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cummings66
02-17-2008, 18:31
I'm going to take an inspection course, the shops I know of that teach is teach TDI or PSI. I've been told PSI is more in depth, I've been told both are fine. My LDS has already signed off on me taking it so I have an affiliation with a shop now.

Have any of you taken those brands of courses and what did you think of it? TDI for me is easier to take because the shop is only 8 or so hours away. The PSI one would be about 12 hours away, so I'm not leaning that way very strongly.

in_cavediver
02-17-2008, 18:50
I'm going to take an inspection course, the shops I know of that teach is teach TDI or PSI. I've been told PSI is more in depth, I've been told both are fine. My LDS has already signed off on me taking it so I have an affiliation with a shop now.

Have any of you taken those brands of courses and what did you think of it? TDI for me is easier to take because the shop is only 8 or so hours away. The PSI one would be about 12 hours away, so I'm not leaning that way very strongly.

I did the Scuba Cylinders Inspection International class and it was pretty bad. For the volume of tanks I do - IE, just mine, the CGA guides and the class was enough. If I were to actively look to take another - it would be PSI. Bill High has a great course.

Just remember, despite what some like to claim, the only visual really required and held to any true standard is the DOT one done at hydro. All of the others are just 'industry standard'. There is nothing stopping a shop from printing stickers and inspecting tanks. (no class or training at all)

texdiveguy
02-17-2008, 20:41
I took the PSI course myself and it was very complete.....8 hours of materials tought and I was the only student (another person was signed up but was a no-show).....I drove 3 hours for the course. I inspect primarily my own tanks and dive buddies. I have no clue about the TDI course...but it is probably pretty good. IMO PSI is the most recognized training and is less likely for a shop to call your training/certf. into question (I have never been questioned by any shops). I don't know what you mean by your dive shop has signed off on you to take the course....no dive shop has to sign off on a person taking this program....(?)

cummings66
02-17-2008, 21:47
TDI on their web page says for you to take the course you need to be affiliated with a dive shop. I don't know about PSI but I assume based on your posting it's not necessary.

cummings66
02-17-2008, 21:52
Just remember, despite what some like to claim, the only visual really required and held to any true standard is the DOT one done at hydro. All of the others are just 'industry standard'. There is nothing stopping a shop from printing stickers and inspecting tanks. (no class or training at all)

By the same token there is nothing to prevent me from printing my own and doing the same, ala Oxy Hacker's handbook... I don't think it's wrong either and based on some of the guys doing vis's that I have personally seen I know I can do as good a job as they do.

I know there can be more to it than opening the tank and looking for rust/corrosion and inspecting threads as many think. It kind of depends on what you see when you get there.

I would like though to have a course that shows me as well as tells me in the book what needs to be done, what is marginal, so on so forth. In other words real life examples are invaluable IMO. Plus if it's a certifying agency that issues a number then it kind of helps if somebody calls your inspection into question.

I know that occurs because I've seen dive shops refuse to fill tanks vip'd by another dive shop.

Dive-aholic
02-17-2008, 22:12
I took the TDI course. It was more convenient for me and I only needed the cert anyway. I was already self taught through the Oxyhacker and PSI books. And yes, TDI says you should be affiliated with a business or organization that has a high pressure compressor. That could be very loosely interpreted. Being a customer is an affiliation...

texdiveguy
02-17-2008, 22:22
I took the TDI course. It was more convenient for me and I only needed the cert anyway. I was already self taught through the Oxyhacker and PSI books. And yes, TDI says you should be affiliated with a business or organization that has a high pressure compressor. That could be very loosely interpreted. Being a customer is an affiliation...

I don't see the reasoning in the TDI statement as you guys have mentioned. I had read and have Oxyhackers book and had read the PSI manuals prior to the course....but there is a ton of stuff not covered and those books, and the actual hands on training and testing is a great value. I think anyone doing inspections should complete the course study, just makes good sense.

Dive-aholic
02-17-2008, 22:32
I'm not sure I really understand it either other than possibly for some liability reason that some lawyer cooked up when reviewing their standards. Who knows. I agree the hands on training is good, but I'm not so sure there was much not covered in the books. What did you learn that wasn't covered in them?

texdiveguy
02-17-2008, 22:43
I'm not sure I really understand it either other than possibly for some liability reason that some lawyer cooked up when reviewing their standards. Who knows. I agree the hands on training is good, but I'm not so sure there was much not covered in the books. What did you learn that wasn't covered in them?

For me the on hands portion of the course was great in learning the use of the inspection tools....examples of tanks that had defects and seeing those examples first hand....then the actual 8 test cylinders I had to inspect for problems....that you don't get from a text book. Books are great aids, but don't replace 'doing'.

Dive-aholic
02-18-2008, 03:58
I agree the hands on is great. By the time I took the course I had already VIPed a couple dozen tanks, though. But yeah, nothing replaces actually doing it if you take a course from someone who has several tanks available for class.

in_cavediver
02-18-2008, 05:25
Tex is right about the hands on aspect. The only really good thing I got from my course was seeing 10 or so tanks with flaws/defects that condemn them. The rest - well, I got that from the CGA guides and Vance Harlows book. I still refer to the CGA publications when doing visuals.

texdiveguy
02-18-2008, 10:03
Of those of us that are doing annual inspections... do you use a custom--agency--LDS VIP decal..???

I use PSI decals myself.

:)

in_cavediver
02-18-2008, 11:21
Of those of us that are doing annual inspections... do you use a custom--agency--LDS VIP decal..???

I use PSI decals myself.

:)

Custom, with my name, and cert number.

texdiveguy
02-18-2008, 13:06
Of those of us that are doing annual inspections... do you use a custom--agency--LDS VIP decal..???

I use PSI decals myself.

:)

Custom, with my name, and cert number.

That's cool. :)

I have been using the PSI decal and writing my name/certf. number on them.

ScaredSilly
02-18-2008, 22:11
I took the PSI course at DEMA and use their certs. The hands on part of the course is the real meat. I also like the fact that I can use them as a reference.

Dive-aholic
02-20-2008, 15:09
I made my own stickers for a while, but started buying them from a TDI shop about a year ago - less hassle. Actually, where I'm at now most fill stations I go to don't require stickers.

CompuDude
02-20-2008, 15:41
How much does the PSI course usually run? I've kicked around the idea of taking one, but I seem to recall reading that the price is relatively high so it's not always worth it from a financial perspective.

I prefer the PSI over the TDI course because of the lack of a requirement for a shop affiliation and the broader acceptance. (Sort of like my preference for PADI over SSI... nearly the same situation!)

No Misses
02-20-2008, 16:09
I just looked up the cost for the PSI course. $375! That works out to 37 VIPs. That is 5 years worth of VIPs for me.

texdiveguy
02-20-2008, 16:28
My PSI course was $200.00,,,,its a great thing when you own a number of tanks and you are the sorta person that just likes doing it yourself.

CompuDude
02-20-2008, 17:14
My PSI course was $200.00,,,,its a great thing when you own a number of tanks and you are the sorta person that just likes doing it yourself.

Let's see, I have:

2x HP100s (dubs)
3x HP100s (singles)
2x Al.80s (dubs)
1x HP119 (single)
1x LP95 (single)
1x LP80 (single)
1x AL.40 (deco)

That's 11 tanks (ignore the o2 cleaning on the deco bottle for now), so at $10 per VIP per tank per year, at $200 I'd pay for my course in under 2 years.

Sounds like I should probably go for it, if I can find a $200 course. At $375 it starts to get a little more iffy, though. Still pays for itself, but over a much longer stretch.

cummings66
02-20-2008, 18:52
One of the reasons I think to take the course is that you might have more options when it comes to your tanks. Want to double them up? Well, many shops would make you get a vis because you bled them down, want to make them singles, same story. Want to O2 clean a tank? Think that last dive shop has questionable air? Well, lots of reasons exist to open and look at tanks, or at least open them and being able to do your own inspections makes it easier on you. Owning a large number of tanks also is the greatest reason to do so, or to be honest if you did your tanks and a buddies you could have more of a reason as well.

