Long hose, short hose rec. config

[cbope]

Someone has offered me a set of lightly used miflex hoses for a reasonable price. However, the primary hose is a 36". If I use it with a 90-elbow, will it still route under the arm or is a 36 too short? My fist stage is a Mares MR12 and I'm using the DFC port for my primary.

[mtnplayva]

Originally Posted by cbope

I want to donate my primay to an OOG diver, so I will have my octo necklaced on a 22" black hose. My main questions are about primary hose configuration. It seems to be the general consensus that I should go with a 40" black hose with a 90-elbow or swivel under the arm.

1. Is the length ok for my configuration and needs?

2. Is there a benefit to get a swivel over a simple 90-elbow?

A couple other questions regarding the marking of my primary for an OOG diver and the color of my secondary:

3. Several posts have mentioned changing the cover of the primary donated reg to yellow. Does this mean changing the purge valve cover, or is it a cover that goes over the reg?

4. My secondary is a yellow octo. Has anyone had problems with an OOG diver going for the yellow secondary on a necklace? Just wondering if this has been a problem for anyone, since many octo's are yellow.

My primary reg is a Mares Proton Metal and secondary is a Proton octo.

I currently own a Proton 42 2nd stage and a Mares MV octo (which I don't like). I just ordered a new Proton 42 octo and had the same questions about color and hose configuration. I finally decided to go the 7' route now since I was ordering new hoses anyway. I figure if I don't like it then it'll be easy to sell vs a 4' or 5' hose. After much discussion between instructors/staff at the shop, I decided to go with black hoses and change the purge face plates so the yellow is on my primary in my mouth. They all had different opinions and it was an interesting topic. It would be interesting to see stats on what an OOG diver really does - I've never been in that circumstance so I don't have experience other than training. I know we are taught to look for yellow but do people really think about that when they are panicked? I hope that if I am ever in that situation I will be aware enough to be able to react and donate air using my primary vs having the panicked OOG diver ripping it from my mouth or necklace.
Good luck with whatever you decide!

[WD8CDH]

My primary is usually a double hose regulator and my backup is a single hose regulator with a long hose. In that configuration, the backup is yellow since it is what might be grabbed. When I dive single hose only, the primary is the yellow long hose and the secondary is a black (or metal) second stage on a short hose.

So, for me, the regulator that I expect to be grabbed by an OOG diver (even if it is not my buddy) is always the bright yellow one and the longest hose one.

[Splitlip]

Originally Posted by mitsuguy

There is the general assumption that an oog diver goes for the one you are breathing from... But at the same time, that goes against everything they have ever been trained for, which is going for the yellow octo in the triangle on your chest... to assume that they want the one you are breathing from probably works 50% of the time... if it was me, I KNOW for a fact that I would go for the yellow octo, so, if I were ever to be in a state of panic, swimming towards someone, I would be locating whatever was yellow as I came up to you... But I am also experienced enough to know that if the octo is directly beneath your chin, that you are diving an alternate configuration...

the problem I think you could potentially run into is someone getting confused after having always been taught that the alternate is yellow and in the triangle, is them trying to go for the short hose... I say yellow for your primary and black for your alternate...

You are also assuming that the octo is secured in the golden triangle. 1/2 the time (IME) it is not.

I go for the best of both worlds. I donate my primary which is on a long hose (40") under my arm. The hose is yellow.

[CompuDude]

Originally Posted by cbope

Someone has offered me a set of lightly used miflex hoses for a reasonable price. However, the primary hose is a 36". If I use it with a 90-elbow, will it still route under the arm or is a 36 too short? My fist stage is a Mares MR12 and I'm using the DFC port for my primary.

The 36" is probably (just) long enough to route under your arm, but honestly, I would just spend the extra money and get the right hose to begin with. 40" is as short as I want for a donation situation as it is... you barely have room to work, compared to the longer (5' and 7') setups.

As for the elbow vs. swivel question above, I would definitely stick to the elbow. A swivel in this setup makes things a lot floppier than I'm comfortable with, based on the one I've played with.

As for the color of the "long" hose, I don't think it's necessary to go yellow. You can if you really want, but it's really not necessary. It's important, however, to NOT necklace a yellow reg on a short hose. You don't want divers grabbing at a reg on the short hose, it's going to end with difficulty for all concerned. A yellow faceplate on the primary is ok, but I still think that it's best to have both regs in neutral colors (black/gray etc).

