PDA

View Full Version : Rescue classes and the use of the word help



TxHockeyGuy
07-29-2007, 17:20
This is being discussed over at ScubaBoard on the Texas Swamp Divers forum and I thought I'd get a conversation going on here too.

Apparently PADI requires during their rescue classes that students call for help and use the phrase call 911, unlike the very sane option that ScubaToys uses of Pizza and Call Dominos. Normally, other than poking fun ;), I'm not into the PADI bashing thing but I'm making an exception here. I can't believe anyone actually believes there is true benefit in having a class call out for help or yell for 911. This is a more sensitive topic for those who dive at CSSP (a local scuba park) and are aware of some recent incidents.

Now I ask how do we go about changing this?

I doubt petitioning PADI will do any good. We might get assistance with this from scuba park owners, but that'd be hit and miss. Then there's the legal question, I can't imagine calling for help and yelling call 911 is legal when there is no emergency. Can anyone cite any laws like this, I'm especially interested in Texas, that we could use to start educating people to stop doing this? Hopefully if there are such laws on the books that would make dealing with park owners more simple, and for that matter dealing with instructors who follow those ridiculous PADI requirements.

Thoughts anyone?

Illini_Fan
07-29-2007, 17:26
Kevin and I started talking about this out at CSSP yesterday.

I don't have a wealth of experience, but I strongly disagree with the use of "HELP" during a training class that is conducted anywhere near other divers. If PADI trully wants their students to use HELP and loudly call that out during training, then their rescue classes need to be done at a private facility.

If you are in a public location and condition people to ingore "HELP" nothing good can come from that.

fire diver
07-29-2007, 17:39
I'm strongly against using the words "help" or "911" in any training scenario. Have you ever seen what a fire dept can charge for a response?

FD

TxHockeyGuy
07-29-2007, 18:00
Kevin and I started talking about this out at CSSP yesterday.

I don't have a wealth of experience, but I strongly disagree with the use of "HELP" during a training class that is conducted anywhere near other divers. If PADI trully wants their students to use HELP and loudly call that out during training, then their rescue classes need to be done at a private facility.

If you are in a public location and condition people to ingore "HELP" nothing good can come from that.

I completely agree. We already had one fatality this year out at CSSP where response was delayed because the calls for help were thought to be a rescue class. Maybe a bunch of us should approach Robert on this subject, whatever it takes to stop this nonsense.

Edit: Robert is the owner of CSSP for those not from the Dallas area.

paintballindivr
07-29-2007, 18:32
well i agree with the call pizza and dominos for two big reasons
1. you dont freak people out by calling for help
2. when you surface you are greeted with warm dominos pizza

Divingguy
07-30-2007, 09:15
Anyone who insists upon using the real words help and 911 in a rescue class, especially in light of the recent incidents at CSSP, is creating unnecessary problems for bystanders, other classes, and Robert.

WaterRat
07-30-2007, 09:41
Didn't we learn this as a kid? Hum, some story about a boy crying wolf. :smiley24:

Ron

Vercingetorix
07-30-2007, 10:06
During PPB class at CSSP in June, the PADI Rescue instructor at the next pavillion came over to us to tell us to ignore the calls for help and 911. We asked the instructor about "callfor pizza" and she informed us it's a PADI requirement. I gotta tell you, the group of us felt a bit uneasy about that.

TxHockeyGuy
07-30-2007, 10:07
During PPB class at CSSP in June, the PADI Rescue instructor at the next pavillion came over to us to tell us to ignore the calls for help and 911. We asked the instructor about "callfor pizza" and she informed us it's a PADI requirement. I gotta tell you, the group of us felt a bit uneasy about that.

You know, I'd be real tempted to calll 911 anyway and let them explain themselves. I think I'm going to shoot off an email to Robert asking his opinion on this.

ReefHound
07-30-2007, 10:14
Sorry, if I hear someone yell "call 911" then I'm calling 911. Better to sort out a false alarm later than to delay response to a real emergency. So there is a rescue class in the area. How does that prevent a real emergency from happening to someone not in the class?