Around my parts nobody O2 cleans a tank, I have to go down South on a 5 hour drive to get that done. Not very convienient, add the cost of gas to drive there and then the $20 for the cleaning and vis and you're half way there. Do that a couple times and I've paid for it. For me the O2 cleaning is one of the biggies, plus I can know the condition of my tanks without relying on somebody who may or may not know how to inspect a tank.

Look at Grins post in the pony thread, you'll see him mention a shop that just looks inside a tank, that's not a good inspection and it's all too common. For me I want to know it was done right.

texdiveguy
02-20-2008, 19:41
One of the reasons I think to take the course is that you might have more options when it comes to your tanks. Want to double them up? Well, many shops would make you get a vis because you bled them down, want to make them singles, same story. Want to O2 clean a tank? Think that last dive shop has questionable air? Well, lots of reasons exist to open and look at tanks, or at least open them and being able to do your own inspections makes it easier on you. Owning a large number of tanks also is the greatest reason to do so, or to be honest if you did your tanks and a buddies you could have more of a reason as well.

Around my parts nobody O2 cleans a tank, I have to go down South on a 5 hour drive to get that done. Not very convienient, add the cost of gas to drive there and then the $20 for the cleaning and vis and you're half way there. Do that a couple times and I've paid for it. For me the O2 cleaning is one of the biggies, plus I can know the condition of my tanks without relying on somebody who may or may not know how to inspect a tank.

Look at Grins post in the pony thread, you'll see him mention a shop that just looks inside a tank, that's not a good inspection and it's all too common. For me I want to know it was done right.

FYI only--- A scuba cylinder inspector course (PSI) does not include training or certf. on O2 cleaning of tanks.....that is done during a gas blender course. I am both an inspector and TMx level blender so I do both and it saves mega dollars and having to turn over my gear to others.

terrillja
02-20-2008, 19:56
My PSI course was $200.00,,,,its a great thing when you own a number of tanks and you are the sorta person that just likes doing it yourself.
What do the basic tools cost that you need to do the inspections?

cummings66
02-20-2008, 20:52
that is done during a gas blender course. I am both an inspector and TMx level blender so I do both and it saves mega dollars and having to turn over my gear to others.

I should have clarified that part of it. It's one of my goals to do, basically 3 ones for this year. Get Advanced Nitrox/Deco, Tank inspector, and blend done. I feel as if the last two are necessary as a technical diver because it gets me more in touch with things, plus I intend on doing my own mixes as there are far too many times I've wanted Nitrox only to find they're out of O2.

That won't happen if I do my own. I'm a pilot so I can easily get my hands on O2, of course you get into the arguments of welding O2 vs Aviation vs Medical. I'll side with Aviation, but to tell the truth I've breathed welding as well.

CompuDude
02-20-2008, 21:00
That won't happen if I do my own. I'm a pilot so I can easily get my hands on O2, of course you get into the arguments of welding O2 vs Aviation vs Medical. I'll side with Aviation, but to tell the truth I've breathed welding as well.

For liability reasons, I would never recommend anyone use anything other medical grade, but personally, I see Aviation grade as just as good also. I wouldn't turn up my nose if someone handed me a bottle of welding grade, either, but I probably wouldn't purchase it given a choice.

texdiveguy
02-20-2008, 21:08
That won't happen if I do my own. I'm a pilot so I can easily get my hands on O2, of course you get into the arguments of welding O2 vs Aviation vs Medical. I'll side with Aviation, but to tell the truth I've breathed welding as well.

For liability reasons, I would never recommend anyone use anything other medical grade, but personally, I see Aviation grade as just as good also. I wouldn't turn up my nose if someone handed me a bottle of welding grade, either, but I probably wouldn't purchase it given a choice.

I will not use welding grade O2.....aviation is to dry for my taste so medical grade is the best solution. Now we can discuss the various grades of He....course that will only apply if you are lucky enough to be diving trimix. It's all a gasser!! :)

terrillja
02-20-2008, 21:10
I'm a pilot so I can easily get my hands on O2, of course you get into the arguments of welding O2 vs Aviation vs Medical. I'll side with Aviation, but to tell the truth I've breathed welding as well.
A pilot as well as a diver? You lead an expensive life...

Dive-aholic
02-21-2008, 10:13
One of the reasons I think to take the course is that you might have more options when it comes to your tanks. Want to double them up? Well, many shops would make you get a vis because you bled them down, want to make them singles, same story.

All you need is a trans fill whip and no one would ever know you bled your tanks down.

As for the different grades of O2, some suppliers get all their O2 from the same bank. They just label it medical, aviator, or welding depending on who they are selling to. It's a lot cheaper for them to keep one bank than 3. The only difference is the price they charge.

texdiveguy
02-21-2008, 10:49
One of the reasons I think to take the course is that you might have more options when it comes to your tanks. Want to double them up? Well, many shops would make you get a vis because you bled them down, want to make them singles, same story.

All you need is a trans fill whip and no one would ever know you bled your tanks down.

As for the different grades of O2, some suppliers get all their O2 from the same bank. They just label it medical, aviator, or welding depending on who they are selling to. It's a lot cheaper for them to keep one bank than 3. The only difference is the price they charge.

The prime difference in O2 grades available to the consumer is the method in which the storage tank is prepped prior to the O2 fill. Its sad to have a vendor cutting corners and deceiving their customers to save a few bucks.

doczerothree
02-21-2008, 16:16
about 7 years ago i took a blender class out in Texas. I think it was Adventure Scuba. SID STOVALL.. IANTD we vis..ed and O2 cleaned tanks. It was a while ago but i remember vis..ing and cleaning tanks most of the evening and into the night after taking the didactic portion of the class.

cummings66
02-21-2008, 18:49
Welding tanks are the area of risk due to the cleaning they don't get based on my conversations. An aviation tank or medical tank get good cleanings and either are safe, as another poster said they get filled from the same master tank anyhow, or so they tell me.

Around here we have Airgas and Linweld. Airgas is pretty high for no added value. Both will question the usage if they think it's for something other than welding. The pilots certificate gets me in the door easy, I've never bothered trying to talk about medical grade. I don't know if there's a law that says we've got to have a prescription, but rumors abound that it's a common practice.

I have never done my own Nitrox Fills because I don't have a compressor to finish them up with, but I may soon have a bank to do that. My real LDS who's also a hydro facility says that he gets storage bottles in every so often and it wouldn't cost me much to buy, his fee to fill them is $20 which is reasonable. I could setup a bank and do my PP fills at that point which is down the road. That's one reason I'm wanting to do these courses, it prepares me for the future.

texdiveguy
02-21-2008, 19:06
Welding tanks are the area of risk due to the cleaning they don't get based on my conversations. An aviation tank or medical tank get good cleanings and either are safe, as another poster said they get filled from the same master tank anyhow, or so they tell me.

Around here we have Airgas and Linweld. Airgas is pretty high for no added value. Both will question the usage if they think it's for something other than welding. The pilots certificate gets me in the door easy, I've never bothered trying to talk about medical grade. I don't know if there's a law that says we've got to have a prescription, but rumors abound that it's a common practice.

I have never done my own Nitrox Fills because I don't have a compressor to finish them up with, but I may soon have a bank to do that. My real LDS who's also a hydro facility says that he gets storage bottles in every so often and it wouldn't cost me much to buy, his fee to fill them is $20 which is reasonable. I could setup a bank and do my PP fills at that point which is down the road. That's one reason I'm wanting to do these courses, it prepares me for the future.

Sounds like you have a plan. :)

Yes it all has to do with the O2 cylinder and its pre prep to filling with O2.

Welding cylinders of O2 don't not have a vacuum drawn on them prior to fill/refills.

In our area you pretty much have to have an Rx for medical grade O2 which is what I like, but aviation grade though being drier will work ok and is used alot.

I know several divers that use welding grade at home for blending, hey whatever makes one happy.

in_cavediver
02-22-2008, 05:15
On welding grade, I ask what contaminants could get in there. HP O2 is not something to be toyed with so in most cases, its just as clean as the other grades. BTW, welding grade by standards is purer than med o2.

