (or qualifying certification from another organization)</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>So, I think it's correct to assume that PADI asks that you be 15 before you take the course. Sorry for the bad news bro. Keep diving!</DIV>

texdiveguy
07-20-2007, 17:42
Alex....you will be 15 soon enough....hang in there and keep diving!!

ScubaToys Larry
07-20-2007, 17:43
<div>Just out of curiosity, why are you looking at Nitrox?</div>
<div></div>
<div>Nitrox is of little value (other than safety) if air consumption is limiting your bottom time. On the other hand, if you're hitting NDL before your tank runs out, then Nitrox may be beneficial.</div>

Uh... safety is the value... That is the whole point. And let's take an analogy. You are I are going to drive cars to Chicago at 65 miles per hour. You drive a pinto that can barely make that speed, and I'll drive a big ole Lexus that could do 120. Yes, we both leave at the same time and arrive at the same time - but my ride is more comfortable, less fatiguing and safer.

Same with Nitrox. Even if I don't hit my NDL on a dive - did you know that 80% of the reported bends cases are within NDL levels? Why not build in safety. And it gives me less nitrogen absorption so maybe I can get that 3rd dive, or 4th dive in, or shorten my surface interval.

So safety, or more dives - that's what it's all about!

JahJahwarrior
07-20-2007, 18:08
Just tell people you are diving 21% nitrox. :)

thesmoothdome
07-20-2007, 18:23
For what it's worth, you can take the Advanced Jr. Open Water class, so you can still continue along with your education. Notsure what it entails, butit's worth looking into.

Dive-aholic
07-21-2007, 00:58
I agree with the others. I don't believe that there is an age restriction on Nitrox. Just that you have to have your OW diver cert.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Shane</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>There is an age restriction - 15 for most agencies. I don't know of an agency that allows nitrox certification before that age. It has to do with a lack of research on the effects of elevated oxygen levels on those under 15.</DIV>

Vercingetorix
07-21-2007, 08:21
Uh... safety is the value... That is the whole point. And let's take an analogy. You are I are going to drive cars to Chicago at 65 miles per hour. You drive a pinto that can barely make that speed, and I'll drive a big ole Lexus that could do 120. Yes, we both leave at the same time and arrive at the same time - but my ride is more comfortable, less fatiguing and safer.

Same with Nitrox. Even if I don't hit my NDL on a dive - did you know that 80% of the reported bends cases are within NDL levels? Why not build in safety. And it gives me less nitrogen absorption so maybe I can get that 3rd dive, or 4th dive in, or shorten my surface interval.

So safety, or more dives - that's what it's all about!

<DIV>You predicate your argument on the thesis that if a diver uses Nitrox, the diver will be safer.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>However, using Nitrox introduces additional variables that threaten safety: specifically, increased susceptibility to oxygen toxicity. This, you do not mention, despite the significantrisk. This negates your thesis. </DIV>
<DIV>Secondly, Nitrox reduces the depths at which one may dive. You may dive longer, just not as deep.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Your reference to "less fatiguing"; are you refering to the unsubstantiated claim that some divers on Nitrox feel more refreshed at the end of dive? This effect has been shown to be placebic. As yet, studies have shown no concrete relationship between using Nitrox and "feeling better" at dives end.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Thus, the best that we can say is that at the increased risk of one threat (oxygen toxicity), we reduce the threat of another (DCS), while reducing depth.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Finally, in reference to your analogy, driving the Lexusmay be safer, but it is a gas hog. Therefore, it's a more expensive ride. You forgot to mention that. Perceived increased safety vis-a-vis actual increased costs.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>And, let's get this out of the way: I am Nitrox certified.I don't have nearly Larry's experience below the surface. This discussion is not about experience; it is about Nitrox.</DIV>

tc_rain
07-21-2007, 11:08
It is safer if you dive with the air profiles and watch your depth as you learned while taking the class. With the air profile, you accumulate less nitrogen and stay within your depth, oxygen toxicity is not a problem.

texdiveguy
07-21-2007, 11:18
[QUOTE=ScubaToys Larry]<div>And, let's get this out of the way: I am Nitrox certified.I don't have nearly Larry's experience below the surface.

</div>

I am not sure 'how-much' recent u/w experience Larry has of late....smileys/smiley36.gif,,maybe he will let us know....he stays busy making all the good deals to his customers.