Just be sure to actually route the 40" hose UNDER your arm. I've watched too many divers (including my wife, although she is still very new) forget, and route the hose around the outside of the arm, which then pushes the reg out of your mouth (almost, but there is a clear cant, and it can't be comfortable). Not to mention it will get tangled and awkward when you donate, if the hose is not routed under your arm properly. This isn't an issue with the longer hose setups, just the shorter 40" setup.

[WaScubaDude]

Originally Posted by mtnplayva

...snip..
. It would be interesting to see stats on what an OOG diver really does - I've never been in that circumstance so I don't have experience other than training. I know we are taught to look for yellow but do people really think about that when they are panicked? I hope that if I am ever in that situation I will be aware enough to be able to react and donate air using my primary vs having the panicked OOG diver ripping it from my mouth or necklace.
Good luck with whatever you decide!

The few times I have seen OOG situations (usually only the perception of being OOG) The "OOG" diver swims quickly to the nearest diver and yanks the reg out of that divers mouth.
I don't dive a necklace with back up reg, ( I own one but didn't like having it around my neck) but I think they are a great idea. The modified DIR/Rec rig would be your primary on a 4 to 5 ft hose and your back up on a necklace close enough to lean your head down and bite it. I think 7ft is too long for rec diving as it lets the OOG diver get out of reach, 5ft may be too long as well for the same reason.

I just finished rescue and plan to reconfigure my rig so that I can have both regs on 4 ft hoses that are bungeed behind me with both coming over my right shoulder. Primary in my mouth and backup in a pull away clip at my highest R shoulder D ring. either rig can be "grabbed" or with in biting distance for me, and the OOG diver will be at arms length from me.

PS. OOG divers often bolt for the surface before getting to a "donor" or after taking a reg, taking themself and an unwitting donor for a ride.
Any one have suggestions on dealing with this Situation??

PPS. I think compu is right on about hose and reg neutral color (my octo is curently yellow with yellow hose, but will change)
Either the OOG diver is going to grab the reg out of your mouth or you are going to be fortunate enough to donate the reg you choose either way color doesnt matter much and could actualy cause confusion. IE: the pic. below with the yellow hose leading to a black primary reg.

[CompuDude]

Originally Posted by WaScubaDude

I think 7ft is too long for rec diving as it lets the OOG diver get out of reach, 5ft may be too long as well for the same reason.

Have you tried one?

Unless you deploy the full length of the hose, the OOG diver isn't getting any further from you than with a 40" hose.

The long hose gives you options. Keep them close, give yourselves space... it's all up to you.

[buddhasummer]

Originally Posted by chinacat46

I've always found that regardless of colors and hose lengths the best solution is to discuss everything with your buddy beforehand thus leaving less to chance.

Absolutely, I do this every time without exception, regardless of whether new or usual buddy.

[cbope]

Originally Posted by CompuDude

The 36" is probably (just) long enough to route under your arm, but honestly, I would just spend the extra money and get the right hose to begin with. 40" is as short as I want for a donation situation as it is... you barely have room to work, compared to the longer (5' and 7') setups.

As for the elbow vs. swivel question above, I would definitely stick to the elbow. A swivel in this setup makes things a lot floppier than I'm comfortable with, based on the one I've played with.

As for the color of the "long" hose, I don't think it's necessary to go yellow. You can if you really want, but it's really not necessary. It's important, however, to NOT necklace a yellow reg on a short hose. You don't want divers grabbing at a reg on the short hose, it's going to end with difficulty for all concerned. A yellow faceplate on the primary is ok, but I still think that it's best to have both regs in neutral colors (black/gray etc).

Just be sure to actually route the 40" hose UNDER your arm. I've watched too many divers (including my wife, although she is still very new) forget, and route the hose around the outside of the arm, which then pushes the reg out of your mouth (almost, but there is a clear cant, and it can't be comfortable). Not to mention it will get tangled and awkward when you donate, if the hose is not routed under your arm properly. This isn't an issue with the longer hose setups, just the shorter 40" setup.

Thanks for the input, I already decided to forego the 36" hose and get the 40" for my primary. I'm going to go with all black hoses and a 90-elbow on my primary. But now I wonder what to do about my yellow octo, since you pointed out it's not a good idea to have it necklaced. I guess I'll have to try to find a non-yellow Mares reg to replace it with.

[mtnplayva]

Originally Posted by cbope

But now I wonder what to do about my yellow octo, since you pointed out it's not a good idea to have it necklaced. I guess I'll have to try to find a non-yellow Mares reg to replace it with.

Can you switch out the purge face plate or is the whole thing yellow? The Proton I just ordered only has a yellow button on the side which they told me was easily exchangable for the black one on the Proton 42.