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Kingpatzer
01-21-2008, 09:56
I'm not interested in starting a certifying agency war. No PADI vs NAUI stuff here.

Rather, I'd like to ask folks what few changes they'd like to see within their own favorite agency to make it better.

I'd also like to ask that we keep these realistic. Let's face it, most scuba divers don't visit boards every day, they don't make more than 10 or 15 dives in their lifetime, and they're just in it for fun. So turning OW into a 15 day course is probably not going to happen, regardless of the merits of such an idea.

So I'll go first.

I'm certified primarily through PADI.

What I'd like to see:

Officially change the course title of Advanced Open Water to "Adventures In Diving" to align with the book title and to end the fiction that an AOW certified diver is "Advanced."

Change the DM requirement to 100 dives, and mandate at least some number of both warm and cold water dives, deep dives, night dives, etc., to ensure a variety of experience.

Add a Master Diver class akin to NAUI's: where you show real mastery of diving skills.

mitsuguy
01-21-2008, 11:16
Change the DM requirement to 100 dives, and mandate at least some number of both warm and cold water dives, deep dives, night dives, etc., to ensure a variety of experience.



Not sure cold and warm water dives are reasonable... I've had some mildly cold water dives (55 degrees), but any colder than that and I just won't be diving... It also would severely hurt people in a certain area... Not everyone that lives in the tropics, and certainly not everyone that lives up north will be able to travel to the "other" locale to get the required warm or cold dives...

IMO, a divemaster should get certified where he/she intends to DM, or similar... If a DM never goes out of the tropics, why should he/she need to have cold water experience?

fisheater
01-21-2008, 11:32
I'd like to see all the agencies incorporate formal DAN training into their training progression.

No Misses
01-21-2008, 12:29
I would like to have all certifications listed on one card, kind of like the restrictions/classes on a drivers license. Who wants to carry a deck of cards on vacation (AOW, Nitrox, Deep, Wreck, etc.)

Ryanh1801
01-21-2008, 12:48
Id like to see the OW and Master diver course combined. I thought OW was a joke, and needed to have more info put into the course. Everything I wondered about in my OW class is now being covered in my Master diver class.

UCFKnightDiver
01-21-2008, 14:42
Would like Naui to be like Padi in there ability for dive shops to be able to look up your certification if you forget your card

hoobascooba
01-21-2008, 15:04
when it comes to training, namely OW certification, I'd like to see MORE emphasis on the emergency "what-to-do" roster.

These emergency situations may or may not ever happen to you, or even involve you, but what if it has been 5, 10, or 15 yrs since you got certified? Are you really apt enough to remember what to do? These emergency "skills" are supposed to be just that. SKILLS. They need to be emphasized more, or at least practiced more times than just 2 or 3 times in a session.

But that's just speaking on behalf of PADI.

wheelman
01-21-2008, 16:38
I like no misses idea... one consolidated card.

DivingCRNA
01-21-2008, 16:56
I would like a consolidated card too. Give a new one with every specialty earned. That way you still have spares if you lose one.

I would like to see PADI skip the "first aid" requirement for Rescue and DM if the candidate is already an EMT, paramedic, LPN, RN, CRNA, NP, PA or physician. it is just kind of silly. Keep the CPR requirement, but skip the hokey first aid.

I would also like to see PADI stop being the "Snorkel Police".

MLenyo
01-21-2008, 22:08
..I would also like to see PADI stop being the "Snorkel Police".

heheh!

agree on the single PADI card.

DiveSooner
01-21-2008, 23:19
Everyone has some good suggestions.

more required dives for DM or better cert, should be considered.

Duckydiver
01-22-2008, 13:39
I would like to see PADI skip the "first aid" requirement for Rescue and DM if the candidate is already an EMT, paramedic, LPN, RN, CRNA, NP, PA or physician. it is just kind of silly. Keep the CPR requirement, but skip the hokey first aid.

I was told that an EMT card woud be accepted in place of the first aid course. I don't know if thats PADI or just to LDS i go to.

Mycroft
01-22-2008, 14:11
I would like to see PADI skip the "first aid" requirement for Rescue and DM if the candidate is already an EMT, paramedic, LPN, RN, CRNA, NP, PA or physician. it is just kind of silly. Keep the CPR requirement, but skip the hokey first aid.

I was told that an EMT card woud be accepted in place of the first aid course. I don't know if thats PADI or just to LDS i go to.

For my Rescue course, a BSA First Aid card was accepted for the First Aid part, along with a current CPR card.

DivingCRNA
01-22-2008, 14:18
I would like to see PADI skip the "first aid" requirement for Rescue and DM if the candidate is already an EMT, paramedic, LPN, RN, CRNA, NP, PA or physician. it is just kind of silly. Keep the CPR requirement, but skip the hokey first aid.

I was told that an EMT card woud be accepted in place of the first aid course. I don't know if thats PADI or just to LDS i go to.

Well, my EMT card is at least 12 years out of date. But I had one! I quit renewing when I became am RN, and then a CRNA. I just think that if I run codes and manage critically ill and injured patients in the ICU, maybe we could skip the "First Aid" requirement...

in_cavediver
01-24-2008, 11:04
I'd like to see a few things, regardless of agency

1) All OW divers taught the fundementals of gas management. IE, they ought to learn how to estimate thier gas usage based on time/depth and how to plan reserves.

2) More emphasis placed on skills done while actually diving. Its all good to learn the basics when kneeling but you don't kneel when you dive so you should learn the skills while diving as well

3) Rename the AOW class.

4) Make Nitrox part of OW from the get go. ALL divers ought to know how to use nitrox and more importantly, how to determine what they are breathing.

