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emcbride81
02-21-2008, 11:37
...on a guided dive, when the guide is not breathing EAN?

The reason I asked this is, other than to increase safety/reduce fatigue, it seems like there would be no reason to. My buddy and I got our EAN certifications back in November, and we wanted to use them in Playa last month. We paid $13 extra per tank, but since the dive guide wasn't using it, we had to follow air tables.

cummings66
02-21-2008, 11:46
Yes, I typically dive Nitrox all Summer long and rarely have buddies use it. No reason other than the fact that I can.

skdvr
02-21-2008, 12:34
Nothing wrong with diving air tables when diving EAN. Just reduces your nitrogen load as compared to air dives.

Phil

texdiveguy
02-21-2008, 12:39
I rarely dive nitrox except as a deco gas(s). There are a few sites/situations were I will use it as a back gas, but mainly use air or TMx.

terrillja
02-21-2008, 12:44
I'm planning on diving EANx when I go to FL since we will be doing multiple dives each day, while there may be one guide for the AM and another for the PM, in which case they could dive air.

CompuDude
02-21-2008, 12:44
...on a guided dive, when the guide is not breathing EAN?

The reason I asked this is, other than to increase safety/reduce fatigue, it seems like there would be no reason to. My buddy and I got our EAN certifications back in November, and we wanted to use them in Playa last month. We paid $13 extra per tank, but since the dive guide wasn't using it, we had to follow air tables.

As you said, it increases safety and could reduce fatigue (jury is out on that one). There are two reasons right there.

You won't gain any time benefit, however, unless your guide feels like putting himself in jeopardy, so it's up to you if the extra cost is worth it. Personally, if I was doing a lot of repetitive diving, the reduced Nitrogen loading and resultant extra safety might make it worthwhile for my peace of mind. If I was NOT doing a lot of repetitive diving, or pushing the tables in any way, I'd save the money for some fruity drinks and tips for the cute bartenders.

I recently went on a vacation in Thailand, and hired a private guide. Nitrox was an option, but when I found the dives weren't especially deep, and the boat limits dive times to 60 minutes, I passed on it. I probably would have paid to fill my tank and my guides, had the times not been limited, but that wasn't the case.

scubasamurai
02-21-2008, 13:09
yep i agree on that one, i be doing a live aboard and i will be doing ean on those, just for the fact of repetitive dives i will be doing and reducing the nitrogen load would help with my safety limits and get the most dives possible without skipping a day ( some people suggest that, but why pay to dive when your not)

SkuaSeptember
02-21-2008, 13:21
Statistically there is no increase in safety and any reduction in fatigue is anecdotal. As others have mentioned, the benefit is if you are doing repetitive dives and especially multiple days of diving.
On the other hand, if it gives you a little more peace of mind and increases your comfort level it is $13 well spent.

Lone Frogman
02-21-2008, 13:28
Nothing wrong with diving air tables when diving EAN. Just reduces your nitrogen load as compared to air dives.

Phil

Don't do it. Use your EAN tables.

Griff
02-21-2008, 13:52
Nothing wrong with diving air tables when diving EAN. Just reduces your nitrogen load as compared to air dives.

Phil

Don't do it. Use your EAN tables.

+1, especially if the dives are deep. Air tables doen't really consider CNS Ox Tox

Griff
02-21-2008, 13:52
Nothing wrong with diving air tables when diving EAN. Just reduces your nitrogen load as compared to air dives.

Phil

Don't do it. Use your EAN tables.

+1, especially if the dives are deep. Air tables doen't really consider CNS Ox Tox and the other factors you must consider when using Nitrox.

in_cavediver
02-21-2008, 17:00
Nothing wrong with diving air tables when diving EAN. Just reduces your nitrogen load as compared to air dives.

Phil

Don't do it. Use your EAN tables.

+1, especially if the dives are deep. Air tables doen't really consider CNS Ox Tox and the other factors you must consider when using Nitrox.

OR you could use air tables and track you 02 the way your taught. Tables give NDL only, you have to determine OTL differently. Each agency has its own way but it needs done.

Really, it doesn't make that much difference NDL wise if you use EAN or Air if your buddies are using air tables. Their tables will almost assuredly serve as the time limit for your dives. You only need to track o2 clock and MOD's (which place some restrictions on your dives). Also, with rec profiles, its VERY difficult to get in an o2 tox situation but you need to track it to be sure.

For the record, I use Nitrox and I believe it can reduce fatigue over repetitive dives, especially on multi-day trips. The basis is less nitrogen uptake, less nitrogen off-gassing and therefore less decompression stress. This is of course compared to similar dives on air. If you exceed the air limits, well you likely incurring the same deco stresses as well so you'll not see this benefit.

One last benefit that is almost never mentioned. If you are one of the statistical outliers who is more pre-disposed to DCS, using nitrox on air table can give a measured increase in safety. Its just so small for the 'normal' diving population to be insignificant.

skdvr
02-22-2008, 07:09
OR you could use air tables and track you 02 the way your taught. Tables give NDL only, you have to determine OTL differently. Each agency has its own way but it needs done.