I personally would get aviators. It costs $2 more than welding and is dry. It's designed for breathing and it doesn't have the issues as med o2 does.

Crimediver
02-22-2008, 06:46
I own about 30 tanks annd I save some bucks doing my own inspections. My LE agency paid for my PSI course so I really lucked out in that regard. They also bought my tools to inspect tanks. I noticed my lights can be easily made by a competent DIY person. Dental mirrors are also easily obtained. I already had bore inspection lights as I am also a firearms armorer. I suspect a person could get set up for inspection tools for under 50 bucks.
The big expensive tool that is not required but really is nice is a TIP tool. I believe it is hundreds of dollars. I can get by with my mirror. I believe I can look around and find a link for some very affordable lights.
Some guys use a string of XMas lights to do inspections. While the price may be tempting you should only use low voltage DC lights due to hazard of electrocution.

skdvr
02-22-2008, 08:25
So if you take the gas blender course so you can do the O2 cleaning, do you still have to have another course for the Vis? I guess the cleaning is just that a cleaning and not an inspection? My LDS told me that if I do the gas blender course that I can come in and O2 clean my own tanks for no charge, but I guess it still needs a vis huh?

Thanks
Phil

texdiveguy
02-22-2008, 10:53
So if you take the gas blender course so you can do the O2 cleaning, do you still have to have another course for the Vis? I guess the cleaning is just that a cleaning and not an inspection? My LDS told me that if I do the gas blender course that I can come in and O2 clean my own tanks for no charge, but I guess it still needs a vis huh?

Thanks
Phil

You are correct....a blending class will in most cases....at least the DSAT program I took will teach the basics in gas blending/methods/safety and also O2 cleaning of cylinders. Most agencies including DSAT have 2 levels of blender....one for EAN and then the TMx course that includes EAN. You will still need a separate class to get certf. as a cylinder inspector from say PSI or TDI. Nice your LDS will work with you.....if you have the time/$ both courses are educational and fun....some folks just take them for the experience they offer and the background info. even though they may not be involved in daily cleaning or inspections. Good luck.

skdvr
02-22-2008, 11:20
some folks just take them for the experience they offer and the background info. even though they may not be involved in daily cleaning or inspections. Good luck.

That is why I want to take them... I just like to learn. I like to know as much as possible about the stuff I am doing.

Thanks for the info...

Phil

CompuDude
02-22-2008, 12:12
I own about 30 tanks annd I save some bucks doing my own inspections. My LE agency paid for my PSI course so I really lucked out in that regard. They also bought my tools to inspect tanks. I noticed my lights can be easily made by a competent DIY person. Dental mirrors are also easily obtained. I already had bore inspection lights as I am also a firearms armorer. I suspect a person could get set up for inspection tools for under 50 bucks.
The big expensive tool that is not required but really is nice is a TIP tool. I believe it is hundreds of dollars. I can get by with my mirror. I believe I can look around and find a link for some very affordable lights.
Some guys use a string of XMas lights to do inspections. While the price may be tempting you should only use low voltage DC lights due to hazard of electrocution.

DeepSeaSupply has a really nice inspection light. Shipping is kinda high for a cheap item, however. I live nearby, so one of these days I plan to swing by and pick one up to avoid that issue.

https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?product=1311

skdvr
02-25-2008, 16:58
how long does the certification last for if you go through PSI??? Is it something that you have to renew every year?

Thanks
Phil

texdiveguy
02-25-2008, 16:59
how long does the certification last for if you go through PSI??? Is it something that you have to renew every year?

Thanks
Phil

Its good for a period of 3 years and then you take a refresher class.

rfb3
02-25-2008, 17:05
I took the PSI course myself and it was very complete.....8 hours of materials tought and I was the only student (another person was signed up but was a no-show).....I drove 3 hours for the course. I inspect primarily my own tanks and dive buddies. I have no clue about the TDI course...but it is probably pretty good. IMO PSI is the most recognized training and is less likely for a shop to call your training/certf. into question (I have never been questioned by any shops). I don't know what you mean by your dive shop has signed off on you to take the course....no dive shop has to sign off on a person taking this program....(?)

I don't want to minimize this, but what could take 8 hours to convey concerning tank inspection?

texdiveguy
02-25-2008, 17:15
I took the PSI course myself and it was very complete.....8 hours of materials tought and I was the only student (another person was signed up but was a no-show).....I drove 3 hours for the course. I inspect primarily my own tanks and dive buddies. I have no clue about the TDI course...but it is probably pretty good. IMO PSI is the most recognized training and is less likely for a shop to call your training/certf. into question (I have never been questioned by any shops). I don't know what you mean by your dive shop has signed off on you to take the course....no dive shop has to sign off on a person taking this program....(?)

I don't want to minimize this, but what could take 8 hours to convey concerning tank inspection?

It is a 'full course' that takes you through the entire proc. of doing a quality inspection. There is a lot more to it than just peering off into a hole in the top of a tank. It would take to long to outline everything that is covered,,I might suggest you contact a PSI instructor or PSI direct for a complete course description. Its a good program.

rfb3
02-25-2008, 17:17
Well, like I said, I am sure there's more to it than meets the eye, but I was just curious. I just bought a couple of tanks so I am check it out when the time comes...

cummings66
02-25-2008, 19:07
If you really want to know the process of what you do read the instructions on Luxfers site on what they want looked at. Now consider how long it takes you to learn how to look at each thing they want done, and then consider how long it'll take you to take the test so to speak.

I'm sure the 8 hours is well spent, I've not found a person yet that said it could be whipped out in a couple hours no sweat.

This much I do know, many shops are guilty of a peek inside slap on the label inspection. I'm not sure why, but it's very common and I'm guessing it comes from the instructor teaching the student who in turn teaches somebody else. Something gets lost in the process. Next time you visit a dive shop, ask if the VIS inspector is certified. I'll bet many of them are not and if pressed can't show you the documentation for currency. Some take the course and then after 3 years don't take the refresher, so they're not current.

I know for my desires the PSI course seems to be best and most widely recognized, and then the gas blender course will be the next to complement it.

I went to some gas shops today to check things out. A T bottle can be bought for $325 with a 15 year buyback guarantee of the same amount, and the fills for it are $30 if I have them deliver it. I think they said the bottle full might way a little over 200 lbs so delivery might be ideal. I'm working on access to storage bottles for air so I can get O2 compatible air in them, my hydro facility is looking for me and they also have O2 compatible air they'll sell me in those bottles for about $20 a fill. I could do my own Nitrox fills really reasonable in price that way, but there's still a lot of dotting the i's and crossing of the T's before I'm there. When done though I can do my own fills of either air or Nitrox for when I can't get to a shop to get it. It won't be a solution for every fill because I want to minimize the usage to where when I'm home on Sunday and the shop is closed I can get a fill at home, it's mostly a backup to when the dive shops are closed.

In the end after the training the dive shop will list me as a part time employee so I can do my fills and all, but there's some hoops to jump through there as well because they want the insurance coverage.

texdiveguy
02-25-2008, 19:26
I will tell you right now that most shop visual inspectors do not take refresher course once having gone through the program....does not make it right but it is just a fact of life in that business. Many shop inspectors do less than quality inspections also, its a shame.

If you want it done correctly and know what your getting, do it yourself.

:)

cummings66
02-26-2008, 07:35
I know in my job as an Electronics Technician that the factories offer mandatory training every so often. The reason is that once in a while things change or there's a new way to do something and they want us to know. Sometimes it's to help us make more money, other times it's to insure a better repair.

I think when it comes to tanks that this may not be very true often, but there may come a time when there's a better way of doing it. I don't know how often the standards change, I suspect once with AL tanks but don't know for certain.

At any rate, today I'm going to call the shop that teaches the PSI course and see about arranging my participation in it. It's still a few months away but it'll give me time to study the books better.

rfb3
02-26-2008, 08:21
What's the cost of the class, and are there any in the Dallas area you know of?

cummings66
02-26-2008, 12:12
The class I'm looking at will cost me $250 and is visual only, not the +. Because I dive steel tanks I won't miss that addition. I'm sure there's got to be something somewhere down there, psi has a webpage listing instructors and you could search it. PSI / PCI (http://www.psicylinders.com/)

Tex might be able to tell you where he took his, he lives down there, Texas is a big state and hopefylly it's got something closer.

