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band
11-20-2007, 06:50
Hello Gentlemen!

I want to buy inexpensive (1st buy) regulator that I should service by myself.
I'm an engineer, so this isn't an issue for me.
So the question is in selection brand and model of the regulator first and second stages.
As I think, the “best choose” regulator should have:
- Reliable and proven design
- Available and not expansive repair/service kits and spare parts
- Easy disassemble/assemble without any "special" tools
- Available Service Manuals (desirable)
Now in my list of regulators are: Mares MR12 Rebel, Aqualung Titan and Tusa RS-130.

Joe & Larry, are any repair/service kits at your shop for sell? What price?

ScubaToys Larry
11-20-2007, 07:28
We have service kits available for any of the brands we sell, and as far as manuals, I'm slowly going through and getting every manual I can get my hands on posted up on our page: Scuba diving Manuals - Service Manuals - Regulator, Computer, Owners Manuals (http://www.scubatoys.com/manuals.asp)

For example, here is the page on a MR12 exploded view of the first stage: Mares Dealer Service Manual 2001 - Page 25 of 117 (http://www.scubatoys.com/servicemanuals/mares/mares_repair_manual_2001/Mares_Repair_Manual_200100025.html)

So I couldn't get you parts for aqualung... but no problem for mares or tusa... and depending on what brand and what kit, they run about 20 - 25 bucks but some can go as high as 50+ for a kit (like some poseidons).

keyshunter
11-20-2007, 12:15
Hello Gentlemen!

I want to buy inexpensive (1st buy) regulator that I should service by myself.
I'm an engineer, so this isn't an issue for me.
So the question is in selection brand and model of the regulator first and second stages.
As I think, the “best choose” regulator should have:
- Reliable and proven design
- Available and not expansive repair/service kits and spare parts
- Easy disassemble/assemble without any "special" tools
- Available Service Manuals (desirable)
Now in my list of regulators are: Mares MR12 Rebel, Aqualung Titan and Tusa RS-130.

Joe & Larry, are any repair/service kits at your shop for sell? What price?

Sherwoods are probably the simplest reg to service. An added benefit is that the rebuild kit for both stages retails for about $8.
I believe that ST still sells Sherwood.

The Titans are not too bad either. But most dealers are a real PITA about selling the kits.

in_cavediver
11-20-2007, 18:31
I gotta vote for Dive Rite. The regs are good for 2 years, the parts are readily available and the regs breathe great. Zeagle is a very close second. Might be why we have 4 Dive Rite Regs and 4 Zeagles (plus an older sherwood)

You should be able to get either a DR 2500 or Zeagle Envoy setup very reasonably.

radelow
11-21-2007, 12:26
So here is (maybe) a silly question. If parts are $25-$50 and Scubatoys offers free parts plus $50 to service why would you self-service? For the $25 (or not at all if parts are $50) premium you get the piece of mind knowing that regulator was not just serviced but also tested by experts that do it every day. Not you say you couldn't do it but being an engineer versus a service tech that has been doing this day in and out isn't really the same.

Puffer Fish
11-21-2007, 12:32
So here is (maybe) a silly question. If parts are $25-$50 and Scubatoys offers free parts plus $50 to service why would you self-service? For the $25 (or not at all if parts are $50) premium you get the piece of mind knowing that regulator was not just serviced but also tested by experts that do it every day. Not you say you couldn't do it but being an engineer versus a service tech that has been doing this day in and out isn't really the same.
Not silly at all, and ST has test and evalution equipment that most people do not have... but if you only trust yourself, then you most likely will buy the test equipment.

band
11-21-2007, 13:10
So here is (maybe) a silly question. If parts are $25-$50 and Scubatoys offers free parts plus $50 to service why would you self-service? For the $25 (or not at all if parts are $50) premium you get the piece of mind knowing that regulator was not just serviced but also tested by experts that do it every day. Not you say you couldn't do it but being an engineer versus a service tech that has been doing this day in and out isn't really the same.
Not silly at all, and ST has test and evalution equipment that most people do not have... but if you only trust yourself, then you most likely will buy the test equipment.
First of all please look at my location - for pass service in ST I should pay for two overseas shipment: +$60-$70.
About test equipment - think that all I need it is presure gauge for set intermediate presure after first stage.
Think I should have some additional equipment?