That is what I meant. I guess I should have said that. Anyone who is certified to use EAN I am sure would know to track their O2 levels, because that is the obvious threat when diving EAN, but I should have clarified...

Phil

CompuDude
02-22-2008, 12:49
As long as you're tracking your OTLs and minding your MODs, there's nothing whatsoever bad about diving air tables on Nitrox.

In fact, one assumes that you would have to do that anyway, since we're talking about tables and not computers.

mm_dm
02-22-2008, 15:01
Most DM's get their tanks "comped" by the shop or boat, but a lot of the time only for air, not Nitrox, so that's money out of his/her pocket. You could spring for a tank of the good stuff for them if they're agreeable to that.

plot
02-22-2008, 18:30
Doesnt sound like you're getting anywhere near the MOD, otherwise your NDL's would be very short and if your guide is on air, they'd be a whole lot shorter and the dive would altogethor suck... watch your o2 clock and air tables are just fine.

repetative dives is where the nitrox comes in handy, if you're doing night dives with a different guide then using nitrox is a big plus... and well, i'd dive it anyways just to be on the safe side.

spring for a computer capable of nitrox.

for 100' or so dives i'd definetely go nitrox... and like ean28 or something if i wanted to max out rec limits of 130'

cummings66
02-22-2008, 22:29
Nitrox is nice, but it also comes with additional work and responsibility. If you keep track of it all then dive it regardless, if you don't care to do that then dive air.

For me most of the time Nitrox is usable, but since I'm diving deeper at the moment, 100' and deeper I don't usually use Nitrox. Too close to air to pay for it, and since you get just as narc'd it's not good for that either.

I dive it mainly because I can, and because in the end it's a stepping stone to greater things which I want to happen in 2009 or 2010, depends on when I get the stuff finished this year.

RoyN
02-22-2008, 22:34
I alway use nitrox.

texdiveguy
02-22-2008, 22:52
I alway use nitrox.

I know very few divers that use nitrox for all there recreational diving....as a matter of fact I really don't know anyone at the present (a few dive it as required for certain profiles/settings)....why do you choose this gas as the only gas you dive?

RoyN
02-22-2008, 22:59
I know very few divers that use nitrox for all there recreational diving....as a matter of fact I really don't know anyone at the present (a few dive it as required for certain profiles/settings)....why do you choose this gas as the only gas you dive?

I want to stay a little longer on the bottom! ;)

texdiveguy
02-22-2008, 23:02
I know very few divers that use nitrox for all there recreational diving....as a matter of fact I really don't know anyone at the present (a few dive it as required for certain profiles/settings)....why do you choose this gas as the only gas you dive?

I want to stay a little longer on the bottom! ;)

Well OK.... thats a fair answer.

dallasdivergirl
02-22-2008, 23:03
when I travel & I am doing multi day multi dive trips, I will be using nitrox no matter what my dive buddy or guide will be diving.

CSSP can't quite justify the cost.

texdiveguy
02-22-2008, 23:06
when I travel & I am doing multi day multi dive trips, I will be using nitrox no matter what my dive buddy or guide will be diving.

CSSP can't quite justify the cost.

Oh come now....you know that CSSP is the ideal situation for bottles of nitrox and other voodoo gas.

CompuDude
02-23-2008, 00:57
I alway use nitrox.

Ignoring the possibility that you're making jokes about 21% Nitrox, doesn't your mom own your LDS? In that case, I suspect your Nitrox is free... and that's cheating! :smiley2:

If I had access to a reasonably-priced flat rate Nitrox source, I'd probably dive it all the time, too. But $8-10/tank extra for a local beach dive? Not worth it ... for me.

On boats that offer it, I almost always take it.

Iceman
02-23-2008, 13:01
To get back on point; yep I dive EAN routinely when the DG is diving air. Often their rules on using a gas other than air are governed by local workers safety laws and by their insurance company.

Not routine, but not unknown either for the DG to run out of bottom time and leave us to finish our dive on our own. That isn't a problem since in every operation I dive with we, the divers, are responsible for our own profiles. The DG is just that, a guide.

in_cavediver
02-23-2008, 13:30
I alway use nitrox.

Ignoring the possibility that you're making jokes about 21% Nitrox, doesn't your mom own your LDS? In that case, I suspect your Nitrox is free... and that's cheating! :smiley2:

If I had access to a reasonably-priced flat rate Nitrox source, I'd probably dive it all the time, too. But $8-10/tank extra for a local beach dive? Not worth it ... for me.

On boats that offer it, I almost always take it.

If you ever find yourself in Pompano Beach needing gas - Fill Express charges the same for nitrox 32 as air, and by the cubic foot to boot.

(granted, most don't but hey - here's a source)

CompuDude
02-23-2008, 14:46
I alway use nitrox.

