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AMASKU8200
11-29-2007, 23:31
Recently I Was Diving With A New Reg Set And I Was Real Glad That I Had A Separate Octo. My Primary Developed A Glitch And Began To Get Real Hard To Breath. We Were Only Half Way Through The Dive And I Had Plenty Of Air But It Just Kept Getting Harder To Breath. I Switched To My Octo And Finished The Dive. If I Had Not Had A Separate Octo This Would Not Have Been Possible. During The Surface Interval The Dive Instructor Adjusted The Feed And Its Worked Great Since. This Is My Main Reason That I Don't Like Intragreated Octos.

texdiveguy
11-29-2007, 23:50
Welcome to the board and to scuba diving!!

I never have been a fan of octo/inflator combo's for a number of reasons. When I used to dive a traditional recreational scuba reg. set-up I used a standard octo also.

Have fun and be safe!

DivingCRNA
11-30-2007, 05:21
Recently I Was Diving With A New Reg Set And I Was Real Glad That I Had A Separate Octo. My Primary Developed A Glitch And Began To Get Real Hard To Breath. We Were Only Half Way Through The Dive And I Had Plenty Of Air But It Just Kept Getting Harder To Breath. I Switched To My Octo And Finished The Dive. If I Had Not Had A Separate Octo This Would Not Have Been Possible. During The Surface Interval The Dive Instructor Adjusted The Feed And Its Worked Great Since. This Is My Main Reason That I Don't Like Intragreated Octos.

I have an inflator octo. It is not on my gear though. I took cavern, and there are a lot of air sharing drills and the octo inflator sucks to share air with for very long. Mainly because you cannot really turn your head at all. I am back to a regular octo. Wanna buy my inflator octo?

Puffer Fish
11-30-2007, 06:32
I have both..use the inflator on shallow dives...octo on deeper ones (I know...switching gear). That means, at times I have three second stages...just in case we have a party OOA situation.

SarahBella
11-30-2007, 06:55
I have only seen the integrated Octo in action a couple of times...its looks nice because the rig has one less hose to worry about, but I don't like the idea of having to pass the primary to the person in need. If I had one I would probably still dive with a backup secondary-I did all my training that way and would feel like I was missing something if it was not there.

moosicman
11-30-2007, 07:02
during a dive for my cert. one of the other students bought an octo/inflator as his beginning set up after we had been, thus far, trained with a separate octo and reg set up. so during some of the skills it became awfully difficult for him to breath out of the SNORKEL that he thought was his octo/inflator. he would grab for the octo and get the snorkel in the heat of the moment and not realize it. wasn't a problem as he didn't inhale, figured out his mistake, and fixed it, but it made me nervous, so i'm not a fan of the octo/inflators. they cost more anyway, right?...we did have a big laugh with him, saying that he was by far the better scuba diver of us all because he could breath on a snorkel from 35 feet. :D

rfreddo
11-30-2007, 10:25
If I Had Not Had A Separate Octo This Would Not Have Been Possible.

Why? Either way, you are breathing off your backup, and making a decision to continue the dive with one less level of redundancy. My personal choice, and probably my budy's as well, would be to end the dive at that point, but that's just my conservative nature.

If the concern is that the ability to vent, freedom of motion, breathability, etc. are somehow hindered by the use of combo vs. independent octo, I can say from my own experience with my Octo-Z that I can ascend, descend or just swim around pretty darn close to as easily with my combo in my mouth as I can with my primary. As far as breathabilty, I've breathed off my combo at 95' without noticeable degredation in breathability, and find it better in most cases that the rental octos I've used in the past.

Just my 2 cents, but there seems to be a lot of bad publicity on the combos based on conjecture rather than experience. I respond to these threads often, and always end with something along the lines of "when you're OOA, feel free to pass me up if you don't like my configuration." Tongue in cheek of course, but I think it's a valid point.

Steve Scuba
11-30-2007, 16:28
[ I respond to these threads often, and always end with something along the lines of "when you're OOA, feel free to pass me up if you don't like my configuration." Tongue in cheek of course, but I think it's a valid point.

LOL. Very good point rfreddo. That's really what it comes down to: personal choice.

RonFrank
11-30-2007, 16:44
The octo inflater donates like a long hose, and that I like in that I dive both. My travel setup has an inflater, my cold setup has a backup.

The octo inflater IMO has one downside, and that is that it creates a bit more task loading if you do have to breath off it. IOW's, one has to be ready to dump air while breathing off this, and sharing air.

Those scenarios rarely occur, but what is more import is that you are prepared to deal with an OOA situation with your particular equipment configuration vs. what that configuration is. Likewise your buddy needs to be aware of what you are using.

BSea
11-30-2007, 16:46
If I Had Not Had A Separate Octo This Would Not Have Been Possible.

