Wifes Envoy Freeflowing

[creggur]

My wife and I just got Zeagle Envoys from ST two weeks ago... While taking them out on our first dives (outside of our pool) we noticed that my wifes reg is ever-so-slightly in a constant free-flow.

When you first pressurize the system everything is perfect, after you take a breath from the reg it starts seeping air constantly... I talked to, I believe Will at ST, and he said just send it back & they will take care of it as it is likely a minor adjustment.. I don't mind doing that, however if it is a simple adjustment that doesn't take much mechanical ability, and won't endanger my wifes life, I'd like to skip the whole ship-out/ship-back thing and do it myself...Anybody know how complicated this is, and do I need special equipment to do it??

[ScubaToys Larry]

Oh... it's pretty simple - depending on what we have to do here. A slight creep can be caused by one of 2 things. Either the High Pressure (hp) seat is "creeping" which means that the pressure is slowly building up past the 145 mark, and since that pressure has to go somewhere - it opens up one of the first stages.

Since you say if you just air it up and let it sit there it does not do that, I would doubt that is the problem.

So then there is a "seat" in the second stage. Basically a little piece of rubber, and something called a "poppet" - basically a hollow pipe with a kind of sharp edge. The pipe is supposed to hit the rubber when closed, and that stops the air flow. When you inhale, you suck down the diaphragm which hits a lever, that then toggles the seat away from the poppet so air can flow through that pipe and around the seat, and into the second stage.

So if that poppet does not have just enough pressure to seal on the rubber seat, you get a slight free flow. If set against it too hard - it's harder to inhale. So you set them up to be easy breathing, but it is possible it was set just a bit too easy, and after the reg cycled a bunch of times, it puts the smallest little crease in that rubber seat and allows a little air to pass by.

With the Envoy Deluxe (adjustable version) you simply turn the adjustment knob to tighten it up a bit. But if you have the non-adjustable version, it's a bit more to tighten it up.

A quick thought, if this is making you wish that you got the deluxe version instead, we can swap out the second stages for you and just charge you the difference - and we'll send it, walk you through swapping them, and give you a pre-paid return tag to send the other back - no charge shipping either way.

But if you want to adjust it, it's a pretty simple affair if you are at all mechanically inclined. What you have to do is remove the second stage from the hose. Make sure you use two wrenches when you do this. One to hold the nut on the reg, the other to unscrew the hose. Then look into the hole where the hose connected and you will see the hole that the air flows through to the poppet and seat is actually an allen key hole. And if you take the allen wrench (should be 3/16 I think) you can tighten up the poppet a bit. That whole assembly is threaded, so as you turn clockwise, it will push the poppet closer to the seat.

IMPORTANT!

Since we are turning that knife end poppet, we want to pull the seat away from it before we turn - otherwise we could score (cut) the seat a little and hurt and not help our situation. This is simple... Just push down on the purge, which hits the lever, which removes the seat from the poppet.

So with the purge depressed, turn that allen key just a bit. Maybe from noon to 1 or 2 on a clock. Just a smidge since your free flow is very slight.

Then screw everything together hand tight (it won't leak - there are o-rings that seal everything) and hit the purge a few times, and try the reg. If the problem is solved, tighten things up just past hand tight. (Don't crank things too hard - this is scuba gear - not lug nuts.) If it is too hard to inhale, you went too far, if still leaking, not far enough. Re-adjust and when you got it, tighten everything down.

So there is the step by step - if you have any problems or questions, we can also walk you through on the phone, or will be more than happy to reimburse any shipping costs if you decide to send it to us.

Keep me informed on what you do and how it works out.

Sorry for the trouble - it's one of those things that can just happen now and then as the regs go through their break in period.

[creggur]

OK I think this is within my relm of ability...Just a couple more questions..

What would the cost be to swap out two second stages for the Deluxes (my wife's and mine)?

One of the reasons we didn't get the Deluxes to begin with is that we are very new divers, and the only difference between the regular and deluxe was the adjustment.. My thinking was we have enough to deal with right now (bouyancey, weighting, learning the computers) that we didn't want to have to deal with constantly adjusting the regs...

So is it a set it and forget it like the Oceanic GT3 (which I almost went with) or is it constantly adjusting for the best airflow?

I like the Zeagle, but the more I read I almost wish I had gone with the Oceanic's now, (Smaller 2nd stage, mechanical balance..etc...)

Almost forgot to say no apology needed!! Being in the service end of the car business I completely understand break-in periods, and minor adjustments when something is brand new..

[Black-Gorrilla]

the green thing is what turns... PUSH THE PURGE AS YOU MOVE THAT GREEN PIECE(might not be green for you)

[creggur]

Thanks for the images, I alway liked books with pictures..

[ScubaToys Larry]

You are looking at about $50 each to modify yours... we just put the adjustment kits in... takes us about 15 mintues. We'll charge you just the parts - no charge on the labor, and again, we'll pick up the shipping.

And no, when dealing with adjustable regs, you really never adjust them during the dive unless you get a slight free flow, then you back them off.

For example, if swimming into a current, you will have water hitting the purge valve as you look forward. This extra pressure might have the reg free flow just a bit... so you back it down. Then if you turn to swim with the current, you crank it back up. But aside from a situation like that, you don't mess with the knob.

Just let us know and we'll get you set up!

[creggur]

So let me make sure I've got this right, I can send you my reg, you install the adjustment, and then viola Envoy Deluxe... Very cool...

Or you send me new second stages, and I swap them out...no problem there, I've also already moved our Octo-Z hoses to different ports with no problem. I've also replaced the original mouthpieces on our 2nd's so I don't know if my modifications will affect how you want to go about this....

Or I may just adjust her's, got to talk to my wife, and see if she want's the deluxe for hers.... I'll probably get it for mine either way...Thanks Larry

[Zenagirl]

Gee, I'm even thinking of upgrading my over 3 year old Envoy to a deluxe now!

Seriously, your minor free flow problem was exactly why I took the PADI Equipment specialty. Our instructor not only went through maintenance stuff and the regular curriculum (learned a lot about tanks!), but he spent a good part of the class teaching us how to do "field fixes" and we got to take apart a bunch of different regs.

Before my husband bought his Zeagle regs, he had continual problems with his Aqualung Legend creeping and free flowing (didn't matter if it was before, soon after, or long after a service). On a trip it free flowed something awful on our first day of diving and I was able to adjust it so he could use it for the rest of the trip.

[creggur]

Yeah I think we're going to go with the upgrade, wonder if that has any effect on the warranty... Didn't think of that before as I have already registered it as a regular Envoy...hmmmm

[ScubaToys Larry]

No problem on the warranty... it's all zeagle parts put in at an authorized zeagle dealer... you're good.