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JugglingMonkeys
07-23-2007, 21:14
I'm looking at the Scubapro Knighthawk with AIR2.
Anyone had any experience with this?

thanks!

the gooch
07-24-2007, 08:04
The Scubapro Knighthawk is an excellent BC. I think the integrated octo is a personal preference. I have never used one but would like to give it a try. As with everything, some people swear by them some at them.

ScubaToys Larry
07-24-2007, 08:15
If looking at a night hawk, I might also suggest you take a long look at a Zeagle product before pulling the trigger. The differences between the scubapro and zeagle, the scubapro does not have much in the way of pockets, and I like the zeagle weight system a lot better, and it's a bit more flexible in that with the zeagle, you can change out the bladder, shoulders, waist, etc for different sizes, or in case there is a problem with one piece.
It is probably important to note that the zeagle has a lifetime warranty while only the seams on the scubapro do - everything else is 2 year.
And if there is any warranty work needed, Zeagle has a factory in Florida that can repair anything on their BCs.

My favorite in the Zeagle line... The Brigade (http://scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?product_id=ZeagleBrigade)

TAH 73
07-24-2007, 08:52
I have a Knighthawk, and it will be replaced by a Zeagle (probably a Ranger) for some of the reasons Larry posted above.) I had my bladder leak, and it was a bit of a PITA to repair, plus getting a replacement bladder was not possible,
Even though the BC's bladder was easily swapped out I was asked to send the complete BC back to Scubapro, and out of warranty all work I am sure would be at my cost.
I also have issues with fabrc fraying, nothing structural just trim, and the fabric that wraps around the edges of panels coming loose.

CompuDude
07-24-2007, 18:15
I love ScubaPro, as they have been good to me my entire diving career. And I came very close to getting a knighthawk at one point, before I went down the bp/w path instead.

Given a choice between the Knighthawk and the Zeagles, however, I have to give the edge to the Zeagles.

That said, the Knighthawk is still quite a nice BC. It would be my second choice after the Zeagle.

I avoid Air2 systems like the plague they are. (My opinion... YMMV)

ertechsg
07-24-2007, 22:13
I avoid Air2 systems like the plague they are. (My opinion... YMMV)
I like my AIR2 wouldn't use an octo again for rec diving.

JugglingMonkeys
07-26-2007, 07:23
Specifically, what are the downsides of AIR2?

thanks

TAH 73
07-26-2007, 08:34
I think the issue with the Air2 is the fact you donate your primary, and then breate off the Air2, which forsome it's a little difficult to be breathing off the Air2 and be inflating the BC/controlling buoyancy at the same time.
<DIV>But for those of us that they work for they streamline gear, just make sure that if you are using an Air2 style backup to increase the length of the primary reg's hose.</DIV>
<DIV>Saw that the other weekend, Air2 and the primary still on a short hose, in an OOA emergency sharig air would have ben alot more difficult than it woud have been.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>

CompuDude
07-26-2007, 10:40
See this thread (http://forum.scubatoys.com/showthread.php?t=565&highlight=standard+octo) for a discussion of Air2's vs. regular octo's.

In reality, it boils down to this: It complicates a rescue scenario: the worst possible time to deal with any extra complications.

The claim of streamlining is in actuality pretty minuscule. And how tough it is to manage a hose, really?

If it has a malfunction (or is damaged on a trip), you lose both your alternate air source AND your power inflator, so there is less redundancy.

Your inflator hose has to be far longer than it needs to be to allow you to actually move your head freely while using the Air2... and it's still not as free to move as it would be with a regular octo available.

In sum, there are some genuine issues with it. Nothing that can't be dealt with, and people do use them. But why cause problems on purpose, however small, to fix a non-existent problem?


(Incidentally, if you're determined to go with an Air2-style device, the Atomic SS1 is FAR superior to the Air2... and there's no issue with mixing and matching brands)

JugglingMonkeys
07-26-2007, 12:00
That's very helpful!

thanks!

ertechsg
07-26-2007, 13:01
See this thread (http://www.scubatoys.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=575) for a discussion of Air2's vs. regular octo's.

In reality, it boils down to this: It complicates a rescue scenario: the worst possible time to deal with any extra complications.

The claim of streamlining is in actuality pretty minuscule. And how tough it is to manage a hose, really?

If it has a malfunction (or is damaged on a trip), you lose both your alternate air source AND your power inflator, so there is less redundancy.

Your inflator hose has to be far longer than it needs to be to allow you to actually move your head freely while using the Air2... and it's still not as free to move as it would be with a regular octo available.