Ignoring the possibility that you're making jokes about 21% Nitrox, doesn't your mom own your LDS? In that case, I suspect your Nitrox is free... and that's cheating! :smiley2:

If I had access to a reasonably-priced flat rate Nitrox source, I'd probably dive it all the time, too. But $8-10/tank extra for a local beach dive? Not worth it ... for me.

On boats that offer it, I almost always take it.

If you ever find yourself in Pompano Beach needing gas - Fill Express charges the same for nitrox 32 as air, and by the cubic foot to boot.

(granted, most don't but hey - here's a source)

That's true. Neat policy... unless you just want to dive air to make a cheap shore dive! When I pay for air (rare), fill cards from my LDS cost $20 for 10 air fills. At $2/fill, it's hard to justify Nitrox, whether I can technically afford it or not, unless there is a real (and specific) benefit to using it on a specific dive. Paying Nitrox prices for a simple air fill would drive me nuts. Although IIRC, they charge by the cf, which makes it a little more palatable. Still, I have a habit of sucking my tanks pretty low on shore dives (800 psi is 500 psi too much, IMO, when you're in 20' of water and a very short distance from shore!), so again, for most of my diving (NOT rule of thirds territory), it's just a different situation here.

There is an LDS in San Diego that has an "all you can eat" Nitrox "club" for $x per month. If I was in that situation, I would probably go ahead and dive Nitrox all the time. But most shore dive sites around here have plenty to see at many different levels, so it's easy enough to drift back a little shallower when the NDLs for air rear up. Most local boats I dive on offer Nitrox (generally about $20-25/day) , and I use it there, since the topography doesn't lend itself to simply going a bit shallower quite as well.

RoyN
02-23-2008, 21:59
Ignoring the possibility that you're making jokes about 21% Nitrox, doesn't your mom own your LDS? In that case, I suspect your Nitrox is free... and that's cheating! :smiley2:

If I had access to a reasonably-priced flat rate Nitrox source, I'd probably dive it all the time, too. But $8-10/tank extra for a local beach dive? Not worth it ... for me.

On boats that offer it, I almost always take it.

I have to pay like every other customer! :smiley19: But they're still my parents so I still love them! :smiley31:

But the fills is $9 with no extra charge or anything. :smiley20:

Charles R
02-23-2008, 23:26
Unless EAN is not available I always dive it. Just the safety facor

doczerothree
02-25-2008, 16:42
It may have been that as a guide he is responsible for you. If something happened and you lost track of depth or something worst he can get you within the limits of his gas.

rfb3
02-25-2008, 16:46
Personally, if I was doing a lot of repetitive diving, the reduced Nitrogen loading and resultant extra safety might make it worthwhile for my peace of mind. If I was NOT doing a lot of repetitive diving, or pushing the tables in any way, I'd save the money for some fruity drinks and tips for the cute bartenders.


Very well said! :)

I am one that thinks I am less tired after diving Nitrox... Maybe its all in my head.?.?.?

texdiveguy
02-25-2008, 16:58
Personally, if I was doing a lot of repetitive diving, the reduced Nitrogen loading and resultant extra safety might make it worthwhile for my peace of mind. If I was NOT doing a lot of repetitive diving, or pushing the tables in any way, I'd save the money for some fruity drinks and tips for the cute bartenders.


Very well said! :)

I am one that thinks I am less tired after diving Nitrox... Maybe its all in my head.?.?.?

Ever dive at ESP at Texoma?

rfb3
02-25-2008, 17:12
Yes, did that year before last for my DM cert. Had to map out the topo... Viz was better than I thought it would be (~6 at ~10 deep)... Followed the bottom to the boat after we got done. No viz at 60'! Had to use my lite to see my gauges.

texdiveguy
02-25-2008, 17:25
Yes, did that year before last for my DM cert. Had to map out the topo... Viz was better than I thought it would be (~6 at ~10 deep)... Followed the bottom to the boat after we got done. No viz at 60'! Had to use my lite to see my gauges.

I have only had the pleasure once last fall. It was ok as it goes.

So what do you Captain?

rfb3
02-26-2008, 08:28
I just got certified last year and the lake was flooded, so I have not done it for $ yet. I have my 50GT, Inland licence. We saved some money on the bare boat chater we just got back from... Did not have to hire a captain.

jeepbrew
03-03-2008, 22:56
I am one that thinks I am less tired after diving Nitrox... Maybe its all in my head.?.?.?

It seems that you might be the only one. I can't tell a difference...

emcbride81
03-04-2008, 07:55
Personally, if I was doing a lot of repetitive diving, the reduced Nitrogen loading and resultant extra safety might make it worthwhile for my peace of mind. If I was NOT doing a lot of repetitive diving, or pushing the tables in any way, I'd save the money for some fruity drinks and tips for the cute bartenders.


Very well said! :)

I am one that thinks I am less tired after diving Nitrox... Maybe its all in my head.?.?.?

I did not feel tired after my deep dives in PDC...I normally have...but since that was only my first time diving EAN I am not going to say quite yet! :)