Vercingetorix
07-30-2007, 10:30
How does that prevent a real emergency from happening to someone not in the class? That was our concern in the PPB class. And, sure enough, whenever a diver in the Rescue class called out for help or 911, we all snapped our heads in the direction of the diver to determine if it was a real call or not.

PlatypusMan
07-30-2007, 12:51
This is a very touchy subject; I sure PADI didn't set the requirement without giving it a LOT of thought. My own opinion is that they should have given it even more.

As I understand it, the idea was/is that rescuers are being conditioned to yell for pizza delivery, and PADI felt that this was something that could cause real delay in an actual emergency (yelling for Dominos instead of 911 at first, for example).

My own reality is that I really have to concentrate to call for pizza in any form during rescue classes--it just doesn't come naturally to me at all, no matter how many I perform in as a Training Assistant on my way towards DM.

As for being on shore or in the water when a "help" cry is heard--I only hope that I can respond properly, effectively and appropriately to the situation once I figure out what may actually be happening.

TxHockeyGuy
07-30-2007, 13:00
This is a very touchy subject; I sure PADI didn't set the requirement without giving it a LOT of thought. My own opinion is that they should have given it even more.

Well that makes one of us. Personally I don't think they thought through this at all. If they did, then it is even more scary that they came to this decision.


As I understand it, the idea was/is that rescuers are being conditioned to yell for pizza delivery, and PADI felt that this was something that could cause real delay in an actual emergency (yelling for Dominos instead of 911 at first, for example).

I've heard this before, and I don't buy it for a second. Nothing about yelling out pizza or call for dominos is in the slightest, natural.


My own reality is that I really have to concentrate to call for pizza in any form during rescue classes--it just doesn't come naturally to me at all, no matter how many I perform in as a Training Assistant on my way towards DM.

I've only been through the class once, but it certainly wasn't natural to remember to say call for pizza for me either. I certainly won't be yelling call for dominos if there were a real emergency.


As for being on shore or in the water when a "help" cry is heard--I only hope that I can respond properly, effectively and appropriately to the situation once I figure out what may actually be happening.

My sentiments exactly.

Illini_Fan
07-30-2007, 13:04
I've never had a dive emergency, but I can speak from personal experience that yelling HELP in an emergency is extremely entrenched and I can't possibly buy-off on the believe that a rescue-trained student would resort back to yelling "Pizza" in an actual emergency.

I had a situation where a family member I was with had an emergency while shopping and I immediately resorted to an extremely loud "somebody help me" call without even thinking.

Unless you are "retraining" yourself by frequent and repetitive use of "Pizza", one or two classes cannot possibly be enough to override the inherent urge to yell "help".

Maybe (and I'm stretching here), PADI is concerned about their rescue instructors resorting to "Pizza" since they will go through multiple training scenarios on a recurring basis

thesmoothdome
07-30-2007, 13:32
I don't think what's yelled once or twice in training excercises would become entrenched. It takes thousands of repititions to entrench something that contrary to what are brains are trained for. PADI does seem a bit behind here.

My question becomes if a real emergency springs up during a rescue class and no one responds because they know it's a rescue class screaming for help or 911, isn't that more of an issue than having someone inadvertantly scream out Pizza?

Vercingetorix
07-30-2007, 13:34
During our Rescue class in July, we students called for pizza...and it worked. Woody (our instructor) bought, and delivered, pizza for lunch. Had we yelled "help" or "call 911", god only knows what he would have brought. And we'd be hungry. Next time, I'm calling for pizza AND beer (Guinness).

Illini_Fan
07-30-2007, 13:42
Next time, I'm calling for pizza AND beer (Guinness).

Excellent choice and proof that training does work :smilie39::smilie39:

TxHockeyGuy
07-30-2007, 13:52
My question becomes if a real emergency springs up during a rescue class and no one responds because they know it's a rescue class screaming for help or 911, isn't that more of an issue than having someone inadvertantly scream out Pizza?

That's exactly the problem, and it happened at a local Scuba park close to Dallas earlier this year. Help was delayed for a few minutes. Unfortunately there was a fatality involved, that being said I have no idea if those few minutes would have made the difference or not. That's why this strikes so close to home for those of us who utilize CSSP as our local dive park.

