Situation Analysis

[frogman159]

Just want to get some input on a situation I was recently in, should I have done anything differently.

Background: 5 NAUI certifcation dives- 2 refresher dives in a quarry max depth 25ft. So total 7 dives (well 6 if you don't count that stupid NAUI snorkel dive) I'm on a resort vacation with all inclusive 2 dives per day, the vacation was booked partially to "cut my teeth" diving.

First day, first "real" dive- Me, wife(buddy) same experience, 3 other divers and a DM. Dive plan 65ft for 30 minutes, We stay as a group- Decend, tour, 3 minute safety stop at 15ft ascend as a group.

DM tells me to use 12lbs- At home I use 20lbs with a 14/7suit

Everything goes well, I'm watching my air- Seems to be going quick.

Check my air at 25 minutes, I'm at 800psi- I think, great I'm an air pig, and everyone has to surface cause of me

I get the attention of the DM and my buddy, point to my SPG and hold up 8 fingers- I get and "ok" and he continues the tour. I think to myself, thats odd, but whatever still got some air.

Check my air again after a few minutes, I'm at six, I signal the DM and my buddy, I get an OK from the DM and he continues the tour.

I'm now a little less than 500psi- I signal my buddy- she signals me to calm down and the DM knows the situtation so relax. I now show the DM my SPG, maybe he doesn't understand- I get another "OK"
I'm now thinking about leaving the group and surfacing alone since nobody cares I'm low on air- I decide he's the pro I'll stick with the group.

After a couple minutes, I hold up 4 fingers, and flash my buddy- I'm starting to think this is really not the way this should be playing out. I make the decision if I get to 100 PSI, I'm giving the OOA signal and getting on someone's Octo ahead of time to avoid an emergency OOA situation.

Finally he begins to slowly ascend- I reach the saftey stop at about 300psi. The safety stop seems to take an eternity- We ascend the remaining 15' I inflate my BC and swim on my back without using my reg to the boat. On the boat I've got 50-75psi.

This was a little too close for my comfort- Later in the week I dropped my weight to 6lbs and prolly could have went to 4lbs-

Towards the end of our stay- and making 9 additional dives- 1 at night on the last day, I was finishing 60 to 70ft dives for 30-35 minutes with 8-900 psi. Dropping all that weight and getting better boyancy control help dramatically with the air consumption.

Just would like to open it up to the board- Should I/would you have done anything differently?

[frogman159]

Just to add:
My buddy had 1300 psi on the boat
Another diver 1700psi on the boat

[obrules15]

Originally Posted by frogman159

Just want to get some input on a situation I was recently in, should I have done anything differently.

Background: 5 NAUI certifcation dives- 2 refresher dives in a quarry max depth 25ft. So total 7 dives (well 6 if you don't count that stupid NAUI snorkel dive) I'm on a resort vacation with all inclusive 2 dives per day, the vacation was booked partially to "cut my teeth" diving.

First day, first "real" dive- Me, wife(buddy) same experience, 3 other divers and a DM. Dive plan 65ft for 30 minutes, We stay as a group- Decend, tour, 3 minute safety stop at 15ft ascend as a group.

DM tells me to use 12lbs- At home I use 20lbs with a 14/7suit

Everything goes well, I'm watching my air- Seems to be going quick.

Check my air at 25 minutes, I'm at 800psi- I think, great I'm an air pig, and everyone has to surface cause of me

I get the attention of the DM and my buddy, point to my SPG and hold up 8 fingers- I get and "ok" and he continues the tour. I think to myself, thats odd, but whatever still got some air.

Check my air again after a few minutes, I'm at six, I signal the DM and my buddy, I get an OK from the DM and he continues the tour.

I'm now a little less than 500psi- I signal my buddy- she signals me to calm down and the DM knows the situtation so relax. I now show the DM my SPG, maybe he doesn't understand- I get another "OK"
I'm now thinking about leaving the group and surfacing alone since nobody cares I'm low on air- I decide he's the pro I'll stick with the group.

After a couple minutes, I hold up 4 fingers, and flash my buddy- I'm starting to think this is really not the way this should be playing out. I make the decision if I get to 100 PSI, I'm giving the OOA signal and getting on someone's Octo ahead of time to avoid an emergency OOA situation.

Finally he begins to slowly ascend- I reach the saftey stop at about 300psi. The safety stop seems to take an eternity- We ascend the remaining 15' I inflate my BC and swim on my back without using my reg to the boat. On the boat I've got 50-75psi.

This was a little too close for my comfort- Later in the week I dropped my weight to 6lbs and prolly could have went to 4lbs-

Towards the end of our stay- and making 9 additional dives- 1 at night on the last day, I was finishing 60 to 70ft dives for 30-35 minutes with 8-900 psi. Dropping all that weight and getting better boyancy control help dramatically with the air consumption.

Just would like to open it up to the board- Should I/would you have done anything differently?

There are of course many, many issues here, I will just comment on two things in particular as I have spent a small amount of time as a carribean dive master. The first I would address is the weight. DM's are just guessing on the amount of weight to give you, and when they take you out they only take maybe an additional 2-4lbs of weight so they really cannot afford for you to be low so they tend to send you down heavier than you need to be. You are responsible for figuring out your final weight and it depends on many, many factors. My first two days of diving are routinely a little challenging while I figure out my weighting for the region.

