DIR a marketing scheme?

[BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)]

A somewhat famous (and to remain nameless) dive shop owner told me that DIR is more of a marketing strategy than a diving philosophy.

He's been around a long time and has seen it all. I don't have enough experience to make that judgement one way or the other.

Is he right?

[peteg]

[peteg]

I am a n00b too, so take my words accordingly. Sounds like a case of a certain pot refering the color of a kettle. This like is to an article that explains the evolution of DIR.

gue.com/Equipment/Evolution/index.html

The rub here is that JJ, besides being the founder and president of GUE and deeply involved with WKKP, is also the president and founder of Halcyon. My understanding is that DIR came about because people were dying in the caves of Florida because of non-standardized gear configs and tank-labeling. DIR was an attempt to stop the deaths.

[fireflock]

IMO - no, but I can see why people might think that.

The Halcyon/GUE relationship has always struck me as kind of uncomfortable at times. I know a handful of DIR divers and Halcyon is not the most common logo on their gear (by a long shot).

If DIR is a marketing strategy, it was probably a poor one. I think it's fair to say that even the folks at GUE will acknowledge that the acronym Doing it Right has turned a lot of people off.

As an outsider (not DIR) I'd say DIR is more about approaching diving from a different mindset. The team concept is paramount; skills, planning, and evaluation are very important. One of the key ideas is to start with configurations/habits/skills/mindset that will take you as far as you want to go in diving (ie. tech/cave/whatever) without having the re-learn a lot of things.

Now someone who has actually taken a GUE class can come tell me where I'm wrong

Rich

[RoadRacer1978]

I'm sure there will be some very good answers here. I don't think is is a marketing scheme. You have to make a very big investment into gear, if you aren't already diving with the apporved gear. They are not trying to have a class for the masses. To me they keep to their beliefs, whether you agree with them or not, and do not lower the standards to allow more people in just to make money. I wouldn't call that a marketing scheme.

[ScubaToys Larry]

There is no doubt that the DIR wave was pretty much inspired by the tech manufacturers. Halcyon in particular.... the intertwining of training agencies and manufacturers is not new to this industry. US Diver worked hand in hand with NASDS to promote gear and training. That in no way indicates it is a bad thing - it's just interesting to note.

From the retailer standpoint who is well connected with the manufacturers, and someone who frequents boards, it's also interesting to note that for the small market that tec is (about 5% according to the latest figures) it garners so much of the talk. But it's relatively new - so perhaps that makes sense.

We're really looking forward to bringing in the new tech gear from Hollis, and every time we turn around oxycheq and others have neat new products. We've been expanding our tech area, both online and in the store, and thanks to Woody doing tech courses at our store, we have the full capability for everything through trimix fills.

It will be interesting to monitor the growth of this segment of the dive industry over the coming years.

[CompuDude]

Originally Posted by fireflock

IMO - no, but I can see why people might think that.

The Halcyon/GUE relationship has always struck me as kind of uncomfortable at times. I know a handful of DIR divers and Halcyon is not the most common logo on their gear (by a long shot).

If DIR is a marketing strategy, it was probably a poor one. I think it's fair to say that even the folks at GUE will acknowledge that the acronym Doing it Right has turned a lot of people off.

As an outsider (not DIR) I'd say DIR is more about approaching diving from a different mindset. The team concept is paramount; skills, planning, and evaluation are very important. One of the key ideas is to start with configurations/habits/skills/mindset that will take you as far as you want to go in diving (ie. tech/cave/whatever) without having the re-learn a lot of things.

Now someone who has actually taken a GUE class can come tell me where I'm wrong

Rich

No, you're pretty much spot on. If DIR is a marketing scheme, what are "they" selling? Once upon a time, people were somewhat over-zealous about Halcyon gear, and the accusation would have made more sense. Considering, as you noted, how much DIR-compliant gear is in service that is NOT made by Halcyon (I only own a little H gear, myself, and aside from a dive knife, all I own was purchased used), who is benefiting from this scheme?

The GUE Instructors don't make enough to quit their day jobs. Their purpose in teaching their style of instruction is prepare divers to SAFELY take on high risk technical diving. Is this marketing?

Most of the conflict is internet BS. People tend to shoot their mouth off from behind a keyboard much more readily than they would in person.

"DIR" itself is a moniker that is officially deprecated by GUE, due to the negative connotations. People still use it a lot out of habit, however... it's going to be hard to change that.

[fireflock]

To play the other side, 'they' are selling a lot of gear to people who will never come close to diving in situations where they need it. To borrow from another recreational industry, it's kind of like selling a bunch of North Face jackets (expedition quality gear) to people who will wear them to walk from their SUV to Starbucks. Or - selling Land Cruisers to people who might use them to drive over the curb once or twice.

From a manufacturers perspective, that's the model I would be thinking about.

Rich

[CompuDude]

Originally Posted by fireflock

To play the other side, 'they' are selling a lot of gear to people who will never come close to diving in situations where they need it. To borrow from another recreational industry, it's kind of like selling a bunch of North Face jackets (expedition quality gear) to people who will wear them to walk from their SUV to Starbucks. Or - selling Land Cruisers to people who might use them to drive over the curb once or twice.

From a manufacturers perspective, that's the model I would be thinking about.

Rich

You make a valid point... but there is also a point to be made that the gear in question is the best and most reliable available, and has real positive benefits to using it even in easy recreational circumstances. Just because someone is going to Starbucks means they should use an inferior jacket that doesn't keep them as warm and cozy (and dry) as the North Face expedition jacket?

Just because I dive a technical rig doesn't mean I want to switch to a regular BC and regs with short hoses because I'm doing an easy 45' local dive. I enjoy the benefits this rig brings to ALL diving, and there is value in consistency.

Read over the "bp/w advantages" thread to see a number of reasons why something that CAN be used to do technical diving also makes a great recreational buoyancy control device.

[fireflock]

I know a lot of people see things that way.

'It's life support - why would you settle for anything but the absolute best' has been the dive retailers best friend for many many years......

I jump off the boat with my BP/W, overkill for a regulator, and a $700 computer. The greybeard Capitan next to me is wearing a beat up old faded jacket bc, using a unbalanced piston reg, a $25 watch, and wearing dickies coveralls. We do the same dive and see the same things. He does more 'tech' diving than almost all of his customers who show up with the latest and greatest that the dive industry has to market.

Who's to say that he's not just a little smarter than me after all?

Rich