tc_rain
11-21-2007, 13:10
I agree with everyone above. Why do it yourself when it can be done professionally for the same amount of money or just slightly more. I think my local LDS charges $35.00 to do a yearly service on my regs (don’t quote me on this since it has been close to a year). I know Aqualung offers parts free for the life of the regs, provided they are serviced regularly. If the part kits are $25.00 and you can have the service done by a professional for $10.00 more, why would you do it yourself?

radelow
11-21-2007, 13:13
Ahha. Ukraine...might be a problem. Although there are no dive shops in your City? There were dive shops in Beijing so I assume there would be some in the Ukraine.

fireflock
11-21-2007, 13:17
Unless you have a ton of gear you don't do it to save money. You do it because you like understanding how stuff works, you trust yourself more than anyone else, you've seen more than 1 broken reg that worked fine _before_ it was sent in for service, you discovered how much training is really needed to become factory certified, and so on.....

Most of all, it's fun to mess around with dive gear.

Rich

BSea
11-21-2007, 13:33
Unless you have a ton of gear you don't do it to save money. You do it because you like understanding how stuff works, you trust yourself more than anyone else, you've seen more than 1 broken reg that worked fine _before_ it was sent in for service, you discovered how much training is really needed to become factory certified, and so on.....

Most of all, it's fun to mess around with dive gear.

Rich
I agree. I service all my own gear. It's not rocket science, but it does take a little training, or at least some studying. And, because it's your own gear, you can be as particular as you want to be.

band
11-21-2007, 13:48
Ahha. Ukraine...might be a problem. Although there are no dive shops in your City? There were dive shops in Beijing so I assume there would be some in the Ukraine.

It isn't a really problem to have gear serviced in my country. I know for sure that Aqualung parts are not a problem, maybe Mares too, but doubt about Tusa...
But I want to do service by myself - first of all it is just interesting for me! I want ot spend time for it!

BSea
11-21-2007, 13:56
Ahha. Ukraine...might be a problem. Although there are no dive shops in your City? There were dive shops in Beijing so I assume there would be some in the Ukraine.

It isn't a really problem to have gear serviced in my country. I know for sure that Aqualung parts are not a problem, maybe Mares too, but doubt about Tusa...
But I want to do service by myself - first of all it is just interesting for me! I want ot spend time for it!
You should look at scuba tools (http://www.scubatools.com/). They have a lot of specialty tools that will make the servicing job much easier. I have several of their tools, and everything they sell it top of the line. The also have a book on regulator repairs.

Another option is Vance Harlow's SCUBA REGULATOR MAINTENANCE AND REPAIR (http://airspeedpress.com/newregbook.html)I don't either of the books, but I'll probably end up with 1 or both someday.

awap
11-21-2007, 15:45
Why do it yourself when it can be done professionally for the same amount of money or just slightly more.

Because some of those professionals are incompetent. When I first started diving, I had my regs "professionally" serviced for the first 3 years. Each year was a different shop and a different set of problems with the serviced regs. So I started DIY about 10 years ago. I'm now maintaining about 7 sets of regulators and it costs me under $50 per year for parts - total. And the only problem I now have with regs is explaining to my wife why we needed another one. It is enjoyable servicing your own regulators.

in_cavediver
11-21-2007, 15:46
So here is (maybe) a silly question. If parts are $25-$50 and Scubatoys offers free parts plus $50 to service why would you self-service? For the $25 (or not at all if parts are $50) premium you get the piece of mind knowing that regulator was not just serviced but also tested by experts that do it every day. Not you say you couldn't do it but being an engineer versus a service tech that has been doing this day in and out isn't really the same.

Here's a few reasons why I do it myself

1) I rebuild when they need it, not by the calendar (at 9, it'd be $450 assuming I got free parts but since I didn't buy from ST, I would pay parts too!)
2) Postage costs shipping back and forth
3) I want to be able to fix it wherever I am. And yes, I have set in a hotel room rebuilding a reg before.
4) No offense to ST, but I don't know them. I have not been to their shop and I don't trust my regs to just anyone.

Now parts costs, depending on the make - they may or may not be free. Also depends on the 'warranty' or history. No used regs get free parts (I believe ST says free parts for regs bought from them).