The real question is, is it worth $250 to you to be able to inspect your tanks? Can it be recouped quickly or take years and never pay off?

For me and the tanks I own, 6 of them, it would never be justified from that standpoint. The knowledge of it being right to me is worth it. I've seen far to many peek inside and say it's good to go inspections to suit me. While I don't know of any tanks that have exploded on a dviers back, I'd feel better knowing my tanks are right in the first place so that it won't explode during a fill, not that it's common.

rfb3
02-26-2008, 12:37
The real question is, is it worth $250 to you to be able to inspect your tanks? Can it be recouped quickly or take years and never pay off?


Good point here. My club does the VIPs each year in Jan/Feb... I wonder if ST allows you to wait and watch whuile they do the VIPs?

texdiveguy
02-26-2008, 12:45
What's the cost of the class, and are there any in the Dallas area you know of?

I took my course with Scuba Diving - C&J Divers Scuba 2000 (http://www.cjdivers.com/default.asp) (Chris Mendoza), he was highly recommended.

CompuDude
02-26-2008, 13:07
The class I'm looking at will cost me $250 and is visual only, not the +. Because I dive steel tanks I won't miss that addition. I'm sure there's got to be something somewhere down there, psi has a webpage listing instructors and you could search it. PSI / PCI (http://www.psicylinders.com/)

Tex might be able to tell you where he took his, he lives down there, Texas is a big state and hopefylly it's got something closer.

The real question is, is it worth $250 to you to be able to inspect your tanks? Can it be recouped quickly or take years and never pay off?

For me and the tanks I own, 6 of them, it would never be justified from that standpoint. The knowledge of it being right to me is worth it. I've seen far to many peek inside and say it's good to go inspections to suit me. While I don't know of any tanks that have exploded on a dviers back, I'd feel better knowing my tanks are right in the first place so that it won't explode during a fill, not that it's common.

Yikes, I just checked and the "local" CA guy charges $350... and it's in Folsom, which is 400 miles away! Suddenly, it's not worth it for me any more...

cummings66
02-26-2008, 15:17
400 miles is a long ways, and $350 isn't chump change either.

CompuDude
02-26-2008, 15:43
400 miles is a long ways, and $350 isn't chump change either.

Actually, I looked on the instructor bio pages and there are a couple listed who are much more local. I dropped them an email to see if they still do classes, since only the one guy has classes on the schedule.

But even local, for $350, it's not as worth it for me. $250 I can justify in 2 years or less, with the number of tanks I own. $350... I'd rather just pay the $10 here and there.

ScaredSilly
02-26-2008, 20:48
CD your in LA, wait until this fall when DEMA comes to Vegas and take the course then. PADI usually has a promo for DM/AI/I for a few bucks off. Then pick up a pass for the show for $50 and go see the toys. Good fun.

CompuDude
02-26-2008, 21:03
CD your in LA, wait until this fall when DEMA comes to Vegas and take the course then. PADI usually has a promo for DM/AI/I for a few bucks off. Then pick up a pass for the show for $50 and go see the toys. Good fun.

You want me to go to Vegas. And then sit in a class?

:smilie39:

:smiley2:

cummings66
02-26-2008, 21:25
If you had gas blending, and the vis course how much more money would you save then? I get charged about $20 for an O2 cleaning, $10 for a fill, and $15 for a vis. If I bring multiple tanks by at the same time I get some slack but a single tank isn't cheap to do all of the above.

texdiveguy
02-26-2008, 21:46
If you had gas blending, and the vis course how much more money would you save then? I get charged about $20 for an O2 cleaning, $10 for a fill, and $15 for a vis. If I bring multiple tanks by at the same time I get some slack but a single tank isn't cheap to do all of the above.

:)

If you dive many O2 clean tanks as many of us that do technical diving, it does not take long to pay off your course investment....plus you are learning and doing a quality job...no real substitute for the serious diver.

CompuDude
02-27-2008, 01:30
Of my 11 tanks, only one would need to be o2 clean (the Al.40 deco bottle). At some point I'm sure I'll be using stages, but I'm a ways off, and not really avidly seeking it.

At $15/vis, I need 23 inspections to break even on the $350 class. A full 2 years. A bit less if I do inspections for some friends, I suppose, but still, I'm not sold quite yet, especially since it's a lot easier to come up with $15-30 here and there than $350.

At $250, I'm looking for when the next class is, but $350 is substantial enough I have a list of other things I'd rather get first.

cummings66
02-27-2008, 09:11
For me it's like many things, I like to know it's done right and that's just because it seems more and more shops cut corners. However, once I get into technical diving I can see it being useful and convenient without having to wait on the shop to clean, vip, assemble, etc my tanks.

I even participate in my aircrafts annual inspection and do much of the work there too. We have the same issues in aviation.

rfb3
02-27-2008, 09:14
For me it's like many things, I like to know it's done right and that's just because it seems more and more shops cut corners. However, once I get into technical diving I can see it being useful and convenient without having to wait on the shop to clean, vip, assemble, etc my tanks.

I even participate in my aircrafts annual inspection and do much of the work there too. We have the same issues in aviation.

That's what I am thinking... I'd like to know how its done right, then participate in the inspection...

texdiveguy
02-27-2008, 09:32
Of my 11 tanks, only one would need to be o2 clean (the Al.40 deco bottle). At some point I'm sure I'll be using stages, but I'm a ways off, and not really avidly seeking it.

At $15/vis, I need 23 inspections to break even on the $350 class. A full 2 years. A bit less if I do inspections for some friends, I suppose, but still, I'm not sold quite yet, especially since it's a lot easier to come up with $15-30 here and there than $350.

At $250, I'm looking for when the next class is, but $350 is substantial enough I have a list of other things I'd rather get first.

I understand were you are coming from......in your indv. case maybe paying as you go is best for you.

I am just the opp. on my collection of tanks....I only have 3 in service that are not O2 clean....so for me being certed for O2/VIP just makes good $ sense.

Be safe and enjoy your diving....ONE of these days I will actually get to Calf. for sight seeing and diving.

No Misses
02-27-2008, 11:46
Just a little more food for thought.
I was adding up the costs for doing self VIPs.
Certification through PSI $300 (3yr recertification interval, $150 for recert)
Cylinder inspection light $40-$200 (make your own or buy premade)
Inspection mirrors $15-$40
VIP Stickers $35 (per/100)
Basic kit $61 (1 mirror, 1 crack light, picks, probes)
Transfill whip $140-$250 (need to put some gas into cylinder after VIP to avoid problems at fill station)
Dont forget that you need a fill after VIP $5

I did the math and here is how it works for me.
Start up costs $700
Recertification every 3 years $150
With 7 tanks, it would take me 27 years to break even on my own tanks.

If I charged my buddies and myself full boat ($15 VIP & EAN Fill) for the first 3 years I could would come out about $110 ahead. After that, I would save ~$30 per year on my own tanks (after subtracting $50 per year for recertification).

cummings66
02-27-2008, 12:31
Some of the guys I know who VIP their own tanks bring it to the LDS for a fill with the valve removed. They take a quick peek and he seals it up and they fill it, no problems. At least that's what I was told.

You get told a lot of things by divers you meet, some of it's true and some of it's stretched so who's to say...

jeepbrew
02-27-2008, 12:50
Just a little more food for thought.
I was adding up the costs for doing self VIPs.
Certification through PSI $300 (3yr recertification interval, $150 for recert)
Cylinder inspection light $40-$200 (make your own or buy premade)
Inspection mirrors $15-$40
VIP Stickers $35 (per/100)
Basic kit $61 (1 mirror, 1 crack light, picks, probes)
Transfill whip $140-$250 (need to put some gas into cylinder after VIP to avoid problems at fill station)
Dont forget that you need a fill after VIP $5

I did the math and here is how it works for me.
Start up costs $700
Recertification every 3 years $150
With 7 tanks, it would take me 27 years to break even on my own tanks.