Just so everyone is aware Illini_Fan, Vercingetorix, PlatypusMan, and myself all frequent the park where this incident happened so this topic has special interest to us, and others who utilize CSSP who have not yet posted in this thread.

thesmoothdome
07-30-2007, 14:08
My heart goes out to the victim and his family, friends and those involved in the rescue.

CompuDude
07-30-2007, 15:13
PADI standards or not, in 2 of 3 rescues class I have taken part in (all PADI), they had us call for pizza anytime others were within earshot. The one class we actually for help, the instructor was within a few feet of us and we were supposed to say it quietly to avoid any issues.

Calling for pizza feels weird every time. I don't anticipate any trouble remember to say "help" and not "pizza" in the event of a real emergency.

Jason
07-30-2007, 15:41
Im sure that no agency in there right mind would actually make a student cry for help. Are there any PADI instructors here that could verify that the actual words must be "Call 911"? I would be surprised to see something like that.

As an instructor you should evaluate the fact that the person demonstrating the skill has not forgotten to ask for EMS. Someone call for a pizza is substituted for a couple of reasons. Its silly and you usually cant wait to say it when you do get topside and almost never forget it. If someone does mistake me asking for a pizza and one does actually show up.... Awsome. It cost me less than 20 bucks and I get a pizza out of the deal!

TxHockeyGuy
07-30-2007, 15:56
Im sure that no agency in there right mind would actually make a student cry for help. Are there any PADI instructors here that could verify that the actual words must be "Call 911"? I would be surprised to see something like that.

As an instructor you should evaluate the fact that the person demonstrating the skill has not forgotten to ask for EMS. Someone call for a pizza is substituted for a couple of reasons. Its silly and you usually cant wait to say it when you do get topside and almost never forget it. If someone does mistake me asking for a pizza and one does actually show up.... Awsome. It cost me less than 20 bucks and I get a pizza out of the deal!

I'm not an instructor but have talked to a few and they all told me it was required, several also told me they didn't care and had their students use pizza and call for dominos anyway.

But, for those who are PADI instructors I'd like to see the wording if possible of those requirements. Maybe there's a loophole that satisfies standards but gets away from this nonsense.

cummings66
07-30-2007, 16:00
It's NOT a padi REQUIREMENT to call for help instead of pizza, it's a suggestion to the instructor that they do it that way and also that they not yell it so loud the world responds.

However, be that as it is, I'm not happy about either method. Calling for pizza is just plain stupid, and yelling for help is also stupid. I'd think something along the lines of how we do ES traffic on the radio would be better which is to preface the traffic which sounds real with some type of wording to indicate it's practice only. We use the word simulated. I'm sure something could be worked out. In my case I talked to the people on the beach and explained things, then when I surfaced and had to do it I said something along the likes, this is an exercise and not real.

I don't think Padi is entirely wrong in wanting people to train the way you dive, heck, GUE is all about that. You dive the same way, train the same way, no matter if it's your bathtub or ocean. You do it the same way every single time so that when you do it for real you do it the same way no matter what happens. That's what Padi is getting at, train like it was real. Makes some sense, however then you have the crowd that says nobody, even a moron, would ever hollar call for pizza when it was real and they wanted 911 or whatever. Again a good point that's probably true.

IMO both sides have a point to be taken, but what do I know. I'm only an average diver.

fire diver
07-30-2007, 17:08
I'm also curious what the exact wording of the PADI (or any agency) standards for instruction are. But it's purely from a clinical standpoint of curiousity. Even if it plainly stated "students must yell loudly for HELP and CALL 911" I'd ignore that as an instructor. Just becuase an agency said to have students do something dangerous and stupid, is no reason to actually do it.

Got to use our heads here.

FD

TxHockeyGuy
07-30-2007, 17:21
OK, here's the exact PADI wording. I asked if I could quote him and TwoBitTxn from ScubaBoard said that would be fine, so here it is.

----------------------------------------------

Straight from the PADI instructor guide. Page 3.86 in a little side box in little print.