ScubaToys Larry
07-21-2007, 11:46
Well... where do I begin. You said that:
<div>
"You predicate your argument on the thesis that if a diver uses Nitrox, the diver will be safer."</div>
<div></div>And I believe it was you that started that thought



<div>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>Nitrox is of little value (other than safety)
</div>

So on your first post it is safer? But now it's not? Which side of the fence do you want on that one.

Secondly, you brought up some good points like:


<div></div>

<div>"However, using Nitrox introduces additional variables that
threaten safety: specifically, increased susceptibility to oxygen
toxicity."

But unfortunately, you go on with this tidbit:

"This, you do not mention, despite the significantrisk.
This negates your thesis. "

This negates my thesis?! I wrote a thesis on this? Hmmm And did you mention O2 tox on air? The O2 tox issues are covered in a basic class.. Like always breathing in an open water class... I am not teaching a nitrox class on this forum... but if you'd like me to..

I heard you took our basic beginner nitrox class last Wednesday, and it appears that you got the gist of the material down. If you want to take issue with my position on diving nitrox, I welcome your questions and discussions, but since I am the course director that taught the instructor that did your basic nitrox class less than a week ago... I might just have a bit more experience with it. I believe as of my last nitrox dive, I have approx 30 times more nitrox dives than you do dives... But as you said... this is not about experience - so we'll skip that part.

So then on to some real life questions... How many divers get bent each year in Cozumel? Any idea?

And how many O2 hits on nitrox do they have?

So when people are diving recreational limits, yes... I'll go with your first choice... Nitrox is safer.



You took issue with "Your reference to "less fatiguing"; are you refering to the
unsubstantiated claim that some divers on Nitrox feel more refreshed at
the end of dive?"

No... I said you would be less fatigued driving to Chicago in a Lexus...


<div>"Thus, the best that we can say is that at the increased risk of
one threat (oxygen toxicity), we reduce the threat of another (DCS),
while reducing depth."

Uh... yes... but since recreational depths are well within the limits of any threat of O2 tox - there is only added safety. If you want to take the stance that because you might dive to 150 feet you should not dive nitrox, then how about you might dive to 230 so don't dive air?
</div>
<div>

</div>
<div>"Finally, in reference to your analogy, driving the Lexusmay be
safer, but it is a gas hog. Therefore, it's a more expensive ride.
You forgot to mention that. Perceived increased safety vis-a-vis
actual increased costs."

Ok.. confusion comes over me again... you are back to nitrox is just perceived increased safety? I thought you hit the other side of that coin in several posts and paragraphs... but no matter... Yes it costs more. About 5 to 10 bucks a dive. So when I was on the live aboard in Truk, 20 dives, they charge an extra 100 bucks for nitrox throught the trip. My total cost on the trip with the airfare, hotel, live aboard, etc... about $3500. Sure... I'll splurge - make the trip $3600 and lesson the chance of me spending 3 days of my trip in a chamber.

I guess, in the end, people can have varying opinions of the safety of nitrox. Most dive operators I know require their DM's to use it. The Cayman Watersports Association required all divers leading dives in Cayman to use it...

But I might be wrong... along with them... and you are right. Who knows?
</div>
<div></div>


</div>
<div></div>

tc_rain
07-21-2007, 12:22
All posts aside, I will continue to dive nitrox. To me, less nitrogen is a good thing. It doesn't matter ifitsless fatiguingor not.

Vercingetorix
07-21-2007, 12:51
So on your first post it is safer? But now it's not? Which side of the fence do you want on that one. I did not quantify the safety factor in my original assertion.



I heard you took our basic beginner nitrox class last Wednesday, and it appears that you got the gist of the material down....but since I am the course director that taught the instructor that did your basic nitrox class less than a week ago... Nope, not me. If you'll examine my training records maintained by ST, you'll note no Nitrox certification therein. You did not train my Nitrox instructor.


My reference to cost was to continue your analogy about driving a Pinto versus Lexus. The Lexus will cost more to drive from here (Dallas) to Chicago.
<DIV>I thought your statement concerning "less fatiguing" was a backward reference to to some claim Nitrox is less fatguiing. My mistake.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Regardless, I'm simply saying (and this is the assertion of my 8:21AM post), is that we cannot simply state that Nitrox is not necessarily safer. It has it's own risks; else, we would not require additional training and a card to show the mixer that we may use Nitrox.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>The intent of my post was to spur discussion. It did. I do so by challenging status quo andblanket assertions. I'm seeking information here. Thank you</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
This negates my thesis?! I wrote a thesis on this? Hmmm Yes, you advanced a thesis (http://www.thefreedicti&#111;nary.com/thesis)</DIV>

ScubaToys Larry
07-21-2007, 14:41
Ooops! Yup.. you're right. I just looked really quick and say you took a class here - it was your open water about 6 months ago. I guess I just assumed you got your nitrox training here. My Bad! Who did you get nitrox certified with?? Was it a good class? How many Nitrox dives have you gotten in? Anywhere warm and blue yet?

