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snagel
01-19-2008, 12:39
I can see that diving dry means (at least for me) that I need more weight. The problem for me is that I tend to need a little more weight anyway. I prefer to be a little overweighted than to fight trying to stay under at the safety stop. For me, I break down like this:

No suit, just trunks - 12 pounds
3mm - 18 pounds
7mm - 22 pounds
7mm with 3 mm hooded vest, gloves, etc. - 24-26 pounds.
Crushed Neo Drysuit - 28 pounds.

Since I will primarily be diving dry, I would like to add weight to the BCD so I don't need as much in the pockets. My BCD is a Genesis Cobra 2 w/ integrated weights. What's my options?

I was thinking maybe adding something to the backplate area...not sure exacty what and how. I would prefer something that is built into the BCD as opposed to adding weights to the tank strap or something like that. Although, this would cause the BCD to be heavier obviously, I would'nt need to add so many 3,4,5 pound weights.

Any thoughts? Am I looking at doing something that isn't advised? Obviously, I still need detachable weights, but given how much weight I do use this shouldn't be a big problem.

S. Nagel

SHAGGY
01-19-2008, 12:53
Well I just recently started dry diving and just did my dry suit class this past week and I just didnt like how heavy my BCD was when I was gonna dry dive.

I normally use 8lbs in Fresh water with a 3/2 full wet suit
and 12 lbs in fresh water with my 5mm full suit
and I needed 18lbs with my Pinnacle Evo2 Dry suit.

I just decided to go with a weight belt so all of my weight wont be in my BCD. I now put 8lbs in my BCD and 10lbs on the weight belt which makes things more manageable for me.

SkuaSeptember
01-19-2008, 13:10
Hi there,
First of all, if you are weighted to be neutral at your safety stop with 300-500 psi remaining and no air in your BC, you are weighted properly,not overweighted. If at this point you still have air in your BC or more than enough to take the squeeze off in your suit, you should try getting rid of a pound or two untill you shave it down to the bare minimum.
As for permanently attaching weights to your rig, it would just be more you have to wrestle with when packing,washing,drying and storing your gear. If the pockets hold the needed 28 lbs,let them do the job and don't try to re-invent the wheel. If it is your desire to be able to ditch some but not all of your weight at once, put 6lbs to 10lbs of the total on a belt and see how that woks for you.

snagel
01-19-2008, 13:44
Thanks for the information.

With an empty tank, no air in bc or suit I'm about right with 28 pounds. Maybe a little positive, but can work that out. I'd say, 28 and hopefully a little less later is about right. But, the problem is my weight packets can only hold 20 pounds (10 in each). I don't really like putting this much weight in the pockets because it tends to hang down. I do put some in the trim pockets in back; which, is probably where I need to look putting more. My point, is that regardless, I tend to need a lot of weight. I don't mind adding a little to the BCD where appropriate. Yes, it will be a little heavier, but messing will all the single weight blocks for some reason drives me nuts.

S. Nagel

SkuaSeptember
01-19-2008, 15:03
Just looked at your BC on the Genesis website and if it were me, I'd put a 5lb soft weight in each trim pocket and a 5,2,1,1lb soft weight combo in each of the ditchable pouches. Rather than remove the weights from the pouches after diving, just remove the pouches, rinse them, and let them dry as they are.

cummings66
01-19-2008, 18:38
One thing about new drysuit divers, you may start with more weight but after you dive in it for a while you'll discover you can probably use less weight. Many drysuit divers trap air in the suit and don't get it out well and so you need more lead due to that. Some of us though do it on purpose to stay warm as well.

Just an interesting observation, your BC's trim pockets may or may not be usable for you, check your trim and that will tell you if you can use them. I found when I used to use a jacket style bc that I couldn't use the lower pockets and all my weight was up high, with a BP I can use a weight belt. It's all about the distribution, what ever it takes to get horizontal is where you want it.

WAHMof2
02-01-2008, 16:32
Snagel, thanks for getting a drysuit! I'm learning a lot here! :smiley36:

snagel
02-01-2008, 20:29
Yea, I've learned alot about drysuits recently from all the pros here on the forum. Great advise.

S. Nagel

RoyN
02-05-2008, 01:54
I think it is best to try it out in a pool before going out!

caroln
02-05-2008, 08:39
Is your weighting with a steel tank or an AL tank? If that's with an AL tank, I'd highly recommend that you switch to a steel tank. Dry weight is very close to an AL tank, but you can usually drop 7 so maybe even more pounds of lead by switching.

wjsdive
02-05-2008, 23:38
There has been no bad advice given here, so all I will add is that you keep diving the suit and after you have about 20-25 dives on it go back and re read your dry suit book. You will probably learn a few things that will help you drop a few pounds of weight, and achieve proper buoyancy and trim.