"Note about calling for help: Under stress people tend to do things the way they've practiced them. Therefore it is best that students train by doing what they would do in an actual emergency as mush as possible. The optimum call for help is what they would really say..."

This is NOT in bold. So it is NOT a standard. I interpret it as a suggestion. It does not state that it must be yelled.

I'll be teaching a rescue class the end of August. My students (if I have any) will be taught what should be done in an emergency and will be practicing good habits without creating unnecessary commotion.

TwoBit

----------------------------------------------

So all these instructors from PADI who are saying this is required by standards are either misinformed or are not reading the text properly. PADI does recommend it, which I find ludicrous, but it is not required. I hope with this information we can hopefully get some of these instructors to stop this practice.

thesmoothdome
07-30-2007, 17:36
I just went through my instructor's manual, which was implemented back in 1992. Not one performance requirement specifically mentions calling 911 or yelling help. Of course, this could have been added in the subsequent 15 years since it was put out.

CompuDude
07-30-2007, 17:46
OK, here's the exact PADI wording. I asked if I could quote him and TwoBitTxn from ScubaBoard said that would be fine, so here it is.

----------------------------------------------

Straight from the PADI instructor guide. Page 3.86 in a little side box in little print.

"Note about calling for help: Under stress people tend to do things the way they've practiced them. Therefore it is best that students train by doing what they would do in an actual emergency as mush as possible. The optimum call for help is what they would really say ..."

This is NOT in bold. So it is NOT a standard. I interpret it as a suggestion. It does not state that it must be yelled.

I'll be teaching a rescue class the end of August. My students (if I have any) will be taught what should be done in an emergency and will be practicing good habits without creating unnecessary commotion.

TwoBit

----------------------------------------------

So all these instructors from PADI who are saying this is required by standards are either misinformed or are not reading the text properly. PADI does recommend it, which I find ludicrous, but it is not required. I hope with this information we can hopefully get some of these instructors to stop this practice.

I can confirm this, since I have the 2004 instructor manual open in front of me at page 3.86:


"A concern in some training locations is that bystanders may not be aware that there’s a class in progress. Although an approach is to have students yell something like, “Go for pizza,” that’s not the best way to train. In this case, a prudent method is to have a staff member (or the equipment handler in applicable exercises) first yell, “This is a practice drill!” The student calls for help, and the staff member follows with, “There is no emergency, this is only a drill!” Signs stating “diver rescue training in progress” posted around the site also help.]"

and


"Note about calling for help: Under stress, people tend to do things the way they’ve practiced them. Therefore, it’s best that students train by doing what they would actually do in a real emergency as much as possible. The optimum call for help is what they would really say, such as, “Help! I have a diver emergency! Call 911!” or whatever corresponds in the local area."

Again, these are comments and are not in bold and are not standards. So while PADI clearly feels this is "not the best way to train", since it is not a "Standard" there is no hard and fast rule about it and the instructor can make the call using their best judgment.

texdiveguy
07-30-2007, 17:57
Just a week ago at CSSP/Terrell Tx.....I was directly involved in a 2 divers in water rescue were I swam from shore....once the divers thrashing of the water caught my attention the calls for HELP began....because this is a facility used for a lot of Rescue class training...I hesitated for a split moment to confirm to myself that this was not a class in practice.....the yells for HELP were distinct but still I double checked before starting my assist. The point being that if a this facility and others that are used for training insisted and require divers/instructors/DM's to use words like PIZZA in practice...then the need for me in this case to hesitate and 'check' would not occur. Now having gone through an actual rescue with real life threating conditions...ever 'freaking' second counts! For classes using the word HELP in practice can and 'will' slow the response to actual emergences....in talking with other instructors that assisted on shore that afternoon...they to looked and double looked before relizing the situation was real and then they responded.
Bottom line as a dive Pro myself....and I have said it earlier...use other words in place of HELP in practice....if not you could cost someone their life. I can 99.9% assure you that if divers practice with words like PIZZA in Rescue classes....when the time comes they really need to yell for assistance---the word HELP will come forth and not PIZZA.