If I charged my buddies and myself full boat ($15 VIP & EAN Fill) for the first 3 years I could would come out about $110 ahead. After that, I would save ~$30 per year on my own tanks (after subtracting $50 per year for recertification).

Nice breakdown. I currently have 11 tanks that need viz and 4 that need O2 cleaning. I am seriously considering getting certified to do it myself...

texdiveguy
02-27-2008, 13:31
Just a little more food for thought.
I was adding up the costs for doing self VIPs.
Certification through PSI $300 (3yr recertification interval, $150 for recert)
Cylinder inspection light $40-$200 (make your own or buy premade)
Inspection mirrors $15-$40
VIP Stickers $35 (per/100)
Basic kit $61 (1 mirror, 1 crack light, picks, probes)
Transfill whip $140-$250 (need to put some gas into cylinder after VIP to avoid problems at fill station)
Dont forget that you need a fill after VIP $5

I did the math and here is how it works for me.
Start up costs $700
Recertification every 3 years $150
With 7 tanks, it would take me 27 years to break even on my own tanks.

If I charged my buddies and myself full boat ($15 VIP & EAN Fill) for the first 3 years I could would come out about $110 ahead. After that, I would save ~$30 per year on my own tanks (after subtracting $50 per year for recertification).

Nice list...a bit skewed though for many of us that do VIP at home or through an LDS.....I don't have anywheres near $700 tied into my set-up including PSI training. Not saying you could not spend this kind of monies if you were so inclined but this is not the norm for the DIY certf. inspector. It does COST some start up monies but again for us that do have a number of tanks and enjoy taking care of our own gear its well worth it. Just like O2 cleaning my tanks.....its not rocket science and if you invest the time/$ in a quality blender course you are trained and certed for that also. For the recreational diver who has non O2 cleaned tanks and just a few persl. tanks....taking them in for annual VIPs makes ok sense!

No Misses
02-27-2008, 13:51
In for a penny - in for a pound.
I just signed up for the PSI VCI class. I'll let you know how it goes.

I've been on the fence on this one for a while. It was about time that I jumped one way or the other :-)

Dive-aholic
02-27-2008, 15:22
For me it's like many things, I like to know it's done right and that's just because it seems more and more shops cut corners. However, once I get into technical diving I can see it being useful and convenient without having to wait on the shop to clean, vip, assemble, etc my tanks.

I even participate in my aircrafts annual inspection and do much of the work there too. We have the same issues in aviation.

That's what I am thinking... I'd like to know how its done right, then participate in the inspection...

Many shops won't let you in the back room to participate. Then you'll see what they're not doing. I just VIP my own tanks. Aside from the fact that I have over 30 tanks, I did get to participate in a few VIPs before I did the training and I was appalled by what they didn't do!

texdiveguy
02-27-2008, 15:34
In for a penny - in for a pound.
I just signed up for the PSI VCI class. I'll let you know how it goes.

I've been on the fence on this one for a while. It was about time that I jumped one way or the other :-)

CONGRATS! If your course was as good as mine, I think you will enjoy the day...training and the freedom VIPing your own tanks allows. :)

rfb3
02-27-2008, 15:50
Many shops won't let you in the back room to participate. Then you'll see what they're not doing. I just VIP my own tanks.

Wow. Not sure I'd like being told that!

ScaredSilly
02-27-2008, 17:20
Let me give a more accurate break down. Recert is only if you have not done an update at the three interval. Normally you do an update which at DEMA was IRCC $25 two years ago. A whip is not needed you can get a hp hose that with 3/8 thread on both ends and use two regs. The basic kit come swith a mirror and a light that works quite for all of the inspection. Though recently I bought a light from Deep Sea Supply for $20 including an extra blub. I bought the pick end probes for an additional $13. Oh yeah and Bill gave me one of his hats to wear when I inspect cylinders. Ya, gotta have the hat to do a proper inspection :).

Certification through PSI $275 (I saw one course for $175).
VIP Stickers $35 (per/100)
Basic kit $61 (1 mirror, 1 crack light, picks, probes).
Pick end probes $13.

So you are all in for $400.

If you only have 3-4 cylinders it is probably not worth it. But if you like to know more it is and if you have more cylinders then it does pay for itself.

Oh yeah any shop that will not let in the back does not get my business. Two of my shops have their work benches off to the side but in the main part of their show floor. I can see everything.

PS if any of you are PSI certified inspectors I need to get some more O2 clean inspection stickers be happy to split an order of 100 or swap for a bunch std stickers.

texdiveguy
02-27-2008, 17:37
Let me give a more accurate break down. Recert is only if you have not done an update at the three interval. Normally you do an update which at DEMA was IRCC $25 two years ago. A whip is not needed you can get a hp hose that with 3/8 thread on both ends and use two regs. The basic kit come swith a mirror and a light that works quite for all of the inspection. Though recently I bought a light from Deep Sea Supply for $20 including an extra blub. I bought the pick end probes for an additional $13. Oh yeah and Bill gave me one of his hats to wear when I inspect cylinders. Ya, gotta have the hat to do a proper inspection :).

Certification through PSI $275 (I saw one course for $175).
VIP Stickers $35 (per/100)
Basic kit $61 (1 mirror, 1 crack light, picks, probes).
Pick end probes $13.

So you are all in for $400.

If you only have 3-4 cylinders it is probably not worth it. But if you like to know more it is and if you have more cylinders then it does pay for itself.

Oh yeah any shop that will not let in the back does not get my business. Two of my shops have their work benches off to the side but in the main part of their show floor. I can see everything.

My PSI course was $200.

I get VIP decals for free from buds I know around the country....we swap PSI green//red inspection decals as needed since most of this little group does just their own tanks and a few friends. Most of the tools can be DIY from your local Lowes/Ace Hardware/North Tool Supply/Home Depot. I might have $350 in my training/tools. DSAT blender course was another $150 and that was for both EAN and Trimix blending and O2 cleaning training.

cummings66
02-27-2008, 17:59
I'm close to signing up, one guy at the shop says they're setting a date and I just got a call this morning from the other guy who said there was room and I need to call them tomorrow to signup and get the books.

I'm hoping the dates work out, I'm signing up for 100% for now or later, it's going to happen. I think the date might be the May date on the page, or I hope it is. I want the books and stuff so I can go to work on them.

It's looking good for the PSI course now and I think price wise for me the startup costs will be cheaper anyhow. I have much of the required stuff and my startup costs have already been incurred for other reasons.

Crimediver
02-28-2008, 06:32
Seems to me when I took the PSI course I thought it was a one time shot and did not think I needed to be re-certified. Now I have been told my cert has expired. Anyway my department has set up a TDI course for us in a couple of weeks which I will be taking. I am curious to see how that compares with the PSI course, which was very good. Is PSI recertification thing something new they have started or has it always been a cetification that needed updating?

rfb3
02-28-2008, 08:27
My club just sent out the VIP/Hydro message... VIPs are $5, and VIP/Hydros are $20. Pretty good prices I think. How ofter are hydros required (I'm a new tank owner)?

cyclone3565
02-28-2008, 08:29
Hi TexDiveGuy,

I am in the Fort Worth Area. Where would I be able to take this course. I know of several of us that might be interested.

texdiveguy
02-28-2008, 08:43
Hi TexDiveGuy,

I am in the Fort Worth Area. Where would I be able to take this course. I know of several of us that might be interested.

Hi..... I took my course with Chris Mendoza as he was recommended, he did a great job, but his shop is in Killeen, Tx.. Scuba Diving - C&J Divers Scuba 2000 (http://www.cjdivers.com/)

I know that Patti at International Scuba in Dallas offers the PSI program http://www.internationalscuba.com/ I don't know who is the instructor over at that shop.

?? Tiger Shark Scuba in Arlington list an Inspector Course on the web page but I don't know if it is a PSI or TDI program or whom the teacher is ?? http://www.tigersharkscuba.com/

When I took the course I do remember having trouble finding an instructor/date that was workable....I was looking as just an individual so you poss. being a group might make it easier for you guys.

You can go direct to the PSI web site and look up instructors....not sure how up to date the info. is. https://www.psicylinders.com/index.html

Keep us posted.