And we might be cutting hairs on the thesis..

The one definition showing "thesis - a treatise advancing a new point of view resulting from research; usually a requirement for an advanced academic degree" and I'm not sure I'm saying anything new..

If a Thesis was that easy... I'd have stayed in college and gotten a degree!

awap
07-21-2007, 15:12
You are I are going to drive cars to Chicago at 65 miles per hour. You drive a pinto that can barely make that speed, and I'll drive a big ole Lexus that could do 120. Yes, we both leave at the same time and arrive at the same time - but my ride is more comfortable, less fatiguing and safer.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>See, I knew it. Dive shop owners aredriving Lexuses while their poor customers have to drive Pintos to afford to dive.</DIV>

Vercingetorix
07-21-2007, 15:21
Ooops! Yup.. you're right. I just looked really quick and say you took a class here - it was your open water about 6 months ago. I guess I just assumed you got your nitrox training here. My Bad! Who did you get nitrox certified with?? Was it a good class? How many Nitrox dives have you gotten in? Anywhere warm and blue yet?
<DIV>My dive club, ScubaDillos, had a PADI Nitrox certification class led by one of the PADI instructors. It was a good class, in that I really knew nothing going in. Where I had trouble, the instructor and DM (our club president) were very thorough when ensuring I and the other students understood the material.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I have no Nitrox dives yet. Due to my bad SAC rate, I am limited by amount of air in my tank versus hitting NDL limits. I may use it during upcoming dive on Flower Gardens with Mac Macherson.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>The only warm and blue dive I've done was Athens last week (no wetsuit required). My only other blue water dive was Catalina, which required a 7mm farmer john. I'm looking forward to someday diving the warm blue waters of Cozumel that everyone talks about.</DIV>
<DIV>

</DIV>
<DIV>And we might be cutting hairs on the thesis.. </DIV>
<DIV>
The one definition showing "thesis - a treatise advancing a new point of view resulting from research; usually a requirement for an advanced academic degree" and I'm not sure I'm saying anything new..
</DIV>
<DIV>
If a Thesis was that easy... I'd have stayed in college and gotten a degree!
http://www.scubatoys.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif</DIV>

Vercingetorix
07-21-2007, 15:23
<DIV>See, I knew it. Dive shop owners aredriving Lexuses while their poor customers have to drive Pintos to afford to dive.</DIV> If only. I talked with Joe last December about profit margins in the LDS business. Very slim. Seems to be that way industry wide. Not a get-rich-quick business. (but the fringe benefits, i.e., the newest gear all the time) are great.

awap
07-21-2007, 16:23
[
<DIV>I have no Nitrox dives yet. Due to my bad SAC rate, I am limited by amount of air in my tank versus hitting NDL limits. I may use it during upcoming dive on Flower Gardens with Mac Macherson.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I suggest you go for the nitrox at FGB even with the poor sac. I will still probably give you more bottom time than air and the first day of 5 dives may not kick youra$$quite as much.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>BTW, I don't see the "newest gear" as a big benefit. I retired most of my "new regs"in favor of the20 to 30+ year old metal regs.</DIV>

ScubaToys Larry
07-21-2007, 17:46
Lexus... right... I drive a 5 year old truck! Now, if I take off the 10% discount for being a member here... maybe I could afford one!