TxHockeyGuy
07-30-2007, 18:02
OK, here's the exact PADI wording. I asked if I could quote him and TwoBitTxn from ScubaBoard said that would be fine, so here it is.

----------------------------------------------

Straight from the PADI instructor guide. Page 3.86 in a little side box in little print.

"Note about calling for help: Under stress people tend to do things the way they've practiced them. Therefore it is best that students train by doing what they would do in an actual emergency as mush as possible. The optimum call for help is what they would really say ..."

This is NOT in bold. So it is NOT a standard. I interpret it as a suggestion. It does not state that it must be yelled.

I'll be teaching a rescue class the end of August. My students (if I have any) will be taught what should be done in an emergency and will be practicing good habits without creating unnecessary commotion.

TwoBit

----------------------------------------------

So all these instructors from PADI who are saying this is required by standards are either misinformed or are not reading the text properly. PADI does recommend it, which I find ludicrous, but it is not required. I hope with this information we can hopefully get some of these instructors to stop this practice.

I can confirm this, since I have the 2004 instructor manual open in front of me at page 3.86:


"A concern in some training locations is that bystanders may not be aware that there’s a class in progress. Although an approach is to have students yell something like, “Go for pizza,” that’s not the best way to train. In this case, a prudent method is to have a staff member (or the equipment handler in applicable exercises) first yell, “This is a practice drill!” The student calls for help, and the staff member follows with, “There is no emergency, this is only a drill!” Signs stating “diver rescue training in progress” posted around the site also help.]"

and


"Note about calling for help: Under stress, people tend to do things the way they’ve practiced them. Therefore, it’s best that students train by doing what they would actually do in a real emergency as much as possible. The optimum call for help is what they would really say, such as, “Help! I have a diver emergency! Call 911!” or whatever corresponds in the local area."

Again, these are comments and are not in bold and are not standards. So while PADI clearly feels this is "not the best way to train", since it is not a "Standard" there is no hard and fast rule about it and the instructor can make the call using their best judgment.

I'm really glad you posted this. This even more clearly shows that there is no requirement which may help us persuade dive park owners to ban the use of the words help and call 911 entirely for rescue classes. I'm hoping I get a reply from Robert at CSSP on an email I sent. If I do I'll be sure to direct him here if he doesn't have a restriction on the use of the words help or call 911.

Bill22
07-30-2007, 18:17
Seems like the Supreme Court once ruled that "freedom of speech" did not allow someone to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater! I'm not a rescue diver, but I was a Red Cross certified lifeguard when I was younger. I've been through Red Cross and AHA CPR classes numerous times through the years (currently you have to re-certify every two years with AHA) and I am currently AHA certified in CPR/AED. Red Cross and AHA also teach their students to say "go for help" or "call 911". Training the way we would act in "real life" is not a bad thing. Having said that, yelling at the top of our lungs is not what we would do in real life if we were directing our instructions at the nearest "bystander". In real life you would tell someone in a "firm" tone what you needed them to do. No need to scream at the top of your lungs when someone is standing right next to you! You would only yell if you were trying to get someone's attention who was a distance away from you. If conducting the training in a public place, I think the best compromise is one that has already been suggested. Preface your training exercise with an announcement that it is a training scenario and repeat this after also to make sure there is no confusion.

Jason
07-30-2007, 18:19
Does PADI recommend rescue breathes when surfacing a no-breathing diver? If so, do you actually do this and is it discouraged to simulate?

Bill22
07-30-2007, 18:26
This even more clearly shows that there is no requirement which may help us persuade dive park owners to ban the use of the words help and call 911 entirely for rescue classes.

I would think the fear of liability would be enough of an incentive. Think about it.... the dive park owner allows someone to yell these words out loudly enough that everyone around hear's them and often enough that confusion results in the event of a "real" emergency. Sounds to me like a good lawyer could get a pretty nice settlement out of the park and the scuba instructor that was present if anything happened!

CompuDude
07-30-2007, 19:02
Does PADI recommend rescue breathes when surfacing a no-breathing diver? If so, do you actually do this and is it discouraged to simulate?
No.

Rescue breaths begin upon surfacing.