CompuDude
11-21-2007, 16:39
Salvo is another good option to look at. Well-regarded, simple and reliable. Very minor differences between Salvo regs and the DiveRite / OxyCheq regs. Parts are sold online direct from Salvo.

brandon
11-21-2007, 18:10
I'd love to learn to service my own gear. I've read the manuals, taken apart a old regulator... it really doesn't seem that hard. I like tinkering, and have a fair degree of mechanical skill.

But for $50, it's easier and more convenient for me to just send them in to Scubatoys every year.

Now... if I was paying the $125-150 some of my buddies are paying to service their gear, I'd pony up the money for the tools and testing equipment to do it myself.

-B

pyre24
02-10-2008, 23:48
i would love to learn how to service regulators and other gear also. never know when it might come handy

captain
02-11-2008, 08:17
Scuba Tools is going out of bussiness and they are closing out their inventory.
I have rebuilt a regulator sitting on the deck of a rocking boat offshore.

Just like you call the person who finished last in his class at medical school "doctor" some regulator tech are better than others but they are all called regulator techs so it hard to know who finished first in class or last.

BSea
02-11-2008, 10:17
Scuba Tools is going out of bussiness and they are closing out their inventory.
Well, that's bad news. Their tools were 2nd to none.

KGNickl
02-11-2008, 10:20
Not sure if I would try to service my own gear. For example I service my car and mess up it breaks down, while with scuba gear I mess up and I drown or hope I have a good buddy with me. I guess if I had a friend to teach my for the first 2-3 times who is certified to service gear I might give it a try.

awap
02-11-2008, 17:41
Not sure if I would try to service my own gear. For example I service my car and mess up it breaks down, while with scuba gear I mess up and I drown or hope I have a good buddy with me. I guess if I had a friend to teach my for the first 2-3 times who is certified to service gear I might give it a try.


So you don't work on yourcar's brakes? Screw that up and it can be a threat to you, anyone else in your car, and other vehicles around you.

awap
02-11-2008, 17:43
Scuba Tools is going out of bussiness and they are closing out their inventory.
I have rebuilt a regulator sitting on the deck of a rocking boat offshore.

Just like you call the person who finished last in his class at medical school "doctor" some regulator tech are better than others but they are all called regulator techs so it hard to know who finished first in class or last.

I don't think they get a test or grades - just a T-shirt. Watch out for the ones wearing their new shirt backwards.

in_cavediver
02-11-2008, 20:59
Not sure if I would try to service my own gear. For example I service my car and mess up it breaks down, while with scuba gear I mess up and I drown or hope I have a good buddy with me. I guess if I had a friend to teach my for the first 2-3 times who is certified to service gear I might give it a try.

Actually, excepting rebreathers, you have protocols and training to deal with every problem bad gear could give. Cars are lot more scary since some cases, especially with brakes, you may not have an out or training to get you home safely.

Remember, a gear failure is not an emergency (even total gas loss). Its your reaction to that which can cause an emergency.

CompuDude
02-11-2008, 21:35
A LOT fewer parts with scuba regulators, too. (compared to cars)

mitchy
02-12-2008, 12:17
We have service kits available for any of the brands we sell, and as far as manuals, I'm slowly going through and getting every manual I can get my hands on posted up on our page: Scuba diving Manuals - Service Manuals - Regulator, Computer, Owners Manuals (http://www.scubatoys.com/manuals.asp)

For example, here is the page on a MR12 exploded view of the first stage: Mares Dealer Service Manual 2001 - Page 25 of 117 (http://www.scubatoys.com/servicemanuals/mares/mares_repair_manual_2001/Mares_Repair_Manual_200100025.html)

So I couldn't get you parts for aqualung... but no problem for mares or tusa... and depending on what brand and what kit, they run about 20 - 25 bucks but some can go as high as 50+ for a kit (like some poseidons).

Getting any Sherwood manuals online soon? Specifically Blizzard?

Foo2
02-12-2008, 13:39
This may be a dumb question, but if you service your own equipment, will your warranty still be valid? Or does it have to be by a certified tech?

awap
02-12-2008, 13:50
This may be a dumb question, but if you service your own equipment, will your warranty still be valid? Or does it have to be by a certified tech?