I do agree with more logical use of equivalencies. I figure a first responder/emt/paramedic is an easy skip on the first aid. I am not as sure about physicians and nurses though. Some most definitely know it but many may not have seen it for YEARS. Those would be well served with a refresher.

These equivalencies based on expeirence also should go into certs as well. There is no reason to mandate some classes if significant other training is done. For instance, my wife at OW has done Advanced nitrox, full cave and technical nitrox. Why should she do AOW if she wants to learn Ice diving or Rescue? Some agencies already have this. All should.

DarinMartell
01-24-2008, 11:16
I like the combined cert idea (even though I only have one so far, I know I will get many more since I have cought the bug),

I wish they gave us more info on computers in OW, They mentioned them but we did not so much as show us one. My first few dives on rental regs had computers and I had no idea on how to read them. I would not want to dive a profile on a computer I didn't know so I would have still used my tables, but ti would have been nice to be able to look at it and know kind of what I was seeing.

SkuaSeptember
01-24-2008, 12:18
I'd like to see C-cards expire and then be renewed only with proof of current experience or with a refresher course.

Kingpatzer
01-24-2008, 13:00
I'd like to see C-cards expire and then be renewed only with proof of current experience or with a refresher course.

That's a really interesting idea!

The refresher course wouldn't have to be more than a few hours in a pool . . . just show you can assemble the gear, do the skills, answer a few questions about dive planning, etc.

I like that one.

MLenyo
01-24-2008, 13:51
..I wish they gave us more info on computers in OW, They mentioned them but we did not so much as show us one. My first few dives on rental regs had computers and I had no idea on how to read them. I would not want to dive a profile on a computer I didn't know so I would have still used my tables, but ti would have been nice to be able to look at it and know kind of what I was seeing.

same here. they showed us computers, and said "yadda yadda, air integrated, this is 900 dollars" etc. and so forth. never used one, just had gauges for my cert. dives.

DivingCRNA
01-24-2008, 20:58
..I wish they gave us more info on computers in OW, They mentioned them but we did not so much as show us one. My first few dives on rental regs had computers and I had no idea on how to read them. I would not want to dive a profile on a computer I didn't know so I would have still used my tables, but ti would have been nice to be able to look at it and know kind of what I was seeing.

same here. they showed us computers, and said "yadda yadda, air integrated, this is 900 dollars" etc. and so forth. never used one, just had gauges for my cert. dives.

Well, gauges and tables/The Wheel make you get used to what NDLs are for the depths you usually dive. Trusting a computer can be worse than a trust me dive. Especially if you watch NDL, but NOT you air supply...

cutter77
01-25-2008, 00:58
"When it comes to training, namely OW certification, I'd like to see MORE emphasis on the emergency "what-to-do if" roster."
_______________________
Ditto....good idea.

DarinMartell
01-25-2008, 07:08
..I wish they gave us more info on computers in OW, They mentioned them but we did not so much as show us one. My first few dives on rental regs had computers and I had no idea on how to read them. I would not want to dive a profile on a computer I didn't know so I would have still used my tables, but ti would have been nice to be able to look at it and know kind of what I was seeing.

same here. they showed us computers, and said "yadda yadda, air integrated, this is 900 dollars" etc. and so forth. never used one, just had gauges for my cert. dives.

Well, gauges and tables/The Wheel make you get used to what NDLs are for the depths you usually dive. Trusting a computer can be worse than a trust me dive. Especially if you watch NDL, but NOT you air supply...

I agree, but being a complete nube I would have had no idea what to look for in a computer if I hadn't found this great resource! I think the instructor that tought me how to survive underwater should have given me a little info on computers so I knew what kind to look for with my level of experience. As an example I never knew until on the board that different computers are more conservitive / libral.

Kingpatzer
01-25-2008, 07:49
The idea of having just a better general equipment orientation isn't a bad one.

divingbuddy
01-26-2008, 06:53
I'd like to see C-cards expire and then be renewed only with proof of current experience or with a refresher course.

I too think that requiring either reasonable dive experience or a refresher is a great idea. When I was originally certified with IDEA Canada, I was given an Open Water Diver card with a 3 year expiry date. I had to log 15 dives in the next three years to be able to renew the card without a refresher.

I also think there should be a refresher for instructors as well. As long as I continue to pay my annual fees and keep up my insurance premiums, I will always be an active instructor, even if I haven't dove or taught a class in years. While most active instructors are actually teaching and diving, I see nothing wrong with a refresher or having someone co-teach your first couple of classes if you have a significant period of time away from teaching.

Just my two cents...Cheers!

SkuaSeptember
01-26-2008, 18:45
I'd like to see C-cards expire and then be renewed only with proof of current experience or with a refresher course.

I too think that requiring either reasonable dive experience or a refresher is a great idea. When I was originally certified with IDEA Canada, I was given an Open Water Diver card with a 3 year expiry date. I had to log 15 dives in the next three years to be able to renew the card without a refresher.

I also think there should be a refresher for instructors as well. As long as I continue to pay my annual fees and keep up my insurance premiums, I will always be an active instructor, even if I haven't dove or taught a class in years. While most active instructors are actually teaching and diving, I see nothing wrong with a refresher or having someone co-teach your first couple of classes if you have a significant period of time away from teaching.

Just my two cents...Cheers!
I'll buy the bit about instructors as well, but it seems to be that once you stop teaching actively, you stay stopped. I do like to get in and observe or co-teach on occasion as it always puts a few new techniques in my "toolbag" no mater how good a job I feel I'm already doing.