CompuDude
02-06-2008, 00:59
Two thoughts to reduce the weight on your BC and/or belt:

1) Steel tanks. Generally moving from an Al.80 to an HP100 you can drop about 6 lbs.

2) Consider moving to a bp/w. There are models with weight plates available, there are options to use a weighted STA, and there are channel weight options. Lots of ways to get it out of the pockets. You also get rid of the inherent buoyancy most regular BCs have. Whatever weight remains, if any, can be put on a belt or you can get weight pockets for bp/w's as well.

cummings66
02-06-2008, 12:55
And if you want to lose even more weight move to steel doubles.

Divingguy
02-06-2008, 13:32
I guess the only problem I am having with this thread is that moving weight from pockets to different types of gear is not really "losing" or reducing weight. There should be a couple of pounds that can be lost with practice and/or experience. Once you figure out how much you have to have, in whatever form, then you can decide whether you want it in pockets, or in the form of other equipment, which can also help with trim and balance. The only other think which has occured to me over these last several weeks is that you need to make sure that your BC or BPW bladder can generate sufficient lift to handle your load in the unlikely event of a total inflator failure or flood.

MSilvia
02-06-2008, 13:45
Two thoughts to reduce the weight on your BC and/or belt:
1) Steel tanks. 2) Consider moving to a bp/w.
I agree with CompuDude. When I dive dry with a lofty Weezle Extreme undergarment, a 6# stainless backplate with STA, and a LP72 steel tank, I carry 12# on my weight belt.

In a 2 piece 7mm wetsuit with a TransPacII and AL80, I had 32# on my belt. The same setup in a drysuit was still in the 24# neighborhood IIRC.

IMHO, if you want to add weight to the BC without adding weight to the pockets, a steel backplate and steel tank are good options for you.

cummings66
02-06-2008, 16:54
The only other think which has occured to me over these last several weeks is that you need to make sure that your BC or BPW bladder can generate sufficient lift to handle your load in the unlikely event of a total inflator failure or flood.

I posted this in another thread, but I'll post it here since you brought it up.

When considering lift you need to consider first that you have enough to lift the rig itself, secondarily enough to lift you without buoyancy. The formula in a drysuit can be done easily if you have a pool.

Get in the pool with drysuit and undergarments and figure out how much lead you need to get neutral. That tells us how much we will lose if the drysuit goes south on us. Without a pool we can come close by back figuring.

Say our tank is -10 lbs. BP is -5 lbs, regs -3 lbs. That means at the surface the rig is -18 lbs. So far so good, most any rig will lift that. Now assume we're in a drysuit, here's where it gets more complex and I'll use my weights. I basically need 10 lbs of lead to get neutral in my drysuit, and that means I need a total lift of 28 lbs for a single steel tank configuration.

The way I arrive at my drysuit weight is by taking my 8 lb lead weights and add a couple lbs to allow me to loft it at the safety stop so I can use 10 lbs of lead if I don't squeeze myself tightly. In a pool with all the air squeezed out and just holding lead I take 8 lbs to get neutral in a drysuit.

So, if my drysuit were flooded (not that you'd lose all the lift but assume worst case) I would be 8 to 10 lbs heavy that the suit no longer provides the lift for and thus the wing now will need to.

You have options, ditch the weight belt (not suggested by me) and ascend more and more rapidly upwards risking AGE or other problems, or use a properly sized wing and come up under control. At the surface do whatever you need to do, and if that means dropping weight to be comfortable do so. I'd say if you had the wing working fine and providing lift just get on the boat and be done with it. Lead is cheap though.

Divingguy
02-06-2008, 19:32
Matthew: I wish I had seen your other thread. I understand the concepts you are discussing, and had come up with similar calculations on my own. In fact, last week I just bought the 44 pound Ranger LTD bladder to put on my Brigade, to provide me with 10 more pounds of additional lift.

cummings66
02-06-2008, 22:18
The thing about doubles is many divers using them do so for technical reasons and if that's where you're headed like I am then starting out with those assumptions in mind help. For example, the reason to be heavier is during a deco dive if you lose your deco gas you will have to do the stop on your back gas. That means a very long deco stop and if you had to do that shrink wrapped you'd be very unhappy. As I understand it, a real deco stop should be done with very little movement and done horizontally as well so all the tissues are at the same level. It's also better if you're warmer vs colder, so added together that means heavier will be better if something goes wrong.

Or so it was explained to me by an instructor in the discussion of what gear I needed to acquire to take the courses I want to do.

I've still got one more AL40 and regulator to get, a backup device for timing the dive and also depth gage. Seems like I'll have tons of stuff...