In all cases that I know of, it will void your warranty. But what value do you see in a warranty anyway? In some cases (scubapro and aqualung), you must pay a significant premium up front ($100 to $300) and then an annual fee (for service) of $50 to $100 per year. My DIY servicing costs me (once setup with manuals and tools) about $5 per kit per year and I am maintaining a total of 7 kits.

band
07-28-2009, 13:19
Hello Larry,

I have mailed to Joe today and asked about service kit for my TUSA RS130, that I bought here.

Curiously, but he answered, that: "also we can not service kits for the Tusa Regulators unless you are a certified Tusa Reg technician..."

What have I do?


We have service kits available for any of the brands we sell, and as far as manuals, I'm slowly going through and getting every manual I can get my hands on posted up on our page: Scuba diving Manuals - Service Manuals - Regulator, Computer, Owners Manuals (http://www.scubatoys.com/manuals.asp)

For example, here is the page on a MR12 exploded view of the first stage: Mares Dealer Service Manual 2001 - Page 25 of 117 (http://www.scubatoys.com/servicemanuals/mares/mares_repair_manual_2001/Mares_Repair_Manual_200100025.html)

So I couldn't get you parts for aqualung... but no problem for mares or tusa... and depending on what brand and what kit, they run about 20 - 25 bucks but some can go as high as 50+ for a kit (like some poseidons).

Flatliner
07-29-2009, 22:17
Hello Larry,

I have mailed to Joe today and asked about service kit for my TUSA RS130, that I bought here.

Curiously, but he answered, that: "also we can not service kits for the Tusa Regulators unless you are a certified Tusa Reg technician..."

What have I do?


We have service kits available for any of the brands we sell, and as far as manuals, I'm slowly going through and getting every manual I can get my hands on posted up on our page: Scuba diving Manuals - Service Manuals - Regulator, Computer, Owners Manuals (http://www.scubatoys.com/manuals.asp)

For example, here is the page on a MR12 exploded view of the first stage: Mares Dealer Service Manual 2001 - Page 25 of 117 (http://www.scubatoys.com/servicemanuals/mares/mares_repair_manual_2001/Mares_Repair_Manual_200100025.html)

So I couldn't get you parts for aqualung... but no problem for mares or tusa... and depending on what brand and what kit, they run about 20 - 25 bucks but some can go as high as 50+ for a kit (like some poseidons).

So what response did you get?

band
07-30-2009, 11:41
Hello
So what response did you get?

Still waiting for response, but looks like I couldn't have any
parts from ST, as Joe said...

Flatliner
07-31-2009, 22:18
Joe,

What's up with this? Given what Larry said pre-purchase, it doesn't seem like ST to me?

DevilDiver
07-31-2009, 22:52
Joe,

What's up with this? Given what Larry said pre-purchase, it doesn't seem like ST to me?

If you want to get Joe you will need to call the shop or send a PM. He will not be looking on the threads of the forum.

band
08-07-2009, 03:28
Joe,

What's up with this? Given what Larry said pre-purchase, it doesn't seem like ST to me?

As I wrote, I have answer from Joe - negative, but nothing form Larry.

Actually I bought Tusa RS-130 mostly because I was promised by Larry to have possibility to buy service kits from ST, then make service by myself.

I have inspected my regulator: O-rings and HP seat are good enough for now, but I want to have "spare parts" for a case that I need to repair regulator "in-feild", durring dive safari...

Still hope to hear some comments from Larry...

SeaHuntFan
08-20-2009, 02:49
I know I have been away from diving for a while (last dove in mid 80s), but when did we start servicing regulators yearly. I have dove my Calypso, at least 300 times, and never opened it - and I never knew anyone who did (a ran around with tropical fish collectors on Oahu). Never had it serviced and it still works perfectly.

Have regulators gotten so fragile and unreliable that they need to be rebuilt every year?? Or perhaps have modern divers gotten squishy. To be honest, I have never ever seen a diver dive with more than one second stage, much less two or more regulators. An octopus is an animal, with arms and suckers. We have gone over the deep end.

Although I was NASDS certified in 1972, I never had a c-card wince I lost it in 1973, and never was asked to produce one, not for air, to book on a dive boat or buy equipment.

mrmccoy
08-20-2009, 18:12
that was 20years ago ............

jupitertreasures
09-16-2009, 14:11
Pretty much all regs require at least one special tool.