Why? Either way, you are breathing off your backup, and making a decision to continue the dive with one less level of redundancy. My personal choice, and probably my budy's as well, would be to end the dive at that point, but that's just my conservative nature.

If the concern is that the ability to vent, freedom of motion, breathability, etc. are somehow hindered by the use of combo vs. independent octo, I can say from my own experience with my Octo-Z that I can ascend, descend or just swim around pretty darn close to as easily with my combo in my mouth as I can with my primary. As far as breathabilty, I've breathed off my combo at 95' without noticeable degredation in breathability, and find it better in most cases that the rental octos I've used in the past.

Just my 2 cents, but there seems to be a lot of bad publicity on the combos based on conjecture rather than experience. I respond to these threads often, and always end with something along the lines of "when you're OOA, feel free to pass me up if you don't like my configuration." Tongue in cheek of course, but I think it's a valid point.
I have to agree with rfreddo here. if you wanted to continue the dive, you could almost as easily have done that with the octo/inflator. I too would have ended the dive if my primary went out. But that's me. I'm not saying you did anything wrong.

I have used octo/inflators, and still use 1 for trips. I like the 1 less hose thing. But for normal diving, or more advanced diving, I use a traditional octo.

redneckdiver52
11-30-2007, 16:53
I personally don't like the integrated octo. I have used both and I just don't like having to give up my primary. Especially after I did my rescue course. When people are panicky they want to jerk your primary out of your mouth because they don't see a secondary. I like having a secondary that is brightly colored and easy to pass off to someone. Feels safer to me. I could easily do either one just prefer the secondary over the integrated setup.

BSea
11-30-2007, 16:57
I personally don't like the integrated octo. I have used both and I just don't like having to give up my primary. Especially after I did my rescue course. When people are panicky they want to jerk your primary out of your mouth because they don't see a secondary. I like having a secondary that is brightly colored and easy to pass off to someone. Feels safer to me. I could easily do either one just prefer the secondary over the integrated setup.
Don't think that just because it's yellow they will grab that 1st. A paniced diver will grab anything available, and it's usually the primary from what I 've been told. Either way, it's you that need to know where your octo is located. And an octo/inflator is very easy to find.

DivingCRNA
11-30-2007, 17:10
I personally don't like the integrated octo. I have used both and I just don't like having to give up my primary. Especially after I did my rescue course. When people are panicky they want to jerk your primary out of your mouth because they don't see a secondary. I like having a secondary that is brightly colored and easy to pass off to someone. Feels safer to me. I could easily do either one just prefer the secondary over the integrated setup.

Not agency bashing, but are you SSI? You sound like the local SSI instructor.

I dive a long hose and prefer to pass it off and use my octo. My octo and primary are the exact same reg and if I do not have confidence in it, I should not be diving with it. My secondary is also bungeed around my neck, so I know right where it is.

If someone is out of air, they are gonna take your primary because they know a reg in you mouth is one with air. You might as well be prepared for it.

A panicked person is not going to look for your pretty yellow "only take this one" regulator.

Navy OnStar
11-30-2007, 20:22
Regardless of which setup I have (I have the integrated inflator octo BTW) My dive is over if I'm using my secondary. No amount of bottom time is worth continuing a dive with any type of reg malfunction. I like the integrated unit. How many times do you grab your inflator during a dive? How many times do you grab your Octo? Which one do you think you could find quicker? I use the inflator enough that I'm sure I could grab it quickly if a paniced diver grabbed my primary. Just my 2psi

navyhmc
11-30-2007, 21:26
I have to agree with Navy OnStar. Maybe it's me and my NAVOSH and ORM background (Navy OnStar knows what I'm talking about-btw, I'm a retired HMC) but about the time I have to switch to my octo, the dive is now over and it's time to go topside.

Personally, I have never been a fan of the octo-inflator combo. Even whe Scubapro came out the original Air-1 and the upgraded Air-2 I just don't feel it gives me a good control over my BC. As for being able to grab my octo quickly if I need it, that's a simple psycho-motor skill. Remove primary and reach down into my left BC pocket and there it is. I put it there before the dive and during the dive I make a check of it's location several times.

Now that said, if the inflator/octo combo works for you. Good to go.

I have a buddy that's working up to his Tech diver and uses the 7' primary hose and the rationale towards it's use does make sense. I am giving consideration to maybe making use of it in the future.

navyhmc
11-30-2007, 21:28
Don't think that just because it's yellow they will grab that 1st. A paniced diver will grab anything available, and it's usually the primary from what I 've been told. Either way, it's you that need to know where your octo is located. And an octo/inflator is very easy to find.

My instruction from way-way back had the "They'll grab your regulator when paniced" lesson in it too. Makes sense when you think about it: They know that one works! In a less than panic driven state, a diver will most likely go for your octo, but just in case...