As for the OOA situation, you should have had a dive briefing that explained your OOA procedures. What has been routine in my experience is that when you reach 700 psi you signal the divemaster and you and your buddy ascend together to the safety stop. I, of course, am not sure but it sounded to me like your DM was expecting you to ascend with your buddy. If that was the case though I really would have expected him to tell you to do so. Was he aware of how few dives you had? To me this sounds like there was inadequate information exchange at minimum vs. complete incompetence at the other end of the spectrum.

[frogman159]

Thanks for the input- The weighting I can deal with and with these dives and more additional experience I'll have a better feel for the weighting- its the close OOA that was troublesome.

If I did find myself low on air- would it be inappropraite to take an Octo and ascend? It seems wrong to me if it obvisouly looks like I'm running out/low on air- My buddy and I can do a nice controled Octo exchange and do an ascent without panic- Seems better than beathing my tank to zero- now the situation would have become much more critical/worse

I can add that He was not expecting me to ascend alone with my buddy- We were told to remain together through ascent and no matter what we stay as a group. In fact latter on that day with a different DM- I fulfilled my safety stop and proceed a slow ascent to the surface with my buddy. On the boat the divemaster aked me why did I ascend? I told him I completed my safety stop (counted down via computer) and was only 15ft from the surface so we ascended- He told me never to do that again and we are to stay with the group.

The DM knew our experieince level- before the dive I approached him and informed him we never did a free ascent during training (always a line present) and were a bit anxious so if he could stay close by i'd appreciate it.

[PlatypusMan]

Originally Posted by obrules15

As for the OOA situation, you should have had a dive briefing that explained your OOA procedures. What has been routine in my experience is that when you reach 700 psi you signal the divemaster and you and your buddy ascend together to the safety stop. I, of course, am not sure but it sounded to me like your DM was expecting you to ascend with your buddy. If that was the case though I really would have expected him to tell you to do so. Was he aware of how few dives you had? To me this sounds like there was inadequate information exchange at minimum vs. complete incompetence at the other end of the spectrum.

I would go along with this observation: I have yet to be in a dive briefing where the OOA situation was not covered. Someone, somewhere wasn't paying adequate attention it appears.

PPM

[Vercingetorix]

Quite the quandary there.

On one hand, each of us is responsible for our own safety. Thus, when short on air, it is our responsibility to ensure that we reach the surface with adequate air...500 pounds minimum.

On the other hand, if you ascend and the DM doesn't know it, he now thinks he has a Lost Diver Rescue scenario to run. This causes much consternation. Upon surfacing, he would be both relieved and angered to find you on the surface. Regarding his comment that you are to stay with the group regardless of your air circumstances, I refer you back to the above paragraph.

Given the choice, (and Platy help or correct me here), self-preservation and self-rescue take precedence over DM's instruction to stay with the group.

My choice: ascend and deal with the relieved/angry DM top-side, even if that would end diving for the day.

[frogman159]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

Quite the quandary there.
On the other hand, if you ascend and the DM doesn't know it, he now thinks he has a Lost Diver Rescue scenario to run. This causes much consternation. Upon surfacing, he would be both relieved and angered to find you on the surface. Regarding his comment that you are to stay with the group regardless of your air circumstances, I refer you back to the above paragraph.

I agree- I would have signaled the DM I was going up he prolly still would have been pissed. The issue was- my buddy- who is a very passive person did not want to "rock the boat" when I made her aware of the situation. At one point I did tell her up, thats when she signaled me to calmn down and signaled Divemaster knows- As I said above I considered at one point saying f' those guys and ascending solo- At that point I was considering what was worse- leaving my buddy (a breaking a cardinal rule) or doing a controled OOA ascent.

Given the choice, (and Platy help or correct me here), self-preservation and self-rescue take precedence over DM's instruction to stay with the group.

Thats sure sounds like common sense to me- talked about it with my buddy and would ascend together and immediately if that ever happended again

My choice: ascend and deal with the relieved/angry DM top-side, even if that would end diving for the day.

Thanks for the response

[oddbod]

Trust the DM, I know this is sometimes hard to do, but they should know where they are in a dive and how long it will take to surface at the right spot at any given point. As long as he knew how much air you had left then he should be able to get you back to the boat and don't forget he would have had ample air left if needed to buddy breath with you.

[frogman159]

Originally Posted by oddbod

Trust the DM, I know this is sometimes hard to do, but they should know where they are in a dive and how long it will take to surface at the right spot at any given point. As long as he knew how much air you had left then he should be able to get you back to the boat and don't forget he would have had ample air left if needed to buddy breath with you.

Interesting- Thats exactly the decision I made underwater and made it out ok.....Still being quite inexperienced, I'm just not sure it was the best one, thats why I created this post.

[cummings66]

Trust the DM, what are you smoking there? He had 50 psi left, many regulators fail to function at that point. How do you know the DM has the air supply to handle somebody who's using air at an alarming rate? What if the DM was sharing air and some new diver started dropping down for what reason, who's he going to save now?

Your life is in your hands, never trust anybody with it that you don't personally know. That DM IMO goofed up big time, in fact so much so I'd have made a formal complaint against him. Assuming I was told to never surface without the group. That procedure he briefed could have caused multiple divers to go OOA.

That DM should be fired. At any rate, you should never ever run out of air in the water. When you're low you surface, and better yet never run low because you should start surfacing with plenty of air in the first place. I would have started for the surface with or without his approval were I in your shoes. The DM could take it up with me on the surface.