Two different DM levels

[comet24]

Originally Posted by Tekdivr

I couldn't agree more! The upside of revamping the DM program would be better instructor candidates.....hopefully!

Usually the better instructors are those that have been DM's for awhile anyway. I been DMing for a few years now and have learned so much about teaching. By working with many classes and instructors as a DM I get to see what works and what doesn't. If I become an instructor one day I can steal a little bit from all the good instructors I have had the opportunity to work with.

[CODMAN]

I don't quite agree. Rather it should be "by the time you sign off on a DM candidate certification", all that should be near perfect.

I personally have no problem with someone having less than perfect skills entering a pro course. After all, it's a great learning tool with lots of time with "instructors" to help perfect everything. The problem is instructors giving out the Cert even if people haven't reached a sufficient level...

That's the business side of things... get em in, get payment for the course, and get em out ASAP... So you can get more in... At a pro level it shouldn't be that way... Anyways...
Just my 0.02$

[quote=Tekdivr;333848]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

Maybe that's the fault of the dive shop, but by the time you start certifying for the professional side of PADI, your trim, buoyancy and weighting should be darn near perfect.

[Tom H]

mitsuguy, I would think that the internship way may be somewhat better than the other way. We have no choice in our area and practise the skills on each other--there is only one shop for maybe 100 miles. We do one OW class and a charter. I'm not so sure how much better the internship is, though. As a band (music) teacher, I learned way more in my first year or 2 teaching than I did during practise teaching. I don't know at all, but would imagine the difference in the 2 DM course approaches would be that with the internship you have actual students with problems to solve and you would thus develop a rapport with students. For some (like myself), this would be one of the least concerns, especially in a one-on-one situation (somewhat easier that 100 6th graders in a room for band practise for the first time!). As I said, I do agree with you that the internship has to be somewhat better--especially because it seems to be a lot longer. But I think that you would need some statistics or extensive experience in meeting DMs from both systems to say that internship is the only way to go.

[Mtrewyn]

They might be changing the DM programs to let some one that cannot do "something" or "parts" or "skills" well enough to still get a "card" of some nature.

I don't know just my 2 psi

[WaScubaDude]

[quote=CODMAN;333863]I don't quite agree. Rather it should be "by the time you sign off on a DM candidate certification", all that should be near perfect.

I personally have no problem with someone having less than perfect skills entering a pro course. After all, it's a great learning tool with lots of time with "instructors" to help perfect everything. The problem is instructors giving out the Cert even if people haven't reached a sufficient level...

Originally Posted by Tekdivr

CODMAN, By the time a diver is a DM candidate they must have AOW cert and Rescue. A DIVER HAS NO BUSINESS EVEN STARTING DM IF HE OR SHE DOES NOT HAVE BUOYANCY AND TRIM, AS WELL AS A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER SKILLS, DOWN COLD. I say, go back to AOW!

Further, even needing to consider the possibility is a rude awakening to just how lacking current OW & AOW training really is.

[Daved]

While I won't yell it--current certs are rude. there is a lot lacking in open water, let alone AOW. I went through a Cattle company in Cairns for my open water--had a great instructor thank God---but they are a for profit company. I do not know anyone who failed open water in Cairns. However I do know a few people that should not be diving who were certified as divers.
If--and I hope--this "reclassification" will improve the mentality of certain dive schools, excellent.
What I would rather see is a "PADI Police" which could de-certify a few companies and make the rest pull up their socks.

Dollars to doughnuts it is just a money grab.

[longtailbda]

Originally Posted by mitsuguy

haven't heard anything about that...

I can tell you that as of right now, it is almost like there are two completely separate courses anyways... one version you intern and deal with actual students, the others have certified divers "pretend" to be students and "pretend" to do things wrong... to me, there is no option, the internship way is the only way to go...

Just completed my DM and would have to agree the internship is the way to go.

[Chris at Silent World]

I think one problem is landlocked LDS versus PADI resorts.

At your local shop, it can take months to do a DM class, often with no OW classes in sight that the DM candidate can join in on.

Whereas the resorts on the ocean are doing DSD's practically daily and regularly running OW & AOW classes. Internship is more easily achievable in shorter timescales. More clientele, more instructors, more opportunity.

Also, in my humble opinion the PADI system is about training you to be an educator and dive industry professional. The prsonal dive skills ability is not the issue. Obviously they should have demo quality recreational skills but they dont have to be Jacques Cousteau. I often get extraordinary instructors with super people skills who have no training or skills in advanced or tech diving, which is OK.

[scubadiver888]

Originally Posted by Chris at Silent World

I think one problem is landlocked LDS versus PADI resorts.

At your local shop, it can take months to do a DM class, often with no OW classes in sight that the DM candidate can join in on.

Whereas the resorts on the ocean are doing DSD's practically daily and regularly running OW & AOW classes. Internship is more easily achievable in shorter timescales. More clientele, more instructors, more opportunity.

Also, in my humble opinion the PADI system is about training you to be an educator and dive industry professional. The prsonal dive skills ability is not the issue. Obviously they should have demo quality recreational skills but they dont have to be Jacques Cousteau. I often get extraordinary instructors with super people skills who have no training or skills in advanced or tech diving, which is OK.

You have a very valid point. I see a lot of situations when I'm diving in the Caribbean. I'm now getting my DM at home. There is not a lot to dive around my area. It is a 4 to 5 hour dive to some fairly challenging diving. I just audit an Open Water class. We had one student. He was an athlete, lifeguard, on the swim team at school. He nailed his buoyancy in 10 minutes. Not really learning a lot. I will have to wait until next summer before we start seeing more experiences to round out my training. I could technically finish this year but I don't feel okay with that.