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Thread: Video: boat runs over divers and dive flags.

  1. #61
    Shark snagel's Avatar
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    Don't want to get into this "cat fight", just wanted to make a small comment....

    I looked at the video again, and there was some discussion in a previous comment that the boat operator might have cut his engines and was adrift. After looking at the video again, it appears to me that once he passed under the bridge he turned to the port side. This makes makes me believe he was still under power. However, he could have started the engines up again or the turn was the result of a current.

    Side-bar out, continue with your debate.

    Snagel

  2. #62
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    i know someone who won't get 'patched' if & when they come to BHB..... know what? notice to all divers of that same mindset, and others who think they have found better, do us all a favor & stay where you are
    if it has tires or testicles, eventually it is going to give you trouble

  3. #63
    Shark snagel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scubagirlj View Post
    i know someone who won't get 'patched' if & when they come to BHB..... know what? notice to all divers of that same mindset, and others who think they have found better, do us all a favor & stay where you are

    Huh??? Did I miss something?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagel View Post
    Huh??? Did I miss something?
    ...jeez dude, keep up with the thread..its not you
    if it has tires or testicles, eventually it is going to give you trouble

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by scuba_jenny View Post
    Excuse me, bud. But I don't appreciate your arrogance. We can have a discussion, but when it comes to demeaning comments (Get educated jenny) it becomes uncivilized.
    What you have just posted reiterates that boaters think they have the right of way in all ways. And it continues to perpetuate the notion that boaters are arrogant and own the water. Just because a channel is the preferred channel as you call it, does not give a boater the right to use another channel when divers are in the water. Especially when he was warned. Had he waited a half hour, or hour, or gone when it was not high tide this would not be an issue. Anybody who boats near BHB knows there are divers in the water at high tide. And because it being high tide negates the whole issue of using a side channel.

    I am boat a boater and a diver. I have mutual respect for both sides. It is obvious when reading here that you are biased, along with many others on this site. Go to the boat side, and you get the complete opposite...

    I am neutral - I understand the laws, I have to - its part of my (now old) job...

    Boaters do have the right of way, in their marked channel, which I believe that boater was in, being as how the center "channel" was not marked with red or green markers.

    A boater can use any marked channel, any time he/she wants. If there is an obstruction, then it is in the boaters best interest to avoid it if possible. You say the sailboater was warned, but I see no evidence of that in the video and as far as I am concerned, it is inadmissable, because it just hearsay... Even if he was warned, when? If he had committed to the channel, there is not much he could have done - a sailboat like that at low speed handles terribly and can easily be blown around by the wind - perhaps by the time he was warned (if indeed he was), it was too late to do anything other than move as slowly as possible through the area...

    Boaters can come from all over the world - who is to say this one is from the area? Even if he is, perhaps he just doesn't know. You know because you are a diver... many non-diving boaters don't have a clue where good diving or dive spots are to start. Its not like they are marked on a navigational chart, and if all we have to go by is a tiny dive flag just inches above the water, well, thats a tough one...

    It may sound like I am sticking up for the boater - in fact, I am. But only because here, the only boating laws anyone seems to know are that boats are supposed to stay away from dive flags. In general, thats true, but it is not the only law that has an affect on the boat/diver relationship...

    If you were a boater, would you want to wait an hour plus to go from place to place? Would you wait an hour for a couple kids that are playing in the street to move out of the way before you passed, or would you ease your way through them? Who gives the divers the right to be there? From Florida laws, they are potentially in the wrong place - just because it is a popular dive spot doesn't mean its a safe one...

    I just ask you to take a step back, put yourself on the boat and look at it objectively...
    -cody / on vacation from vacation...
    PADI MSDT Instructor, US Coast Guard Captain - Master Near Coastal

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagel View Post
    Don't want to get into this "cat fight", just wanted to make a small comment....

    I looked at the video again, and there was some discussion in a previous comment that the boat operator might have cut his engines and was adrift. After looking at the video again, it appears to me that once he passed under the bridge he turned to the port side. This makes makes me believe he was still under power. However, he could have started the engines up again or the turn was the result of a current.

    Side-bar out, continue with your debate.

    Snagel

    If it was me in that position, I would have never cut the engines, however I would have put the transmission in neutral, allowing me to engage the wheel when needed, but not have to worry if the engine will restart right when I need it...
    -cody / on vacation from vacation...
    PADI MSDT Instructor, US Coast Guard Captain - Master Near Coastal

  7. #67
    Shark snagel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scubagirlj View Post
    ...jeez dude, keep up with the thread..its not you

    I am, I just didn't understand what the comment was about...it didn't make any sense to me. Still doesn't!

