Had a major regulator problem today...

[BoomerNJ]

Hello all,

I went up to Dutch Springs today, which for those who aren't familiar with it is a fresh water lake in PA. Well, when I got my gear together & turned on my tank I noticed that both my octo & regulator had barely audible leaks. I purged them both & blew through them & they stopped, so on I went to my first dive. At about 4 minutes into my first dive, I noticed that my regulator was flowing a steady stream of small bubbles, so I purged & blew through it a few times, but it continued. I signaled my buddy that I had a reg. problem & that we needed to head up. We were only at about 15 feet so no big deal, and I went to show her my reg with the slow leak & when I took it out of my mouth it went into full free flow. So I kicked for the surface, saying aaaaahhhhhh as I was trained, my buddy following behind. Well, at the surface, even out of the water, I could not get the flow to stop. My buddy turned off my tank to stop it. This setup is a brand new Zeagle Envoy reg., octo & first stage. They only have about 6 dives on them... They have never seen salt water, only Dutch Springs... I have them soaking now in warm soapy water, thinking there may be some kind of residue build up inside... But I rinsed them after every dive, & both reg & octo leaking? Any ideas? I am going to try them again next weekend & bring a back-up set with me so it doesn't blow my whole day, but I plan to send them back to ST for service & to have them checked out for sure...

Thanks in advance for any help!

Boomer

p.s. I am a noob, this was my 10th dive. Please be gentle... My dive buddy was another member of this board with over 70 dives & she was stumped as well... Thanks!

[ScubaToys Larry]

Well, since they got through the IP test at our shop - and the last 6 dives with no problems... it seems like maybe there was a slight dent in the HP seat. That could cause a slight HP creep and give you the small free flow. The run away free flow sounds like it was caused by the verturi effect of the regs. If you hit the purge, or start a big free flow by taking it out of your mouth with the mouth piece up - a reg will free flow - in a big way. That is how they are designed. If you put your thumb over the hole, turn it down in the water - or switch the dive/pre-dive switch it should stop right away.

So really the slight HP creep seems to be not right - but that is a very easy thing for us to test and correct. We'll test it first so we can tell you exactly what is going on - then we'll do a rebuild and replace the seats, cycle it on our cycling machine - check again, then send it back.

Sorry this happened to you - and if you ever run into a free flow like that again, you'll probably find, if you put the reg back in your mouth, it will stop as that generates the back pressure to stop the venturi effect.

But it was great hearing that you fell back on training and took steps to make a safe ascent and all is good!

Just include a note with the box - maybe even print out this post and drop it in so we know exactly what happened and what we need to check.

[BoomerNJ]

Hey Larry, thanks for the post... I'm not sure which way I had it when I went to show my buddy. What was funny, was that I have had the venturi effect happen before & I just turn it down & it stops, no problem. This time I had to turn the bottle off to stop it, even at the surface. Just so everyone is clear though, I don't think Scuba Toys did ANYTHING wrong in the least. I assumed it was something I did, maybe not cleaning everything properly. I hope it didn't seem like that was what I was saying Larry, if so, I apologize. That was not my intent. You guys have been nothing but great to me!

Thanks again!

Boomer

[comet24]

That sucks. Listen to Larry about the steps to take to try and stop a free flowing reg. You can also turn down. Mouth piece down and put your thumb over the opening in the mouth piece. That way you can breath off you octo while you attempt to solve the problem.

BTW what the water temp. up at Dutch now. I was up there 1 or 2 weekends a month until Sept.

[BoomerNJ]

Hey Comet, thanks!

Surface temp was 57 degrees, the deepest I got today in my 11 minutes of diving , was 34 feet, so I didn't get to the first thermocline (sp?). I just started diving a dry suit, so I was comfortable anyway. It's really not bad right now. Spring is when it's tough, so I'm told, when the surface temps are in the 40's...

[okidiver]

Larry,

I got one question about his regulator set. I noticed he said that its soaking in warm soapy water. Why, would he soak his regulator system in soapy water? My knowledge tells me that's really not a good idea for regulators, since soap can seep through the o-rings causing a "pre-mature" (if you would) flooded regulator. Your opinion.

Originally Posted by ScubaToys Larry

Well, since they got through the IP test at our shop - and the last 6 dives with no problems... it seems like maybe there was a slight dent in the HP seat. That could cause a slight HP creep and give you the small free flow. The run away free flow sounds like it was caused by the verturi effect of the regs. If you hit the purge, or start a big free flow by taking it out of your mouth with the mouth piece up - a reg will free flow - in a big way. That is how they are designed. If you put your thumb over the hole, turn it down in the water - or switch the dive/pre-dive switch it should stop right away.

So really the slight HP creep seems to be not right - but that is a very easy thing for us to test and correct. We'll test it first so we can tell you exactly what is going on - then we'll do a rebuild and replace the seats, cycle it on our cycling machine - check again, then send it back.

Sorry this happened to you - and if you ever run into a free flow like that again, you'll probably find, if you put the reg back in your mouth, it will stop as that generates the back pressure to stop the venturi effect.

But it was great hearing that you fell back on training and took steps to make a safe ascent and all is good!

Just include a note with the box - maybe even print out this post and drop it in so we know exactly what happened and what we need to check.

[ScubaToys Larry]

Hey... sometimes seats or o-rings just go. Let's be honest... an o-ring went out on a space shuttle and killed 7 people - and that o-ring cost a lot more than any of them in a reg!

So stuff happens, but the good news is you handled it, and now we'll handle it.

As far as soaking in soapy water... I wouldn't dunk them in a bottle of ajax, and normally just plain water is fine - but it really shouldn't hurt anything, and when stuff gets real dirty after a while, I'll dunk mine in the same tank that I've used to clean a wetsuit with a little soap in there. Really shouldn't hurt anything.

[Bryanmc]

Why did you go into a CESA when your reg freeflowed as opposed to a freeflow ascent (part of the mouthpiece out of your mouth) ?

[BoomerNJ]

Originally Posted by Bryanmc

Why did you go into a CESA when your reg freeflowed as opposed to a freeflow ascent (part of the mouthpiece out of your mouth) ?

Well, I was only at 15 feet. So it wasn't really a CESA in my uninformed & newbie opinion. It was the same as coming up from a safety stop really, plus i was never good at that freeflow ascent, no matter how much I practiced it. The other part of it was really just a little panic. I figured I was so close to the surface, and had already signaled my buddy I had a problem & we needed to go to the surface, so I just surfaced. I also didn't use my octo either, which would have been the smart thing to do. As I mentioned, this was my 10th dive. I am still getting used to the whole diving thing, let alone a free flowing regulator.

[Zenagirl]

Sounds like you handled things very well, congrats!!

Now that you know how important rescue skills are, don't hesitate to put a Rescue class on your list of "must dos". It's one of the best classes you'll ever take!