No Misses
02-28-2008, 08:44
Here is the link to the PSI Course Schedule https://www.psicylinders.com/courseList.php

They have a bunch of classes scheduled in Tyler, TX. What is that, 80 miles from Dallas?

ScaredSilly
02-28-2008, 10:20
Is PSI recertification thing something new they have started or has it always been a cetification that needed updating?

I am not sure how long the updates have been in place. A while now. I am on my second one. The updates keep you well updated. The last was good cause it went over the new regs for 6351 cylinders.

cummings66
02-28-2008, 11:42
Good to know they do update the material. I've seen some classes for update training that was the same thing, time after time.

cyclone3565
02-28-2008, 16:18
Thanks for the great info. I will keep you posted. Thanks again

CompuDude
02-28-2008, 17:17
My club just sent out the VIP/Hydro message... VIPs are $5, and VIP/Hydros are $20. Pretty good prices I think. How ofter are hydros required (I'm a new tank owner)?

VIP's annually from the last one (check the sticker), Hydro's every 5 years. Look at the date last stamped on your tank (like 9/05), add five years (like (9/10, Sept. 2010) and that's when you next need a hydro.

jeepbrew
02-28-2008, 23:01
My club just sent out the VIP/Hydro message... VIPs are $5, and VIP/Hydros are $20. Pretty good prices I think. How ofter are hydros required (I'm a new tank owner)?

Nice prices. As noted before - Hydro every 5 years.

jeepbrew
03-08-2008, 14:38
FYI all. I am signed up to take a PSI course on Sat, Apr 5th. I am looking forward to learning something new and doing my own viz's this year.

texdiveguy
03-08-2008, 14:44
FYI all. I am signed up to take a PSI course on Sat, Apr 5th. I am looking forward to learning something new and doing my own viz's this year.

Congrats...were do you live? Hope you have a great class.

cummings66
03-08-2008, 15:32
Yeah, anywhere near me. They're still trying to decide on a date for the class and to be honest I want to take one sooner rather than later, as long as the driving distance isn't too great that is.

jeepbrew
03-08-2008, 22:55
I live in Birmingham, AL, but the class will be in Nashville, TN (I too am impatient and not willing to wait around for a local class). So Cummings, about a 7 hour drive for you... probably not what you are looking for, but its not out of the realm of what I would do. Hell, in two weeks I am driving 9 hours, spending the night in a hotel, diving two times, and then driving home! I know, I am sick...

Oh yeah, class is $225. If you would like more info let me know and I can get you in touch with the instructor.

jeepbrew
03-08-2008, 22:57
Man, I just re-read the very first post of this thread and realized that you are already considering driving 8 - 12 hours for a class. If that is the case, join us in Nashville!

cummings66
03-09-2008, 08:19
When is the class then, yes I may very well be interested in that class. I still can't get a date of the the shop for when they'll teach it.

No Misses
03-09-2008, 10:25
I just completed the PSI course in Ft. Lauderdale.:smiley20:

Now, I just need to get my kit together. There are a lot of cool gadgets. I think I'll limit myself to the basic tools for now (mirror, light, & probes).

Look for more intelligent posts from me in the future :smiley36:

jeepbrew
03-09-2008, 11:21
When is the class then, yes I may very well be interested in that class. I still can't get a date of the the shop for when they'll teach it.

The instructor's name is Barry Starkey. He is the owner of Scuba Supply in Nashville. SCUBA Supply of Tennessee (http://www.scubasupplytn.com/)

Barry can be reached @ 615-872-8743

Class meets on Sat, April 5th @ 8:30 AM CST. It will be approximately 8 hours long. Myself and one other diver from Bham, AL will be attending. We will probably head up Friday afternoon and stay in a nearby hotel. Not sure of any other plans at the moment.

FYI, on Sunday he is holding the PSI EDDY class, but Ronnie and I are not going to participate in that one. I don't plan on inspecting any of the older aluminum tanks. In fact, I really only dive steel tanks and then my AL pony.

cummings66
03-09-2008, 14:00
Thanks, I'll call him Monday morning. It's close enough I can drive it and to be honest I want to get this done. That weekend should work out better for me since it leaves the other dates free for the technical training I want to get done this year. Early is best for this course.

jeepbrew
03-09-2008, 16:17
Thanks, I'll call him Monday morning. It's close enough I can drive it and to be honest I want to get this done. That weekend should work out better for me since it leaves the other dates free for the technical training I want to get done this year. Early is best for this course.

Cool. Let me know what you decide. I need to get it done as well b/c I have 11 tanks due for a viz in May!

cummings66
03-10-2008, 12:34
I'm signed up for the course now so I'll see you there. Except for the diving part, read no place to dive, I think it'd going to be a good experience. If only Nashville had music I enjoy...

Now to locate a place to stay Friday night.

jeepbrew
03-10-2008, 16:04
I'm signed up for the course now so I'll see you there. Except for the diving part, read no place to dive, I think it'd going to be a good experience. If only Nashville had music I enjoy...

Now to locate a place to stay Friday night.

Martha's Quarry isn't too far from the dive shop. I just got off the phone with Fred Massie (owner of the quarry) and he said he is going to open it up to the public this weekend. The quarry will be open for diving the weekend we are going to be in Nashville and he will be open that Sat night for night diving as well. Just an option if you are wanting to go under water. Water temps in the range from 50 degrees at the surface to 54 degrees at the bottom. Let me know if you are interested.

Also, let me know where you decide to stay...

Web link: Martha's Quarry :: The Mid-South's Diving Destination (http://www.marthasquarry.com/)

cummings66
03-10-2008, 21:23
I read the webpage for the quarry, that sounds like a dive I can really enjoy. I love historic things, from the sound of it, some of the stuff was there before it flooded and others were added later.

That's what I like, sounds like a blast. I have a drysuit I dive most of the year, I'll bring some doubles with me for diving and it could be a pretty fun dive I suspect.

Plus, it'll give me another state I'll have dove in. Mostly I dive local, MO and AR. Be nice to add another one to the list.

matt_w
03-30-2008, 03:51
Of those of us that are doing annual inspections... do you use a custom--agency--LDS VIP decal..???

I use PSI decals myself.

:)

Custom, with my name, and cert number.

Just curious where you get yours printed? I have been wanting to do custom stickers but have been worried about durability.

Crimediver
03-30-2008, 04:43
I just completed the TDI inspector course last week and found it to be an OK school. I did not think it was as in-depth a class as my PSI course. I am also looking for a good place to obtain stickers. They wanted us to pay 3 buck each for a TDY sticker. WTF???
Anybody have a good source?

in_cavediver
03-30-2008, 08:54
Of those of us that are doing annual inspections... do you use a custom--agency--LDS VIP decal..???

I use PSI decals myself.

:)

Custom, with my name, and cert number.

Just curious where you get yours printed? I have been wanting to do custom stickers but have been worried about durability.

That would be from my color laser printer on vinyl labels. I figure if I make them and they don't last the full year, I can simply put another on. To date, I get around 2-3 years before replacement (I made my own 'oxygen 20' labels)

I bought a 100 sheet 6 label pack for around $55. It worked out to be around 10 cents a label. I sold around 50 sheets on scubaboard to others and used some for other purposes and now am left with only around 20 VIP labels.

I would only trust the laser type labels as its a fused toner particle rather than an applied ink.

No Misses
03-30-2008, 19:28
I just completed the TDI inspector course last week and found it to be an OK school. I did not think it was as in-depth a class as my PSI course. I am also looking for a good place to obtain stickers. They wanted us to pay 3 buck each for a TDY sticker. WTF???
Anybody have a good source?

Too bad you didn't go with PSI. They charge $35 for 100 EOI / VIP stickers.

cummings66
04-04-2008, 18:20
I'm here in Nashville for the course, checked in with them and got my materials for class tomorrow.

Got a lot of reading to do so I probably will be scarce on the forum tonight.

It was about an 8 hour drive, cruddy weather with rain the whole way. It's pouring down right now in fact.

