"Diver replacable" computer batteries = built-in attrition?

[rtrski]

OK, so at the risk of being labeled an idiot (sorry, my wife already beat you to it ).

Wife and I had identical rigs with Oceanic Veo250 puck computers on quick-release "Swiv" consoles. Hers was a year older than mine. Battery ran down recently, so I sprung for the battery and o-ring kit and fought my way through that BRUTE of a replacement. Getting the computer out of the rubber boot was bad enough, then opening it with a screwdriver in that little depression to remove the retaining ring (since I didn't have the nifty two-prong tool) was enough of a fight I took a break before actually trying the battery replacement and closure.

I really thought I'd done it right as to holding the door down, making sure it 'squished' the o-ring out evenly, then maintained pressure while I fought the retaining ring into engaging again (with more than a couple of scraped knuckles from wildly slipping screwdrivers to show for it). Of course, our first dive in the FG after the swap, her computer goes "poof" as soon as we hit depth. Veo250: dead on arrival. At least the Spree now has rentals so we only lost one dive, and since we aborted immediately we got to continue the rest of the day on computers instead of switching to tables due to losing the 1st dive saturation statistics.

So here's the point:

a) How many of you have SUCCESSFULLY changed out 'diver replacable' batteries in dive computers?
b) If you have, what brand and type?
c) If you've had similar experiences to mine (and I've still got another of those puppies that will need a battery next year) and have sworn off self-maintenance, have you found dive shops will replace for you - and verify the seal - at semi-reasonable cost? I confess I did not ask ST first.

Basically that back door design was a trap, near as I can see - without specialized fixturing to hold it all in place and the two-prong tool I can't imaging swapping those out on any sort of regular basis with any success rate in double digit percentages, ever. So I can plan on letting someone else do the battery replacement (and I heard horror stories from other divers on the Spree that 'their shop won't do it anymore ... they're also sick of being told it flooded and having to replace it') or just move away from so-called "diver replacable" designs entirely.

BTW, I do successfully swap batteries in an Ike strobe, open/close my camera housing, etc. So I'm not a complete idiot when it comes to checking an o-ring for cleanliness, lightly lubing it with appropriate silicone, using the right durometer o-ring (only manufacturer parts), etc. But that door on the Veo250 was a nightmare - you had to line it up and squish it perfectly to even get the retaining ring to seat, much less try to rotate back to the locked position.

Right now we're leaning toward the Mares Nemo Sport as a replacement for her (she liked the wrist-mount she got rented by the boat and wants to go that direction instead of a console) which is NOT diver replacable - but right now I'm thinking the mail battery swap is more reliable than the DIY route anyway.

Additional comments, anyone??

[ReefHound]

I can see how you feel that it's better to send it off. I've replaced the batteries on Suuntos, a Mosquito and a Vyper. Maybe Suunto has a more idiot-proof design? It shouldn't be that hard to get a seal. People do it all the time with cameras.

Where did you get the replacement kit? Was the o-ring for sure the right diameter? Did you lube it? Did you clean the seat?

[CompuDude]

I've never had to replace the battery in my computer, but it's a factory-replace Uwatec so I won't have to send it in for a couple more years anyway.

If the battery life is decent, and you're the type of person who can monitor battery life carefully enough to avoid surprises, I really don't see the appeal of the user-replaceable battery, given the number of stories like this I've heard.

(I've also heard stories of non-replaceable batteries dying and losing out on part of a trip, though, so I guess it's a balancing act as always, but short of a problem with the computer I see that as a user error for not keeping an eye on it as much as the user error for replacing the battery incorrectly... the difference is my computers battery lasts 300+ dives between changes)

[Capt Hook]

Replaced batts in Tusa-IQ400 and Oceanic Versa Pro, both worked out fine.

[ReefHound]

Part of the appeal is that it enhances the used market, as a second-hand owner of that uwatec would be looking at a $150 fee to get the battery replaced as opposed to a $5 lithium button battery.

Another part would be the independence factor, being able to do it yourself in 10 minutes in your living room as opposed to a few trips to the LDS and a 2 week wait.

[finflippers]

I have been changing out my own batteries on my dive computer for 11 years with any problems. I have a Sherwood "The Source" computer and the only tool required is a coin to replace the battery.

[ReefHound]

Originally Posted by finflippers

I have been changing out my own batteries on my dive computer for 11 years with any problems. I have a Sherwood "The Source" computer and the only tool required is a coin to replace the battery.

Wow! Your computer runs on a coin.

