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Thread: how would you feel about this

  1. #11
    Grouper
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    Nice thing is people can dive with who they want. Seems this Op is concerned with their clients health and the risk exposed to the other people who dive with the op. If you don't appreciate their concerns, you just dive with someone else.

    I have never had an issue with depth constraints with an OW cert. That includes Pacific, Red Sea, Caribbean for the most part. BR

  2. #12
    Shark Zeagle Eagle's Avatar
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    Next thing you know car rental agencies are not going to rent to fat people,(about 77% of the nation), because they may pose a risk to other drivers.
    --Zeagle Eagle

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeagle Eagle View Post
    Next thing you know car rental agencies are not going to rent to fat people,(about 77% of the nation), because they may pose a risk to other drivers.
    I am not sure how much over exertion is done while driving. Really recommend the latest DAN issue, they discuss how cardio levels react due to the perceived weightlessness in the water. I would have thought it would be relaxing for the heart, but apparently it is the exact opposite. It enables the heart to reach and maintain higher levels than the body would normally allow. I don't think driving a rental car is that exciting. BR

  4. #14
    Barracuda Founding Member
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    My thought is that they have an insurance company that has instructed them to be able to prove that they have been proactive in attempts to prevent incidents on their dive trips.

    Think about it; it appears that there's a statistically significant number of divers who enter the water worldwide and simply die there due to some form of cardio event. In a litigious society, their estate and/or heirs may then pursue a claim against the dive operator, who--correctly or incorrectly--may be held liable for not noting the physical limitations of the deceased diver. (How they were to determine these limitations is anybody's guess, I suppose.)

    By sending such a letter out, they are merely doing a CYA should an incident occur--as they can correctly point out that the diver was warned ahead of time to check with a physician for any health concerns prior to diving. It places (at least as far as I can see) the responsibility squarely where it belongs, on the diver's shoulders.
    John Lewis--the PlatypusMan!


  5. #15
    Grouper
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlatypusMan View Post
    My thought is that they have an insurance company that has instructed them to be able to prove that they have been proactive in attempts to prevent incidents on their dive trips.
    This was my first thought as well but it makes me wonder if they're being proactive or reactive. Maybe their insurance company hired a new risk analyst who is being proactive or maybe their rates went up as a result of claims activity.

    I also noticed at the bottom of the letter that they recommend a specific physician. In addition to the CYA exercise maybe there is a business arrangement going on with the Doc?

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by PlatypusMan View Post
    By sending such a letter out, they are merely doing a CYA should an incident occur--as they can correctly point out that the diver was warned ahead of time to check with a physician for any health concerns prior to diving. It places (at least as far as I can see) the responsibility squarely where it belongs, on the diver's shoulders.
    I'd disagree with this. I don't know about other agencies but PADI has people fill out and sign forms for the purpose of CYA. If you fill out the PADI form for say Open Water Diver training and you put a check or 'Y' in the places they want a YES/NO response, the form will be rejected and you'll have to fill out another one. You must put YES or NO. It must be signed and dated. We have the diver fill out the form in front of two staff. This is proper CYA.

    Sending out a letter does not confirm the diver received the letter. If anything it shows that the dive op is aware of the risks but that they cannot confirm they successfully informed the diver of said risks. They would have to have a copy of the letter at the dive site and get each diver to sign something confirming they read the letter and are aware of the risks.

    This is why I said they are opening themselves up to a whole other bunch of trouble by sending this letter out. I think they honestly care about the well being of their customers and just want to be helpful.
    This signature left intentionally blank

  7. #17
    Grouper
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    I can understand how this letter would not sit well with some folks, but I don't think it quite crosses the line since it appears to be advisory, not mandatory. Could be a lot more tactful....the bit about how it is harder to rescue persons with high BMI is out of line in my view...but I don't get the impression that they are trying to drive business away....it's just a CYA in our litigous society.

    If I got this letter, I'd say "..meh..." and go ahead and dive with them. If I didn't like the vibe or attitude for the dive, I'd take my business elsewhere in the future.

  8. #18
    Shark Zeagle Eagle's Avatar
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    There is no excuse for bad manners. The letter was insensitive at best and vaguely threatening.
    --Zeagle Eagle

  9. #19
    Grouper
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeagle Eagle View Post
    There is no excuse for bad manners. The letter was insensitive at best and vaguely threatening.
    It doesn't seem like everyone else is quite as sensitive although I recall as a child being too short to ride a certain roller coaster and I was pretty put-off. I did manage to make the height requirement at a later date. Heck I needed to take physical to get my certification to begin with and each year later for different classes. I am fine with it, nice thing is if you are that upset you can dive with someone else. There has been a big push in the dive community for more awareness, you certainly see it with DAN's focus as of late to let people know it is much higher risk for everyone involved if people are not in good shape. It is not an easy battle and everyone handles it different, but none the less as we learn more about the how the body behaves underwater more focus will be put on it and more liability for those who facilitate it. Clearly this is not a good dive op for you. BR

  10. #20
    Grouper
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    ok just so it's clear I don't have a problem with safety,fitness or motherhood or apple pie. all I was wondering is if you would feel comfortable diving with an op that seems to me to be a little uppity.

    diving for me is all about being safe 1st and then enjoyable I have nothing to prove and I dive within the limits I set for myself. Last time in Curacao I called a dive while waiting for the rest of the group to gather at rendevous point to descend on the reef. why? because I heard my o-ring bubbling. was I disappointed that I couldn't make the dive and had to swim back alone (my buddy joined another group) yep.that's the breaks.

    so with age come some negatives but also the wisdom of when to say when. I have no problem sitting on the boat if a dive looks to tough for me but I will make that decision and take the consequences.

    truth is I just had a pretty intense physical within the last week for life insurance purposes. I'm a grownup and I really do not need others to make my decisions for me. While I appreciate the thought I do not appreciate the tone of the letter.

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