Buddy Liability in the Case of an Accident: Calling all Diving Lawyers

[RoadRacer1978]

No, I don't think it threw things off course. I believe that it does help put some of your liability into perspective. I does demonstrate that to be held liable in this instance their has to be more than an "accident". It takes further circumstances. So the McD's thing does actually show that. Most people think of this a purely being an accident and that we can all be sued and lose a case that seems so inappropriate, but if you know the facts about the case it shows that it takes much more than just the "accident".

[Big Mike]

Well, I'm going to add a few cents worth regarding general litigation. I work with attorneys in trial. I have seen some "iffy" cases placed before juries with some astonishing verdicts. The comment earlier of you can be sued for anything at any time is extremely correct. The best you can hope for is to try to convince the buddy it is not a good idea, make an attempt to stop him, but not place yourself in immediate danger.

There was an old joke I heard from an attorney friend of mine. It goes....
"We are placing the facts before people who are not smart enough to get out of jury duty" Scary isn't it?

BTW...There are some very responsible ones out there, they're not all ambulance chasers

[RoadRacer1978]

You can be sued at anytime for anything, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do you best to reduce your liability and for heavens sake, do worry about your liability. If we went around worrying about the liability we face everyday in everything we do, we'd all be way too stressed.

[Mtrewyn]

Originally Posted by navyhmc

Playing the devil's advocate here.

Duty to act: As a dive buddy do you have a legal duty to act? Now as a paramedic on an emergency call, I do have a legal duty to act. As a dive buddy, do you? I won't argue a moral and ethical duty to act, but is it a legal duty to act?

Solve your own nightmare: Buddy wants to enter the wreck? Get in front of him and do the "No F'in Way" sign. If he still enters, you made the attempt to stop him and he didn't listen. I will way without the correct training, I ain't going after him. I will try my best to keep him in sight and maybe shine my light in the entrance, but not going to put myself in unneccessary danger due to his stupid act.

navyhmc has the right thought's here, this parallels the medical argument with the "star of life" that paramedics and emt's put on their cars, if they pass a wreck off duty and someone sees the star, can they be sued for negligence? I have herd that we can be. This is where the Good Samaritan laws come into play I think, There has to be a point where someone goes hold on that is ridiculous that he is getting sued for that. that being said there is a web site I believe it is called the "Stella" awards, where they summaries the stupidest cases that have been won, things like wrecking a Winnebago by getting up while driving down the highway to make a pot of coffee. I think we as a country are just way too quick to try and litigate something.

[divingchef]

This is a really classical argument in the philosophy of ethics.....who is ultimately responsible and where does the line get drawn to recourse....you can follow the chain of actions from end point (read: accident or affect) to the origin or cause.....but where to you stop with the cause. Can you sue the gun maker in a murder case? (if they didn´t make the gun, maybe the murder wouldn´t happen) Can you sue the purveyor of fine firearms who sold the gun? ....the shipping company who delivered the gun to the purveyor? ....the company who processed the steel? ....the company who mined the ore?

In the end it is also a metaphysical question as to whether or not we have freedom of choice.....(wow, get your boots, the doo-doo is getting deep) I personally operate my life on the premise that we all have the ability to proactively choose in a completely free universum....however, in my "dream" what is unknown and not clearly described by the author (me) is whether or the diver being sued could be held accountable for some sort of negliciant (sp?) behavior...(sorry Im way out on a tangent here)

anyway.....if the diver in the story had insisted he didn´t want to dive with the "questionable" buddy, none of this would have happened to our diver in question.....may have happened to someone else in the group however....we have all had buddies we didn´t agree with....we have all seen this type of diver on the boats and on the beach....in the end it more important to show resolve in your beliefs and opinions BEFORE you enter into a questionable situation...

[BuzzF117]

My safety comes first plane and simple. If my buddy does something to put me into danger then who is at fault. I was taught to dive within my training and skills and that is what I always plan on doing. Only person I would risk it for would be my wife or child who by no fault of their own got into trouble i.e. equipment malfunction or entanglement.

Buzz out

[divingchef]

copy that Buzz, nice angle....

[BuzzF117]

If I am not mistaken in the state of Indiana you CANNOT be sued if you attempt to help and you cause somebody harm i.e. you pull them from buring car and cause a neck injury because you lacked equipment to stabelize them before moving. So then if you do make an attempt to save somebody using the skills and knowledge that you do have without putting yourself into grave danger wouldn't have fall under the same type of jurisdiction because you made attempt but more harm was caused because of your lack of proper training.

[RoadRacer1978]

I think that is the good samatrain laws that Mterwyn was referring to. You are protected if you try to help and cause harm. This does not apply as much if you have advanced type training. So as a rescue diver you may have more of a responsibility and more liability if your actions cause more harm. Not for sure, just bringing up some more ideas for discussion.

[ReefHound]

OK, just my opinion, but I think people worry way too much about some astronomical risk of being sued for nothing. Yes, anybody can be sued for anything but that doesn't mean they will prevail. The majority of frivolous suits get tossed at a pre-trial hearing.

The power of the mass media brings every fluke event to our mainstream conscience. My local newsrag has a section called Bizaare News that is filled everyday with stories that make you shake your head. In a country of 300 million people you can find examples of anything. That doesn't mean it is reasonably likely to happen to you. You can't live your life stressed over miniscule risks while ignoring much greater ones.

In the example, the buddy has no contract with the victim, no business transaction, and made no offers or assurances. You might want to do the pre-dive buddy check since you've been trained that it is necessary. Other than that, no one can prove you saw anything unusual or safe, or did not act to the best of your abilities.

Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. File a massive countersuit for mental anguish, that the victim's gross negligence and wantom disregard for safe diving principles has psychologically scarred you for life. It's easy to throw punches, when the other party faces getting punched back they may decide a truce is in order.