HOG harness not quite right for me....

[mksmith713]

OK folks, I got this thing all put together, strapped on an AL80 and tried it all on and it was an absolute MFer getting it off.
Not exactly a picnic getting on either but really tough getting off.
My shoulder are just too wide to make an easy escape from this rig.
Until now I've used a rear inflate with adjustable shoulder sraps that I have to loosen fully, then after I get it over my shoulders, I cinch the shoulder straps.
It look like I'll be fashioning a harness similar to OMS or Zeagle's comfort style harness.
Sorry guys...I know you DIR folks are cringing right about now..

[MSilvia]

Originally Posted by mksmith713

OK folks, I got this thing all put together, strapped on an AL80 and tried it all on and it was an absolute MFer getting it off.

How did you try to take it off? I don't think you'll find anyone who doesn't think it can be tricky to get out of them unless you're doing the things that make it easy. If you are having to try to struggle out of it, there's a problem. Maybe your harness is too tight, or your wing is fully inflated, or it could be something a few easy technique tips would fix. Of course, you should feel free to do whatever you want, and another type of harness will definately work for you if you don't care to mess around with tweaking a hog harness.

For what it's worth though, with a single steel tank and STA on my hog rigged steel backplate, I can put one arm in and throw it on like a coat. Since I'm a broad shouldered 250# guy myself, I'm having trouble seeing where your large size would be an issue unless you're built like a comic book villain.

[BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)]

Screw DIR- do what you want to do. you might try adding a buckle to one of the straps. I personally don't, but I know several people who do.

FWIW, if you read the IANTD standards, if you cannot remove the harness from a simulated unconscious diver in less than 1 minute then you must add a buckle to the harness. But if you do add a buckle, you need to demonstrated that you can swim with the harness unbuckled, i.e. simulated buckle failure.

[MSilvia]

Originally Posted by mksmith713

Sorry guys...I know you DIR folks are cringing right about now..

Originally Posted by BouzoukiJoe

Screw DIR.

Indeed. If you aren't a DIR diver yourself, DIR practices don't have any more to do with you than commercial, military, or public safety diver procedures. Especially given that you didn't post this in a DIR forum, advice on how to be DIR would be a bit out of place, although a DIR diver would certainly be likely to have pointers if you asked.

Originally Posted by BouzoukiJoe

if you cannot remove the harness from a simulated unconscious diver in less than 1 minute

Personally, I probably wouldn't even try "removing it". If I'm rescuing someone and need to get their harness free, I'm going straight for my shears. IMHO if it's a an unconscious diver rescue, you probably don't have time to mess around with chicken winging anyone out of a harness.

[awap]

When I first went to a hog harness, I also found donning difficult and doffing very difficult. Without cutting the harness, I first added a weight belt fastener to one of the shoulder straps. It worked OK but I was afraid it would accidentally let go. So I replaced it with a QD, again without cutting the harness. So after a couple weeks of playing with this, I discovered that with PRACTICE and TECHNIQUE, the release was unnecessary. To doff my rig on land, I reach back with my right hand and lift the tank up and pull the bottom out to my right. This takes all the weight off my left shoulder strap and, with a little leaning and shaking, it slides off my left shoulder. I chicken wing my left arm out of the strap and reach over with my left hand and grab the right shoulder strap. With my right hand supporting the bottom of the tank and my left hand working the right strap, I rotate it off my shoulder and set it down.

In the water. I doff my rig by airing up the wing and dropping out the bottom of it, grabbing the valve as I go by.

In an emergency, the harness gets cut.

I'm old, not very flexible, 225, and not DIR (but I do appreciate and use many of their ideas)..

[Splitlip]

Originally Posted by awap

When I first went to a hog harness, I also found donning difficult and doffing very difficult. Without cutting the harness, I first added a weight belt fastener to one of the shoulder straps. It worked OK but I was afraid it would accidentally let go. So I replaced it with a QD, again without cutting the harness. So after a couple weeks of playing with this, I discovered that with PRACTICE and TECHNIQUE, the release was unnecessary. To doff my rig on land, I reach back with my right hand and lift the tank up and pull the bottom out to my right. This takes all the weight off my left shoulder strap and, with a little leaning and shaking, it slides off my left shoulder. I chicken wing my left arm out of the strap and reach over with my left hand and grab the right shoulder strap. With my right hand supporting the bottom of the tank and my left hand working the right strap, I rotate it off my shoulder and set it down.

In the water. I doff my rig by airing up the wing and dropping out the bottom of it, grabbing the valve as I go by.

In an emergency, the harness gets cut.

I'm old, not very flexible, 225, and not DIR (but I do appreciate and use many of their ideas)..

What AWAP said. If diving off a cattle boat, just sit and let the bench or rack pick up the bottom of the cylinder. Shore dive, a table or tail gate works.

[Rainer]

Why would you remove a harness in an emergency by any other means than cutting it? We even carry cutting tools ON the harness for crying out loud.

As for the harness, you seem to have given it a really fair shot. What, twenty dives or so? And you had divers with actual experience using one show you some tricks? Given all that, I can definitely see how you're looking for a change. It's not like you tried it on in your living room and couldn't figure it out...

[BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)]

Originally Posted by Rainer

Why would you remove a harness in an emergency by any other means than cutting it? We even carry cutting tools ON the harness for crying out loud.

As for the harness, you seem to have given it a really fair shot. What, twenty dives or so? And you had divers with actual experience using one show you some tricks? Given all that, I can definitely see how you're looking for a change. It's not like you tried it on in your living room and couldn't figure it out...

I'm not passing judgement- just passing on the info from the standards. In an emergency I would cut it. I do agree that if you add a buckle, learning how to deal with a buckle failure is a good idea.

There is some inconvenience doffing as compared to a transpac/transplate (in-water advantages for for Hog make it worth it to me). Compared to getting out of my drysuit, getting out of the Hog is a breeze.

[mksmith713]

Originally Posted by BouzoukiJoe

FWIW, if you read the IANTD standards, if you cannot remove the harness from a simulated unconscious diver in less than 1 minute then you must add a buckle to the harness. But if you do add a buckle, you need to demonstrated that you can swim with the harness unbuckled, i.e. simulated buckle failure.

IANTD standards for what?
Cave? Wreck?

[BSea]

Before going to a comfort harness, you might try a Dive Rite Deluxe harness. Kind of in between a hog & comfort harness. If you use the chest strap, you can take all the slack out, and essentially have the best of both worlds. You have a harness without adjustment straps floating around with the possible exception of the chest strap, but that's easy to secure by just tucking in. And it's really easy to get in & out of. The slack created by undoing the chest strap makes it as easy as getting in and out of a jacket BC.

I actually made my own version using DSS hardware, and blue webbing. And I'm about to make another with a few tweeks.

Here's my current harness.