Dive-aholic
07-21-2007, 22:21
Your reference to "less fatiguing"; are you refering to the unsubstantiated claim that some divers on Nitrox feel more refreshed at the end of dive? This effect has been shown to be placebic. As yet, studies have shown no concrete relationship between using Nitrox and "feeling better" at dives end.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I will agree that there is no concrete relationship between using Nitrox and feeling better. However, I will also relate my own experience with breathing 100% oxygen at 20' while doing a decompression stop. I live with an old army injury that causes my knees and ankles to hurt everyday. Sometimes it's worse, sometimes it's better, but it's never completely gone...except after I do a 10-15' decompression stop on 100% O2. I also come out of the dive with a lot more energy than I had before. I've done similar dives with decompression on air and not felt the same. The O2 does something. It's just that no one has been able to concretely prove it yet.</DIV>

Vercingetorix
07-22-2007, 08:02
Placebic or not, if you think you feel better, then you feel better. What you feel is a perception in the first place. True. Reality is relative.

fire diver
07-22-2007, 09:48
I notice that my SAC drops when diving nitrox. I don't know if this is because the higher O2 levels affect the CO2 trigger or not. I just know that the lowest rates I've recorded have all been on NitrOx.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>FD</DIV>

Scubling
07-23-2007, 09:17
Oh but im a jr. o/w diver can i still do it http://scubatoys.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif

TxHockeyGuy
07-23-2007, 14:36
The only warm and blue dive I've done was Athens last week (no wetsuit required).

Just because the water has a blue tint to it doesn't make it a blue water dive!

creggur
07-23-2007, 15:18
I notice that my SAC drops when diving nitrox. I don't know if this is because the higher O2 levels affect the CO2 trigger or not. I just know that the lowest rates I've recorded have all been on NitrOx.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>FD</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Maybe you are just naturally thrifty, and use less air when you know it's more expensivehttp://www.scubatoys.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif</DIV>

cummings66
07-23-2007, 18:29
My air consumption does not drop when I use Nitrox, nor do I feel any better. I do feel better when I dive, but I'd feel the same if it was air or Nitrox. Lets see, higher risk negates benefits? Nope, can you control your buoyancy? Can you figure your MOD. If so then you negated the negatives there, thus negating the perceived negation...http://www.scubatoys.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>From what I understand you can only process so much O2, breathing higher mixtures doesn't mean you use more of it, what it means it that the higher concentration of O2 means there's less Nitrogen thus you reduce that intake.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>

TommyB
07-23-2007, 23:49
The only warm and blue dive I've done was Athens last week (no wetsuit required).

Just because the water has a blue tint to it doesn't make it a blue water dive!


Did you're hair turn Orange or some Odd Color :)

Dive-aholic
07-24-2007, 03:20
Oh but im a jr. o/w diver can i still do it http://scubatoys.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif



<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Only when you're 15. But that doesn't mean you can't get out there and enjoy diving on air!</DIV>

BSea
07-24-2007, 09:49
Let's see if I have got all of this straight.
<DIV>I don't have a Lexus</DIV>
<DIV>I do have a truck</DIV>
<DIV>I don't own a dive shop</DIV>
<DIV>I do dive Nitrox</DIV>
<DIV>I don't have a Pinto (But I did in college)</DIV>
<DIV>Hmmm I think that's everything.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>For what it's worth. When I was in my mid 20's, 3 dives a day would wear me out. Now at 51 I can dive 4 &amp; 5 dives a day. It still wears me out, but not as bad. Give me a placibo anyday.</DIV>

Scubling
07-26-2007, 08:25
Is it true that you can now be a jr. open water diver and still take nitrox???
<DIV>I heard it from a dive shop maneger</DIV>

ScubaToys Larry
07-26-2007, 09:23
Itmight depend on the agency. In Naui, at this point the age limit for Nitrox is 15, but I'm not up to speed on all the other agencies. Ask your instructor, and check with a Padi, SSI, SDI instructor and you may get a different answer. Don't know about the other agencies - but hopefully someone here can tell you about those and get this thread back to the original question and anwer for you!

Scubling
07-26-2007, 09:35
Ya it was PADI i know that,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>He said it was or will be 10 for nitrox</DIV>

JahJahwarrior
07-26-2007, 10:16
Why do you want to dive nitrox so badly? Are you paying for your own gas? :) It's more expensive than non EAN air, and while it provides benefits, I don't see why you couldn't wait a year or two, get your real OW cert, then get nitrox. (or does a Jr. cert "upgrade" when you are older?)

How old are you again? Do you usually call a dive because you hit NDL's or because you ran out of air?

Scubling
07-31-2007, 20:53
No my dad pays ( most of the time ) but it's safer and more reliable!!!

thesmoothdome
07-31-2007, 21:35
jr. cert upgrades at 15. PADI's website still says that min. age for nitrox is 15 though.

Scubling
08-02-2007, 09:47
Ok so i guess i have to wait till im 15....