Titanium products

[picxie]

Are these really warmer than straight neoprene stuff?

[the gooch]

Not following you, Titanium as in the metal or Titanium as being referred to someones line of apparel, since you mention neoprene.

[ScubaToys Larry]

Oh, I think he's talking about the wetsuits that are titanium lined. Ok... Here's the deal. The sales pitch is that the titanium acts as a layer of aluminum foil that reflects the heat back to your body and keeps you warmer. Now.. the truth??

First off, if you wrap your hand in aluminum foil and stick it in cold water, it only takes a few seconds for the water to cool the metal... and then your hand. With just a little titanium spread throughout the suit - could it be better?? Perhaps, but I've yet to see any scientific evidence from any source (including the vendors).

When it comes down to it, neoprene does not keep you warm either. It's the air bubbles in the neoprene. That is why at depth, as a suit compresses, it will not keep you as warm. The suit gets thinner. And in time, suits will compress and a suit you've had for 5 years will probably not keep you as warm as a new one. (Joe also complains the one he got 5 years ago shrunk alot in the closet.. [img]smileys/smiley36.gif[/img])

So I know we sell some with titanium, and some without, and I would not make my buying decision on that. I'd go with one that fits good, has good stitching, high quality neoprene compresses less than the cheap stuff... So figure out your budget, and buy the suit that fits the best in that range.

I am very impressed with the warmth of the Pinnacle suits, and Bare makes a great product line as well. For comfort, it's impossible to beat the hyperstretch, but any suit that stretches that much will sacrifice a little warmth. That only makes sense... when you stretch it, the material has to get thinner. (physics)

So are you after max warmth? The most comfortable to get on and off? Diving in 60 or 80 degree water?

Use these thoughts and find the one that fits your budget and works for the type of diving you want to do. And obviously, we'd be more than happy to answer any personal questions you have in person, on the phone, or on this board to help you find the suit you are looking for.

[picxie]

Originally Posted by ScubaToys Larry

Oh, I think he's talking about the wetsuits that are titanium lined. Ok... Here's the deal. The sales pitch is that the titanium acts as a layer of aluminum foil that reflects the heat back to your body and keeps you warmer. Now.. the truth??

First off, if you wrap your hand in aluminum foil and stick it in cold water, it only takes a few seconds for the water to cool the metal... and then your hand. With just a little titanium spread throughout the suit - could it be better?? Perhaps, but I've yet to see any scientific evidence from any source (including the vendors).

When it comes down to it, neoprene does not keep you warm either. It's the air bubbles in the neoprene. That is why at depth, as a suit compresses, it will not keep you as warm. The suit gets thinner. And in time, suits will compress and a suit you've had for 5 years will probably not keep you as warm as a new one. (Joe also complains the one he got 5 years ago shrunk alot in the closet.. [img]smileys/smiley36.gif[/img])

So I know we sell some with titanium, and some without, and I would not make my buying decision on that. I'd go with one that fits good, has good stitching, high quality neoprene compresses less than the cheap stuff... So figure out your budget, and buy the suit that fits the best in that range.

I am very impressed with the warmth of the Pinnacle suits, and Bare makes a great product line as well. For comfort, it's impossible to beat the hyperstretch, but any suit that stretches that much will sacrifice a little warmth. That only makes sense... when you stretch it, the material has to get thinner. (physics)

So are you after max warmth? The most comfortable to get on and off? Diving in 60 or 80 degree water?

Use these thoughts and find the one that fits your budget and works for the type of diving you want to do. And obviously, we'd be more than happy to answer any personal questions you have in person, on the phone, or on this board to help you find the suit you are looking for.

<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Very helpful post, thankyou! Although I am a she not a he!!</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Speaking of Pinnacle suits, I quite like the Pinnacle Elite Merino lined suits. I've heard all the 'good' things about Merino and the corresponding opinions that Merino is just a gimmick. However I have heard positive comments from people who wear them. So gimmick or not, if the suit itself is good and keeps me warmer, for whatever reason, I'll be happy.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Any opinions on that particular suit?</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I'd quite like something that provides max warmth and can easily be gotten in and out of ... however if I can't have both, warmth is more important. I'll dive with a 7mm, 2 piece wetsuit in 18C (64F) and be comfortable. However 16-17C (61/63F) I get cold. I'd quite like to be able to dive in at least 15C (59F) given that it is winter over here now and I've pretty much stopped diving due to the cold.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I've just purchased a pinnacle torso heater from you guys and I was hoping that would extend my tolerance to the cold. That turned up last week however I've had to send it back for another size as I got one too big. Given the international shipping times I won't have the replacement for a few weeks (which is fine) so I won't get to test it for a wee while.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I do want to upgrade the wetsuit in a couple of months as the one I have is getting on a bit. I don't want to go dry. I am considering semi-dry though. I've also read good things about the Mares Isotherm howeverthey don't stock themlocally and I really feel that for this sort of purchase I need to go and try one on somewhere. </DIV>

[picxie]