In sum, there are some genuine issues with it. Nothing that can't be dealt with, and people do use them. But why cause problems on purpose, however small, to fix a non-existent problem?

(Incidentally, if you're determined to go with an Air2-style device, the Atomic SS1 is FAR superior to the Air2... and there's no issue with mixing and matching brands)
1. No problems with rescue when you practice for air share, buddy assist.PRACTICE ...2 Streamline I would agree, but it is 1 more hose to deal with. Really.3 Malfunction-like blow a seal on the octo, never seen that happen.Power inflate.. take a breath and BLOW IT UPmine hasmanual inflate I bet yours does too. 4How far do you need to turn your head? I can move my body if I need to turn around behind me. I can look up with it. Now would I tell someone who is not comfortablewith diving to use one NO.Sure are alot of what if's happening at once. I guess I better go get a spg to back up my vt pro so I also don't run out of air.

CompuDude
07-26-2007, 13:44
This debate has been raging for years. We're not likely to settle anything here. Some people like them, others do not and feel they are unsafe.

The facts are available to anyone interested enough to ask and do a little reading (the search function works well for this, too). Then they can make up their own mind.

ertechsg
07-26-2007, 14:53
Agreed, just giving a differant view

medic001918
07-27-2007, 08:25
I have a friend who dive's a Knighthawk and an Air2 rig and he loves it. I'm still partial to my BP/W over it. But if the jacket is what you want, it seems to be a good set up. I would check out Zeagle too though, as I've heard a lot of good things about their product line as well.

Shane

jsmharley
07-31-2007, 19:40
I have the Knighthawk and love it. I used the Air2 in my traing and check out dives and didn't care for it too muc, so when I purchesed my regs, I bought a proton octo. I believe you'll like the BC though.

JugglingMonkeys
08-03-2007, 17:27
Thanks
i think i'll try the knighthawk.
was able to dive with one a few days ago.

ScubaToys Larry
08-03-2007, 17:41
If you get a chance to look at a Zeagle (http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?product_id=ZeagleBrigade) side by side - I can pretty much assure you that you won't buy the knight hawk. We were a scubapro dealer for years, and I did a check on sales of knight hawk vs zeagle in our shop in that time period. And this is for walk in only that could touch, feel, compare, and hop in our pool. Zeagle outsold the scubapro in a ration of 465 to 1. Pretty lopsided.

Life time warranty instead of 2 year, pockets that are usable, far superior weight system, the ability to swap out shoulders, waist panel, bladder in case you want to alter sizing or change lift, grommets for running doubles if you want, 2 tank straps instead of 1. And you add up all that... for less money?! It took us a long time to move the knight hawks... had to look for the guy walking in that had the scubapro hat and shirt on.

Check this thread if you haven't: http://forum.scubatoys.com/showthread.php?t=13&highlight=brigade

Splitlip
08-04-2007, 08:52
If looking at a night hawk, I might also suggest you take a long look at a Zeagle product before pulling the trigger. The differences between the scubapro and zeagle, the scubapro does not have much in the way of pockets, and I like the zeagle weight system a lot better, and it's a bit more flexible in that with the zeagle, you can change out the bladder, shoulders, waist, etc for different sizes, or in case there is a problem with one piece.
It is probably important to note that the zeagle has a lifetime warranty while only the seams on the scubapro do - everything else is 2 year.
And if there is any warranty work needed, Zeagle has a factory in Florida that can repair anything on their BCs.

My favorite in the Zeagle line... The Brigade (http://scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?product_id=ZeagleBrigade)

I am a big fan of Scubapro, but I giv the edge to Zeagle. Pockets are one thing, but modularity is a huge benefit. I don't know where Monkies is diving, but the Knight Hawk comes with 2 sized wings. Too big and way too big (for south florida anyway). And that only varies with the size of the BC itself.
The Zeagles have different sized wings and harness componants and they can be put together to suit the diver and his/her style of diving.

JugglingMonkeys
08-04-2007, 09:20
Thanks for all the direction. I do appreciate it.

two issues remain:
1. i really like the AIR2 feature of the knighthawk. Losing the extra hose while keeping alternate air capacity.
2. I do need to buy some stuff from my LDS.
and all he sells is scubapro. not sure how to get around that.

ScubaToys Larry
08-04-2007, 09:38
Not a problem... Just so you know - the AirII is actually a product made by Tusa with the Scubapro name (and price tag) attached. It is exactly the same unit as the IR3 Duo Air (http://scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=IR3)

There are also other alternatives if getting a different BC... Like with a Zeagle, there is a new, very nice Zeagle Octo Inflator (http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=ZeagleOctoZ) which is nice as it is easy to remove for service or storage, and you can hook a garden hose right to your BC inflator for rinsing.