The regulator is supposed to be kept in the victim's mouth during the ascent, and the assisting diver should hold it in place to ensure this. Should the victim begin breathing on their own during the ascent, and the assisting diver had removed the regulator to deliver "rescue breaths"... well, I don't think I need to go further with the scenario to see that it is not a good thing.

georoc01
07-30-2007, 19:50
I remember running into this in a CPR class. We were told we had to say it out loud in order to pass the class. Of course, its a big difference being in a confined class room vs a public dive park.

cummings66
07-30-2007, 20:04
Jason was getting at a different point. He knew padi simulates the rescue breathing because to actually do it to a normally breathing person might cause that person to have problems.

His point is that you should yell pizza and not anything else. Of course it's based on faulty logic. You could kill somebody by giving them rescue breathing when they don't need it, you can't kill somebody by quietly saying call 911.

I get his point however. I get both sides actually. Did I catch your drift Jason?

texdiveguy
07-30-2007, 20:17
In 'real' life you do what you can and what works best under the circumstance. One of the 2 divers I rescued was 2.5ft. underwater and sinking..no reg. in the mouth and eyes and 'mouth' closed. Upon bringing the diver to the surface I intentionally over inflated the BCD in order to force water from the divers mouth and nose..it worked very well and the diver resumed breathing although labored. So the point I am making is that Rescue training is no hard fact when it comes to technique and what is ness. right and wrong....you will find you react to the incident in its individual needs. Though the training I received payed off in giving me the general protocols to follow and some key things to check for and do in and out of the water.

TxHockeyGuy
07-30-2007, 21:20
I thought I'd let everyone know that I just heard back from Tim Hataway (WebMaster for CSSP) and apparently Robert (owner of CSSP) has told all instructors that the shouting of help or call 911 is NOT ALLOWED. Apparently they did take the time to contact PADI and they were also told that calling for help and such is not required per standards, as previously established. I personally think this is a great rule and fully support them on this.

On another note, I encourage anyone who is out at CSSP and notices a class not following this rule to speak up. If you're not comfortable talking to the instructor get Robert, let him set them straight. It won't take long before everyone is aware of this rule.

Jason
07-30-2007, 23:09
Jason was getting at a different point. He knew padi simulates the rescue breathing because to actually do it to a normally breathing person might cause that person to have problems.

His point is that you should yell pizza and not anything else. Of course it's based on faulty logic. You could kill somebody by giving them rescue breathing when they don't need it, you can't kill somebody by quietly saying call 911.

I get his point however. I get both sides actually. Did I catch your drift Jason?


Yes, I suppose I didnt re-read my comment. surfacing was the word I used. I should have stated Surfaced. but yes, cummings you did kinda catch my drift. My point is if PADI requires you to perform during training as you would during a real event, then does PADI recommend you give 2 rescue breaths once you have surfaced your simulated unconscious diver?

I dont think it would harm a person that is alive and breathing, but would be uncomfortable. So where does PADI draw the line of what should be performed during a training? My point is that if plenty of people become accustomed to hearing "Call 911" there may be hesitation or questioning involved or even worse... dismissal.

Jason
07-30-2007, 23:17
Does PADI recommend rescue breathes when surfacing a no-breathing diver? If so, do you actually do this and is it discouraged to simulate?
No.

Rescue breaths begin upon surfacing.

The regulator is supposed to be kept in the victim's mouth during the ascent, and the assisting diver should hold it in place to ensure this. Should the victim begin breathing on their own during the ascent, and the assisting diver had removed the regulator to deliver "rescue breaths"... well, I don't think I need to go further with the scenario to see that it is not a good thing.

My bad, thats what I meant to say. I need to re-read some of the stuff I type. surfaced would have been a better word!

:smiley20: good eye!

Dive-aholic
07-31-2007, 02:42
I'm glad to see it's been established that it's not a PADI standard to yell 911. However, PADI does encourage it, as do other training agencies. Train as if it were for real. I agree with this reasoning. I understand that people may be a little on edge at CSSP lately, but that doesn't mean training shouldn't continue. Have any of the instructors been yelling "This is only a drill" after the call for help and 911? That's what my wife and I do. We just held a Rescue course at a very popular lake this past weekend. Our students yelled Help and Call 911. They towed each other and us through the water while simulating rescue breathing. They even simulated chest compressions. Heck, I even blew a whistle and called for help on a land scenario. Guess what, no one called 911. They all knew we were in a training class because we called out "This is only a drill." Five simple words make quite a difference.

