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auburntiger1976
01-13-2008, 21:55
A question for all you guys who dive doubles:

I am about to buy a set so that I can learn to dive them. I have read a lot of posts warning not to dive steel doubles when wet. Currently, I have a fairly tight budget and cannot afford to buy steel doubles and a drysuit all at once. So, my question is, is it still risky to dive LP85's with a wetsuit....I ask this because the 85's are neutrally buoyant when empty and lighter (buoyancy-wise) when full compared to all other HP tanks and LP tanks.

My other option is to just buy double AL80's and be done with it.

Thanks in advance.

texdiveguy
01-14-2008, 00:27
Regardless of the tank size....steel doubles are heavy--lol!

I dive double lp85's both wet and dry.

When I dive steel doubles in a wet suit regardless of the tank size or wet suit mil thickness I also 'stack' a second wing as a redundant means of buoyancy. I never would suggest you dive steel doubles in a wet suit without a redundant means of buoyancy, and a double bladder or stacked second wing is your best option. A lift bag or SMB can work if you have practiced the skill and find yourself in a position that this is your only fall back.

Al80's doubled up are very popular with newer doubles divers and those wishing to dive within recreational profiles wet or dry.

Persl. I much prefer steel doubles.

auburntiger1976
01-14-2008, 00:55
Regardless of the tank size....steel doubles are heavy--lol!

I dive double lp85's both wet and dry.

When I dive steel doubles in a wet suit regardless of the tank size or wet suit mil thickness I also 'stack' a second wing as a redundant means of buoyancy. I never would suggest you dive steel doubles in a wet suit without a redundant means of buoyancy, and a double bladder or stacked second wing is your best option. A lift bag or SMB can work if you have practiced the skill and find yourself in a position that this is your only fall back.

Al80's doubled up are very popular with newer doubles divers and those wishing to dive within recreational profiles wet or dry.

Persl. I much prefer steel doubles.

Thanks for your input. By the way, how do you "stack" a second wing?

texdiveguy
01-14-2008, 01:04
Regardless of the tank size....steel doubles are heavy--lol!

I dive double lp85's both wet and dry.

When I dive steel doubles in a wet suit regardless of the tank size or wet suit mil thickness I also 'stack' a second wing as a redundant means of buoyancy. I never would suggest you dive steel doubles in a wet suit without a redundant means of buoyancy, and a double bladder or stacked second wing is your best option. A lift bag or SMB can work if you have practiced the skill and find yourself in a position that this is your only fall back.

Al80's doubled up are very popular with newer doubles divers and those wishing to dive within recreational profiles wet or dry.

Persl. I much prefer steel doubles.

Thanks for your input. By the way, how do you "stack" a second wing?

This is a simple process.....in my case I found an almost new 40lbs. wing for sale that would work as a redundant wing to my primary unit. Prior to placing the bp/w or back inflate bc down on the doubles posts...just first place the redundant wing on the mounting posts then position the primary wing on top, secure with washers/nuts as normal. Your redundant wings inflator hose will be on the opposite shoulder from your primary inflator hose.

WD8CDH
01-14-2008, 07:24
As long as you are at least slightly buoyant with full tanks and no weightbelt, you don't need redundant lift no matter how negative the tanks are. For example, if you need a 10 pound weight belt to be neutral without tanks, if your tanks are no more negative than about 8 pounds you will be fine. Of course, you will have to take some of that 8 pounds off of your belt to dive with the tanks.

Puffer Fish
01-14-2008, 08:49
As long as you are at least slightly buoyant with full tanks and no weightbelt, you don't need redundant lift no matter how negative the tanks are. For example, if you need a 10 pound weight belt to be neutral without tanks, if your tanks are no more negative than about 8 pounds you will be fine. Of course, you will have to take some of that 8 pounds off of your belt to dive with the tanks.
With full tanks, you are talking about something around 16 lbs negative... if you have a SS back plate, now you are 21 lbs negative. That is more than a lot of people need with a 3mm suit, for example.. but your point is well stated.

in_cavediver
01-14-2008, 11:00
One other point to consider is where you are going to be diving and just how long it will be before a drysuit? If you plant to dive areas where 'walking out' is an option, you may be OK to go with the steel doubles.

As a data point, I dive LP104s dry and 80's wet. My wife uses 85 dry with a V wieght. She uses 85's without the V-weight wet. (transpac so no plate weight either).

I personally wouldn't worry about a few pounds negative with full tanks. (up to around 4 -6 or so). Any more, redundant lift is required.

BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)
01-14-2008, 13:40
I bought a transpac and Dual Rec wing when I thought I'd be diving doubles with a wet suit. Knowing that I couldn't swim up doubles I liked the idea of a redundant bladder. I ended up getting the drysuit and still don't have the doubles. Now I'm thinking about selling the rig.

auburntiger1976
01-14-2008, 17:00
I guess I should briefly describe what kind of diving I do ....

Currently, I primarily dive in the ocean and sometimes quarries (FL and AL). The reason I am buying doubles is to learn them so that, when I sign up for GUE-Fundies sometime later this year (or January of next year), I can go for my tech pass. Obviously, if I buy steel doubles, I will need to buy a drysuit before the class. However, I believe GUE allows one to get their Fundies/Tech pass diving AL80's wet.

Not to hijack my own thread, but what are your experiences, if any, of diving double AL80's? I tend to be feet-heavy, and I do not want the AL80's to make me even more feet-heavy forcing me to add more weight to my cam bands to offset it. The allure of steel tanks is that I can take some weight off. I currently dive a stainless steel backplate, DSS #30 single wing and hog harness. With this config., I require about 7-8 pounds in fresh water.

Oh...and, sorry for the long-winded reply.

in_cavediver
01-14-2008, 17:15
I guess I should briefly describe what kind of diving I do ....

Currently, I primarily dive in the ocean and sometimes quarries (FL and AL). The reason I am buying doubles is to learn them so that, when I sign up for GUE-Fundies sometime later this year (or January of next year), I can go for my tech pass. Obviously, if I buy steel doubles, I will need to buy a drysuit before the class. However, I believe GUE allows one to get their Fundies/Tech pass diving AL80's wet.

Not to hijack my own thread, but what are your experiences, if any, of diving double AL80's? I tend to be feet-heavy, and I do not want the AL80's to make me even more feet-heavy forcing me to add more weight to my cam bands to offset it. The allure of steel tanks is that I can take some weight off. I currently dive a stainless steel backplate, DSS #30 single wing and hog harness. With this config., I require about 7-8 pounds in fresh water.

Oh...and, sorry for the long-winded reply.

I have a H branded SS plate and thats it for weight when diving wet. I have never noticed trim issues. (OK, I did move the tanks in the bands once for my wife) Its a set it and forget it type of thing.

Now, as an FYI, you 'cam bands' with doubles ought to be SS bolted bands. Doubles are a single unit and attach to the BC/plate with threaded bolts, not cam straps.

I can't speak for GUE's specific guidelines as I did my training through IANTD/NACD.

auburntiger1976
01-14-2008, 17:34
I guess I should briefly describe what kind of diving I do ....

Currently, I primarily dive in the ocean and sometimes quarries (FL and AL). The reason I am buying doubles is to learn them so that, when I sign up for GUE-Fundies sometime later this year (or January of next year), I can go for my tech pass. Obviously, if I buy steel doubles, I will need to buy a drysuit before the class. However, I believe GUE allows one to get their Fundies/Tech pass diving AL80's wet.

Not to hijack my own thread, but what are your experiences, if any, of diving double AL80's? I tend to be feet-heavy, and I do not want the AL80's to make me even more feet-heavy forcing me to add more weight to my cam bands to offset it. The allure of steel tanks is that I can take some weight off. I currently dive a stainless steel backplate, DSS #30 single wing and hog harness. With this config., I require about 7-8 pounds in fresh water.

Oh...and, sorry for the long-winded reply.

I have a H branded SS plate and thats it for weight when diving wet. I have never noticed trim issues. (OK, I did move the tanks in the bands once for my wife) Its a set it and forget it type of thing.

Now, as an FYI, you 'cam bands' with doubles ought to be SS bolted bands. Doubles are a single unit and attach to the BC/plate with threaded bolts, not cam straps.

I can't speak for GUE's specific guidelines as I did my training through IANTD/NACD.

I actually misspoke...I meant to add that I would not be able to add weight to the weight pockets on my cam bands...of course, I could utilize a v-weight with my doubles setup, I guess. I already have a set of Highland bands.

WD8CDH
01-15-2008, 07:48
I know it's not common practice, but I have often used lifts made of blue Styrofoam with tanks that are too negative for a thin wetsuit. The Styrofoam is rather incompressable compared to air in your BCD so buoyancy doesn't change as much with depth.

I shape and place the foam like v-weights.