[awap]

Well, sometimes it is important to use the correct tool and procedures. But it does sound like the new Oceanic closure may not be a very user friendly design. I have older Oceanics that use a coin to open and close the cover. A screwdriver ofr the wrong size coin will damage the slot. And there is nothing terribly tricky about replacing the o-ring or correctly reassembling it. About the only thing you have to watch is the o-ring and its seating surfaces are clean. In the case of the your computer, it sounds like the required tool is a pin spanner. While you might be able to do the job with some needle nose pliers (curved would be best) functioning as the spanner, a screw driver is just not going to work well. I never understood why an Oceanic battery kit containing about $4 worth of batteries and $.10 worth of an o-ring was so expensive.

One of the features I look for in a computer is user replacable batteries. It gives me the options and limits the games the mfgr can play - like discontinuing the battery.

[CompuDude]

Originally Posted by ReefHound

Part of the appeal is that it enhances the used market, as a second-hand owner of that uwatec would be looking at a $150 fee to get the battery replaced as opposed to a $5 lithium button battery.

Another part would be the independence factor, being able to do it yourself in 10 minutes in your living room as opposed to a few trips to the LDS and a 2 week wait.

I'm less worried about the second part of that, given the 3 year lifespan, but I forgot to mention that first part. That's absolutely a major drawback of these units... resale value definitely takes a hit. If you're going to buy one from the original owner, I highly recommend buying from someone you know who can send it in for warranty battery replacement for you, or at the very least, having the seller send it in for a new battery immediately before delivering it to you, so at least you'll have a good long time to use it before needing to deal with more costs.

Fortunately my wife will be inheriting my computer when I upgrade, and the new computer I'll be getting (Uwatec Galileo Sol) has user-replaceable batteries.

[rtrski]

Originally Posted by ReefHound

I can see how you feel that it's better to send it off. I've replaced the batteries on Suuntos, a Mosquito and a Vyper. Maybe Suunto has a more idiot-proof design? It shouldn't be that hard to get a seal. People do it all the time with cameras.

Where did you get the replacement kit? Was the o-ring for sure the right diameter? Did you lube it? Did you clean the seat?

Reef:

Yes to all the above (lubed, cleaned seat and door with non-fibrous material (wife's makeup sponge 'que', not cotton q-tips), new ring, battery was home purchased but to exact # in manual, ring was from Oceanic). As I said, I do camera housings, open/close strobe battery doors, all without similar fiasco.

This design has a 'retaining ring' with two of the spanner holes and a small sideways "screwdriver" groove to let you do about a 1/8 rotation to 'lock' and 'unlock' it. Get that off and there's a domed door that sits on an o-ring. First fight is getting that door to unseat from the back after being there for years without using something like a screwdriver that will mar the edge, but eventually fingernails do the trick.

The o-ring fits neatly into a channel in the back of the computer, but the door is 'smaller' than the exposed opening since there's the retaining ring to hold around it. So when you 'seat' the door you must first put the retaining ring over your thumb to have it ready, seat the door and press down uniformly with your thumb, making sure you see the o-ring remaining in position properly along the door edge (and the door seems to have a 'domed' feel, so pressing it down in the center is like balancing on a Pilates ball), then slip the ring down your thumb and try to get it to reseat and rotate. (Again, with a screwdriver, putting force on it 'tangentially' near the outer radius.)

Needless to say, nothing like having a nice big thumbscrew (a la strobe door cover) or a coin-grooved screw-down door (a la strobe preflash/nonpreflash settings panel cover). All of which can still fail if the o-ring is compromised by stuff, or nicked, but I'm comfortably certain it was the installation that went wrong in this case, not a cleaning issue.

The captain and DM on the Spree confirmed they've had nothing but problems with this particular design themselves, so while I accept it was "user error" (clearly the design did hold a seal for 3 years, when properly done) I don't feel too far out of line saying it's a bit of a stretch to call it even remotely "user friendly" or "robust" in design with a 2-piece door like that.

Bottom line, I'm going to make sure any future purchases are either a) entirely the manufacturer's responsibility to replace, albiet probably at a cost, or b ) only buy a 'diver replaceable' unit with a better design than that! The aforementioned coin-slotted screw-on door style (per finflippers, below) sounds much more TRULY "user servicable." Guess I'll start downloading manuals on all the computers my wife likes to help make the decision....

P.S. this was bought 3 years ago, so not sure if this is a "new" Oceanic closure or not. Will check manuals on the other Oceanic puck size computers and see if they're different. Overall we liked the computer - good simple display with nice large #s and indicators....