Navy OnStar
12-01-2007, 10:53
I have to agree with Navy OnStar. Maybe it's me and my NAVOSH and ORM background (Navy OnStar knows what I'm talking about-btw, I'm a retired HMC) but about the time I have to switch to my octo, the dive is now over and it's time to go topside.

I have a buddy that's working up to his Tech diver and uses the 7' primary hose and the rationale towards it's use does make sense. I am giving consideration to maybe making use of it in the future.

Yep. Funny how the training thing works. Being the Squadron Safety Officer I have to promote ORM and it justs makes sense to err on the side of caution.

I too am flirting with the long primary hose. I don't know if I'll go to 7ft yet. I thinking 5ft for now. I have to see some different setups in person before I make my decision.

drifter136
12-01-2007, 12:05
navyhmc or Navy OnStar:

This might be a stupid question, with an obvious answer, but I had a question about using a long hose on main and short hose on octo. Would the short hose of the octo be ran over the shoulder like the primary usually is and the long hose of the primary run under the arm like the octo typically is? Thanks!

navyhmc
12-01-2007, 12:49
Not a DIR or Tech diver, but I do dive with one. Since Tech divers invariably use doubles, the primary is on the diver's right loops down below the wing then up across the chest and looped around the neck-this makes it easy to unwrap and give to the diver who needs it. Giving your buddy your primary in an emergency makes sense, that way the two of you don't have to be face to face.

The octo is usually on the divers left tank and is drapped across the divers back and clipped to a d ring on the shoulder strap with a dog clip that is tied to the regulator hose with an easily broken conection-just in case the dog clip is jammed or the situation creates the need to grab it now!

No stupid questions-but be warned, I do have stupid answers (just not this time!) Did this answer your question? If not, PM me...:smiley20:

drifter136
12-01-2007, 12:55
That answered my question very well. Thank you. I've seen a few pics of a tech diver's rig and that helps explain where all of those hoses would be going when on the diver and why they were angled down and criss-crossed behind the tanks.

Splitlip
12-01-2007, 15:41
I dive with a necklaced secondary, not a conventional octo, I would give up my primary to an OOA diver.

I have also used and own an Atomic SS1. This will be going on my daughter's BC as soon as I finalize which of my regs will be hers. (Propriatary LP hose for the SS1.)

I much prefer the integrated inflator/oct to the standard octo clipped off "someplace". Especially here in my hood where I am diving open water.
How many times do you see an octo dragging or floating? When you need your back up, you need to know where it is. Right on your chest where you have been handling it 10 times already during the dive to adjust your buoyancy..and it cannot float away.

The worst case scenario that I envision with a convental octo..after your back roll, giant striide or whatever, your conventional oct 2nd stage has broken free from it's retainer and is drifting, dragging floating someplace. Another diver approches and calmly signals out of air and waits for you to pass him the octo. You don't know where it is! So the OOA diver patiently hunts around the golden triangle trying to locate your octo, right? Sure...
Fact is, he will take your 2nd stage out of your mouth leaving you to suck water.
With your alternate attached to your LP hose you will pass him your primary or if he comes out of your blind spot and snatches your primary, you have a 2nd stage at the ready for yourself.

I prefer the necklace myself. Behind that an integrated octo inflator.

navyhmc
12-01-2007, 17:58
I guess I should have added that as well Splitlip. I too have seen a lot of folks have their octo necklaced in such a way that it is extremely easy to access by the diver-giving away the primary in the process to the distress diver. mea culpa.

UCFKnightDiver
12-01-2007, 18:44
breathing from an octo inflator isnt it the idea to donate your primary???

Navy OnStar
12-01-2007, 19:01
breathing from an octo inflator isnt it the idea to donate your primary???
Yes, that is really the only way to do it. The inflator hose is so short it's not really that comfortable for the person who is wearing it, much less to give it to someone else.

I have the integrated inflator/octo and I have been thinking about getting a longer primary hose to allow a more comfortable distance between me and someone in an OOA situation. I don't want to go to a 7ft hose but I'm thinking a 5ft hose with the extra length tucked in the bcd.

PsychDiver
12-02-2007, 08:27
I have both octo/inflator and regular octo. I like the reduncancy. As far as the poor comfort level with an octo/ionflator while using it. I can handle it for the one to two minutes it takes me to get to the surface since I don't do deco dives.

Splitlip
12-02-2007, 08:42
breathing from an octo inflator isnt it the idea to donate your primary???
Yes, that is really the only way to do it. The inflator hose is so short it's not really that comfortable for the person who is wearing it, much less to give it to someone else.