But we don't have to make all the sales in the country... just most! :smiley2:

JugglingMonkeys
08-04-2007, 09:56
that does look good!
wish i lived in dallas. i'd buy it all from you.
:smiley20:

but i do need to nurture the local relationship also.

CompuDude
08-04-2007, 10:08
Thanks for all the direction. I do appreciate it.

two issues remain:
1. i really like the AIR2 feature of the knighthawk. Losing the extra hose while keeping alternate air capacity.
2. I do need to buy some stuff from my LDS.
and all he sells is scubapro. not sure how to get around that.
Personally, I don't care for the Air2-style devices. But if I did, I would buy the Atomic SS1 instead of the Air2. It's a far better device.

Mixing and matching brands is no problem. Any device from any manufacturer can be put on any BC, as a general rule.

Splitlip
08-04-2007, 13:24
Thanks for all the direction. I do appreciate it.

two issues remain:
1. i really like the AIR2 feature of the knighthawk. Losing the extra hose while keeping alternate air capacity.
2. I do need to buy some stuff from my LDS.
and all he sells is scubapro. not sure how to get around that.
Personally, I don't care for the Air2-style devices. But if I did, I would buy the Atomic SS1 instead of the Air2. It's a far better device.

Mixing and matching brands is no problem. Any device from any manufacturer can be put on any BC, as a general rule.

I am not familiar with the new Zeagle alternate, but I have used the SS1. And I concur with Compudude that it is superior to the Scubapro.
I don't use the SS1 any longer as I have gone back to a necklaced 2nd stage.
I do however prefer the alternate inflator device to a conventional Octo. After I have had more time to work with my daughter, I will install the SS1 on her BC. The SS1 incidentaly works with pretty much any BC or wing inflator hose and can also be unscrewed from the wing for easy soaking of the reg and easy rinsing of the wing.

creggur
08-04-2007, 14:12
Got to agree with Larry on his recommended setup... Just got the Zeagle Brigade, absolutely awesome BC, and went with the Octo-Z dual...

My wife and I did our OW training with air2s, had no problem with buddy breathing or shared air ascents, maybe because we learned on them. The Octo-Z breathes well too and the controls are intuitive. Now I'll admit the deepest I've breathed on the Octo-Z is around 60', but other than a little higher crack pressure you wouldn't know you were breathing an octo at all... plenty of air and got great reviews in Scuba Diving magazine...

liuk3
08-07-2007, 17:23
I have a Knighthawk and have been happy with it so far. I specifically did not go Air II and went with a normal octo instead. I will likely get a bp/w at some point in the future as it did feel less cluttered, but I will continue to happily use my Knighthawk for the present. I was originally looking at Zeagle, but none of my local dive shops really carried it, and even the authorized Zeagle dealers were pushing me towards the Knighthawk for some reason I couldn't figure out. In the end, the Knighthawk was cheaper than the Zeagle Ranger, which is the one I was originally looking at.

vel525
08-08-2007, 10:38
i've owned a SP Knighthawk + air2 for about 6 years now and have no issues with it. my wife actually was on a trip in australia and her bladder got punctured in route and she was able to take it to a local dive shop who shipped it to the nearest scubapro and got it repaired (or new...can't remember). i have not tried the zeagle products mentioned, but have heard great things about it. i've also read many people swapping the air2 for the atomic ss1. but for me, my air2 does what it's supposed to fine so i just left it alone.

JugglingMonkeys
08-08-2007, 17:34
it seems the atomic ss1 is very popular.

torrey
08-10-2007, 14:55
I have an Air2 that I originally bought 7 years ago with a Scubapro Accent. While I have not had any issues whatsoever with it, I have also never been in a real-life OOA situation. When the Air2 has fulfilled its useful life, I will most likely switch to a standard octo.

JugglingMonkeys
08-10-2007, 18:31
it seems, from what everyone says that real-life OOA situations are genuinely rare.

vel525
08-13-2007, 09:38
it seems, from what everyone says that real-life OOA situations are genuinely rare.

i have been fortunate and have never been in one. however, i do test my air2 regularly. any update on what you decided?

JugglingMonkeys
08-13-2007, 09:44
i'm debating about buying the knighthawk - need to buy somethng from my LDS.
but also buying the atomic SS1 from sST.

out of the country now - but will need to decide soon.