Leisure Pro & Aqua Lung

[awap]

Originally Posted by jupitertreasures

Sorry guys but I'm not buying that "Grey Market" overseas purchase crap.
AL has their stuff manufactured overseas....probably Thailand.
OK, so suppose the manufacturer decides,"I'm going to sell some AL gear to LP".
Do you seriously think AL is going to allow gear with their name on it to go out the door without them getting a cut?
I DON'T THINK SO

AL knows what's going on and their getting a cut.
Don't kid yourself into thinking they aren't.

Have you heard anything about AL filing copyright infringement suits against either the manufacturer or LP?

I rest my case.

It is not counterfeit gear which is what you are describing. It is the real stuff produced by Aqualung. But that does not mean that Aqualung wants that gear to end up in the Leisurepro warehouse. I'm sure AL collects the appropriate wholesale price on each item. I'm also sure that AL provides the required warranty support of that gear. But the covered customer is Leisurepro, not the final buyer.

[CompuDude]

Originally Posted by awap

It is not counterfeit gear which is what you are describing. It is the real stuff produced by Aqualung. But that does not mean that Aqualung wants that gear to end up in the Leisurepro warehouse. I'm sure AL collects the appropriate wholesale price on each item. I'm also sure that AL provides the required warranty support of that gear. But the covered customer is Leisurepro, not the final buyer.

Agreed, just because the AL gear is shipping from a warehouse overseas doesn't make it defective or somehow "not real". It's the exact same gear.

Warranty issues aside, there's no safety issue about grey market gear. It's genuine aqualung gear. And yes, Aqualung was paid the same wholesale price by that overseas company as your local LDS paid for their factory-authorized gear. (or at least, whatever the negotiated price was, depending on volume, etc) Point is they've already gotten their cut, whether (1) they ship overseas and then the overseas place sells it to LP, or (2) they ship directly to your authorized LDS.

Scare tactics aside, the only issue with grey market gear is an issue of warranty. If you insist on manufacturer's warranty, stay clear of grey market stuff. If you're happy with third party warranties, like LP's, then it's just fine. (Note that Larry's point about factory-authorized service centers remains... you can have manuf.-warrantied stuff serviced anywhere that authorized, all over the world, but with LP's warranty you would need to send it to LP for service.)

[acamato]

I am sure the AL and SP can find out who LP's source is by tracking serial numbers of items sold by LP. They probably will not put any effort into it because of the volume of sales that LP generates for them.

Now we just need LP to carry regulator rebuild kits....

[awap]

Originally Posted by acamato

I am sure the AL and SP can find out who LP's source is by tracking serial numbers of items sold by LP. They probably will not put any effort into it because of the volume of sales that LP generates for them.

Now we just need LP to carry regulator rebuild kits....

A few years ago, this subject was discussed on SB with the Oceanic rep for Oceanic gear. At that time, LP was not an authorized dealer for Oceanic (they are now). His claim was that shutting down grey market sources was just not as easy as it sounds in a international market.

If you look at some of the European consumer protection laws, they must be quite different from ours. In the USA, the mfgr can exercise quite a bit of control over its independent authorized retailers, apparently to a much greater degree than in many European countries. It is my impression that many European retailer can do as they please in terms of prices, outlet means and customers. It is also my impression that manufacturers who cut off supplies to retailers without just cause may be liable for the retailers losses. So, unless a manufacturer is willing to completely step out of some markets, he is limited in terms of what he can do to control what happens to his products. I do know that Oceanic was putting quite an effort into controlling the grey market supply to LP and, in the end, LP became an authorized dealer and appears to be honoring the MAP agreement. (Too bad, without the price advantage, LP becomes less appealing.)

So, while I am not one to normally defend manufacturers, I do have my doubts that Scubapro and Aqualung are quite as underhanded as some would suggest. I do disagree with their anti-competitive price control policies and generally avoid their new products; but I do understand the appeal such policies would have to local small businesses if the policies are effective. Apparently, in spite of LP and a few other cracks in the USA market, those policies are effective enough to keep quite a large proportion of USA LDSs pushing those products as their primary lines.

[oddbod]

Originally Posted by caburrid

Oh man, you love to stir the pot, don't you? I have seen this on like a million threads on various boards...I always do love when someone throws that out there, lol...usually it is me doing something like that!

I'm sorry I just couldn't help myself.

Originally Posted by ScubaToys Larry

And obviously the big difference it does make to a consumer, is if you have a gray market item without a manufactures warranty, you cannot walk it into any authorized dealer for your free parts, warranty work, etc. It has to be shipped back to NY and back for any warranty service. Then you are hoping that they still have access to that gray market channel for parts, replacements, etc. And since the item is not registered with the manufacturer, you are not contacted by them in any case of a recall, upgrade offer, etc.

Larry, even if I was to personally walk into your store and buy an Xxxxxx product from you, Xxxxxx Australia will not cover it under warranty.
Due to the shrinking world , I can buy a product from you, LP, et al, at below half the price I would pay for it here and often get it delivered to my door faster than my LDS can get it for me from the Australian distributor. Warranty issues, if any, really don't increase the expense, safety recalls are still covered under local consumer laws and often it is cheaper to forgo the annual services and purchase new every few years.