I was also thinking of boots and gloves too. I think I'm currently using 5mm for each. I know you can get titanium ones of these, and wondered if they were better as well.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I'vehave just bought these ... </DIV>
<DIV>http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detai...mTitaniumGlove</DIV>
<DIV>although they've also just been returned for a smaller size. I had heard that 3mm with titanium is the same as 5mm of just neoprene, so I'd hoped I'd be able to use these and have the same warmth with more movement. The glove was very nice, just too big unfortunately!</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I don't want to go too thick with the gloves as then I won't be able to use my fingers!! Although I don't care with my feet - the thicker the better if it keeps me warmer! I've seen titanium socks though, and thought I'd get a pair to wear with my booties. </DIV>

[tc_rain]

I have a bare arctic 7mm that does a great job keeping me warm. I have used it in 47* water for 40 mins with no problem. The only thing that was bad was getting out of the water. Don't know if I can account the warmth to the suit or the great fit.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Back to whatLarry was saying about the neoprene, if it is the air in the cell that is the insulating component, what is the deal with the crushed neoprene drysuits? Do they have poor insulating qualitys?</DIV>

[Judestudio]

Originally Posted by picxie

...I don't want to go dry. I am considering semi-dry though.

I have the Pinnacle Polar semi-dry [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img] It has a merino lining. I've tried on another one that doesn't have the merino (can't remember the model) which only has a titanium lining, it was a pain to put on, the merino lining made donning and doffing way easier! No kidding. I'm terrified of the cold, so I opted for the "warmest" possible wetsuit available (...I'm also not diving dry). The only thing with semi-dry is they either fit or they don't. I've got some space on the upper arms and shoulder area. I've also bought a torso heater from ST a while back, that should "fill up" the space in the suit, and heat me up even more....you see, I really don't like to be cold.

PS. You know Pinnacle was invented in NZ right? The merino lining was developed with NZ sheep's wool [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img]

[picxie]

Originally Posted by Judestudio

I have the Pinnacle Polar semi-dry [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img] It has a merino lining. I've tried on another one that doesn't have the merino (can't remember the model) which only has a titanium lining, it was a pain to put on, the merino lining made donning and doffing way easier! No kidding. I'm terrified of the cold, so I opted for the "warmest" possible wetsuit available (...I'm also not diving dry). The only thing with semi-dry is they either fit or they don't. I've got some space on the upper arms and shoulder area. I've also bought a torso heater from ST a while back, that should "fill up" the space in the suit, and heat me up even more....you see, I really don't like to be cold.

<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I saw those ones (Pinnacle Polar) but I don't wear hoods (which I realise is half my problem in dealing with the cold). I've tried, I have, I just really don't like them. I thought if the suit comes with a connected hood the semidry might not work as well when I'm not wearing it, plus it's surplus stuff just hanging around. The Mares Isotherm doesn't come with a connected hood (so I believe). </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I did buy one of the beanies from ST, hoping that might help. It's better than nothing. I would have preferred a thicker one but they only had one. I am fine in 18C + waters, just anything under and I get cold. </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>My LDS reckon the Pinnacle Elite will do me fine all year round. I don't know if that is just a sales pitch though.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>

Originally Posted by Judestudio

PS. You know Pinnacle was invented in NZ right? The merino lining was developed with NZ sheep's wool

</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I thought it was but didn't know for certain .... Go Kiwi's!!</DIV>

[Judestudio]

There was a closeout sale for the Polar a while back, they said it just wasn't popular enough (I think it's the hood). I tried on an Elite at a store, I REALLY liked it, fitted PERFECTLY, but it was way more expensive than the Polar's special price, not to say I need to buy a hooded vest on top [img]smileys/smiley6.gif[/img] So have to give that up.

Originally Posted by picxie

My LDS reckon the Pinnacle Elite will do me fine all year round. I don't know if that is just a sales pitch though.

Sales pitch. I really don't think any wetsuit will keep you warm in 10*C of water.... Good try though.

<div></div>
<div>

Originally Posted by picxie

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<div>I thought it was but didn't know for certain .... Go Kiwi's!!</div>

Yea. But since the invention, they've moved the whole business to US and production line in Asia.... What's that saying...? [img]smileys/smiley13.gif[/img]

[picxie]

Originally Posted by Judestudio

There was a closeout sale for the Polar a while back, they said it just wasn't popular enough (I think it's the hood). I tried on an Elite at a store, I REALLY liked it, fitted PERFECTLY, but it was way more expensive than the Polar's special price, not to say I need to buy a hooded vest on top [img]smileys/smiley6.gif[/img] So have to give that up.

<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Was that through a LDS? Which one? If you don't mind me asking, how much did you get it for? The Elite is $699 and the Polar is $899 through Dive HQ.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>

Originally Posted by Judestudio

Sales pitch. I really don't think any wetsuit will keep you warm in 10*C of water.... Good try though.

</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I'd be happy with something that kept me warm at the 14/15C mark. I think it's asking too much from a wetsuit and I think I'd like a semidry. Only problem is the store here only carries one brand and I'd like to try them on before buying. From what I've read, I really like the Mares Isotherm. I think I'll have to keep an eye out when I go out of town.</DIV>