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitsuguy View Post
    I am boat a boater and a diver. I have mutual respect for both sides. It is obvious when reading here that you are biased, along with many others on this site. Go to the boat side, and you get the complete opposite...
    well, duh! It's a diving board. Of course I'm biased, I'm a diver.

    Quote Originally Posted by mitsuguy View Post
    I am neutral - I understand the laws, I have to - its part of my (now old) job...
    No you're not. You continually stick up for the boater

    Quote Originally Posted by mitsuguy View Post
    Boaters do have the right of way, in their marked channel, which I believe that boater was in, being as how the center "channel" was not marked with red or green markers.

    A boater can use any marked channel, any time he/she wants. If there is an obstruction, then it is in the boaters best interest to avoid it if possible. You say the sailboater was warned, but I see no evidence of that in the video and as far as I am concerned, it is inadmissable, because it just hearsay... Even if he was warned, when? If he had committed to the channel, there is not much he could have done - a sailboat like that at low speed handles terribly and can easily be blown around by the wind - perhaps by the time he was warned (if indeed he was), it was too late to do anything other than move as slowly as possible through the area...
    So, you're still sticking up for the boater, even when you admit that information is lacking in the video to support or deny your statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by mitsuguy View Post

    Boaters can come from all over the world - who is to say this one is from the area? Even if he is, perhaps he just doesn't know. You know because you are a diver... many non-diving boaters don't have a clue where good diving or dive spots are to start. Its not like they are marked on a navigational chart, and if all we have to go by is a tiny dive flag just inches above the water, well, thats a tough one...

    It may sound like I am sticking up for the boater - in fact, I am. But only because here, the only boating laws anyone seems to know are that boats are supposed to stay away from dive flags. In general, thats true, but it is not the only law that has an affect on the boat/diver relationship...
    yes, you keep sticking up for the boater. Why? You're a diver. Put yourself in the divers position once in a while, you do claim you are a diver, yet you keep defending the boater. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by mitsuguy View Post
    If you were a boater, would you want to wait an hour plus to go from place to place? Would you wait an hour for a couple kids that are playing in the street to move out of the way before you passed, or would you ease your way through them? Who gives the divers the right to be there? From Florida laws, they are potentially in the wrong place - just because it is a popular dive spot doesn't mean its a safe one...

    I just ask you to take a step back, put yourself on the boat and look at it objectively...
    Maybe if I was a boater, I would learn that at high tide there are divers in the water and would act accordingly, not recklessly go where human life may be harmed.
    And further more.. this (your) boater type attitude is too common. If we all have to share the water, then just because you are bigger doesn't mean you make the rules (which is an unwritten rule of boating. This much I know) Now are we supposed to stay out of the ocean because boaters are out and they have the right of way in the open water too? What about the diver? Too bad. So sad? you want to stick up for this boater too? Let's see, they were kayak diving, with a flag, doing everything right..
    Fort Lauderdale police search for boater who struck scuba diver
    Scuba diver hit: Fort Lauderdale police search for boater who struck scuba diver - Sun Sentinel

  9. #69
    Shark Zeagle Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitsuguy View Post
    I am boat a boater and a diver. I have mutual respect for both sides. It is obvious when reading here that you are biased, along with many others on this site. Go to the boat side, and you get the complete opposite...

    I am neutral - I understand the laws, I have to - its part of my (now old) job.

    Boaters do have the right of way, in their marked channel, which I believe that boater was in, being as how the center "channel" was not marked with red or green markers.

    A boater can use any marked channel, any time he/she wants. If there is an obstruction, then it is in the boaters best interest to avoid it if possible. You say the sailboater was warned, but I see no evidence of that in the video and as far as I am concerned, it is inadmissable, because it just hearsay... Even if he was warned, when? If he had committed to the channel, there is not much he could have done - a sailboat like that at low speed handles terribly and can easily be blown around by the wind - perhaps by the time he was warned (if indeed he was), it was too late to do anything other than move as slowly as possible through the area...

    Boaters can come from all over the world - who is to say this one is from the area? Even if he is, perhaps he just doesn't know. You know because you are a diver... many non-diving boaters don't have a clue where good diving or dive spots are to start. Its not like they are marked on a navigational chart, and if all we have to go by is a tiny dive flag just inches above the water, well, thats a tough one...

    It may sound like I am sticking up for the boater - in fact, I am. But only because here, the only boating laws anyone seems to know are that boats are supposed to stay away from dive flags. In general, thats true, but it is not the only law that has an affect on the boat/diver relationship...

    If you were a boater, would you want to wait an hour plus to go from place to place? Would you wait an hour for a couple kids that are playing in the street to move out of the way before you passed, or would you ease your way through them? Who gives the divers the right to be there? From Florida laws, they are potentially in the wrong place - just because it is a popular dive spot doesn't mean its a safe one...

    I just ask you to take a step back, put yourself on the boat and look at it objectively...

