LDS - pulls the valve off my 02 tank??

[navychop]

Took my 1986 Luxfer tank, last hydro in 05 with visual plus and 02 cleaning last month to a shop for a fill along with the other 86 vintage tank. The filled one, then didn't fill the other because it was "slightly bowed" and pulled the valve. I emailed the shop with the Luxfer 80 page plus inspection guide and a copy from XSscuba web site. Bowing is acceptable. Since when does a shop have a DOT hazmat authorized inspector? He claimed to have "failed" 4 tanks like this recently. Under what authority. Calling the shop, they tell me I should get the tank hydro'd again, they heard that may straighten out the bow.

If it is within DOT specs, passed a visual plus, what right does a shop have to tell me it can't be filled. So do I know have to spend 40 for a hydro and 75 for an 02 cleaning, when ST has new tanks for a little bit more??

I think the better business bureau, PAD and DOT should get a complaint. What do you think?

[jj1987]

I think you're overreacting.

People can get killed filling bad tanks. If a shop doesn't want to risk it, they by no means should have to. If you don't want to meet their requirements, go elsewhere to get them filled, or buy a compressor.

[navyhmc]

The other issue they may have is that the 1986 tank is 6351 alloy which is "THE BAD" alloy and a lot of places won't fill or test it (only recently have I heard that some places will not test) If the shop does their own hydro's, they are DOT Hydro cert and that means they can make that judgement call. I will admit I've not heard of a hydro straightening out a bow though.

Still, as a test center for even a VIP, they should know the standards and may have felt the tank was out of those standards. Not keen about them pulling the valve though.

[petronius]

Removing the valve means that it's contaminated as far as oxygen is concerned, right?

It seems to me that they could have declined to fill it, but I'd say they owe you the cost of returning it to the original condition.

No matter what the industry, I don't believe that any business has the right to damage your property - even in the noble goal of 'safety' - unless there is a legal mandate/requirement for them to do so. Otherwise, they should be allowed to turn down your business but that's it, IMO...

[navychop]

I can understand if they don't feel comfortable, not filling it. P.S. They filled it the week before. But it did just have a visual AND eddy test indicating no cracks. They had no right to pull the valve though. They don't do hydro's, they send them out. Now I have to pay for another 02 cleaning because they "condemned" the tank. And if I hydro, 75 +40, we're up to $115. I think they were out of line. So my Divemaster class is at another LDS.

[jj1987]

Are you seriously having your tank o2 cleaned again because it had a valve removed for a short period of time? Do you o2 clean your regs every time you disconnect them from the tank, too?

geez.

[Jack Hammer]

Removing the valve doesn't necessarily mean it's not O2 clean anymore, most tanks are not o2 cleaned and assembled in a sealed 'clean room,' they're done in probably the exact same spot as where they did yours.

They have the right to not fill your tank, especially if they feel it isn't safe for them. Pure O2 is not something to play around with, take chances, or to not take seriously. There is no law that says they have to fill any tank regardless of its condition and no moral "code" that requires them to do so either.

That said, there is also no reason for them to remove your valve without asking you. My understanding (i'm not a tank inspector) is that if your tank is bowed, it's no longer considered safe and I doubt a hydro would fix that (again I'm not an expert and could be wrong). I'm not sure they have the right to arbitrarily condemn a tank either. Either way I'd be pissed off if they did anything other than just say no and returned it to me.

Jack

[JahJahwarrior]

Look at this from a tank monkey's or a shop owner's perspective:

you go to fill some tanks, and see an o2 tank. You pull it over to the o2 cascade system, and check hydro dates and vip dates. It looks like an older tank (often easy to spot, colours were different, maybe you have a ton of vip stickers on it, who knows?), so you check the original hydro. It's 1986, which means it's a 6351 alloy tank, of which several have exploded, killing in some cases the fill station operator. This makes you nervous, since you are squatting there. You go ahead and rotate the tank to check the vip, and see it's been eddy current tested within the last year, which makes you feel slightly better, but of course, there is no way to prove it has not developed a crack between that test and now. While rotating the tank though, you notice that it is misshapen.

If it were me, and I saw a misshapen tank, or any tank that looked damaged, and it was 6351, I'd split. Leave the building, call 911, call the bomb squad, call someone. As far as I'm concerned, that tank could blow up at any moment and I don't want to be nearby. Now, if I were a discerning tank monkey, I'd crack the valve open so the tank drained as I sprint from the room ordering everyone in the shop to evacuate. Then I'd wait half an hour outside, until I was certain the tank was drained, then go back inside.



I would never fill the tank because it is made from a dangerous alloy. I would however, inform you of this when you dropped it off if I noticed. If I had drained your misshappen dangerous alloy tank full of a high pressure accelerant in an attempt to reduce a perceived risk to my life and the life of my employees and customers, I would reimburse you for the cost of the gas inside of the tank.

$75 is a lot of money to wash a tank and valve with Joy before reassembling it with o2 compatable lube. A heck of a lot.

I think they were playing it safe. I think they should reimburse you for the cost of the gas that was in the tank. I think you should buy a new tank.

[FishFood]

Removing the valve to do a quick inspection won't 'dirty' it up.

My LDS won't fill any older aluminum tank unless they do the VIP themselves, PERIOD. Sometimes they will even do the VIP for free if you're nice to them. Sounds like that's the policy of your LDS. I'd invest in a new tank to avoid such future hassle.

[jj1987]

jahjah had a good point. I wont get near that alloy if I know about it.

I've personally filled my own LP108's to 4200psi (see what most LDS say about that! lol), but I threw away my old AL tank because it was that alloy, I wouldn't even fill it, period.