Instructor seems to click with me so I think it'd be a great class in the morning.

texdiveguy
04-04-2008, 19:14
I just completed the TDI inspector course last week and found it to be an OK school. I did not think it was as in-depth a class as my PSI course. I am also looking for a good place to obtain stickers. They wanted us to pay 3 buck each for a TDY sticker. WTF???
Anybody have a good source?

Too bad you didn't go with PSI. They charge $35 for 100 EOI / VIP stickers.

If you don't require that many...PSI will sell as few as 1 sticker....so call them and order just what you need. I have no need for 100 of each kind so I usually order 12-15 of each.

cummings66
04-05-2008, 20:30
I finished my PSI cylinder inspection course, pretty interesting and he had some very nice example cylinders to play with. Some of them had 6 visual stickers on it, EOI, and at least 3 hydro's that never should have happened either. Proof that things which should not pass do pass every day.

Now I will need to get stickers and I'm wondering about the deal here. PSI would like your id/info on it, yet the sticker they sell is generic with nothing to identify the inspector.

If you use the PSI EOI how are you doing the identification thing? Marker? Another sticker?

fireflock
04-05-2008, 20:32
I've seen 2 different people around here (including one nationally known service place) who just write their number on the PSI sticker with a sharpie.

cummings66
04-05-2008, 20:33
I meant to add one thing, maybe worthy of another thread but I learned something I didn't know. A tank can pass hydro and fail vis.

Had some history of steel tanks with 2 and 3% O2 left in them after heavy rust, a good reason for always analyzing your air, even if it's just air. It was definitely a class I enjoyed.

texdiveguy
04-05-2008, 21:52
A tank can pass hydro and fail vis.



This is the stage at which many tanks fail an annual inspection.... after the stresses placed on it during the recent hydro testing....not totally uncommon....be extra watchful of those recent hydro tanks on that first visual.

No Misses
04-06-2008, 05:11
I finished my PSI cylinder inspection course, pretty interesting and he had some very nice example cylinders to play with. Some of them had 6 visual stickers on it, EOI, and at least 3 hydro's that never should have happened either. Proof that things which should not pass do pass every day.

Now I will need to get stickers and I'm wondering about the deal here. PSI would like your id/info on it, yet the sticker they sell is generic with nothing to identify the inspector.

If you use the PSI EOI how are you doing the identification thing? Marker? Another sticker?

I use an ultra fine point sharpie. You can order a roll of little stickers with your Insp# on them. It is $20 for a roll of 1000.

BTW, you will have to wait until you receive your Insp# before you can order EOI Stickers from PSI.



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Inspector Number Stickers

$20.00

Vinyl stickers created exclusively for PSI EOI stickers-
Identify yourself as the cylinder inspector (as is required) with these stickers sold at our cost (price includes shipping). Designed to fit into the space provided on the PSI EOI stickers (both Air and Nitrox). Self adhesive. (PSI orders from label maker once 12 individual orders are received). Roll of 1000.

cummings66
04-06-2008, 22:29
I saw the tape with the numbers on it, but to be honest they say they'll wait for so many orders first, I'm not sure how long that would be and thus the wondering about the other methods used.

At any rate, I'm waiting on the number so I can order a few things at the same time anyhow.

The course was interesting, but I've got to do a bit more research into some things that were said. Mostly concerning DOT authority or lack of it and related tidbits.

texdiveguy
04-06-2008, 22:36
I simply write my ID number and name on the sticker with a Sharpie.....holds up 'pretty' well....I have never had anyone question the stickers.

CompuDude
04-07-2008, 10:42
When a friend who was a PSI inspector inspected my tanks, he used a sharpie. 100 dives later, one sticker seems fine, another (oddly) seems to be wearing off a bit. So I touched it up again with ... another sharpie.

Works fine. Although the shops in SoCal are not sticker nazis, like some seem to be in other parts of the country.

cummings66
04-07-2008, 18:08
I think I'll use the Sharpie bit and see how it wears.

texdiveguy
04-07-2008, 18:11
I think I'll use the Sharpie bit and see how it wears.

It will do fine....I would not get out a rag and start rubbing on it hard as it will come off.....also placing the sticker on a portion of the tank that is not in contact with other gear constantly will also help.

cummings66
04-17-2008, 16:37
I got my inspection number and wall certificate today, I had my EOI stickers show up last week. They gave me a number I could order them by, and I have all the tools in place so I'm ready to go. Now to find the time. I want to get them cleaned up and inspected soon.

I've got to find a good source for Zinc paint. Z.R.C. Cold galvanizing compound specifically.

Sounder
04-17-2008, 17:25
Now you get to build a tank tumbler!

cummings66
04-17-2008, 18:27
I've got several plans off tds and intend to make one someday. I think it's fairly simple except for the gear reduction, unless I can find an old C band actuator. I'm thinking of using my old one, but I'd prefer a different brand since the others I've seen were more compact.

The motor is really the only challenge to it.

CompuDude
04-17-2008, 18:50
Cool! Let me know next time you come to CA. I have a number of tanks that could use inspection. LOL

cummings66
04-17-2008, 22:36
I've thought about whether or not I'd do some for friends and to be honest I think I would. I'm not in it to make money or anything like that and I wouldn't want to piss off my LDS too much, but for a few friends I might do it.

I know my LDS is worried I might do too many because after I took the course and finished it he started telling me about required insurance and other things. Basically trying to dissuade me from doing any cylinders other than my own. I figure he doesn't want to lose the $16 he charges for a vis from too many customers.

I'm going to build a drying rack first, then I will break down my doubles and get them ready to go. I'm going to model it on some commercial ones I saw, except I'll make it out of pvc.

I figure the 6 inch unions will support the cylinder, a hole in the bottom of it will allow a 2 inch pvc pipe to pass through it, and in the top of that will be a smaller pvc pipe that can pass into my cylinders. Then I set the cylinder down on it, and I can pass whatever kind of air I want into the cylinder to dry it, whether it be nitrogen or just hot air it should be pretty easy.

No Misses
04-18-2008, 09:42
instead of starting a new thread, I thought I would post this here.

When steel cylinders are hydro'ed, does the hydro facility dry them and fill with ~200 PSI to prevent flash rust?

I have plenty of time to find this answer. My steel cylinders are due for hydro in 2011.

texdiveguy
04-18-2008, 09:56
instead of starting a new thread, I thought I would post this here.

When steel cylinders are hydro'ed, does the hydro facility dry them and fill with ~200 PSI to prevent flash rust?

I have plenty of time to find this answer. My steel cylinders are due for hydro in 2011.

No.....least not mine.

No Misses
04-18-2008, 10:04
instead of starting a new thread, I thought I would post this here.

When steel cylinders are hydro'ed, does the hydro facility dry them and fill with ~200 PSI to prevent flash rust?

I have plenty of time to find this answer. My steel cylinders are due for hydro in 2011.

No.....least not mine.

So....Where your cylinders rusty when they came back from hydro?

cummings66
04-18-2008, 11:26
It depends on the hydro facility. I have one that I use that sends back a cylinder with hydro, vis sticker, and filled with air. No rust at all. Another one that a local shop uses sends back an empty cylinder with no EOI sticker and it sometimes has light rust.

So, I would suggest that it varies per the hydro facility.

skdvr
04-18-2008, 11:50
My LDS is also a hydro facility so they do the Hydro and Vis right there, and I believe that they have a rust inhibitor that they put in the tanks after the water is drained out...

Phil

texdiveguy
04-18-2008, 12:41
instead of starting a new thread, I thought I would post this here.

When steel cylinders are hydro'ed, does the hydro facility dry them and fill with ~200 PSI to prevent flash rust?

I have plenty of time to find this answer. My steel cylinders are due for hydro in 2011.

No.....least not mine.

So....Where your cylinders rusty when they came back from hydro?

Mine come back empty.....it depends on the facility that does them. I conduct my own VIP anyways so I want them empty....and a few I have to O2 clean prior to final assembly.