I have the integrated inflator/octo and I have been thinking about getting a longer primary hose to allow a more comfortable distance between me and someone in an OOA situation. I don't want to go to a 7ft hose but I'm thinking a 5ft hose with the extra length tucked in the bcd.

If you go with the 5 ft, you should still wrap it under your arm, across your chest and behind your neck just as you would a 7ft hose. Only difference is there is less scope, so you don't need to tuck it under a cannister etc., nor do you need to tuck behind a waist belt.
I have my own issues with a 5 ft hose, so I now use a 40" (octo length) hose under my right arm, with a swivel at the 2nd stage as my primary. This is the one I would donate. Works great.

BSea
12-02-2007, 10:09
I have my own issues with a 5 ft hose, so I now use a 40" (octo length) hose under my right arm, with a swivel at the 2nd stage as my primary. This is the one I would donate. Works great.
Is that hose an Atomic 40" hose with a swivel? If it is, where did you get it?

Splitlip
12-02-2007, 10:38
I have my own issues with a 5 ft hose, so I now use a 40" (octo length) hose under my right arm, with a swivel at the 2nd stage as my primary. This is the one I would donate. Works great.
Is that hose an Atomic 40" hose with a swivel? If it is, where did you get it? It is Atomic 40", but not the one for Atomic regs. My regs are Scubapro, so when I ordered, I had to specify that.
Any Atomic dealer should be able to get them for you. Scuba Toys is an Atomic dealer, but I don't know that they can sell on line or through the mail.

elijahb
08-01-2008, 13:00
If I Had Not Had A Separate Octo This Would Not Have Been Possible.

Why? Either way, you are breathing off your backup, and making a decision to continue the dive with one less level of redundancy. My personal choice, and probably my budy's as well, would be to end the dive at that point, but that's just my conservative nature.

If the concern is that the ability to vent, freedom of motion, breathability, etc. are somehow hindered by the use of combo vs. independent octo, I can say from my own experience with my Octo-Z that I can ascend, descend or just swim around pretty darn close to as easily with my combo in my mouth as I can with my primary. As far as breathabilty, I've breathed off my combo at 95' without noticeable degredation in breathability, and find it better in most cases that the rental octos I've used in the past.

Just my 2 cents, but there seems to be a lot of bad publicity on the combos based on conjecture rather than experience. I respond to these threads often, and always end with something along the lines of "when you're OOA, feel free to pass me up if you don't like my configuration." Tongue in cheek of course, but I think it's a valid point.
I have to agree with rfreddo here. if you wanted to continue the dive, you could almost as easily have done that with the octo/inflator. I too would have ended the dive if my primary went out. But that's me. I'm not saying you did anything wrong.

I have used octo/inflators, and still use 1 for trips. I like the 1 less hose thing. But for normal diving, or more advanced diving, I use a traditional octo.

I did all of my training from pool session 1 to AOW on the same set of gear (I did add a drysuit for open water dives) and never had a problem breathing off of my air 2. During 1 pool session I used it as my primary because I wanted to see how it breathes. I found it just as easy to breath off and since venting air from the bc didn't require the air 2 to be removed from my mouth it was just reaching for a different spot.

When I did my aow dives in victoria bc I found the air 2 to work just fine when I was doing my drills and depth.

Capt. Morgan
08-01-2008, 15:18
Other than cost, what disadvantage would there be in having your primary, an octo and a inflator combo? I am new to diving, but it seems that the more sources of air you have, the better off you are.

CompuDude
08-04-2008, 19:02
Other than cost, what disadvantage would there be in having your primary, an octo and a inflator combo? I am new to diving, but it seems that the more sources of air you have, the better off you are.

More chances for regulator freeflow.

The odds are not appreciably increased by adding another second stage. The odds of BOTH of your second stages failing at the same time are pretty darned small... more likely than such a double failure (statistically) is a problem with your first stage, and adding more second stages isn't going to help you there. Neither will an OOA on your part be helped by this.

wmspdi
08-04-2008, 23:10
I have an Atomic Z1 on a 7 foot hose, Atomic SS1 on a 22" Miflex hose, a traditional octo on a necklace holder, a SPG and wrist computer. I use this setup for recreational diving, and will also use it this fall when I start Divemaster. Two octos may be overkill, but it's nice to be able to demonstrate both of the types of safe seconds the LDS sells for students.

When using the rig for Public Safety Diving I remove the bunged octo (to reduce the risk of entanglement on rebar and other underwater junk) and just use the long hose Z1 and the SS1 octo/inflater. The SS1 breathes almost as well as my Z1, and in the event of ANY equipment failure we surface ASAP, so I would not be breathing off the SS1 for long. The hose routing along with a basic harness, SS back plate and 30 lb Venture wing make for a very streamlined snag resistant package.

On the other hand my Atomic M1 doubles/H-valve kit is strictly DIR.