    You are about as neutral as Rush Limbaugh and it is obvious you do not know the law. Your contradictions and assertions are ridiculous.

    In one sentence you say the channel was not marked and in the next you say it was marked.

    It is obvious you did not watch the video of the dive boat screaming and yelling at the sailboat to warn him. Or did you watch it and choose not to consider it?

    You do not understand the term hearsay and I do not have the time, nor the inclination to educate you. I suggest you look it up. A video is not hearsay and it is definitely admissible evidence.

    Because a boater comes from another part of the world and there for could not be at fault is further proof you do not understand the law. Not knowing US boating laws does not let a foreign boater violate them. Ignorance is no excuse.

    Your knowledge of basic boating rules is suspect. You are incorrect when you say boats have the right of way. Boats do not have the right way over divers. Vessel operators must make a reasonable effort to maintain a distance of at least 300 feet from divers-down flags on open waters and at least 100 feet from flags on rivers, inlets or navigation channels. Vessels approaching divers-down flags closer than 300 feet in open water and 100 feet in rivers, inlets and navigation channels must slow to idle speed. Ipso facto, divers have the right of way.

    You asked several questions:

    1. If you were a boater, would you want to wait an hour plus to go from place to place?
    Would I want to? No. Would I? Yes, if it was the safest course of action. Because you are impatient does not give you the right to endanger the life of a child.

    2. Would you wait an hour for a couple kids that are playing in the street to move out of the way before you passed, or would you ease your way through them?
    If my choice is running over a couple of kids then yes I would wait or I may elect to back up and take a different route. If those children were your's would you still feel the same way?
    .

    3. Who gives the divers the right to be there?
    The law of the United States gives the divers the right to be there. How dare you intimate that the divers did not have the right to be there.


    You say "I just ask you to take a step back, put yourself on the boat and look at it objectively".

    Okay, I will. I would let my $750,000 boat hit the bridge before I would take a chance on taking a human life. Is that objective enough for you?

    Now, I ask you to step back and put away your biased boater mentality and think about what that boat Captain actually did. He plowed through a bunch of divers with a dive flag, in a legal dive spot. Intentional or not, that is what he did. Whether, he saw the dive flag or not does not relive him of responsibility. Much like a driver hitting someone in a designated cross walk. He may have not seen the pedestrian; but, never the less he hit him.
    --Zeagle Eagle

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeagle Eagle View Post
    You are about as neutral as Rush Limbaugh and it is obvious you do not know the law. Your contradictions and assertions are ridiculous.

    In one sentence you say the channel was not marked and in the next you say it was marked.

    It is obvious you did not watch the video of the dive boat screaming and yelling at the sailboat to warn him. Or did you watch it and choose not to consider it?

    You do not understand the term hearsay and I do not have the time, nor the inclination to educate you. I suggest you look it up. A video is not hearsay and it is definitely admissible evidence.

    Because a boater comes from another part of the world and there for could not be at fault is further proof you do not understand the law. Not knowing US boating laws does not let a foreign boater violate them. Ignorance is no excuse.

    Your knowledge of basic boating rules is suspect. You are incorrect when you say boats have the right of way. Boats do not have the right way over divers. Vessel operators must make a reasonable effort to maintain a distance of at least 300 feet from divers-down flags on open waters and at least 100 feet from flags on rivers, inlets or navigation channels. Vessels approaching divers-down flags closer than 300 feet in open water and 100 feet in rivers, inlets and navigation channels must slow to idle speed. Ipso facto, divers have the right of way.

    You asked several questions:

    1. If you were a boater, would you want to wait an hour plus to go from place to place?
    Would I want to? No. Would I? Yes, if it was the safest course of action. Because you are impatient does not give you the right to endanger the life of a child.

    2. Would you wait an hour for a couple kids that are playing in the street to move out of the way before you passed, or would you ease your way through them?
    If my choice is running over a couple of kids then yes I would wait or I may elect to back up and take a different route. If those children were your's would you still feel the same way?.

    3. Who gives the divers the right to be there?
    The law of the United States gives the divers the right to be there. How dare you intimate that the divers did not have the right to be there.


    You say "I just ask you to take a step back, put yourself on the boat and look at it objectively".

    Okay, I will. I would let my $750,000 boat hit the bridge before I would take a chance on taking a human life. Is that objective enough for you?

    Now, I ask you to step back and put away your biased boater mentality and think about what that boat Captain actually did. He plowed through a bunch of divers with a dive flag, in a legal dive spot. Intentional or not, that is what he did. Whether, he saw the dive flag or not does not relive him of responsibility. Much like a driver hitting someone in a designated cross walk. He may have not seen the pedestrian; but, never the less he hit him.
    if it has tires or testicles, eventually it is going to give you trouble

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