ScubyDoo
07-31-2007, 21:29
I received my rescue training and certification from PADI, and my personal opinion on this issue is mixed. I feel strongly that the more realistic the training is, the better the training is. That being said, my rescue open water training was done in a remote location on the very large Lake Ouachita. At our remote location, we were able to make the training scenarios as real-world as possible, without concern for unecessarily alarming nearby patrons who may misconstrue it as a real life emergency. With that level of freedom, we were able to play our parts as well as any Hollywood movie. It was extremely realistic, and I believe it better prepared us for a real life emergency should it occur. Yelling "Pizza.....Call Dominoes" may be necessary in a crowded public setting, but it diminishes the reality of the training.

That being said, I think its just wrong to scream "Help....Call 911" in the middle of a crowded scuba park. Once people get used to it being "just a drill", what happens when a REAL emergency occurs? And what about people who arent used to the drills? They think its real, and the 911 system is flooded with unecessary calls, which could block calls from real emergencies.

I dont think you can criticize PADI's desire to make rescue scenario's real world. It does provide more realistic training. I think it needs to be addressed on a case by case basis, depending on the remoteness of the training site. Remote training site...GOOD....Public training site....BAD..

techgnostic
07-31-2007, 22:09
The one class we actually for help, the instructor was within a few feet of us and we were supposed to say it quietly to avoid any issues.

That would be my solution if a PADI instructor would not bend: "hey, it doesn't say we have to yell at any particular db range...."

medictom
08-08-2007, 21:58
I'm also an instructor for 4 agencies, but soon to be down to 3 as I don't really care about being active status next year for the group known as Put Another Dollar In!
I think if one of my students from the other 3 agencies yelled that out I'd probably belt em!Especially if you have passers by on the beach where you are doing your OWT, I don't think anyone would appreciate having their 80 yo Granny being knocked over while somebody is making a dash for a phone.
But like I said, only my 2 cents worth!!

chinacat46
08-13-2007, 14:09
I'm a PADI instructor and just taught a rescue class this past weekend. At no time did I have my students yell for help or call 911. I tell them they can yell F1, F1, F1 or call for pizza but never to call for help or call 911 unless it's a true emergency. For those of you who don't know what F1 is and are using windows push the F1 key now and the HELP menu comes up.

techgnostic
08-14-2007, 00:45
I'm a PADI instructor and just taught a rescue class this past weekend. At no time did I have my students yell for help or call 911. I tell them they can yell F1, F1, F1 or call for pizza but never to call for help or call 911 unless it's a true emergency. For those of you who don't know what F1 is and are using windows push the F1 key now and the HELP menu comes up.

Nice, computer tips as well...trey cool. "Pizza" seems to be the word of choice.

TxHockeyGuy
08-14-2007, 10:26
I'm a PADI instructor and just taught a rescue class this past weekend. At no time did I have my students yell for help or call 911. I tell them they can yell F1, F1, F1 or call for pizza but never to call for help or call 911 unless it's a true emergency. For those of you who don't know what F1 is and are using windows push the F1 key now and the HELP menu comes up.

Nice, computer tips as well...trey cool. "Pizza" seems to be the word of choice.

Well of course it is, you might just get some pizza for lunch during your rescue class (we did ;) ).

techgnostic
08-17-2007, 19:48
I'm a PADI instructor and just taught a rescue class this past weekend. At no time did I have my students yell for help or call 911. I tell them they can yell F1, F1, F1 or call for pizza but never to call for help or call 911 unless it's a true emergency. For those of you who don't know what F1 is and are using windows push the F1 key now and the HELP menu comes up.

Nice, computer tips as well...trey cool. "Pizza" seems to be the word of choice.

Well of course it is, you might just get some pizza for lunch during your rescue class (we did ;) ).

Sweeeeeeeet!