No Misses
04-18-2008, 12:46
Ok...So I need to build a tumbler between now and 2011. I should have enough time :-)

skdvr
04-18-2008, 14:22
Ok...So I need to build a tumbler between now and 2011. I should have enough time :-)

Just a few days:smiley20:

I will be interested to see in 2011 about a week before they are due I am sure you will be scrambling to put something together. I know that is about the way it usually works for me. I tell my self I have plenty of time and then the next thing I know the time is NOW.

Phil

cummings66
04-18-2008, 15:17
It's not a common thing to need a tumble on a steel tank every time. It really depends on how the interior is. Keep nice dry air in there with no water and you probably will find it as shiny as it was the day you did the inspection the first time.

texdiveguy
04-18-2008, 16:54
I persl. see know reason for a home tumbler for the average diver....less you are in the business of cleaning and inspecting for others on a regular basis. They generally collect lots of dust and take up space sitting there....I don't know when the last time I needed a tank tumbled was.

skdvr
04-18-2008, 17:09
I persl. see know reason for a home tumbler for the average diver....less you are in the business of cleaning and inspecting for others on a regular basis. They generally collect lots of dust and take up space sitting there.....

My basement is already full of things collecting dust, but if I can aquire enough parts and stuff I will probably put one together, just to have it.


I don't know when the last time I needed a tank tumbled was

What about for an O2 cleaning?

Phil

texdiveguy
04-18-2008, 18:03
I persl. see know reason for a home tumbler for the average diver....less you are in the business of cleaning and inspecting for others on a regular basis. They generally collect lots of dust and take up space sitting there.....

My basement is already full of things collecting dust, but if I can aquire enough parts and stuff I will probably put one together, just to have it.


I don't know when the last time I needed a tank tumbled was

What about for an O2 cleaning?

Phil

It all depends on what is found to be the condition of the cylinders interior, be it Al or St.. In order for them to pass an O2 cleanings final inspection to accepted standards...they do not have to be tumbled if that tumbling process it not needed. My steel cylinders stay in surprisingly great shape inside. And also remember an O2 cleaned cylinder does not need a cleaning each time it is opened for annual inspection, so long as you maintain its O2 clean standard.....that requires the inspector to insure his tools are clean and free of those contaminates that would compramise the O2 clean standard during the inspection process. Though I have seen cylinders that are just dreadful. The few times I have required IMO a tumbling...I use a LDS's.

Sounder
04-18-2008, 18:19
By the time I need to tumble my tanks next time, I'll have a kiddo old enough to pedal it!! Gear reduction my a$$!

skdvr
04-19-2008, 07:09
By the time I need to tumble my tanks next time, I'll have a kiddo old enough to pedal it!! Gear reduction my a$$!

I love it... I am sure that someone will build something like that :smiley20:

Phil

skdvr
04-19-2008, 07:11
I persl. see know reason for a home tumbler for the average diver....less you are in the business of cleaning and inspecting for others on a regular basis. They generally collect lots of dust and take up space sitting there.....

My basement is already full of things collecting dust, but if I can aquire enough parts and stuff I will probably put one together, just to have it.


I don't know when the last time I needed a tank tumbled was

What about for an O2 cleaning?

Phil

It all depends on what is found to be the condition of the cylinders interior, be it Al or St.. In order for them to pass an O2 cleanings final inspection to accepted standards...they do not have to be tumbled if that tumbling process it not needed. My steel cylinders stay in surprisingly great shape inside. And also remember an O2 cleaned cylinder does not need a cleaning each time it is opened for annual inspection, so long as you maintain its O2 clean standard.....that requires the inspector to insure his tools are clean and free of those contaminates that would compramise the O2 clean standard during the inspection process. Though I have seen cylinders that are just dreadful. The few times I have required IMO a tumbling...I use a LDS's.

Thanks for the info... I guess that is one thing we did not cover in the class because I just assumed that you did the full cleaning once a year, but I guess if it was never comprimised then there really is not a need. I can see an LDS doing it all over again because how do they know for sure that you never got fill with non-compatible air.

Thanks
Phil

texdiveguy
04-19-2008, 08:07
Thanks for the info... I guess that is one thing we did not cover in the class because I just assumed that you did the full cleaning once a year, but I guess if it was never comprimised then there really is not a need. I can see an LDS doing it all over again because how do they know for sure that you never got fill with non-compatible air.

Thanks
Phil

Phil.... some LDS may have that policy in place to re-clean each year.... you will find varing degrees of policies. It is ness. to O2 clean a valve/cylinder at 'any point' in the year if you were to think it was truly compromised. :)

in_cavediver
04-19-2008, 11:32
When I O2 clean, I always run a glass bead/simple green solution through the tanks. The last two tanks I did were spotless inside - even just back from hydro. They still got a light 'tumble' if you will. For this, I spend 5-10 minutes rolling the tanks on carpet and in different inclines. Its more a 'scrub' than a 'tumble' process.

I have the parts laying around for the tumbler, just haven't had the tank that really needs it. (of course the one tank I did have before I had the parts for a tumbler, I found easier to simply chuck it in a friends lathe - 16" swing, 72" bed)

As for frequency of cleanings, my O2 deco bottles (steel 45's) get it once every 5 years. I am anal about those tanks and they only ever see HP 02. They follow the CGA gas service criteria closer than the scuba industry standard. (I don't VIP them annually just because its good for good ole AL scuba tanks. They get it every 2-3 years based on use/exposures etc)

My other tanks - I have gotten away from o2 clean sets since most of our diving is premix these days. If I get a chance to do some deep trimix stuff, I'd clean them specially for that. To much of a PIA for the little benefit we'd see to keep them 02 clean.

texdiveguy
04-19-2008, 12:51
They still got a light 'tumble' if you will. For this, I spend 5-10 minutes rolling the tanks on carpet and in different inclines. Its more a 'scrub' than a 'tumble' process.



I am some what in the same thinking mode....my tumble if req. at all usually is just a few minutes of 'rolling'....good exercise while watching TV!

Sounder
04-21-2008, 16:18
They still got a light 'tumble' if you will. For this, I spend 5-10 minutes rolling the tanks on carpet and in different inclines. Its more a 'scrub' than a 'tumble' process.



I am some what in the same thinking mode....my tumble if req. at all usually is just a few minutes of 'rolling'....good exercise while watching TV!

I'm going to make a bicycle-driven one... when the kids need something to do, daddy's tanks need a tumble!

CompuDude
04-26-2008, 15:16
So it looks like PSI is going to be doing some courses near me at the Scuba Show in June. Perhaps I'll take their class then, since the cost is a lot more reasonable, and it's a lot closer. And I'll be there anyway.

Here's hoping it works out! I have a couple of tanks that need vis already, perhaps I can avoid using them until I can get my cert...

texdiveguy
04-26-2008, 18:20
So it looks like PSI is going to be doing some courses near me at the Scuba Show in June. Perhaps I'll take their class then, since the cost is a lot more reasonable, and it's a lot closer. And I'll be there anyway.

Here's hoping it works out! I have a couple of tanks that need vis already, perhaps I can avoid using them until I can get my cert...

There you go!! :)

cummings66
04-26-2008, 22:31
I think it's a worthwhile course, and my LDS looks at me differently now and has actually asked me for my opinion where before they wouldn't have listened.

I think things work out sometimes, sounds like that's the case for you.

CompuDude
04-27-2008, 02:02
I think it's a worthwhile course, and my LDS looks at me differently now and has actually asked me for my opinion where before they wouldn't have listened.

I think things work out sometimes, sounds like that's the case for you.

If my LDS didn't listen to my opinion, they probably wouldn't want to hire me as a DM. ;)

But I'd imagine I'll be a little more useful around the shop now. And if I vis some friends tanks, between that and my own, I should be able to pay off the class pretty quickly.

cummings66
04-27-2008, 10:11
My dive shop seemed to always check my opinions out. For example when I ordered my doubles wing from DSS he called them up and asked Tobin if I was getting the right thing. He didn't want to sell me something I couldn't use, so he checked out what I asked for before he'd order it. He's done the same on other things as well, and I've never been wrong about what I wanted for the mission.

This was the first time he asked my opinion, for me I was somewhat flattered he would do that considering the double checking he's done on the stuff I wanted to buy.

I suppose he trusts me though because a year ago he asked me to be a DM for them.