Bush to lift offshore drilling ban

[Rockhound76]

This thread cracks me up. I've been involved on both sides of the "issue", first as a student/diver at a marine lab 30 years ago, majoring in Marine Science and hoping for a career as a Marine Biologist or Environmental Scientist and now, as a geologist/geophysicist in offshore (Gulf of Mexico) petroleum exploration.

I can appreciate the attempts by some here to explain, in rational scientific terms, why offshore drilling and domestic production can be done safely, attempts to point out the significant reductions environmental risks of drilling when compared to the risks of ever-increasing import volumes when delivered by tanker. And never mind the attempts to explain the geopolitical costs of being at the mercy of unstable and unfriendly nations.

I can certainly appreciate the economic reasoning that suggests future planning, which involves the opening of potentially productive areas to careful exploration might reduce (but not eliminate) future price and production shocks, particulalry when compared to knee-jerk and ultimately more costly "forcing" actions.

I can appreciate the frustration at reading so many ill-informed opinions based on political snippets and media mythology.

But, I have to disagree with intent of these posters to ostensibly "rationalize the irrational mind".

You can explain some things to some people, but you can never understand it for them.

I am approaching retirement age. I love what I do for a living. It is interesting and exciting work. I has had it's ups and downs (mostly downs. anybody remember $9/bbl. and 400,000 American oil field workers out of work? Congress passed laws to protect Autoworkers during that time. Oil and Gas workers were excluded.

Yes, I love what I do. I am, however, tired of the business. So, go plug in your electric car, just don't forget to dispose of those batteries properly and oh, make sure you plug into a solar only grid (technically speaking, it would require several square miles of solar panels, which have their own environmental impacts, to equal the daily energy output of a single mid-market Exxon station) or to a wind grid (don't kill the birdies and I'm sure you'll get used to the noise and the fact they constantly break down). Or just pump your car up with ethanol, never mind the PETROLEUM fertilizer fed dead zone in the Central Gulf of Mexico or the algal blooms all along the Mississippi or the fact that it take more btu of petroleum to produce this product than you get out of it.

What folks in Florida and California and Massachuetts need to admit that the aren't exposed to any great environmental risks, they just don't want to see rigs on their horizon or oil field trash in their towns. No amount of logic in the world would change their minds.

To be honest, I don't really care what they think.

[Sansho]

What folks in Florida and California and Massachuetts need to admit that the aren't exposed to any great environmental risks, they just don't want to see rigs on their horizon or oil field trash in their towns.

Also known in the planning and zoning world as 'NIMBY', not in my back yard.

[Foo2]

Originally Posted by moosicman

I'm tired of seeing SUV driving soccer moms!

<-------- SUV driving soccer mom

Find me a vehicle that will hold 3 or more children in car seats, a double stroller, all the rest of the crap that goes along with them, and that will carry scuba gear for 2 people and camping gear for a reasonable price and I will happily turn in my keys. Until then...I'm cruising day to day in my gasoline loving Suburban.

[aggie99]

Originally Posted by Foo2

<-------- SUV driving soccer mom

Find me a vehicle that will hold 3 or more children in car seats, a double stroller, all the rest of the crap that goes along with them, and that will carry scuba gear for 2 people and camping gear for a reasonable price and I will happily turn in my keys. Until then...I'm cruising day to day in my gasoline loving Suburban.

Zoom! Zoom!

MazdaUSA - Wireless Tour

Holds 6 Passengers
Up to 28mpg
44 cubic feet of storage
Duel sliding doors
Starts at $18,645

[Foo2]

Originally Posted by aggie99

Zoom! Zoom!

MazdaUSA - Wireless Tour

Holds 6 Passengers
Up to 28mpg
44 cubic feet of storage
Duel sliding doors
Starts at $18,645

I appreciate the effort....but if you are going to have 3 in car seats, that means that you have to use the 3'rd row. If I'm using the 3'rd row, that means that I have next to no storage in the back...I need the double stroller & it isn't gonna fit. But if you only have 2 kids and only need the 3'rd row on occasion, it's a great fit!

P.S. It's also out of my price range. It says that it starts at $18,645

[ReefHound]

Originally Posted by aggie99

Zoom! Zoom!

MazdaUSA - Wireless Tour

Holds 6 Passengers
Up to 28mpg
44 cubic feet of storage
Duel sliding doors
Starts at $18,645

Nice but was it available when Foo2 needed to buy a vehicle? And because it "looks like a van" that will likely be targeted by the SUV-hating crowd as well. Too often people react to the appearance without even knowing what's under the hood or the actual fuel economy. Besides, 28mpg is nothing to get worked up over.

[aggie99]

Originally Posted by Foo2

I appreciate the effort....but if you are going to have 3 in car seats, that means that you have to use the 3'rd row. If I'm using the 3'rd row, that means that I have next to no storage in the back...I need the double stroller & it isn't gonna fit. But if you only have 2 kids and only need the 3'rd row on occasion, it's a great fit!

Each back seat folds independently and there is still storage behind the seats and in a flip up compartment below. My sister has three and has a samll suv with less storage space than this, she just opens the back door, the oldest jumps in and climbs into his seat, with one seat folded she loads everything up and they are gone. Now if you make the argument that you are keeping it because sale prices for urban tanks right now are pathetic I will agree, but every other continent makes it without these monster trucks just fine, we can too.

[aggie99]

Originally Posted by ReefHound

Nice but was it available when Foo2 needed to buy a vehicle? And because it "looks like a van" that will likely be targeted by the SUV-hating crowd as well. Too often people react to the appearance without even knowing what's under the hood or the actual fuel economy. Besides, 28mpg is nothing to get worked up over.

In comparison to the Suburban getting 17mpg it is, it is all relative. And when you dispurse that mpg over the amount of occupants it looks even better. I am not blamming her for purchasing the vehicle, she just asked for a vehicle that met specific criteria and I found it. 5 years ago there were very few options for vehicles that got good mpg, of course the manufacturers only cater to the what the customer wants and we wanted large SUV's.

[JCAT]

A small point to consider.....

How is MPG determined and does the testing protocols reflect the world we live in?

[aggie99]

Originally Posted by JCAT

A small point to consider.....

How is MPG determined and does the testing protocols reflect the world we live in?

There is a lot of discssion on the MPG vs. GPM concept. Here is a good article on the topic:

MPG vs. GPM | welcome2green.com